CABLE TV SURVEY!

[ColbertWatcher]

Lots of news lately about where the channels are and which ones are getting booted off the Basic cable service.

I'm not too knowledgeable about all that, so I will ask my fellow DUers to help me understand.

QUESTION 1: Do you watch cable TV?

QUESTION 2: If yes, what city are you in and who is your cable provider?

QUESTION 3: Which of the following channels are on your Basic tier:

CNN

Headline News

CNBC

FOX News

FOX Business Network

CSPAN1

CSPAN2

CSPAN3

If you have any comments please add them in reply.

Thank you.

[realisticphish]

1. k

1. Yes
2. -Columbus, OH
-Wide Open West Cable Co.
3. CNN, Headline News, CNBC, Fox News, CSPAN1, CSPAN2

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. Only basic-basic

I'm in Minneapolis (in the city limits)

I get local channels, public access, PBS, 2 CSPANs, and CNN.

My provider is Comcast.

[newmajority]

3. Comcast, Olympia WA

They have one block of channels in the 20's set up for the "public affairs channels" which would include C-Span 1 & 2, TVW (which is the Washington state equivalent of C-Span, and a few other local "public access" type channels.

CNN starts at channel 44, followed by Headline News (CNN), CNBC, MSNBC, and finally FAUX.

All of the above would be available at the "extended basic" level of service, which is what most subscribers probably have. New subscribers at this level get a digital box, but there's really only about three channels more than the old analog version, and two of them are 24 hour weather channels, and the other is a dedicated reruns channel which one of the Seattle TV stations added when they began broadcasting in digital.

Higher tier digital packages include C-Span III, Bloomberg financial news, and I would imagine the FAUX business network. Occasionally, there are some good things on C-Span III, and it would be nice to have, but I'm not paying extra for it, along with a bunch of other channels I'll never watch.

Bottom line is that these digital boxes - or the built in tuners on the new TV's - are fully capable of allowing customers to choose their OWN "menu" of channels (i.e pick 100 channels of your choice for $45 a month, or whatever)

I asked the Comcast rep who delivered my digital box why they couldn't just do that, and he gave me some ridiculous story about how it would cost them a fortune because their content providers would raise the price on the popular channels, etc. I could tell the guy was making it up as he went along.

Especially when you consider that many of their content providers, such as Universal/NBC for example, own a dozen or so of the channels they carry, and it's not likely they're going to compete with themselves.

[ColbertWatcher]

4. Thank you.

You know what else I've found weird about the way cable TV is set up: that the cable system pays to have the channels and not the other way around.

I would think that the networks would pay to be included in the lineup.

[RoyGBiv]

9. That's not a ridiculous story ...

The rights to rebroadcast these channels are sold to cable/satellite companies in packages. Disney, for example, owns and operates many channels, which they market as blocks, using their high market value channels as hooks. They leverage their hooks to push their lower value channels, but it works both ways. To be able to get the low-value channels at a certain rate, the rebroadcast company must broadcast the high value channel on a "low channel," i.e. on basic cable. This ensures the highest market injection of the high market value channels possible, allowing for higher priced advertising.

If that is too confusing, allow me to offer a somewhat real-world example. (It is a real-world example actually, but I don't have the contracts and proposals sitting here in front of me and couldn't legally publish them if I did.)

ESPN, which is owned by Disney, is the prima donna of high market value channels and the source of an enormous percentage of your monthly cable/satellite bill, relatively speaking. (Battles between those who market ESPN and the cable/satellite companies are legendary.) Disney wants ESPN on basic cable because it ensures the highest degree of exposure, thus allowing them to draw more revenue through advertising and similarly structured revenue streams. But, it costs a lot, and they charge a lot for it, so to keep cable companies happy, they have to offer them something as well when they double the price during a contract renewal.

So what they offer is SoapNet, ToonDisney, and A&E at a reduced per-subscriber rate. They might further agree not to attempt to impose any restrictions on how the cable company markets the channel, i.e. they can put it on non-basic tier.

The cable/satellite company thinks about this and finally says okay. All of their subscribers will get ESPN (and be charged for it) and their subscribers can choose to get SoapNet or ToonDisney or A&E if they get the tiers that have those channels, and they'll only pay 25 cents per subscriber instead of a dollar.

Now of course it's not as simple as all that. Laws are in place in many places that effectively prevent a la carte pricing, which is what you're talking about, particularly with cable companies. Due to the nature of their infrastructure, cable companies generally have to negotiate franchise contracts with cities, and the cities impose on them "must carry" channels. These are usually only local channels and public access and are what you usually get with the so-called basic-basic service. And, these contracts tend to set the price of this level of service, which is often barely enough to cover the cost of transmission. This isn't directly related to the example above, but in the overall scheme of things, it is because it is figured into the way these companies structure their service packages.

In addition (and this part could be much longer, but I'll keep it short) a la carte pricing would essentially kill low market value channels. As the example above implies, certain channels don't have a large enough market-share (and never would due to the targeted programming they employ) to bring in the kind of revenue that large market value channels do. They make a little money, yes, but their value to the corporations that own them is in the packaging with other channels that same company offers.

The consumer gets screwed, of course, but that's basically the way it works. If you want everything that exists targeted to the lowest common denominator or the cost of these channels to be raised so that there is no real difference between subscribing to 10 channels or 20, push for a la cart pricing.

OnEdit: There are real-world examples of a la carte pricing via the afore mention franchise contracts, or at least it is a la carte pricing in the form that would actually take hold. A certain city in Oklahoma negotiated this with a large cable provider. People can pay, for example $2 a month for Discovery, $7 a month for ESPN, $0.50 for SoapNet, etc. Plus they pay the basic rate for a slot of must-carries. The average cable bill in this city for basic (non-digital) subscribers is *higher* than basic subscribers in nearby OKC ... with fewer channels.

[ColbertWatcher]

13. Thank you, wow!

I feel like I got an education reading your post!

The only thing is, out here in California, they changed the law so companies don't have to deal with cities anymore; they make franchise contracts with the state instead.

I've read a bit about it, and it seems like it will only screw cities over.

[RoyGBiv]

16. It will ...

Those franchise contracts have a purpose and should remain. (I didn't know about California. It's slightly different everywhere.) Cable companies complain about them all the time, partly because it forces them to do things like offer a level of service they don't want to offer.

But, imo, the bigger issue is that cable companies, like electric companies in most places, use public land for their infrastructure, and they should be required to negotiate with local governments for the use of that land.

OnEdit:

I just wanted to add this because I loathe Disney (and ESPN, even though I watch it ... I'm addicted, and they know it, the bastards).

The basic battle between ESPN and cable/satellite companies starts like this:

ESPN wants to raise its rate. It informs the cable/satellite company. Said company threatens to make ESPN a per-subscriber service like HBO. Battle ensues in which nothing is accomplished. ESPN waits until a highly anticipated sporting event is coming up. (They'll be using the Super Bowl for this now.) They start running targeted ads in local papers and elsewhere saying that their cable/satellite company is going to start charging for ESPN and you won't be able to get the damn Super Bowl. (They've always charged for ESPN; it's just included in the monthly bill.) Cable/Satellite company counters with local ads saying ESPN is trying to raise your rates.

In the end, the channel stays on basic, the cable/satellite company gets charged less for a different channel or gets a new channel for basically nothing for a period of time, your rates go up a bit less than they might have three months later, and everyone, except for the consumer of course, wins.

[RoyGBiv]

19. P.S.

I know I'm being wordy this evening. I actually have some knowledge of this, so I tend to get wordy about it. I just wanted to add this for the sake of trying to be a bit more thorough and not cause confusion.

Everything I said is currently in the process of changing. Changes in FCC regulations, including the switch to digital over-the-air and regulations about set-top boxes, are part of the cause as is the movement of traditional telephone companies into the broadcasting business. Also important are some basic differences between the way satellite and cable/phone companies work, and different companies are trying to get the edge on the other by structuring things differently.

You can, now, get quasi-a la carte pricing with some satellite services, e.g. the all-news or all-sports tier and nothing else but the basic-basic required by the franchise agreement (with cable) or nothing else with satellite/telco. Cable companies also offer this, but they have mostly been marketing it to businesses, e.g. something they would sell to a sports bar. That is slowly moving into standard consumer market.

Overall, it's not going to help your monthly bill get any lower unless you really are one of those people who only watches cable news or sports because when you start combining the tiers to get all the individual channels you want, you'll end up spending more than you are now. Very, very few of these people exist.

The foundation of this system was set with the digital packages every company offers, e.g. "family tier," "movie tier," etc., which the companies have been playing with for years now to maximize their revenue streams. They do things like put Encore Wam (What Adults Miss), which is targeted at teens, on the family tier, and Mom and Dad then realize they like this little channel and realize their company offers a lot more Encore channels for those who like Westerns or Mysteries. So, they call up their provider and ask for that, and before they know it, they have just subscribed to another tier. And *that* tier has a channel on it that advertises ESPN Classic, which shows a lot of classic sports-themed movies, but that channel is on yet another tier, so the family decides to get that one too ... just a few dollars more.

When they're all done, they have everything and a shiny new phone bill because it's just a few dollars more, but all they really wanted was three or four different channels.

And they'll do the same thing with the new structures, only more so.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. 1. yes

2. Kansas City - Time Warner

3. all except CSPAN 3

[PBS Poll-435]

6. I'll Bite

1. Yes. Religiously

2. North Dallas - AT&T Uverse

3. All of the networks you listed are included in the cheapest package.

[mwooldri]

7. Here goes.

1. Yes (cos there's really no other choice (no LOS for satellite, refuse to be limited to some of the networks)
2. Time Warner Cable - Greensboro, NC.
3. Define Basic Cable.

Here Basic Cable is the broadcasts, plus 3 public access and 1 Time Warner Cable news channel. I think WGN bleeds through but that's considered a "bonus". That's the $10 a month package. Otherwise there's the standard package, where we do get CNN, CNNHN, CNBC, Faux, CSpan1, CSpan2, and MSNBC (though you dont list this as asking whether we get it on "basic cable"). That starts out at $55 a month, though if you package it with Roadrunner and even phone you get discounts. They have a deal where you get this package, mid-range Roadrunner and unlimited Carolinas phone for $100 total.

I have digital cable, I get CSpan3 and Faux Business on there. I have nearly the fastest Roadrunner too... plus some other online package. Sets me back $120 a month.

Mark

[elocs]

8. 1. Nope--I get my tv channels for free over the air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5scpDev1qps

57 CHANNELS (and nothin' on)
Bruce Springsteen


I bought a bourgeois house in the Hollywood hills
With a trunkload of hundred thousand dollar bills
Man came by to hook up my cable TV
We settled in for the night my baby and me
We switched 'round and 'round 'til half-past dawn
There was fifty-seven channels and nothin' on

Well now home entertainment was my baby's wish
So I hopped into town for a satellite dish
I tied it to the top of my Japanese car
I came home and pointed it out into the stars
A message came back from the great beyond

There's fifty-seven channels and nothin' on

Well we might'a made some friends with some billionaires
We might'a got all nice and friendly
If we'd made it upstairs
All I got was a note that said, "Bye-bye John
Our love is fifty-seven channels and nothin' on."

So I bought a .44 magnum it was solid steel cast
And in the blessed name of Elvis well I just let it blast
'Til my TV lay in pieces there at my feet
And they busted me for disturbin' the almighty peace
Judge said, "What you got in your defense son?"

"Fifty-seven channels and nothin' on"
I can see by your eyes friend you're just about gone
Fifty-seven channels and nothin' on
Fifty-seven channels and nothin' on

[DaveJ]

10. I'm sure you can get this info from the cable company websites. nt

[ColbertWatcher]

11. But, I'd like to know from DUers. n/t

[DaveJ]

14. Okay

I have the cheapest basic cable from Comcast here in Chicago, almost all just local channels. It has the local Fox channel but not Fox News, and no CNN or CSPAN. Interestingly, it does have MSNBC though.

[caraher]

12. my answers

1. Yes (not much though)
2. The vast metropolis of Crawfordsville, IN. Comcast
3. Basic satellite includes

CNN

Headline News

CNBC

FOX News

CSPAN1

CSPAN2

[doc03]

15. Yes I watch cable

Rural area in Ohio/Comcast

What they call Standard Cable only has C-span 1

I have Basic cable it has CNN HLN CNBC FOX Noise and C-span 1

They moved C-span-2 to digital and just this Tuesday they moved MSNBC to digital.

[lonestarnot]

17. Who's this information for CW?

[ColbertWatcher]

20. Everyone.

I've seen quite a few threads lately about how MSNBC is being moved off the "basic" tier in Pittsburgh.

I thought it would be helpful to get a survey going to see how the channels are for everyone else.

Of course, I realized after the editing deadline that I had left off MSNBC.

Oh, well, it's interesting to see how everyone's cable is around the country. Plus, I was curious to find out who would be able to watch the Impeachment stuff.


Oh, and mine:

Yes, I watch cable TV.

I live in LA, and I get Time Warner.

The basic package includes:

CNN

Headline News

CNBC

FOX News

CSPAN1

And MSNBC, which I forgot to include.

[ColbertWatcher]

21. Saturday afternoon kick. n/t

[RoyGBiv]

18. I should actually answer the questions ...

1) Yes.

2) Houston - Comcast (which I *hate* with a white hot fury)

3) CNN, Headline News, CNBC, Fox News, CSPAN1, CSPAN2

[Junkdrawer]

22. Comcast, Pittsburgh, PA. We just lost MSNBC (CSPAN II earlier this year)...

Basic Comcast:

CNN - Yes

Headline News - Yes

CNBC - Yes

FOX News - Yes

FOX Business Network - Never had it

CSPAN1 - Yes

CSPAN2 - Lost it about the time of the Leahy hearings

CSPAN3 - No

MSNBC - Lost it Tuesday

[NightWatcher]

23. I told comcast "buh bye" now I only get fuzzy CBS through the air

who won Celebrity Circus? I gotta know........not