Should Prostitution Be Legalized?

[marmar]

via AlterNet's PEEK:



Should Prostitution Be Legalized?

Posted by Amelia , The Frisky at 7:32 PM on August 2, 2008.

The pros and cons of decriminalization and legalization.



After last week's post about proposed legislation in San Francisco that would decriminalize prostitution and our poll that indicated that 73% of you not only supported decriminalization but legalization as well, we decided to take a more in-depth look at both. After the jump, we break down the differences and the pros and cons of both. There may be a soap box moment from yours truly as well.

Decriminalization does not legalize sex-for-hire work, but it does instruct local police departments to treat these cases as a low priority, similar to the way in which marijuana laws are enforced in the State of California. Essentially, law enforcement looks the other way, allowing prostitutes to have the peace of mind to report crimes against them, or other crimes they've witnessed, without fear of arrest. In some decriminalization proposals, the money spent on enforcing prostitution laws is redirected to social service organizations.

* Proponents of decriminalization say doing so gives sex workers rights they wouldn't have otherwise (rights that are impossible to have when your workplace is "illegal") and offers prostitutes regular STD tests and pelvic exams, without fear of being turned in. When Berkeley, California, considered decriminalization a few years ago, Carol Leigh, a spokesperson for COYOTE (Call Off Your Old Tired Ethics), a San Francisco-based sex workers rights organization, said, "Generally, there is a distrust of the police among prostitutes. If you are raped, you don't go to the police." The theory is that decriminalization would make sex work safer -- for sex workers.

* Opponents of decriminalization say that it would increase crime and attract sex workers and johns from other areas where sex work is criminalized. As a result, law enforcement in these areas would be under an even greater burden. Additionally, opponents say decriminalization might as well be legalization, since the laws are not actually actively enforced.

Legalization is what it sounds like. A few counties in Nevada have legalized prostitution -- primarily, prostitutes work in brothels with managers or madams. The brothels pay taxes, are regulated by the local government, and are an integral part of the local economy. In addition, brothels require monthly blood tests of sex workers, so as to safeguard against the spread of HIV and other STDs.

* Proponents of legalization ultimately believe that outlawing prostitution violates an individual's civil liberties and one's freedom to do what one chooses with one's body. Like those in favor of legalizing drugs, proponents of legalization of sex-for-money argue that everyone benefits when sex work, which will go on regardless of legality, is monitored and regulated by the government. As a consequence, the spread of STD's would lessen, as would violent crimes against sex workers. Proponents point to Nevada's relatively successful bordello system as evidence legal prostitution can work.

* Opponents of legalization believe prostitution contributes to high crime rates, rates that would only increase if prostitution were legalized. Many opponents believe sex work is amoral, a so-called profession that shouldn't be on a par with CEOs or school teachers. Legalization, in opponents' eyes, will lead to the downfall of American morality.

Since prostitutes must engage in sex work in a clandestine fashion, identifying the number of American women who engage in prostitution isn't easy. Most calculations range between 230,000 and 350,000, but some estimates run as high as 1.3 million. Some women who go into prostitution do so out of desperation. Some women do so for reasons that have nothing to do with victimization.

When I was in college, I wrote an article for my school paper about sex workers. One of the women I interviewed, who worked in a Nevada brothel, came from an upper-middle-class family, was a graduate of a prestigious university, and became a prostitute because she liked sex and found the profession empowering. That's not always the case for women who prostitute themselves, but the fact of the matter is that making sex work illegal has done nothing to deter men from soliciting or paying for sex.

The focus should be on keeping prostitutes safe, from abuse, assault, rape, and murder, as well as from sexually transmitted diseases. And if sex workers should be required to get regular blood and STD tests, so should the clients who see them. Whether these two protections -- against violence and against disease -- come about through decriminalization or legalization depend upon the letter of the law. Ultimately, I believe sex workers shouldn't be treated like drug dealers, violent criminals, or pimps who exploit women for monetary gain.

Do you think prostitution should be decriminalized? Legalized? Should a woman have a right to sell her body for sex if that's her choice? We want to hear your thoughts in the comments!


http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/93643/should_prostitution_be_legalized/

[ixion]

1. In my opinion, yes it should

it's a discrete deal made between two consenting adults, and there should be nothing illegal about that.

[saltpoint]

17. What the hell's the matter with you, ixion? I can't visit this site without

reading yet another clear-headed, soundly-considered, fair-minded, big-picture post by YOU!

Damn it all!


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hi:

[ixion]

20. lol... yeah, what was I thinking?

:rofl: :hi:

Hope all is well for you these days, Old Crusoe.

[MattBaggins]

31. Ask her pimp

how "discreet" the deal is.

