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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:05 PM
Original message
I'm afraid, please talk me out of it
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 08:08 PM by louis c
You see, I'm a Democrat. A real union, progressive Democrat. I believe that government should be there to help all of us when we need them. To protect us against corporate greed as well as foreign invasion. I believe the government should regulate the vital industries, like oil, health care, transportation, energy, food supplies, and financial institutions. I believe that government should mind its own business when it comes to an individual's reproductive decisions, sexual preference, life partner, or whether or not to gamble.

However, the more and more that I talk to my contemporaries, the more and more frustrated I become. how can blue collar working folks, making $50K to $75K a year even think of voting Republican. I can't believe my ears. The same shit they fell for four and eight years ago, they're falling for again. People who know better are telling me things like this. A waitress, who is a member of my union (I'm the principal officer) tells me she can't vote for Obama because, "there's just something about him I don't like". That's nonsense. she doesn't even know the issues. Another guy, who should really know better, resents the fact that Obama got a scholarship to college while his kid took out loans. (I know, so did Barack, but he doesn't care to hear it). Another guy tells me that he doesn't like Obama because he's a "sweet talker". I guess he'd rather have an idiot.

I realize all this is a cover for the real reason, racism. That's why I'm so scared. These are white, blue collar workers in Boston. If that's the case here, what's Ohio, Florida and Pennsylvania like? I believe these are the swing voters. Blue collar, white working class.

I'm a 56 year old dyed in the wool union activist who cut my political teeth in the late 60's and early 70's. I realize all my evidence is just anecdotal, but I'm frightened. None of us, especially me, can afford 4 or 8 more years of Republican rule, with a right wing supreme court majority for the rest of my life. To make matters worse, it looks like Romney could be VP. With an aging McCain, he could have all the marbles some day. I've had to work the state legislature of Massachusetts on labor issues with Romney as Governor, and let me tell you, that is one no good, anti-working person piece of shit if there ever was one. I'm working as hard as I can for a Democratic win. I've been up to New Hampshire (the closest swing state to me) three times since Hillary pulled out. I know what's at stake. Please calm my nerves.
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. ...
I don't know what to say but :hug:
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. oh please, louis - you live in MA?
what about me, living in TEXAS ??? :o

I hear you buddy - something has gone terribly wrong in America that repukes can still have ANY support after all they've done :thumbsdown:
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm from the Boston area also.
It's sad, isn't it, that people in our so-called 'progressive' state are still focused on race instead of economic issues. The only thing we can do is to try to sway them with dirt on mcCain, bills that he's voted for that hurt the working person, and his corruption.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
46. Let's be honest about the Northeast...
The hidden plus not-so hidden racism adds up to about the same in any part of the country. It's ridiculous to think it will be less in Boston than Atlanta or San Diego.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'd like to help alleviate your fears but I cannot.
I too, hear constantly from my fellow blue-collar union workers that they just cannot bring themselves to vote for a black man. (They don't use the term "black man") It is the most irrational thinking but they won't listen to reason. They say things like "If Obama wins then they (the blacks) will take over." and "He will be more for them than for us". It isn't all of them but it is a lot of them and they don't even bother to make excuses to hide the racism. Philadelphia is bluest of blue, hardcore Democrat but a lot of these guys are going to vote against their own interest out of pure ignorance. It is quite discouraging. We have to hope that the massive organization and new registrations counteract the white flight otherwise we are in real trouble.

On an amusing note, my work partner knocked one of these idiots out cold the other night after a bar argument that featured lots of racist statements.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I was brought up to admire black senators
My father was a liberal republican. He worked as an administrative assistant the Senator Ed Brooke (R-MA). he supported him back in 1962 for Atty. Gen.

Barack is the second African-American US Senator since reconstruction. My dad worked for the first one, Ed Brooke. Brooke once said of my late father, in a public forum, (my dad was a city councillor) that "I never had a brother, but if I did, I would hope he would be as decent and loyal as my good Friend, Cheako (my dad's nickname)". We are 100% Italian-American and this was 1970. I can't believe we haven't progressed further in 37 years.

Since that speech, Ive always referred to Senator Brooke as "Uncle Eddie".
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I wish there were more like you here.
Unfortunately, there are very few. These guys talk about Obama as if he's a project street thug or something. It's really sickening.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Carol Mosely Braun.
Also from Illinois.

