How Did A Whackjob "Homicidal" Scientist Get Security Clearance To Work With Bioterrorism Agents?

[kpete]

Serious consideration should be given to how a whackjob homicidal scientist gets and keeps a security clearance that allows him to work with bioterrorism agents.

Also, I'm still dubious about the claims Ivins' analyst made--because she claims he has homicidal tendencies going back years, which none of the people interviewed about Ivins seem to have noticed.

In court records, filed after Dr. Ivins discussed his plans to kill his co-workers, a social worker who led the sessions, Jean Duley, said that Dr. Ivins’s psychiatrist had “called him homicidal, sociopathic with clear intentions.” She went on to say that the Federal Bureau of Investigation was looking at Dr. Ivins and that he would soon be charged with five murders — the same number of fatalities in the anthrax attacks.

“He is a revenge killer,” Ms. Duley told a Maryland District Court judge in Frederick as she sought a restraining order against Dr. Ivins. “When he feels that he has been slighted, and especially towards women, he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killings.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/02/us/02scientist.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

more at:
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/02/ivins-and-the-anthrax-investigation/

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Obviously Bill Clinton's Fault

That's what we'll hear on Fox, anyway.

[Mike Nelson]

5. LOL!

of course!

[soothsayer]

2. This is a classic smear campaign.

[Mike Nelson]

3. Looks like a perfect scapegoat

I guess they don't want us to think it was "Mrs. Anthrax" or "Chemical Ali" anymore

More propaganda

[FreakinDJ]

4. This was after the Anthrax attacks

he fell off the reality plane after the FBI began investigating him

[Muttocracy]

8. some of the news stories are saying it goes back to grad school

which further begs the ? of how he got the job and why they kept him in it for years!

[FreakinDJ]

10. I haven't seen those News stories - have a link

Because that does sound slightly out of character to the story claiming he was a quiet neighbor dedicated to his wife and family that raised his sons well.

[Muttocracy]

17. here's an NPR link, think I also saw on msnbc.com

Either way something doesn't add up - either he shouldn't have gotten this job, or they're making this up now. :shrug:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93218181

...

Social worker Jean C. Duley filed handwritten court documents last week saying she was preparing to testify before a grand jury. She said Ivins would be charged with five capital murders.

"Client has a history dating to his graduate days of homicidal threats, plans and actions towards therapists," Duley said, adding that his psychiatrist had described him as homicidal and sociopathic.

Authorities had watched Ivins for some time. His brother, Tom Ivins, said federal agents questioned the scientist about a year and a half ago. Neighbors said FBI agents in cars with tinted windows conducted surveillance on his home. A colleague, Henry S. Heine, said that over the past year, he and others on their team had testified before a federal grand jury in Washington that has been investigating the anthrax mailings.

[FreakinDJ]

27. still a little puzzeling - Therapist is full of shit

On Edit -

This therapist is full of shit

Ever since the 1950s they have been doing extensive FBI checks on DOD workers. He never would have gotten the job in the first place if there had been any thing questionable in his past. - And yes they go all the way way to lil Johny's 4th grade teacher and ask her if he "played well with others"

http://media.npr.org/images/ap//AP_News_Wire:_US_News/4_Anthrax_Scientist.sff_198.jpg

Bruce Ivins, founder of the Frederick Jugglers, gives a juggling demonstration at Mullinix Park in Frederick, Md. on May 9, 1983.

Compared to this -

Ivins' lawyer, Paul F. Kemp, asserted the scientist's innocence and said he had cooperated with investigators for more than a year.

Kemp said his client's death was the result of the government's "relentless pressure of accusation and innuendo."

and they have a motive

[Muttocracy]

31. if there's something this serious, he should have been evaluated by MULTIPLE

psychiatrists. Hell, good animal shelters and rescues have more than one person do temperament testing!

So far I haven't heard anything but the word of this one therapist or supervisor, AFTER DoJ/FBI involved.

Just heard some good NPR reporting - posted here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3721081&mesg_id=3721081

[unblock]

32. did a therapist write "theripist"?

[SmileyRose]

41. Good catch.

almost funny.

[Ian David]

16. He was a Pro-Life Republican opposed to Gay Marriage, obviously. That's the Bush criteria.

They did a Lexis-Nexis search using phrases like "Homo!" but not "Homicid!".

[yardwork]

20. Especially since he may not have been qualified as a scientist, either.

I don't know whether to believe anything I'm reading about Ivins at this point, but "some people say" that he wasn't a very accomplished scientist and his papers weren't very good.

Which, if true, leads around to the overall question - Is Ft. Detrick staffed by incompetent nutjobs?

[JDPriestly]

24. Don't forget he watched while they tried to destroy his colleague, Hatfill.

That must have hit him very hard.

[FreakinDJ]

28. These guys were "Cleared by the FBI"

You don't get to work in those labs unless you have a "spotless" record. That protocal goes back to the 1950s

[liberalmuse]

6. There's no way.

I worked with an ex-CIA guy once. He had the highest security clearance and every couple of years, scary government agents had to come in our workplace and interview each of us alone with questions about his character. There is no way a scientist would get top clearance if there were anything questionable in his background, unless someone within the Bush administration wanted him to get clearance. Hell, I had the lowest clearance and they went through my background several years with a fine-toothed comb. I'm not buying it.

[yardwork]

21. Except that political considerations can override security determinations.

Your clause may be the key here - "unless someone within the Bush administration wanted him to get clearance."

And it may go back to way before the Bush administration, too. Ft. Detrick has been doing monstrous things since WWII or earlier. My uncle worked there during WWII, and he said that they were experimenting on people. That turned out to be true.

[FreakinDJ]

29. My mother worked DOD in the 1950s

and even then you had to have an extensive back ground check to work there.

- if that indeed was the case "he was allowed to work there even with a checkered past" he would have been the first suspect, not the second suspect

[Epiphany4z]

7. aww hell

look who they let be president and vp i think being a homicidal whack job has become a pre requisite .

[panader0]

9. "Weapons grade" anthrax

The Us has WMD's !! OMG!! We should invade ourselves!!

[Muttocracy]

18. or in any case, other countries have the right to! nt

[Warpy]

11. That was my question

This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[Mabus]

12. I wonder how many books by O'Reilly, Hannity and Limbaugh are lying around his house

Did he listen to the radio or watch TV?

According to his psychiatrist, "He is a revenge killer.... When he feels that he has been slighted, and especially towards women, he plots and actually tries to carry out revenge killings." So, where did Mr. Ivins get the idea that liberals were the enemy? What did Daschle do to slight Mr. Ivins? Was it because Limbaugh used to refer to Daschle as "El Diablo" throughout 2001? Rather than sweeping this under the rug, and declaring the story over, the press needs to take a look at where Mr. Ivins got his motivation.

[Ian David]

13. Monica Goodling hired him because he was pro-life and anti-gay? n/t

[larkrake]

14. I seriously doubt it was suicide or that this poor schmuck

had anything to do with the anthrax attacks. Brilliant scientists are not prone to joining the human race, and their work is always mis-used by the war machine agents. The fact remains the attacks were on democrats and it was the neo-cons who would benefit from the fear card. Those in power have proven they will reort to murder and killing to feed their schemes. This man was going to go public so was killed and painted as a killer loon.His "crimes" have been embellished daily.

[Ian David]

15. What are the odds someone making deadly bacteria might harbor urges to kill people?

His "suicide" is now the only thing that disqualifies him as McCain's running-mate.

[JDPriestly]

25. People who work on deadly bacteria are interested in science.

They aren't any more prone to have urges to kill people than anyone else. In fact, they probably are less prone to have urges to kill people. They even nurture bacteria that most of us would kill right away if we could.

[Ian David]

26. Good point. n/t

[readmoreoften]

37. I think people working on deadly bacteria in Fort Detrick are a wee bit different.

It's the land of consequentialist ethics, of breaking eggs to make omelets. Perhaps this guy just wanted a bigger omelet than the rest of the germ warfare scientists.

[Muttocracy]

19. is his "history" based on self-reporting?

because when someone is mentally ill, they may not be recalling their own history accurately. I agree this just doesn't add up.

[yardwork]

22. Either way this reflects very badly on the Bush administration.

Let's say that all these stories about Ivins are true. That means that the Bush administration allowed a homicidal maniac to continue working with weapons-grade biological weapons of mass destruction for seven years after he was suspected of a terrorist attack that killed five people. WTF?

That's the Bush administration's story?

The alternative is that somebody at a high level is conducting a comprehensive smear campaign against Ivins to make it look like he was the perpetrator, while the "real perp" is still unfound. Oh, and somebody offed the scientist. Or he was driven to suicide by federal harassment.

Either way this alone should be grounds for an immediate Congressional investigation. Botched either way, seems to me.

[JDPriestly]

23. I have been asking the same question.

I don't believe that he was always the whack job they claim he was at the end. The whole story is suspicious.

I think the government is pretty careful about security checks. He could never have lasted that long in that job with such serious personality problems. I just don't believe it.

[file83]

30. They don't. And he wasn't.

It's a smear campaign against the easiest of targets: dead people.

[spanone]

33. i've read absolutely NOTHING about this man's motive....why????

[rhett o rick]

34. Who else would you get to do this type of work. Hello? nm

[Supersedeas]

35. Duley's unequivocal claim that Ivin's is "a revenge killer." Therapist and Homocide Profiler?

Or does she have personal knowledge of his past homocides?

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. "social worker" Jean Duley, all due respect, doesn't have fuck all qualifications

to diagnose anyone of anything, much less calling a man a sociopath with homicidal ideation.

It is utterly shocking that nobody in the major news outlets is even marginally wondering about this bone-stupid affidavit. This person is thoroughly unqualified to diagnose any mental illness whatsoever. And they're citing her chicken scratch opinionating as if it were medical gospel. This is fucking disgusting.

[EFerrari]

40. If you scan the article, she seems to be quoting his shrink.

Maybe embellishing when she calls him a revenge killer, but in an earlier paragraph, quoting the doctor.

And having said that, I've known too many shrinks to give that much more weight.

Who is that shrink? Does he work for DoD? :shrug:

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. I know what she SAID

But it is pretty thin hearsay evidence to quote in this manner. They should release the assessment of the shrink him or herself, in that case.

[EFerrari]

43. Exactly. And the news outlets give the impression that she is

a psychologist, which she isn't.

[samsingh]

38. how did bush get into the white house?

[Faux pas]

39. I'm pretty sure he's being scapegoated, that's the American

Way now.