Lithium Ion / Battery technology Leapfrogged by... Ultracapacitors...300 mile range per charge...

[masmdu]

'Electrical Energy Storage Units' (Ultracapacitors)

The energy density is 1.0 MJ/kg (existing commercial supercapacitors typically have an energy density of around 0.01 MJ/kg, while lithium ion batteries have an energy density of around 0.54–0.72 MJ/kg).

EEStor says that its patented system is a nontoxic, safe, and lower-cost alternative to conventional electrochemical battery technologies, offering ten times the energy density of lead-acid batteries. The company also claims that its system allows rapid and virtually unlimited charging and discharging without significant degradation of the unit.

A five-minute charge should give the capacitor sufficient energy to drive a small car 300 miles (The first Ultracapacitor car is due out in 2009 by Zenn)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEstor



News about ultracapacitors compared to Lithium-Ion

http://www.naturalnews.com/023063.html

Google "EEstor" for more.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

1. I hope this is true. If it is, it will change the world.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. I am somewhat skeptical. Once they are in common use, then

I'll feel more hopeful.

[tech3149]

5. The technology has been in use for decades

"supercaps" have been used for memory and programming backup in electronics equipment since the late 80's. They were then adopted by the mobile audio freaks to avoid adding a separate power system for their ear splitting super bass amps. I've got some in my parts bins that were first generation that work as well as the day they were made.

[Occulus]

7. I'm less skeptical after reading the end of the Wiki on the company

Partnerships

...

On January 9, 2008 Lockheed-Martin signed an agreement with EEStor for the exclusive rights to integrate and market EESU units in military and homeland security applications.<20> This was widely seen as lending a great deal of credibility to the company and its technology; ZENN, who had been taking flak for their investment in EEStor, saw their stock increase by 28%.<21> Lockheed has not yet tested prototypes, but did tour EEStor's facility and analyzed their technology and methodology. Lockheed was "very impressed" with EEStor, noting "they are taking an approach that lends itself to a very quick ramp-up in production." The two companies look to complete joint product testing over the course of 2008.

[DaLittle Kitty]

4. AGREED, I Will Alert John Russell to Incorporate this into his Energy Platform NOW!

www.johnrussellforcongress.com :)

[mainegreen]

3. Skeptical, but something like this would be nice.

If it could be implemented safely.

[Lance_Boyle]

6. how impact-reistant are they?

And under what circumstances might they go boom in the absence of an impact? Capacitors can and do go "pop" sometimes.

[tridim]

9. That's pretty important for caps..

They can discharge just as fast as they're charged. Electrocution would be the major issue.

[Schema Thing]

13. We'll test them on prisoners first.

I'm seeing an all electric prison racing circuit, sort of like the prison rodeos.

[Arctic Dave]

14. That was my first thought too.

It would be like working on a microwave before letting the "cap" dissipate.

[formercia]

10. How many MegaJoules does it take to rate a BOOOM!!!!?

And when does a supercapacitor cease being a supercapacitor and become a battery?

[Tesha]

30. Never.

> And when does a supercapacitor cease being a supercapacitor and become a battery?

Never. By definition, a battery stores electricity through electrochemical
processes. A capacitor stores electricity solely by piling up electrons on
the plates of the capacitor; no chemical changes take place. That's
why supercaps have lifetimes in the millions of cycles whereas
batteries tend to be "a thousand deep cycles" or so.

A megajoule is a pretty good boom, BTW.

Tesha

[formercia]

33. I took 150 Joules once

At 50KV. It sent me to the Hospital.

[phantom power]

8. They keep backpedaling. It's been "next year" for 3 years now.

[C_U_L8R]

11. Let me know when they invent a flux capacitor

I got places to go :-)

[AwakeAtLast]

12. Do you have a Delorean?

:rofl: :spray:

Happy trails! :hi:


:rofl:

[C_U_L8R]

15. If they can come up with a 1.21 gigawatt flux capacitor

I'll figure out a way to get a Delorean : - )))

[jmowreader]

24. Here's "where" to get one, all you need is some money

http://www.delorean.com

He's got new ones, used ones, parts for them...everything a growing boy could want.

[hunter]

16. I'm trying to figure out how this "five minute charge" might work...

Electric currents and voltages like that are rather difficult to confine. One slightly damaged connector and you've got yourself a lightning bolt arc-welder from hell.

[Tesha]

31. That "five minute recharge" is a pretty impressive claim.

I just did some back-o'-the-envelope math and what I came up
with is a 10 HP car requiring ~2500 amps at 300 volts (740 KW!)
to achieve a 5 minute recharge. And proportionally more as the
power of the motor rises from my rather-wimpy estimate of 10 HP.