Barack Obama is the third African-American Senator, not the second.
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spartan61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wish I could calm your nerves, but I agree with you.
So many Americans are just plain stupid. There is just no comparison between the candidates. Obama would be a great president and McCain??? He sucks.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have to confess that I have one of "those" friends
He fancies himself an old-school Conservative. As far as I can tell, after knowing him for 20 years, it's because he doesn't want the government forcing him to wear a seatbelt. Really, that's about it. I've never heard a better or more sophisticated justification from him in all these years. He's also been dirt-poor that whole time, so it's not as though he's getting rich off of Republican policies. What's his incentive?

He frequently asserts that "real Conservatives" don't like Bush. So I ask him "who the hell voted for him in 2004, then?" It sure as shit wasn't the Radical Left.

Beginning with the 2002 elections, I adopted the slogan that it's not possible to be sane and informed and to vote Republican. Nothing I've seen in the six years since that time has changed my view in this regard.


I wish that I could offer you something to kindle your optimism, but I fear that I can't even envision the scope of the revolution to bring this nation back onto the rails. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm eager to hear them.


Best of luck to us all.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. I know the feeling. But the same
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 08:26 PM by bbgrunt
thing happened with Kerry. An intelligent, educated person told me that there was just something about Kerry that gave them the "willies" I also remember watching some of the Frank Luntz focus groups after debates and was astounded to hear teachers and other blue collar types saying that they were strongly in favor of Bush. In fact, in my world of faculty members at a university I have been constantly astounded that union members (a voluntary union) did not grasp many of the basic issues and their own self interest. Too many were very willing to promote "student evaluations of faculty" as the only measure of merit--hoping, I guess, to outdo their peers by providing pizzas in the class and being easy graders.

This time, an intelligent, educated friend told me that she liked Obama, but found it very difficult to vote for someone who would not wear a flag pin. When I informed her of the truth, showed her pictures of him with a flag pin, and tried to talk policy, her reaction was: "I vote for the man, not the platform".

I have been saying for a long time that many of our fellow citizens have been so thoroughly lobotomized by the media and by reich wing fog, that they can no longer make intelligent decisions. I am not even sure a deep financial depression where they couldn't pay the electric to watch the tv would be enough to jerk some of them out of their stupor.

It is truly a sad sad situation.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. How is being afraid supposed to be useful to you? If I were you, I'd work on being determined
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 08:26 PM by FrenchieCat
Instead.

If you are this scared by the reaction of others to the candidate's melanin count, than you have a bigger problem than those who have found excuses not to vote for him....none which sound plausible. This "sweet Talker" statement meant what exactly? Did you bother to ask?

Bottomline is that this election is not about Barack Obama, it is about what has happened in each of our lives due to the government that we have had. Ask these folks what "freedoms" are we fighting for, and why they dislike Obama more than the people that are responsible for being involved in ripping off our country blind, and sending our soldiers to fight a war for nothing. Concentrate on talking about how China owns our currency and our real estate, and how health care is going up and up. The problem that you have is that you are being sucked into talking about the candidate instead of the issues. Talk about the issues, and they will conclude in the voting booth why they are not voting for the old White Guy who has yet to present a new idea.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Oh, you misunderstand
I'm a fighter. I'll work twice as hard, just as I did in 2004 and 2006. All New England is blue. I have to fly to a swing state, other than NH.

I'm not so afraid that I will quit trying, it's just that it is frustrating when you come up against so many people who are willing to vote against their own self-interest. I can't chain them down for an hour to listen, and I'm afraid that they just reinforce one another.

I need advice. I know many of you are encountering the same problem.

Does anyone have a magic solution?
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. i find solace in talking to voters. usually.
those days where you are getting the door slammed in your face are disheartening. but those times when you connect at the greatest antidote. i like the door to door the best. but go make some phone calls. at least you will be surrounded by like minded folks while you are calling.
besides, it keeps you out of trouble. just less time to worry.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #25
49. This ^^^^^
Go ye and do some door to door and you will feel better.

Or data entry, I find that very soothing as well.
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
43. What's the matter with unions?
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 09:37 AM by janet118
If the unions don't yet know that the GOP is out to kill them, their membership is beyond stupid. I worked with a lot of union guys during the Edwards campaign. Right after Edwards dropped out, a couple of union members told me they would not vote for either Hillary or Barack and would consider voting for McCain. I restrained myself from pummelling them with an Edwards sign. After the "Hardhats for Nixon" and the "Reagan Democrats," these guys still haven't learned that racism and sexism are just tools that Republicans use to split the union vote. Part of the reason that so few candidates take the unions seriously is because they have not been able to produce a solid bloc of voters for many years.

Anyone who belongs to a union, especially someone in the leadership, should work hard to ensure that everyone of voting age in any union family is educated in recent union history. The membership should know who the real "sweet talkers" are, e.g., the ones who brought you "Healthy Forests" and "Leave No Child Behind" and the "Patriot Act." Corporations and their GOP minions are not friends of unions or working people. They serve those who pay them to further the multi-national corporate agenda at the expense of unions and taxpayers. Unfortunately, unions have long since stopped seeing the big picture and have developed a short-sighted, "what can you do for me now" tunnel vision that alienates non-union workers and prevents the formation of strong coalitions.

What part of "self-interest, well understood" do they not get? Oh yeah, "well understood." I guess if I were in the union leadership, I would get some charts, from True Majority, the L-Curve, and other groups, which depict where our money really goes and who is really getting rich. I would start passing them out at meetings and hanging giant posters in the Union Hall. For instance, who receives more benefits from taxpayer money - immigrants and minorities or corporations and the rich. If you answered the latter, you are a winner. What the corporate borgs fear most are the formation of unlikely coalitions between unions and managers, minorities and whites, young and old, gay and straight, men and women, middleclass and poor. They fear that the working class and poor will recognize that they have more in common than not. Divisiveness is how they win. The GOP excels at using immigration, nationalism, affirmative action, guns, abortion, gay marriage, religion, and anything else they can find to keep us fighting while they run off with the store.


Despite what the media and the GOP broadcast to the public, Obama's tax plan is tilted towards middle class Americans and costs less than McCain's continued give-away to the rich. Obama wants to invest in the infrastructure by subsidizing jobs on our bridges and dams and levees. He wants to enforce laws against employers who hire illegal immigrants, rather than punishing the immigrants themselves while permitting employers to pretend they didn't know. Obama's health care plan would be a giant first step towards having all Americans covered and make it one less benefit that has be be "won" by a union. McCain's healthcare plan is a joke and it would be on the middle-class.

Here's the hardest part. If it is pure racism that prevents union members from seeing where their best interest lies, they are doomed. And so are we.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #43
51. Male, White, Blue collar, Union Memebers.........
........vote against their own self interest at a higher percentage than any other demographic

That's a fact.

and it makes me sick.
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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. These contemporaries of yours absolutely NEED Obama to win.
Otherwise their beloved Repukes will be stuck cleaning up their own mess, and they sure don't want that!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Additionally, talk about how much Bush sucks and how close McCain is to Bush in his policies.
Don't talk about Barack.

In the end, if nothing else, they will know that they are voting against their better interest simply due to the color of the other candidate's skin. That is something that they will have to live with, and acting due to racism despite the fact that it will hurt you is not anything that anyone wants to have to know about themselves.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is the area where Faux Noise and the Rush and Hannity's of the world
are paying off for the reich wing. And the irony is that most of those people have finally come to the realization that GWB is pond scum. Its no good trying to convince those people, they are too brainwashed. I just tell them I guess you are happy with the way things are now, because nothing is going to change under McSame. If they bring up their taxes going up, I always say "wow, I didn't realize that you made over $250,000". It doesn't change their mind, but it at least shuts them up.
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Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. These people have been successully manipulated by the right wing hate machine. Racism, wedge issues,
character assassinations, etc. to manipulate people who should vote for Democrats into voting against their own self-interests. As lousy as the right wing is at governing, they are very good salespeople. I am convinced that if Adolf Hitler were alive today, and the right wing and talk radio decided they wanted him to succeed, these people would have Hitler bumperstickers and lawn signs. It's truly sickening and pathetic how easily some people are manipulated by the right wing.
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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's a bad situation. In a non-bigoted country where
the media took its job even a little bit seriously, Obama would be up 35-40 points. I just watched that clip of McCain stammering, and he's as big a joke as Bush. But, hold out hope. This will be a closer race than it should be, but Obama is pulling in more money from Wall Street than McCain, (even they know the current policies are hurting us) and he'll clean up in the debates. We have the fact that he is head and shoulders above McCain in every respect. And even though there are far too many people that don't understand any more than the last commercial told them, a small majority get it. Reference the fact that during the Clinton impeachment, most people where against impeachment; also, the people have been ahead of the media and the Bushies every step of the way on the war, the economy and other important issues.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. Me too. Don't think about "them" too much. Do your relaxation drills. Continue local activism.
If worse comes to worst, we'll have to get very serious about dropping out and creating new economic relationships as much off of the grid as possible. Some of it would be sort of like a rebirth of the best ideas of the '60s with more honest self-awareness and the benefits of 40 years' worth of life experiences.