[johnaries]

35. If it were legal, she wouldn't have a "pimp" nt

[MattBaggins]

36. A tad bit naive eh?

ask the girls that go missing or are found dead in those wonderful Utopian European brothels if the pimps and slave traders don't exist in the perfectly flawless world where women are "free" to be buckets for various male excretions.

[johnaries]

39. Where are these "utopian Euorpean brothels" you speak of?

Amersterdam? That's the only European country I can think of immediately where prostitution is legal.

[MattBaggins]

46. Is this a joke?

Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Spain ad nauseum.

[johnaries]

52. Apples to oranges. You are talking about the sex slave trade

which is primarily the result of the fall of the Soviet Union. These are not "legal brothels". They are operating outside of the law.

[MattBaggins]

53. Not at all

I am talking about the perfectly legal "red light districts" stocked with women from around the world who are by every definition; sex slaves. Dirty little secret of the trade in enlightened European countries is that the hookers are still forced into the trade.

[Runcible Spoon]

57. not all brothels are dirty houses of sex slavery.

and not all prostitutes are women; I know that's an aside but it bothers me when people misuse gendered arguments, as if women are "naturally" the ones who are sex slaves and "naturally" the ones who are abused.

The answer is regulation and unionization. Australia founded the world's first government-mandated prostitute's union in 1996 http://www.walnet.org/csis/news/world_96/mclaire-9601.html

All over the world women collectively gather to gain better rights, although many are still taken advantage of and abused. As with any service industry which tend to hire uneducated, impoverished people, there will be a higher degree of abuse and disenfranchisement. That does not mean that all brothels function in such a way or could not be regulated to offer protections for both the workers and the clients.

[XemaSab]

60. There are MANY male prostitutes out there

More than you would EVER think.

[Runcible Spoon]

62. umm, that was kinda my point.

sorry if it didn't come across. I was arguing that the poster above was unnecessarily gendering prostitution as inherently female and as such painting them as natural victims.

[XemaSab]

65. I know it was your point--I was backing you up!

:D

(Sometime teh internet is just not the right medium. :P )

But yeah, making it about women and children totally ignores the fact that there are many happy (and unhappy) men out there working in the sex industry.

My opinion is that, like pot, if it were legalized, a lot of the associated crime would fall away. :shrug:

[Runcible Spoon]

67. >.< it's 4 am here, my brains they no work so good :P

:hug:

[XemaSab]

68. No worries

:D

[MattBaggins]

77. About your magical unionization

How much will this cost? Could that money better be spent to help the prostitutes get out of the business?

Not all brothels are dirty houses of sex slavery?
Yes they are.

[Runcible Spoon]

87. as long as you think that prostitution is innately dirty and demeaning there is no dialogue with you

Unionization would function just like it does in any other business, and prices would be negotiated.

Human society will NEVER EVER get rid of prostitution. We might as well provide protections for the workers and remove the stigma and fear.

You are a lost cause in this discussion.

[MattBaggins]

92. Thank you very much

I take that as a badge of honor then. If refusing to be hoodwinked into believing that prostitution isn't harmful makes me lost then I will gladly wander around in the dark I suppose. You go right ahead convincing yourself that it is fine for a persons sense of self worth and esteem. If you feel that "you can't stop exploitation of young boys and girls" means you might as well join them; I wish you the best of luck. Let me know how well it removes the stigma.

[Runcible Spoon]

95. go fuck yourself for insinuating that I want to exploit children.

I'm sorry you hate the idea of sex between two consenting adults.


DIRTY PILLOWS THEY CAN SEE YOUR DIRTY PILLOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Joe Fields]

109. Why don't YOU ask the girls in the legal brothels in Nye county, Nevada?

It's a different scene than the one you describe.

[Runcible Spoon]

56. unionize prostitution, cut the fucking pimps OUT.

it can, and has been done.

[MattBaggins]

82. Please back this up

Why would the Mafia give a rats ass about a Union? Do you really think they wouldn't take over the Unions? I suppose you believe that Australia's fairy tale unions have stopped the traffickers.

[Runcible Spoon]

88. these are all separate issues.

Global trafficking is a human rights issue. I'm talking about legalizing and regulating consenting sex, not giving a free pass to shipping in 12 year old Croatian refugees to feed the illicit child prostitution trade.

Whether or not the Mafia has a stranglehold over certain industries is a law enforcement and corruption issue, not a comment on the benefits of legalizing prostitution.

Perhaps it is YOU who has seen far too many mob movies :eyes:

[MattBaggins]

97. Too many mob movies

or lived six years in Germany and even gone so far ask to talk to some prostitutes. You perhaps see some Galt's Gultch of Utopian Prostitution. Some of us see the real world where a job that will only be done by girls in states of utter desperation; and that is impossible to separate the dark side out of.