The math:

Let's assume 10 HP and 60 MPH. (I think this is optimistic; I think
you'll need somewhat more than 10HP to maintain that speed.)

That means we need 5 hours to travel 300 miles so 50 HP Hours.

That means we need 50 * 740 = 37 Kilowatt Hours to travel 300
miles.

Now we have five minutes to recharge that supercapacitor (that
once contained 37 KW Hours of power). And just to show I'm
trying to look on the bright side, let's assume that the whole
show operates at 100% charge-in-to-charge-out efficiency.

37 KW Hours transferred in 5 minutes means we need a power
level of 740 kilowatts to transfer 37 KW Hours in 1/20 of an
hour. Let's take a nice, handy bus voltage of 300 volts. That
means we need a current of 2467 amps. That requires cables
that are much bigger in diameter than your arm*. Well, maybe
the car will recharge using 3,000 volts and 247 amps instead,
and one hell of an interesting connector/interlock design.

Either way, this doesn't sound very practical to me.

Tesha



* Using conductors insulated to operate at 90°C, you need 10
"0000" conductors (with a half-inch of solid copper for each
conductor) out and ten more conductors back in. You and
I together probably *COULD NOT LIFT* that cable to attach
it to a car for "refueling".

[jgraz]

17. Once again, why do they have to make green cars so fucking ugly?

THIS is what they're going to wrap that beautiful piece of technology in:




:puke:

[LibertyorDeath]

18. Wow!

Rec!!

[tomreedtoon]

19. Do you know that large capacitors can explode?

Ask around any laser lab in a college. There's a reason they keep the capacitors in a metal cage separate from the experimental lab, and it is only partially for shock value. The electrolyte (the liquid/paste put between the "plates" of the capacitor) can dry out, overheat, go bad. Kaboom! Like a grenade.

[slampoet]

21. I seem to recall gasoline being explosive also.

There will always be people complaining about dangers of new tech.

They are usually in league with or getting their info from the money of old tech interests.


For example AC vs DC and Tesla VS Edison.

[tkmorris]

22. Well sure

But sometimes there is actual danger too, it isn't always just hype. It's a legitimate question.

[slampoet]

23. I don't doubt that there some dangers but lets face it.......

When you factor in the cancer from oil production, the death of soldiers acquiring oil, the exhaust cancers, the cancers from pumping the gas and it seeping into drinking water, the (few) explosive collisions, and the other hidden deaths.........

.....i really don't see how the capacitors could bring a worse death rate per 100,000 people of general population.



I am reminded of the people who oppose Wind Power because they say a windmill blade could fall of the windmill.

Meanwhile their entire neighborhood is getting cancer from the local Coal Plant.


As Americans we really need to separate the few spectacular news-gruesome deaths that make the news from the 1000's of hidden deaths we are already suffering.

[jmowreader]

26. Gasoline doesn't explode on its own

You have to do something to make gasoline explode. Usually, in the case of cars, you need to have a horrific accident that breaches the fuel tank or a fuel line.

Huge caps, especially if you dump electricity into them as fast as a "five minute charge" will require, tend to explode all on their own. Huge capacitors are NOT a new technology, and having them explode on you is not a new problem.

[slampoet]

28. Isn't that what resitors are for?

[jmowreader]

32. No.

I think you're thinking of a "bleeder resistor." This is installed in the power supply to discharge the filter capacitors after you turn the power off--that way the technicians don't get fried when they try working on the unit.

You know what these caps would REALLY be good for? I read the supercapacitor article on Wikipedia, where it suggests they'd be good on regenerative braking systems. I think they'd be great as a "battery buffer." Put about 5000 farads worth of capacitance between the battery and the rest of the car, and it could handle the sudden demands placed on the battery better than the battery alone could.

[snooper2]

27. It's more of a pop, like a bottle rocket..

:rofl:


I'm sure the case around will be made strong enough...

[guyalapatie]

20. Prius compatibility?

I'd love to be able to put this into my car. But knowing the auto industry, I'll have to get a home kit and do it myself.

Who want to get their hands dirty? Everyone who is lucky enough to have a tinkerer dad like me better clear his calendar in 2009. :)

[dysfunctional press]

25. this is exactly why we opted not to buy a new car at this time...

even the most gas-efficient vehicles out there could be made obsolete within a few years with the right technological advances.

[masmdu]

29. Me too (nm)