:grouphug:
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. It's funny that you sat that
my plan "B" has me and my wife ( we have no kids) moving to her homeland, the Philippines, where she has 22 acres and our house is nearly complete. I always thought of using it for semi-retirement. You know, 3 months a year there. Now, it could be my new homeland, if all else fails.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:22 PM
Original message
Sounds like a plan, but you will also need your Community.
I don't think of that as essentially geographic, but, rather, as affinitive, as in honestly sharing similar or related ethos and compatible aesthetics . . . things like that.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's amazing, isn't it? I live amongst some of the reddest of the red(necks) here
in East Tennessee and I just don't understand how *anyone* around here can vote for a republican, either. It's mind numbing. This is a pretty poor area around here and lots of people work for minimum wage or slightly above. I know tile setters who work for $8-$10/hr, and think it's *good money*. I've set tile before, too... and I wouldn't do it for less than $12/hr. When I was running a commercial roofing crew, we used to start our laborers out at $9-$10/hr. I'm used to making $15-$18/hr, but I'm also multi-skilled in construction.

I can build or frame any building with either wood, light gauge metal or steel (red iron). I can do siding, sheetrock, roofing (commercial & residential), welding, plumbing, cabinet making & installing, install central heat/air, set tile, do hardwood floors, vinyl floors, carpet... well, you get the picture.

I got my start in construction work through the union, though. My dad is a 50+ year member (in good standing) of Pipefitters, Steamfitters, Air Conditioning & Refrigeration Local 725 out of Miami. My grandfather was a Charter Member of Local 725. Two of my uncles are 50+ year members, also.

The republican party is against the worker, and it just doesn't make sense for the working class to support them. They're against everything we stand for, and it's even more amazing that a *Union Member* would even *think about* voting for a repig.

"I realize all this is a cover for the real reason, racism. That's why I'm so scared."


There's reason to be scared. I've heard a few people say there's gonna be race wars after the Election if/when Obama wins. I posted once before about some backwoods chatter I heard floating around. People around here openly state that they don't think Obama would finish his first term. Honestly, I've had the same thought once or twice myself, but I really hope that other human beings can rise above Hate and be proud that our Country has finally shown *TRUE* Progressiveness. It's a crying shame that, in a Country that's a little over 230 years old, we're still holding out hope of electing our first Black or Female President.

Peace,

Ghost

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. the FEAR of economic disaster, dying without health care, global warming, etc.
simply MUST be larger than the irrational FEAR of Obama.

I hope the Obama campaign starts to really grasp this.

I'm not a fear-monger by nature, but this is way it is.
A huge part of the population is motivated by fear.




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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. I just wish some people had thought of this during the primary
I live around far too many people like those you describe, and I actually live in a union/Dem are of Texas. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to nominate either a black man or a woman at this time? And I say that as a female- I know how much sexism is out there and we weren't winning with a woman, either. Too many ignorant asses in this country for us to go too far outside the established "norm" for our nominee.

And I'm prepared to be flamed for this, but it's just political reality that too many ignored this year. Especially too many who live outside the south, or who have never had to beg for votes for their candidate or who have limited interaction with republicans. In a year that should have been a 45 state blowout for us has been turned into a squeaker. :eyes:
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I"m afraid I must agree
this is our year. We can win no matter what. But, a safe candidate would have made life easier.

However, I've fallen in live with Obama, politically. He speaks to me. His color actually is a plus for me because it puts America in a more positive light on the world stage. He's not the safest candidate, but he's the best one.

the three best presidents in the last 100 years, in my opinion, were FDR, Harry Truman and John Kennedy. you know what they had in common? They were the only Presidents that were North East or Mid West Democrats. That's where the real Democratic Philosophy is. All the other presidents were either Repukes or Southern Dems (Carter, Clinton, Johnson).

Obama fits that mold.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. What is a safe candidate?
Al Gore?
John Kerry?
A woman name Clinton?
A Senator parked in the senate for 25 years?
A guy who voted for war and then became sorry years later?