Do you really think that random sex with men for money is not harmful to one's psyche?

[Runcible Spoon]

99. you remind me of a rabid pro lifer.

the only reason women feel dirty and debased for actions like abortion and prostitution is because society treats them like garbage, which apparently you are OK with. There are heroin addicted hookers and there are those making more money in a month than you see in a year. All I have tried to hammer out in my replies to you is the incorrect assumption that there is something intrinsically wrong with exchanging sex for money; it is a cultural judgment, social attitudes and mores change over time and this topic should be discussed as such.

This is my last reply to you.

[MattBaggins]

102. Funny chap

You do not have to reply any further but you do not get to go out basically calling me a misogynist since I do want to see women (or men) used as sex objects. Engaging in prostitution with a woman is treating her like garbage. I am not going stand down when you say I have no respect for women; and that I should ignore the act and just view it all as a monetary exchange.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

106. and all this time...

I couldn't think of a greater act of misogyny than using a disadvantaged woman for sex in exchange for money.

This poster seems to think that "Secret Diary of a Call Girl" is real...

[Mushroom]

107. Hell is paved with good intentions.

To rabid prolifers, females are nothing more than communal cum containers. Here's to hope and change for future generations so that they may live in peace, not torment.

[Joe Fields]

110. so is working at a factory for minimum wage.

[saltpoint]

2. I favor legalization of prostitution with these asterisks:

--that it should be monitored by social workers who can serve as advocates to the women;
--that it should be health-monitored;
--that it be taxed and that said monies be specifically directed to social service industries which benefit all; and
--that a fixed percentage of all proceeds be expressly dedicated to the homeless.

A prostitution establishment then, would offer the traditional services, but would double as a home for the now-homeless, and that the homeless would be case-managed by the same social workers and would would receive health care correspondent to the health-monitored women.

[lildreamer316]

10. Then that needs to be applied to ALL professions (percentage of proceeds to homeless)

Many, if not most prostitutes do not live together today. Brothels are not the only way to run a prostitution business. Most work out of escort agencies and live with their families or by themselves; and would probably want to stay that way.

Many will argue that their personal profit should not be singled out for garnishing to help the homeless, if other people's professions do not require the same. It should be across the board...we should all, then, have to contribute to the homeless. That's fine with me. I have served as a refuge for about 5 different friends that were thrown out of their living circumstances in the last 4 years. Sure, I'm not picking people up off the street corner, but I do my best to give to give everything I can to the local shelters. Mostly material stuff instead of money, but i do what I can.

I can understand and even see the need for social workers to be involved, but as the OP said, there are many people who choose sex work who are perfectly sound in mind and body, and capable of self-actualization without mandatory interference from a regulating agency. As an exotic dancer,many would say that *I* need the same sort of help/advocation. I think I've survived pretty well for having a career in that industry for 12-13 years (I've been out for four years because of having a child).

[saltpoint]

14. Your post impresses. A lot. By throwing in the social workers component

I was shooting for the women having an advocate against the fundie nutbag hordes who will likely raise hell and protest outside the sites.

You are quite right that not every sex worker requires case management, and I stumbled in the way I suggested the association with social workers.

Legalizing prostitution, IMO, would de-stigmatize prostitutes, who after all are human beings worthy of every consideration. Old What's-His-Name, in the New Testament, even defended one against an angry mob with rocks in their hands. Maybe she was a woman who cheated on her husband, or a woman who was a prostitute -- no way to know. In any case she deserved more than what she would have got from the mob's anger.

A homeless provision from proceeds of every business and not just legalized prostitution? I'm for it.

[lildreamer316]

21. Me too! I sense a good movement.

I am not that far from the poverty line, but I want to give a hand up to anyone who will recieve it.
You won't hear any bitching from me. :)

[Yavin4]

13. Why Do You Think That Only Women Are Prostitutes?

Interesting.

[saltpoint]

15. I don't actually.

I done me some readin' up on stuff like that.

[lildreamer316]

22. I would never infer that from his post.

There is certainly a good amount of prostitutes who do not identify as women.
I think the same applies...there are some serious stories out there!

[Runcible Spoon]

58. THANK YOU for pointing that out. Drives me crazy.

The underlying assumption is that women are somehow "naturally" inclined to "debase" themselves and as such "ask for" abuse. :eyes:

Prostitutes can be empowered by unionizing and protecting one another, IMO. Change the American attitude of sex for money from "selling your body" to exchanging a service for a payment.

[ccharles000]

27. I agree.

[Heidi]

3. Prostitution is legal here, but pimping is illegal.

On the whole, as an American, I favor legalization of prostitution in the US.

