Why is it unfashionable, unacceptable, unpatriotic, & ridiculous to even mention revolution?

[Philosoraptor]

Cause it instantly brings ugly pictures into the brain, riots, bloodshed, turmoil and general messiness?

Cause it would be pointless? Cause it's just silly and archaic?

I have actually heard average folks on the street using the word lately, is it time for one, or is it just not time right now?

Will it happen whether we want it to or not, or will it never happen?

The word revolution is almost like yelling 'fire' in a theater, no one wants to talk about it, its always instantly laughed off and explained away quickly, as if its just too ridiculous to talk about in the once revolutionary United States of America.

Don't you think we all need to revolt against these monstrous assholes? Not figuratively but literally?

[vincent_vega_lives]

1. John Lennon said it best

You say you want a revolution
Well you know
we all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you got a real solution
Well you know
we'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
we all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know know it's gonna be alright

[Philosoraptor]

4. I loved John, but this song is totally irrelevant now.

Revolution does NOT have to be hateful, or Chinese Communist, or destructive, and our constitution is ALREADY changed.

[vincent_vega_lives]

Irrelevant?

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
we'd all love to see the plan

[Philosoraptor]

12. The Russian solution

The Russians physically surrounded the communist seat of power, 'the white house', and 3 million strong they pushed the commies out the back door, not a bullet was fired, not a drop of blood was shed.

[cobalt1999]

24. but it didn't end up so good for them in the long run.

Putin and Co. means the old regime just changed names and continues on. Maybe they should have had a real revolution.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Don't ya know that you can count me...

Out/ In...John sang both words, for dang good reason.

[Cronopio]

20. "Revolution does NOT have to be hateful ..."

Right on, and I'll go you one further - true revolution *must* be against hate and the threat mentality, or it won't be a revolution for long.

Threatening a threat just reinforces and legitimizes the rule of threat. Too bad a lot of people don't want that truth generally understood.

[leftofthedial]

2. sedition and inciting sedition are illegal

I don't think these days it is at all unfashionable though, nor unacceptable or ridiculous.

as for patriotism, that word has no real meaning anymore, having been utterly corrupted by the right.

[Posteritatis]

5. Sedition hasn't been illegal for eighty-seven years. (nt)

[leftofthedial]

7. beg to differ.

the Smith Act is still law.

Individuals have been prosecuted for sedition as recently as 2006-2007.

[baldguy]

3. Two reasons

1 - Its a crime to advocate the overthrow of the US Government.

and

2 - Americans are generally stupid, fat & happy & want to remain that way.

[Philosoraptor]

6. The crime of overthrowing our government has already occurred.

And WE aren't the criminals.

[datasuspect]

8. i like the way they put it in the declaration of independence

the founders of this country revolted against england for less than the "abuses and usurpations" we have endured since 2000.


"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

[Philosoraptor]

The VERY SOUL of America is revolution, yet we can't discuss it.

[datasuspect]

22. revolutions keep democracies vibrant

[PurpleStateVoter]

28. not true..

Many of our founders opposed the French revolution because it was too revolutionary. The soul of our country is actually to be wary of using violent revolution to change politics.

Most Americans are glad that our changes in leadership doesn't result in people taking up arms. You want to change that?

[Ghost in the Machine]

19. "Its a crime to advocate the overthrow of the US Government." That's bullshit, our Declaration of

Independence specifically *allows* us to overthrow our government when necessary.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Charges of "plotting to overhtrow the government" can be fought.. and you *can* win...

[PurpleStateVoter]

30. Declaration of Independence isn't law..

The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it sets up a democracy. Using violence to overthrow a system they set up is surely not what our founders wanted. They'd say we need to take control of our govt. not destroy it.

[Ghost in the Machine]

31. Who said we had to destroy it?

Why can't We, the People, take back OUR White house and drive these scumbags out? It's our DUTY to do so, to protect & defend our Constitution which is being shredded before our very eyes...

We can run all the complicit cronies, from both sides of the aisle, out of our houses, too...

[PurpleStateVoter]

33. agreed..

But you said "overthrow" not take back control of. I'm glad we have a candidate who seems to really believe in principles of govt. transparency.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. There is a revolution going on.

It's against the neo-colonialism of the United States. It's taking place all over the world, and it's winning.

Bloody and violent is some places, Iraq, Afghanistan, Columbia, Palestine, bloodless and non-violent in others, Brazil, Chile, Equador, and economic in others.

We are being brought to our knees by a world revolution We're still touting ourselves as the greatest economic and military power, but it's all on paper.

The collapse of the American Empire is under way. But, we're still too busy watching American Idol and the Big Game or spending ourselves into bankruptcy to notice or take part.

[sui generis]

10. who you hangin' out with?

I don't know any revolutionaries. Quite a few rebels though!

Ohhhh. You're referring to Those Who Nudge Nudge Wink Wink May Not Be Exposed As Trolls in the gunjeon? Yep dowgie, we need them malishas to save us from the gummint, because militias are completely trustworthy and they know what's best for us cattle who can't possibly think or do for ourselves. Militias, revolutionistas, simpletons. The trifecta of stupidity.

[Wiley50]

11. " Your Highness, the peasants are revolting!"

" I know, they're absolutely dreadful. That's why we keep them repressed."

[JVS]

14. "You said it, they stink on ice"

[datasuspect]

23. "it's good to be the king"

"don't be saucy with me Bernaise!"

[cobalt1999]

13. ...because revolution is the final option when no other options are left to make change

Most people think there are options available (elections, pressuring elected officials, courts). The mood of the country is definitely against the existing GOP.

Revolution will not be considered as long as most people have hope for change through existing channels.