What is this "safe"? I would like to know.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. A safe Democrat
is a white, southern, male.

Carter, Clinton, Gore (Gore actually won).

I'd rather have the better candidate, Obama.

We're just talking politics here, not ethics.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. There are no safe Democrats
They do this to all of them. Tell these people they're a bunch of stupid idiots who have been intimidated into believing that if they support a Democrat it means they're a pansy. That's all there is to it.
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rndmprsn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. self delete
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 09:21 PM by rndmprsn
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Odious justice Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. Speak clearly about what is important to people.
Why should anyone making 50-75k vote for Obama? Well, even if they don't like him, run some economic theory. As a country, the middle class always does better under a democrat. Explain that Obama is promising to close tax loopholes that will allow corporations to outsource jobs-manufacturing jobs. Explain that since major corporations-like GM- are no longer paying medical benefits to it's retired workers and Obama is the only candidate that is advocating national health care.

Everything else is an a or b issue. Social issues, the war- things that people fall into one of two categories on. Frankly, Obama could be pro life and pro war- I would still vote for him based upon the first issues I mentioned.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. To a racist it does't matter if a black man is a "baby makin' drug dealin' thug"...
or a successful college educated gentleman; shiftless or uppity are the only two boxes they will put him into.
You can't win with them.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
27. If we don't win this election, you've got far more to fear than losing the election.
I see what has happened on almost an exponential curve. First they bought "Better living through chemistry", just after world war two. Then the drug war. I still can't believe how easy that one was. Then trickle down economics. Repealing the Fairness Doctrine. Then the war on terrorism. They're coming at us at a high rate of speed now. And hardly so much as a blip. And now even a blip wouldn't hit the screen because the radar belongs to the conservatives. Although that's a far too abbreviated way of putting it.

The real problem is that people are just living their lives. I find it odd that in China, people think of "us". They're view of Americans is that we're short sighted and selfish. The odd part is, they aren't free and we are. How queer. Even our vocabulary isn't ours anymore. I can't even say queer.

If ever there was a time when we were guaranteed a win, it's now. But due to how lazy we are, people haven't gone out of their ways to actually discover the truth, rather than just watching the "news". They don't even realize it's a lot of lies and omissions.

What worries me is that democracy is like being in shape. It's easier to lay there and get fat than to work hard and be fit. And that dilemma is exacerbated by the supremely easy culture we live in. If there were no petroleum, you can bet people would be paying attention. Life is too easy. And it's about to get harder. That's ultimately what we should be focused on right now. A conservative will postpone the pain. A liberal will help us get fit again. I'm not totally sure what that means in terms of reality. I can't predict the future.

Fear is good. But too much fear is damaging. Fear not. But be awake.
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gratefultobelib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
29. Yes, I understand your fear, but I'm counting big time on the Democratic convention and the debates
to introduce Obama to more people. I have to believe he is going to win over many of those who are saying they could never vote for him. I have a lot of faith in him and his team of advisors. They haven't made many missteps up to this point, and I believe they have carefully thought out the issues you are bringing up. I can't even fathom McC winning. I just can't.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. people are stupid
They are too obedient to anyone who appears more authoritarian than thou,and too stupid ,uninformed or don't give a shit anymore to vote in their own interests anymore.
I am scared too.and not just of fools voting republican.
I am uneasy of the comprimise routine Obama is doing about certain things like the war.
I feel betrayed. I don't trust either candidate,honestly.
But despite my wariness, I know sure as hell Do not want another damn republican in there.
So I will vote for Obama for that reason.

My real choice for prez..was Kucinich but apparently he skeered the Dems who pretended they were moderates until they lost thier jobs.He skeered Dem's that thought a more republican style Dem would be more "electable".It was to me,disgusting. And of course the corporations were in absolute terror of Dennis.
He was the true progressive of all the hopefuls,and it made me sick to watch the progressives let him down because they were busy pretending to be moderates or suck up to moderates...Sigh.You cannot negotiate with psychopaths on the right and keep your principles intact.Kucinich knew that.Obama hasn't figured this out yet.This bothers me.
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. I say fuck 'em, let them burn in a hell of their own making.
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 10:05 PM by ResetButton
I'm done trying to convince assholes to not be assholes. Let them be what they are; ignorant fucking assholes.