[Breeze54]

4. Is this the 'obligatory' prosti thread for August '08?

:shrug:

[marmar]

6. Nope. Just saw an article and posted it. That's all.

n/t

[blondie58]

5. yes, it should be legal

it is also legal in Costa Rica and there are mandatory checks for health, etc.

[DavidDvorkin]

7. It should never have been criminalized in the first place

It's like drugs and porn, and at one time alcohol. The underlying drive to make all of those criminal activities was based on religious moralizing, and now we let ourselves be sucked into the wrong argument -- "Should the restrictions be diminished?" -- when we should be arguing that governments have no business making such behaviors criminal to begin with.

[ixion]

8. very well said...

and spot on, IMO.

:applause: :woohoo: :applause:

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

28. ding, ding, ding

We have a winner. It really is just that simple.

[fla nocount]

9. Yes, and regulated along with all of lifes staples. n/t

[rucky]

11. No.

Politicians hate competition.

[aikoaiko]

12. Yes, with regulation, because harm to health of participants would be reduced

but, of course, not eliminated.

There will still be prostitutes desperate and ineligible for legitimate prostitution work and there will still be customers too cheap to pay for legit services. In otherwords, "black market" will still be around and causing the same problems. But at least a segment of the partipants will be healthier and better protected.

[underseasurveyor]

16. Yup

and men too.

[old mark]

18. I favor legalization for several reasons,

mostly for the safety and protection of those who would do it voluntarily.
Get the pimps and woman haters out of the business, keep so many from becoming victims.
Get the cops protecting the prostitutes.
Prostitutes of either sex are targets for all kinds of sick people - maybe some of this terrible circumstance could be eased even a little with legalization, regulation, taxation.

I believe lives could be saved and certainly improved with legalization, but I don't believe it will happen any time soon.

mark

[MattBaggins]

33. What planet do you come from

that makes you think legal prostitution gets rid of the Pimps?

[johnaries]

37. What planet are YOU from?

Why would a sex-worker have a pimp if she didn't need one?

Sex-workers could advertise freely. They wouldn't need pimps for "protection" because they could operate openly and enjoy the same protections as any legitimate business.

Sure, many ladies would want managers, but they would have open legally binding contracts that the ladies could get out of at any sign of abuse.

"Pimps" as they exist today would become extinct.

[MattBaggins]

41. Do you realize that Mafia and other Cartel

type organizations operate and control many perfectly legal businesses. Go and take an actual look at what influence pimps and slave traders have in countries where this blessed activity of using women as dumping grounds for our bodily fluids is legal. You really think that the girls working in German Brothels are there making money for college?

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but every person here parroting that fairy tale dream that legal whoring gets rid of the pimp, is off their rocker.

[johnaries]

45. Yeah, just like they run Las Vegas.

It may not completely "get rid" of the pimp, but it will definitely reduce their numbers.

It will be an improvement of great magnitude.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

86. have you been to Las Vegas?

You can't walk 100 feet without a pimp shoving photos in your face and telling you she can be in your room in 15 minutes. There are also pimps who drive around in darkened vans with the prostitutes who are topless and as they drive past groups of men they stop and turn the lights on.

I would imagine the number of johns who drive out to a trailer in the desert is quite small.

[Runcible Spoon]

90. those travesties are by no means unique to Las Vegas.

I was aware of a criminal piece of shit "employing" young illiterate Armenian girls as "lingerie models". He would withhold their passports, they spoke no English, and were allowed no contact with the outside world. My friend, who was doing her dissertation on migrant sex workers in New York, got the information to the authorities but the criminal had already moved the girls by the time they got around to actually busting him. This was Albany, NY.

Conflating sex trafficking crimes with the legalization and protection for an industry which will NEVER go away is disingenuous.

[Runcible Spoon]

59. prostitutes would have a CHOICE with legal protections. I said it 5 times on this thread: UNIONIZE

I agree that there is a horrendous amount of abuse that goes on in the global sex trade, but to reduce EVERY prostitute (and assume they are all women too) to a whimpering victim just perpetuates the negative stereotype that any person who would engage in it is either morally debased and/or forced into it at gunpoint. Your language is telling: "dumping grounds for our bodily fluids".

So tell me what you think of a couple fucking who doesn't wish to procreate? You may argue they love each other. What about fuck buddies? They have a personal relationship? What about one night stands? What EXACTLY constitutes a sexual act which is NOT "unclean" to you? And what arbitrary logic are you basing it upon?

Assuming that women, or anyone else for that matter, can't respect themselves and make a living from selling sex without becoming morally bankrupt is really naive and patronizing.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

78. their is choice and their is "choice"

I wonder how many women in the sex trade actually at the age of 12 when their friends were saying they wanted to be teachers, fighter pilots or veterinarians spoke up and said they want to blow strange men for $50 behind a dumpster.

