Our American torturers didn't do it for information, but for FUN.

[Philosoraptor]

When rumsfeld and the other torturer enablers gave the o.k. to torture p.o.w.'s, it wasn't 'to protect America', it was for fun. They see torturing captured Muslims as big fun, entertainment for monsters, torture for what it was originally designed for, an enjoyable pastime.

They wanted to torture prisoners at Gitmo not for gathering information, but for personal thrills. It's fun to torture a helpless, captured enemy, plain and simple.

Tell me I'm wrong here.

[bullimiami]

1. its a long standing fact that torture will not provide reliable information.

i think they did it for fun and for propaganda.

they knew you could get whatever you wanted from tortured prisoners and the did.
they have used this in their propaganda campaign against their real enemies, the american public.

WE are the only real threat to their them and they know it.

Its as dirty as anything done by russia or china or east germany or any of those countries we hold up as an anathema to the 'american way'.
well the 'american way' is apparently just the same but were still living in a fantasy world.

[Philosoraptor]

2. Much of our 'war intelligence' came from torture.

And NOTHING anyone says under torture can be considered reliable or truthful, you'll say any fucking thing to make it stop.

[ShortnFiery]

3. I believe that some have "pickled their brains" through too much "24" and "MI5" viewing.

An interrogation, by it's design should be "an conversation" back and forth.

A skilled interrogator develops "a relationship" with the detainee in order to glean information over a series of interviews.

Unfortunately, the right wing *testosterone* laden FICTIONAL shows suggest that being "an asshole" with a prisoner is The Way to glean useful information. As we ALL know that "ticking time bomb" situation is extremely rare. YET, everyone seemingly wishes to swagger and abuse other human beings ... just like their FICTIONAL hero "Jack Bauer."

My conclusion: Those who TORTURE prisoners are sick individuals who attempt to make up for their inadequate personalities by exerting physical power over those they deem "less than human." However, I blame THE LEADERSHIP, both civilian and military, for encouraging the culture that makes such atrocities possible.

[Philosoraptor]

5. They've become what our grandfathers fought against in the 1940's.

It's too horrible to even contemplate it, but, when you realize that grandpa prescott bush helped finance Hitler, and profited from the slave camp victims labor and lives, and when you see how they coldly explain why torture is cool now, it makes your flesh crawl.

And you're right, more information can be gotten once a prisoner of war realizes he ISN'T going to be tortured, but treated to the Geneva Conventions mercy. They only torture cause it gives them an erotic thrill that can be gotten no other legal way.

[fasttense]

4. The purpose of torture has never been to get accurate information

From the Christian tortures of heretics and witches to the torture of Prisoners of Wars and occupations, torture has been all about terrorizing the people. Making them afraid of the government or the Christian church (in the case of torture of witches).

When the Chilean Dictator Pinochet implemented Milton Friedman's and the Chicago School Boys Free Trade economic policies he used torture of Union and Liberal Leaders to make the masses afraid. It keeps the masses quiet so they can do what ever they want. It is the same here in the US. The torture is aimed at us. It is meant to terrorize We the People. It is meant to keep you quiet.

[Philosoraptor]

6. Apparently terror of torture is working wonderfully in Iraq

Ethical treatment of p.o.w.'s USED to be the American way, but in 2000 all bets were off.

[madokie]

9. and you are right too

[iamjoy]

7. Well, It's Both

The water boarding and so forth, I think for most of our people performing it, it was business. Maybe a bit of a power rush, but I don't think all of these people doing the harsh interrogation techniques are sadists by nature. They stopped thinking of the detainee as human as a defense mechanism to do their job. They justify what they're doing by convincing themselves it's necessary to defend America.

Some of the atrocities are different. This is the stuff that many Right Wingers likened to pranks, fraternity type hazing, etc. Well, I think in many cases the people doing it were having fun - that's why so much of it has that aspect of being silly. I mean, all of us know that simulated drowning is torture. Some may deny it or justify it as necessary, but there's no doubt about what that is. But naked pyramid? How can that possibly be used to get information? Pulling out fingernails, you can hope to get information. Panties on head? What's the point if not one person's idea of fun - doing it for the hell of it. Doing it because they can. I don't think these people are all sadists by nature, either. I think again, they have stopped thinking of the detainees as human and/or don't believe they are really hurting the person. "Oh come on, we were just messing with him." "It's a stressful job, we were just blowing off a little steam, where's the harm?"

Maybe I'm wrong about these people being sadists. Understand that it doesn't come from a desire to defend torture or cruel treatment, but because it's too disturbing to me to think of that people being so cruel and inhuman by nature. I'd rather believe these people were under severe stress or somehow convinced they were doing the right thing, or at least not really doing any harm.

[madokie]

8. I would say you are right on