Have a nice day:)
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. Louis Cypher(sp)?
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
34. i don't get the perception that boston is a liberal place. i lived there for years...
it was the most racist city i have ever known. that is not news to a boston resident.

not like the south where i live now. old, established and vocal about their hate.

it was modern racism. never spoken, just known.

and not just against blacks. try not being irish in certain areas, or not being italian in others (and don't post lectures about what racism is and isn't if you don't understand what i am describing, spare me and get to your class which i'm sure you are late for.)


it looks like a lot has not changed...



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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
36. my advice- start drinking heavily...and don't stop for 98 days.
no charge.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I don't drink
My first campaign was McGovern, so I'm used to being disappointed.

it's just that I'm getting old and tired of losing.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
37. Tell them about McCain dumping his first wife.
You can even say it as a complement to the Reagans because they helped her out after John dumped her and her children. Tell them what a fuck up he was in the Vietnam war. See www.waynemadsenreport.com. Ask them if they have listened to McCain. He is almost as out of it as Bush.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
40. Ignorance is bliss ...
until there's no-one left to ignore.
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Cid_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
41. I think...
I think you are limiting yourself by blaming it on "racism." Not liking a politician, even on a gut feeling, is a time tested tradition.

While I'm sure there are those who would not vote for Obama based on his ethnicity you do yourself an intellectual disservice to paint with that broad of a brush.
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
42. time to meet fire with fire
Edited on Mon Aug-04-08 08:15 AM by cap
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/01/brown-in-new-ha.html&h=161&w=215&sz=44&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=7C8FLDtQVlGFAM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=106&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmccain%2Bbangladeshi%2Bdaughter%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

Here's a picture of McCain's Bangladeshi daughter. Start passing it around to your friends who have a dislike of Obama that they just can't put into words. Ya know, McCain's daughter was born a muslim, for real. I wonder what that says about the McCains... are they really as American as they say they are? Then, why are they hiding this daughter and not taking her out on the campaign hustings in, say, oh the Deep South... like South Carolina? Are they ashamed about her? Are they hiding something? Ya heard about Cindy McCain's drug use? And how they slept together before McCain's divorce was final?
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
44. I have relatives who are using every lame-ass excuse in the book
not to vote for Obama, except their REAL unstated excuse, because he is "black". Yes, the American scourge of the 20th century has contaminated the 21st!
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
45. be afraid -- if not the racists then the fixed voting will bring us down
nt
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
47. Their Reasons Are Dumb, But Claiming It's All Because They're Racist Is Even Dumber.
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louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Why I say racism......
....is that some of these folks, a lot in fact, voted for Kerry in 2004. If that's the case, how can anyone who voted for Kerry in '04 vote McCain in '08 if it's not racism?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #50
55. And Yet The Theory Gets Even Dumber...
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
48. Use talking points from that New Yorker article.

Obama lost his one election attempt in a predominately Africa-American district because he did not put AA issues before all else. Obama has been encountering AA protestors on the campaign trail this year for that same reason.

While in the Illinois Legislature, Obama hung out with rural, White Democrats and Republicans because he had more in common with them than with his Chicago peers having been raised in that environment.


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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
52. I believe people need time to adjust to the fact....
Edited on Tue Aug-05-08 07:52 AM by Stuart G
that we are going to have an Afro-American for a President. Perhaps by November, these people will say, ok ...I got these issues with Obama..but he is still better than the idiot that the Republicans put up..It may take some time for these, and the angry Hillary people to come around, but there is still time. Plenty...I know of one guy running for office a long time ago.. who was told he couldn't win..
..give it up..forget it..

..Guess what..he did not give up. In the last month, Harry Truman pulled out the greatest comeback victory, and he alone thought he could do it. So, let us give Obama a chance. Yes, I am scared to. But he has faith. And so do I. And this crowd is not the Kerry crowd.
I believe they will do the right thing to get your friends back to vote for a Democrat. It will take some time. But we just might win. Let us not give up..OK?
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
53. David Axelrod....that is the guy..
Yea..He is pretty sharp. Not like the others. Let's give him a chance here.
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Here is a link to know more about him........
Edited on Tue Aug-05-08 08:07 AM by Stuart G
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
56. Just Do The Best That You Can Do
Refute the racists with hard, cold facts. Re-focus them on the issues like the economy, jobs, housing, wages, and healthcare. Get them talking about the issues instead of the candidate.
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