I would imagine there are coercive forces behind virtually any participant in the sex trade.

Yes, I suppose you could choose prostitution over allowing your child to go hungry, I suppose you could choose prostituion over being reported to immigration, I suppose you could choose prostitution over having your family murdered by snakeheads.

To my great shame I have family who are involved in the pornography industry, these guys are so disgusting not even HBO could make them look edgy-respectable and they prey on girls who are either already drug addicts or naively came to California thinking they would be discovered and are a few steps away from homeless. Their "choosing" to be sodomized on camera for a weeks worth of drugs or rent and groceries.

[spin]

44. Prostitution has an interesting history...

During the Middle Ages, prostitution was not prohibited. The attitude of worldly and religious authorities towards prostitution was pragmatic. Many cities tolerated prostitution to protect chaste female citizens from rape and defilement. There were, however, a number of conditions imposed on prostitutes and their clients. Prostitutes were not allowed to be married. Married men and Jewish men were prohibited from hiring prostitutes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Netherlands

[EFerrari]

40. I think you're exactly right, mark.

I used to drive by young male pros on the way out of the Tenderloin after work and they looked so vulnerable. That could be mitigated with legalization.

[MattBaggins]

42. Please enlighten me

as too how making it legal would mitigate the vulnerability.

[EFerrari]

43. You mean, besides having access to law enforcement?

[MattBaggins]

48. Like the enslaved women of Europe?

Go right ahead and hurry on down the local police station. Your family back in Russia will be fine. You won't be found months later face down and bloated in a river.

[EFerrari]

50. Why do you hate America?

[MattBaggins]

51. I love America

But boy do I hate that fucking movie "Pretty Woman" that has all these "libertarian" types all a gaga about how wonderful and uplifting Prostitution could be if only it were legal.

[Runcible Spoon]

64. what IS it, in theory, you find offensive about exchanging sexual services for money?

Please put aside your abusive pimps and cum-dumpster hookers memes for a moment and tell us, in a hypothetically perfect world, if you think paying people for sex would be bad. DO you?

[MattBaggins]

76. Theory?

The debasement of our daughters is theory to you?

I will not put aside the pimps/slave traders as they are part of the problem that your mythical unionizing will not solve.
I will not put aside the cum-dumpster meme since that is all they are being used as. Once you blow your load it's over. We can fantasize about Julia Roberts all we want; but the bottom line is; it's about the money shot.

Is cheating on your spouse a legitimate grounds for divorce?

[Runcible Spoon]

91. I don't see prostitution as debasement if it is between two consenting adults

and the sex worker is in control of all of entire transaction.

You obviously lost the meaning of my questions, but I'll answer yours. Cheating is legitimate grounds for divorce if the cheatee deems it to be so. Laws certainly allow for that justification. I don't really see what this has to do with legalizing and offering protections for prostitution.

I'm sorry you hate the fact that people fuck.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

105. you confuse consent with coercion

You are missing a great big step as to why a woman is participating in the sex trade.

If a womans only means of support is the sex trade and the alternative is being homeless or being unable to support her children she just might go through with it. The loser getting blown in the Target parking lot doesn't have a gun to her head - but left to a better alternative she probably wouldn't be doing it at all.

The notion that this is some sort of career choice entered into without a coercive force of some sort is insanity. I am sure there are a handful of women out there who are seduced by the notion of being a high-priced call girl, and I would imagine the number of them who are sucessful is very low. But at the rock bottom level for most, participation in the sex trade is an act of desperation.

[EFerrari]

83. This isn't about wonderful but about better.

We aren't Russia -- yet, anyway.

[bamacrat]

19. It works in Nevada.

The girls are routinely given exams to determine if they are disease free. But, in all honesty if prostituion is made legal and weed is not this country is messed up.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

72. No, it doesn't actually work in Nevada

What you see on television is barely a fraction of the sex trade taking place in Nevada. Raping a 13 yearold Mexican girl for $500 in a warehouse in Las Vegas isn't quite the same thing.

[Runcible Spoon]

74. raping underage girls is not unique to Nevada, nor is it a direct result of the prostitution laws.

people seeking to illegally rape an underage girl are going to seek that out and pay for it regardless of whether or not there are legal brothels.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

80. the point is,

the infamous brothels in Nevada are only the thin edge of the sex trade, and their existance doesn't have an impact on the rest of the sex trade.

Just because there are legal brothels, escorts or whatever doesn't mean the rest of the sex trade along with organized crime will go away as some people here seem to think. And if that were legal organized crime to keep the sex trade profitable for them will just traffic in younger and more exotic prey, there are lots of republicans out there...

[Runcible Spoon]

93. and as I said before, sex trafficking crimes are a law enforcement issue, not a morality judgment

about the merits of legalizing prostitution. I'm well aware that there is a rampant problem with sex exploitation. I don't think legalization will erase the problem but it may relieve the stigma, bring more dialogue about the various concerns, and give some otherwise powerless people some choice.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

103. where do you think the prostitutes come from?

You can't seperate sex traffiking from prostitution because they go together, especially in large cities - anywhere on the west coast and increasingly in the Southeast and the stigma of street prostitution is not going away, with or without legalization.

[ForrestGump]

94. Las Vegas (Clark County) is one of two NV jurisdictions where it's illegal (so there're no real

protections), though any tourist could be forgiven for thinking the contrary because it's so blatantly advertised. That's just one reason why I think it should be legal here. The other reasons are, of course, that it potentially protects everyone involved (worker and client), if it's administered properly.

I have known, to various degrees, a few 'working girls' here in Vegas. One was a friend for a while, and she claimed that one of the big reasons why it's illegal in Vegas is that the government's making so much money on fines from the women working in that trade, not that the police particularly want to spend their time bringing in women who're out there trying to make a living doing that. She was an independent, too, and one time I spent a couple of hours with her after she'd been badly beaten (torso and arms...broken ribs and lots of severe bruising coming in) by a client that pimps had most likely hired to beat her up.

And, though much has changed in this city, there's still the old system whereby working girls will be allowed to work a casino property if they give favors (and/or money) to the right people, though nowadays the right people are more likely to be casino managers or heads of security than lower ranked security personnel. It's pretty rampant. These properties will also often allow the presence of pimp scumbuckets, even knowing they're armed and prone to violence, for reasons that escape me...one very swanky and upscale Strip resort has an area that's often monopolized by these scum at night.

I am somewhat ambivalent about legalizing prostitution nationwide (with government mandated and supervised medical checks and the like), though I believe it'd probably have an overall beneficial effect (not that it will be perfect or reduce all related crime). In Nevada, though, where it's legal outside the two largest population centers, I think it's beyond time for legalizing it...after all, it's not like the sin city of Las Vegas can claim some moral objection to the practice when Carson City and smaller places are fine with it. Legalize it, line the pimps up and shoot them in the backs of their heads, and regulate it closely. It'd be a darn sight better than the current situation, I'm betting.

[Blue Belle]

23. Yes... it should be legalized.

It's about time Jeff Gannon paid his fair share of taxes.

[Runcible Spoon]

70. AND Bush! Tax the johns, I say!

:rofl:

[roamer65]

24. It works in Australia.

It is legal and government regulated. Brothels are even listed on the Australian stock exchanges.

[MattBaggins]

54. So everytime some girl with serious esteem/mental/drug

issues gets to be a semen vessel for some sweaty overweight married guy cheating on his wife; I could make a buck?

Hooray for Capitalism.

[Runcible Spoon]

69. you certainly seem to have some misguided perspectives on this issue.

Is there some personal reason for your consistent mischaracterization and debasement of every sex worker on the planet?

[MattBaggins]

73. You watched "Pretty Woman" too many times.

I do not have misguided perspectives on this issue. No matter how much lipstick you put on it; Prostitution is about men using girls and some boys as a place to park their semen.

[Runcible Spoon]

75. You haven't addressed any of my points

and insist on substituting emotional hand-wringing for reasoned logic and honest dialogue regarding this topic.

I haven't seen that schlocky Pretty Woman tripe since I was like 15 and it has no bearing on my opinions. If anything, the movie has the same old "Prince rescues damsel in distress" message as most Disney films; hardly empowering or positive for girls.

[MattBaggins]

79. I'll keep my emotional handwringing

thank you very much.

You can pretend there are no real human beings involved. I will continue to focus on the prime issue that such treatment of others is not good for their well being if that's quite all right with you.

[Runcible Spoon]

96. I've met prostitutes, I've talked to them, I've heard their stories.

I know they are humans, and not the drug-addled cum dumpsters (to use your own words) you insist them to be. And yes, the prime issue is their treatment, which should be with RESPECT. Something you seriously lack. They should be treated with respect, given legal protections, safe working environments, and the ability to collectively bargain for their mutual benefit.

I'm sorry you want to see them strung out on the street.

[MattBaggins]

100. You mistake where my cum dumpster arrows are pointed

I mean them for the men who think that hooking is all hunky dorey. That is all the prostitutes are to them even if they have deluded themselves with images of Julia Roberts and high class escorts.

I have more than enough compassion for those locked into that dreadful world. I do not however, feel any compulsion to act as if prostitution itself merits any respect whatsoever.

[Toucano]

25. First point. Why do you say, "Should a woman have the right..."

All people have the right to do as they wish with their body.

Men, women, transsexuals.

Prostitution should be legal.

[MrSlayer]

26. Certainly.

Drugs should be legal as well.

[Sparkly]

29. For consenting adults, absolutely. nt

[Wizard777]

30. I would vote yes.

[MattBaggins]

32. Yes it should be legal

Perhaps we can add it to the curriculum taught at BOCES across the Nation. What a wonderful and uplifting profession to offer our sisters and daughters. We should work with post haste to figure out how to add this to grade school aptitude tests and allow school guidance councilors to help promising young ladies down this fine career path. Helping young girls discover and accept that they are mere receptacles for manly discharges will be wonderful for their self esteem.

[dysfunctional press]

34. yes. and smoking pot too. and smoking pot with a prostitute.

nt

[TrogL]

38. Prostitution is legal here

Solicitation isn't.

If you want a girl (or boy) you open the back page of the Sun and call an escort agency. One will be dropped off at your house and a pickup time arranged. Visa or mastercard accepted.

The only problem with have is with streetwalkers and their pimps working outside the system, usually involved in organized crime, gangs and/or drugs.

We had a townhall meeting here not along ago about it. I asked the police about creating a "Zone" where this kind of activity could occur with a blind eye. They said the problem was the Zone would be taken over by organized crime. They'd now have two problems - the Zone and the original streetwalkers.

[TexasObserver]

47. Yes. Humans own their own bodies.

[Flabbergasted]

49. I gave my opinion as it's own thread....

I think this is the solution...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3726426

[Runcible Spoon]

55. Selling a kidney is selling your body. Sex for money is an exchange of a service for payment.

Would you say massage therapists or chiropractors sells their bodies?

Legalize, unionize, routine health tests, abuse protection for all sex workers.the sooner the better!

[MattBaggins]

85. Ayn Rand fan?

Spare us the service/payment Libertarian nonsense. There are slews and slews of illegal service/payment contracts.

Your analogy is most ineffective. Selling body parts should be illegal under international laws.

[Runcible Spoon]

101. Ayn Rand fan? hardly.

I agree with outlawing the selling of kidneys. I am merely pointing out that prostitutes do not "sell" their bodies, they exchange a service. What's the difference between an asshole, a vagina, a mouth, or a pair of hands? What makes a chiropractor/massage therapist socially acceptable but a prostitute morally debased? Social judgment, not the intrinsic nature of the acts.

[Doctor Cynic]

61. Sex is legal. Money is legal. That's it.

[girl gone mad]

63. No way, no how.

It will lead to the wal-martization of sex. Not something to be desired. There are plenty of avenues for free, consensual sex in the modern world. Prostitution is a relic of the patriarchal society which viewed women (and young boys) as property. It doesn't have a place in a free and enlightened society.

[Runcible Spoon]

66. not true. The "wal-martization" of sex is already here, sorry to say.

sure there are ways to get free, consensual sex but you risk your safety, your health, your emotional well-being and that of the other person when you enter into a sexual act where the boundaries are unclear.

There were eras and cultures where prostitution was actually the ONLY way for a woman to achieve financial independence from a man and/or the expectations of her family. Our culture debases prostitutes by outlawing their profession and preaching against it under religious pretenses. But gay sex was in the same legal category not so long ago, and if I recall correctly there are still sodomy laws in the US until the Supreme Court ruling in 2004. We also know how conservative religions feel about that, but our culture is adapting to accept what was formally controversial and seen as immoral. Freedom and empowerment is about CHOICE, not judgment.

There is nothing intrinsically immoral about exchanging sex for money.

[MattBaggins]

81. You have me a bit confused.

You see a problem with debasing the act of prostitution but laud a by gone era where it was a womens only choice? What in Sam Hill are you saying there?

[Runcible Spoon]

98. do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Prostitution has been a widely accepted if not respected way for women to achieve financial independence in some cultures and eras. It was one of the few choices they had besides becoming a broodmare in an arranged marriage or working for slave wages in factory jobs.

I'm sure you think forced marriage (essentially institutionalized rape in many cases) and laboring for next to nothing to benefit industrial masters (AND getting raped at work, too) is far more ennobling to women than selling sex.

[CrazyDude]

123. Delete

...

[EFerrari]

84. So your idea of a free society is to criminalize sex?

:crazy:

[Hippo_Tron]

116. How do you propose to get rid of prostitution then?

We can sit here and argue all day about whether or not prostitution has a place in our society just like we can sit here all day and argue about whether or not teen sex is bad. But the fact is that criminalizing prostitution doesn't get rid of it anymore than teaching abstinence gets rid of teen sex.

Wal-Mart employees aren't treated wonderfully but they still do have far more legal rights than a prostitute working under the table does.

If you have a solution to end prostitution I'd like to hear it. In the meantime I'd rather that those who choose to do it have legal protections rather than not have them.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

71. No: You can't keep organized crime out of it

and even if technically legal you will still have women being traffiked for the sex trade. You know doing the sucking American's won't.

[MattBaggins]

89. But your not approaching it right.

See the problem is with Western culture being prudish about sex. If we brought our daughters up like they do in those mythological cultures that worshiped hookers we wouldn't have to worry. We just need to teach our young girls that sucking off some stranger for 50 bucks (they get to keep 10 of that) is a noble and enlightened choice; we won't have to kidnap girls from Mexico to do it.

Oh wait foreigners will probably do it for less so they might have to accept 3 bucks a John. Volume I guess.

[Wizard777]

104. Rome wasn't a mythological culture. It was considered a very valuable service.

Then Caligula married his horse and they outlawed prostitution. Nobody said they were masters of logic. But it was to protect people from what they began to see as a moral decay.......that could lead you to marry your horse. :rofl:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

108. and just like the present day

many of those who were prostitutes in ancient Rome and Greece had been traffiked as slaves for that purpose from elsewhere, the educated sex muse was hardly the ordinary.

[Wizard777]

118. Not while it was legal. Prostitues were highly regarded, Considered pillars of society.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

119. your in fantasy land

The celebrated educated sex muse represented an extreme minority of the sex trade in the ancient world and their services could only be afforded by the wealthiest of men, and only those who wanted to discuss Plato after screwing. The common sex trade in the ancient world was the realm of slaves.

[Wizard777]

120. I think you might be confused. Yes people had sex with their slaves right up to Thomas Jefferson.

But they were exactly that. Slaves not prostitutes. Prostitutes were liberated women in Rome while it was legal. They could go places other women couldn't. They could do things socially other women couldn't. They were far from being slaves. I'm speaking specifically about ancient Rome. Not the "ancient world." I'm sure other nations had sex slaves. Sometimes called concubines in aristocratic circles. Out lawing prostitution didn't really prevent the moral decay of rome. It caused the decay of prostitution in Rome. What you are representing eventually became the case for prostitutes in Rome. But that's not how it was while it was legal.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

125. you are looking at a very small portion of the picture

Just like those on this thread who want to focus on Cable TV prostitution...

the high-class call girls of their day in Greece and Rome were quite respectable, they were educated and they were cultured. They were however a very small group and catered only to the wealthy and noble, they were trained and groomed for respectability.

The sex trade in the greater society however was almost entirely the realm of slaves and foreigners. Just like today there were pimps and these pimps owned slaves who worked for them as prostitutes. Completely legal - but certainly not liberated or empowered.

[Wizard777]

126. Every Society has it's underbelly. I'm quite sure it existed to some extent in Rome.

To this day in places where postitution is legal. You still have pimps. Not nearly as many as before it was legalized. But they still slither around. I haven't really heard much if anything about Street Walkers in Rome when it was legal. The legal well educated prostitutes would be call girls. Much like we do today. The romans put their picture up in tribute. That's probably why more is known about them than street walkers. They had better PR.

[debbierlus]

111. How about we invest in our girls & teach them their bodies are too valuable to be bartered for money

I have no idea what the right answer to that question would be....

I know it makes me literally physically ill to think of my beautiful girl prostituting herself for money...

Let's decriminalize it for the prostitutes, but not for their johns.

Their is no easy answer.

[Imagevision]

112. Don't know? - what's the rape rate in Nevada? it's been a business for how long>?

[Hippo_Tron]

113. Keeping it illegal certainly isn't stopping it

Whether we like it or not prostitution isn't going away at least for the time being. And those who think that we can make it go away by keeping it illegal are just as naive as those who think that we can stop teenagers from having sex by teaching abstinence in schools.

Women who are US citizens who choose to take part in it are better off if it is done in a legal and open manner.

Sex trafficking will still exist and frankly that's a problem that is far more complicated. Part of it has to do with our "tough on illegal immigration" laws so that people are more afraid of the INS than the people that are exploiting them.

[Imagevision]

115. Prostitution isn't illegal in parts of Nevada-N/T

[Hippo_Tron]

117. I'm aware of that. What's your point?

[RoyGBiv]

114. Yes n/t

[XOKCowboy]

121. Yes

Criminalization has never rid us of prostitution. Perhaps time to try something else?

[CrazyDude]

122. The only people who need prostitutes are those with no game

Either that or people who get a thrill like Spitzer.

[XOKCowboy]

124. Yeah that's why it's been with us since the beginning of recorded history

Thanks for contributing to the discussion.

[EFerrari]

127. It lives!

:scared: