Should Be Ashamed

[Madspirit]

Maybe I shouldn't bring this up again. I don't know. When a glaring hypocrisy hits me in the face I can't really get any peace until I bring it up. So I am and I apologize ahead of time.

The thread will probably get locked quickly because there are so many who feel the need to defend their right to be offensive by being offensive that threads like this stand little chance of staying open. I think there could be valid conversation and debate around this or at least people sharing their feelings but alas, there will be those determined to drag the thread into the roiling muck.

What is this glaring hypocrisy that eats at my stomach?

About a week ago, I guess, maybe two, Ann Coulter called Edwards a faggot. In this usage it is a very derogatory term used against gay men. Using derogatory language is not only offensive but it desensitizes people to things like violence against gays, etc. Making something that isn't funny, a laughing issue, promotes violence. ...and gay men should not be subjected to being called a faggot any more than a black should be subjected to being called a nigger. If you think it's cool, you're wading in the roiling muck.

Most at DU did not find it cool. Most were terribly offended by that woman's callous and grotesque sense of humor.

Yesterday, Libby was found guilty. Good. What happened here? Well, there was revelry and glee, which is fine and fun. It's nice to see a little justice. ...but there wasn't just revelry and glee, there were rape jokes. How can someone have the unmitigated gall to complain about a term like "faggot", all whiny and sensitive, as we should be about that AND THEN TURN AROUND AND THINK IT'S OKEY DOKEY TO WISH RAPE ON SOMEONE, ON ANYONE. Or to use rape as part of humor.

Rape is not funny. Rape jokes are not funny. Rape is a horribly violent crime. Some victims think it's worse than murder and commit suicide when they are raped. No victim is EVER the same again. It is one of the most egregious acts of violence that can be perpetrated against a person. It is total violent intrusion into another person's body. There isn't much worse. Making jokes about it desensitizes people and belittles the victims. Anyone who jokes about rape should be ashamed of themselves.

Don't complain to me about "faggot" and then talk about Libby becoming a shower accessory because when you do, you make me sick and ashamed. They are both horrible horrible horrible. No compassionate-minded person would EVER use either.
Lee

[VelmaD]

1. What. You. Said.

:yourock:

[meegbear]

2. You are absolutely right ...

I stand with you on this.

[DiverDave]

3. Nail, meet Hammer

I agree with everything you said.

[Madspirit]

4. Thanks you guys

I didn't think I was overreacting. It really really bothered me.
Lee

[Dhalgren]

5. No argument here. You are absolutely right...

[Taxloss]

6. Hear, hear. n/t

[caseycoon]

7. Agree 100% n/t

[Mr. Ected]

8. Consistency Counts

Hypocrisy is a blight on your character.

All politics aside.

[sniffa]

9. k & r

i'd put even money up that the "defenders of humor" may show up.

fuck them.

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. Agree 100%...the rape fetishes that some people have on these boards

are disgusting and immoral.

[helderheid]

11. Greatest page #5!

[Hepburn]

12. 100% agreement with your OP

Rape is NOT a laughing matter. PERIOD.

[Matariki]

13. Thank you.

This attitude is part of the underlying cause of the level of injustice that goes on in America. Injustice in our courts, our prison systems and extending to a policy of torture against which there is barely any public outcry.

To see it perpetuated here is always disgusting.

[IndyOp]

14. Agree 1000%. I thank you for posting your strong statement.

When I arrived at DU, I had a "heh heh" attitude and then I read threads like yours that brought home to me the fact that "prison rape" is "rape." I am ultra-sensitive to issues that relate to rape, but I didn't have any sense of connection to or compassion towards people who went to prison.

Righteous anger, expressed well - as displayed in your post - helps people wake up!

[Truthiness Inspector]

15. Agree and good post

I didn't see any rape "jokes" but from the responses it sounds like it was a problem.

[mopinko]

16. agree. nt

[JuniperLea]

17. K&R

There is one, simple, basic truth. Call it Karma, The Golden Rule, or "howsoever you treat the lesser of your brothers is how you also treat me"... paraphrasing here a tad, but I'm sure you get my drift.

Civilization is getting less and less civilized as the days go by... and it sure is showing here on DU.

I get sick every time I see this sad behavior rear its ugly head. Maybe that's why I don't come here near as much as I used to.

[ceile]

18. Agreed.

I quit reading after the jokes of his (presumed) jail time.

[lectrobyte]

19. Well said. We should all learn from this, and try to do better.

Rape is a horrible thing, and what sort of society are we by condoning it for a subset of the population, not to mention the fact that we are creating more rapists potentially, and further demonizing ex-cons.

[aikoaiko]

20. Its just a schadenfreude thing.

Is it really so wrong to enjoy thinking that someone will reap with they sow?

[Madspirit]

21. Not so much about Libby

...as it is about rape and yes, it's horrid to wish that on anyone. ...and no one who does can hold themselves as better than the lowest of the low...right up there with Ann Coulter.
Lee

[Cabcere]

22. K&R. Thank you.

As much as we may despise these vile people, we must not lower ourselves to their level - just because they do bad things, it doesn't make it okay for us to try to outdo them. Thanks again for posting this.

[Dorian Gray]

23. Wow.

I haven't read many of the Libby threads, so I haven't seen that. People truly wished rape upon another human being? Even jokingly? That's awful. Totally agree with you. People do need to be more thoughtful before they post.

[EFerrari]

24. Kick

[Ino]

25. I just hope Libby gets whatever he deserves...

I would certainly never wish that the torture & rape of little girls which this scum not only dreamed up, but published for others' "enjoyment," would ever be visited upon his own person.

Excerpt from Libby's 1996 book, The Apprentice:
http://www.nerve.com/dispatches/libby/dirtypolitician/

The young samurai's mother had the child sold to a brothel, where she swept the floors and oiled the women and watched the secret ways. At age ten the madam put the child in a cage with a bear trained to couple with young girls so the girls would be frigid and not fall in love with their patrons. They fed her through the bars and aroused the bear with a stick when it seemed to lose interest. Groups of men paid to watch. Like other girls who have been trained this way, she learned to handle many men in a single night and her skin turned a milky white.

[Madspirit]

27. No One Deserves Rape. Period

You can't call yourself better if you wish the same on another.
Lee

[Madspirit]

28. Also

The moderators have said rape jokes are not appropriate, not proper and not allowed here. ...and that's kind of the final word now isn't it.

You really can't call yourself better, if you want the same thing you call horrible visited upon someone else.
Lee

[driver8]

26. Excellent post!

There is nothing funny about prison rape -- nothing at all. No one deserves to have that happen to them.

[noamnety]

29. one more k&r

Thank you.

I am sick of people promoting a culture of rape and homophobia, then excusing it by saying it's okay because they're only targeting republicans.

[WindRavenX]

30. thank you this needed to be said

:thumbsup:

[NMMNG]

31. Rapists are scum

Those who wish rape on others are not much better.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. agreed n/t

[undeterred]

33. I put someone in prison years ago

for raping a 16 year old girl and another young woman. The same person had attempted to assault me and I reported it- I later was used as a witness against him in the trials for these crimes.

He got something like 5 to 15 for each crime. I remember the DA telling me that things would not go well for him in prison because he was a sex offender. At the age of 19 I had no idea what that meant, and when I found out I was horrified, that I may have sent someone to a place where he could be raped, not just once or twice, but repeatedly over the course of many years, and then be released back into society.

Thats not justice.

[Madspirit]

34. You were right

You were most definitely in the right for sending this person to prison. People have a right to be protected from a predator. You can still feel compassion for what probably happened to him in prison but you do not have to bear any guilt. As I said, this person you speak of was a predator.

Prisons need to be overhauled. They are just terrible. There is no such thing as rehabilitation and people come out much much worse than they were when they went in. It does the criminal no good and it does our society no good. What goes on in prisons is unconscionable.

Still, you could now allow a serial predator to remain free. You have no guilt to bear.
Lee

[undeterred]

35. I'm glad I didn't know beforehand

what prison was like, or it would have been harder for me to do. I would have felt responsible for what happened to him, even though I would have felt more responsible to get him off the streets.

[Obamarama]

36. Personally I think the pious outrage over the Libby jokes is a little overdone.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think the outrage expressed on DU about the comments is a little over the top.

Making a little funny about Libby doesn't mean anyone condones rape or think it's funny. IT JUST DOESN'T. It must be very exahausting being so morally outraged over so many things as people seem to be around here lately.