[JVS]

15. It takes a lot of loyalty and towing the party line to make a revolution.

[LeftinOH]

16. Because our King rules by the will of GOD! To revolt against the monarch

is to rebel against the Almighty!!!



Long live His Majesty King George III!
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:

[LanternWaste]

17. Because it would interfere with our well-spent time

Because it would interfere with our well-spent time glazing out on console gaming systems and listening to our i-pods...

[stranger81]

18. It may be unfashionable, but I disagree that it's any of those other things . . . .

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:429

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1770.htm

"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independent 11 years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is its natural manure."

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl64.htm

[mdmc]

21. This is a Democratic Party discussion forum

The Democratic Party is the other half of the ruling class.

[PurpleStateVoter]

27. If we are only a caste system..

I doubt Obama would be our party's nominee. What do you mean by ruling class any way?

[mdmc]

38. Our political system is dominated by two parties

The Democrats and the Republicans. It is very rare that a politician gets anywhere without being in one of these two ruling parties.

[PurpleStateVoter]

44. so what?

The Nazis came to power in a system with many parties because it allowed very extreme elements to gain seats by only getting a small minority of voters. Having a two party system requires the parties to appeal to centrist voters.

[mitchum]

42. A very very good answer

[PurpleStateVoter]

25. Calling for revolution would be bad..

On a political strategy level it'd play right into the hands of conservatives who try to say Obama/Democrats are scary revolutionaries who want to destroy America. They'd be able to say that we have no ideas and had to force ourselves onto voters.

On a moral level, revolution is a mostly violent means of pushing an agenda so it should only be used when the majority are organized and don't have free means to promote change. This isn't Zimbabwe, we still have free elections and if dissent was forbidden, would Obama be where he is?

I'm sorry but I think people endorsing revolution to fix our current problems are being lazy and frustrated. If you can't convince people to willingly support your policies then maybe the policy is a bad one.

[lynettebro440]

26. Revolution?

Hell you can barely get people even to watch or read about the real problems. But hey take away their American Idol and then......

[kwenu]

32. These sorry bastards can't even get off their asses to vote!

You think they're going to move for a revolution? Oh please. You might get a revolution if we made alcohol illegal.

[tomg]

34. I just finished watching four of

the episodes of This Brave Nation. In 1967/68 and the like, a lot of us were all convinved there was going to be a revolution: the assassinations of Malcolm X, of King, of Kennedy as a starter. I can honestly say that it was a Romantic notion, at least on my part. There really were riots in the streets and students at Jackson State and Kent were really killed.

Well, forty years later, the right to choice, an enviromnental movement, finally the beginning of Gay rights, women's rights. The reason I mentioned This Brave Nation is because I was watching Majora Carter and Pete Seeger and Tom Hayden and Naomi Klein and Bonnie Rait and Dolores Huerta. They are the kind of people who are, to me, the real revolutionaries. Christ, Seeger has been doing it for 70 years straight. Jimmy Carter is not a revolutionary? The inevitability of Barack Obama's presidency is a revolution.

Maybe it is a long long long guerilla war. On one side are the guerillas: from the abolitionists, the union members, the civil rights people, the women's movement, the glbt activists, the environmentalists, the voter registration folks, the antiwar people. On the other side: the capitalists, the fascists and the warmongerers and their ilk.

What sucks is that we had our asses kicked for the last eight years. What's pretty good is that they are about to get theirs kicked.

on edit: it's pretty hard to listen to Pete Seeger and Majora Carter and not be optimistic and energized.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. I'lll tell you why

we know this "kid" who we helped to raise

He is no longer a kid, he just graduated into this wonderful economy

He is extremely frustrated that nothing is happening and he is politically active

We asked him yesterday the one obvious question

Are you willing to die if need to to bring about change? Which could be a requirement in a violent revolution, we have had plenty of mostly peaceful ones... he himed and hawed...

Until people realize we are there... and it is time to decide, even the talk will scare people away

Of course there is much he wasn't taught at his history of the US required course... can you say 1933 attempted coup? but that is another story

[annabanana]

36. We need a new word.

One that sounds more, I don't know, possible... not anchored in the past. Or one of the old words with a new twist..

[cayuga]

37. This is better than revolution:

I vote for a civil war. This country is certainly as divided as it was in 1861.

Plus we are in the majority and when Obama gets in office, we will have the military.

Plus by getting rid of the red bastards there will be more oil for us...and many of the crises we are enduring will be eased.

Civil war!! Let's start by getting rid of all the pinheads at Fox.

[Batgirl]

39. Bushco screwing over of the U.S. did more than piss people off,

I think there are a large number of people who have been pushed beyond anger into feeling they don't have much to lose.

So many people who've lost their homes and jobs, and even more who know someone who's in that position and feeling every day they could be next.
It seems there is a growing awareness that this clusterfuck that's going on is the result of the failure and in a lot of cases deliberate mismanagement of institutions that most of us spent our lives believing in.

Our nightly walk through the neighborhood reveals more and more empty houses in what was a very tidy, well cared for working class neighborhood only just a couple of years ago. We know of people who mailed their keys into the bank and left just to get out, not because they couldn't afford their house payment, but because they wanted to move and couldn't sell their home. They just left, abandoned their home, and moved to another state, people who had worked and paid their bills their entire lives. At one time this would have been unthinkable.

I think this shows that we now have average people demonstrating they no longer feel invested in the system, who are feeling like the whole thing has been a rigged game and that maybe they no longer feel so obligated to play by the rules.

[Jack_DeLeon]

40. Because some people are cowards...

and they are afraid of having to decide on their own when they will have to take up arms to protect what they believe in. We are all free men and ultimately that decision is up to each of us individually.

[mitchum]

41. Because mice are afraid to bell the cat

[bemildred]

43. We still have something to lose?

Or we think we do?