These moral finger waggings, lectures and admonishments are becoming a weekly event around here, and quite frankly they're becoming quite tedious.

[bettyellen]

39. may i borrow an recommendation so overused on this issue and ask you to GET OVER IT

would having some respect really be so hard? pious? sure you don;t mean PC, LOL!

[Madspirit]

40. There is not enough moral outrage here

...and the moderators agree. There is not one funny thing about rape or rape jokes. Not one. I wish there was more moral outrage. I would never ever trust someone who doesn't take this seriously and on the heels of the outrage at Ann's "joke" such hypocrisy. It makes me sick. There are rape survivors on DU. Ask them how they feel about rape jokes.
Lee

[cboy4]

37. K&R. Thank you.

:kick:

[tammywammy]

38. k&R

I agree with everything you said.

BTW, I think it's also bad, when people are upbraiding Coulter for saying faggot, but then a few posts down would be someone calling her "mann coulter." It's all wrong. I have to wonder if people even think before they type sometimes. :shrug:

Being a victim of rape, I would never wish that on my worst enemy.

[Madspirit]

41. The hypocrisy is telling, isn't it.

To criticize Ann and then make transgender jokes. Some people are in deep need of some consciousness raising. Stat. Or they should change parties.
They know they are supposed to be respectful of GLBT people at DU. What the hell do they think the "T" stands for. It's right in the rules.
Lee

[Morgana LaFey]

42. Well, how do you feel about

these discussions -- ??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x358015

You can see the photo in question here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=229x6490#6582


If your outrage extends to cases like this, I'd certainly like to invite your participation in that thread. If it doesn't, I'd like to know why.

[Madspirit]

43. I read your comments

I read what you wrote and I agree with you. I will comment more on the thread tomorrow.
Lee

[Morgana LaFey]

51. Well, great, but

will it even be still available tomorrow? Probably not.

But thanks. I guess.

[sammythecat]

44. I made a few replies yesterday

in a thread much like this one.

I feel exactly the same as you.

[Danger Mouse]

45. A few years ago, I had read about what a serious problem that is within the prison system.

That, along with all of the violence.
Our prison system is terribly unjust, bloated, cruel, overcrowded...
I did make a comment recommending that scooter 'not drop the soap'...in retrospect, I feel kind of silly about saying that.
I wouldn't want to see him become anyone's 'prison bitch,' I'd rather see him sing like a canary.
I think our country is in dire need of prison reform...but Lord knows if that'll ever happen.

[vssmith]

46. I don't wish Scooter to get raped but

it wouldn't bother me if he had to worry about it every day for a while.

[CRH]

47. Rape and Humor go together ...

like making killing look cool, as is so prevalent in the film culture of today. There is a desensitizing of our society and culture, after years of exposure, that is becoming quite apparent in knee jerk responses of unbridled mental and vocal violence. Hypocrisy in this case, is the least of the problem.

Just an added note that is off topic, ... But, isn't there special federal prisons for the privileged in this country, for the likes of Jimmy Bakker, the Enron crooks and other white collar scoundrels? I have heard in the past about facilities that were more like apartments with tennis courts for the exercise periods, and weekly wife visits that afforded private times. If this is true, it seems after the appeals, at most, Scooter will have a few months to work on his book. If this is so, those who made the comments of the soap on a rope type, are as naive as they are insensitive, and the only rape will be that of justice.

[Madspirit]

48. I've read that

Federal prisons aren't really the country clubs they used to be. Still nicer than state prisons, of course but I think some of the perks have been reduced. Also, someone on one of the threads had a link that rape is not an unknown in federal prisons. You are still locked up and completely under someone else's control.
Lee

[me b zola]

49. k&r

[HardRocker05]

50. i doubt that anybody who complained about 'faggot' is okay with rape. strawman. maybe

somebody made a rape joke, but was it one of the same people who were complaining about the faggot reference? who here is justifying rape jokes? not me; and yes, i opposed the faggot reference as well.

[Cerridwen]

52. I agree completely. Well stated.

I'm too late to the thread to recommend; know that I would if I could. I missed it in the time frame *sigh*.

So, I'll have to be content with chiming in and saying



:woohoo:

:yourock: