For those of you who claim Russert was a great Journalist----

[trumad]

or claim that he was moderate in his political views----

I only ask that you click on the link and read the best documented history of Tim Russert's work. If you can come back with the same view of Russert after reading Bob Somerby's Russert archives, then your view of journalism in mho is wrong.


http://www.google.com/custom?q=tim+russert&sa=Google+Search&cof=AH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3Ac32a032061318778%3B&domains=dailyhowler.com&sitesearch=dailyhowler.com

[jefferson_dem]

1. I'm sure there are a few grave dancers over at freeperville as well who say he was a liberal hack.

That's the point.

The man has passed. Let it go.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. I am willing to bet 4000 families aren't willing to let it go

[jefferson_dem]

7. Who gave you the authority to speak on their behalf?

The grief and loss Tim's family is feeling now is the same grief and loss the families of those who paid the ultimate price in Iraq have felt. Shame on you for trivializing that.

[trumad]

13. Let's see---- war enabler who helped get their loved one killed...

Yeah I betcha they won't let it go....

[michreject]

25. You think that Russert had any control over Bush's decision???

Delusional come to mind.:rofl:

[El Pinko]

28. Shills like Russert passed on POS Bush's lies and propaganda without scrutiny or questioning-

by doing so, they actively aided the administration in mustering public support for an illegal, immoral and completely unnecessary war.

He was not the only one, or the worst one, but he was definitely one of POS Bush's media enablers.

[michreject]

32. I don't think that Bush cares about what the media thinks

or what the public wants or thinks. They provide no input to his decisions.

[El Pinko]

36. That's not what I'm saying at all.

Bush would not have been able to invade Iraq without public opinion on his side.

The complaint press gave him that. The congress went along with Bush on the war not because it was the right thing to do, but because at the time, 70% of the public supported it.

It doesn't matter what Bush wanted. The congress controls the purse strings, and had public opinion been 70/30 AGAINST the war, the congress might have put on the brakes.

People like Russert GAVE Bush the public support he needed on a silver platter by being stenographers instead of journalists.

How you can absolve these people of any sort of complicity is beyond me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. But they carry water for them

Do you think for one minute that Nixon would have resigned if Woodward and Bernstein hadn't exposed the Watergate scandal? If newspapers had not printed the Pentagon Papers do you think we would have ended the Vietnam War when we did?

But today's media - with Tim Russert at the head of the pack - ignored the Downing Street Minutes. And we went to war.

You need to connect the dots here. Russert was no saint.

[Dreamer Tatum]

42. Then make a list - NOW - of every enabler, so we can just check them off when they die

I mean, what the hell is the point? He's DEAD. Is the idea that if enough people gather to condemn him for having the
temerity to not walk in lockstep with your views, that YOU'LL feel more important somehow? I think that must be it.

Russert didn't have anything to do with the war. We were going to war no matter what Russert said or did. The war would
have lasted this long no matter what Russert said or did. That he didn't break his pick trying to avoid or end the war doesn't
make him a bad person or make his life less worthwhile.

But there I go, shilling for a shill, I guess. Thank God my passing won't be as public, and thank God I'm going to be cremated
so as to avoid mictur- and masturbation on my gravesite from "liberals" like you.

[michreject]

52. Thank you

Finally someone who understands.

[El Pinko]

53. I'll thank you for not calling me a liberal.

Lots of liberals voted for that stupid war.

Russert and his cohort do share some culpability, even if you think that death somehow absolves them of it.

If there were a viable left in this country, maybe there would not have been a war.

Unfortunately, we're stuck with the republicans and their slightly less evil twins, the democrats.


And I'm not condemning him - I just object the the completely undeserved praise that's being heaped on him, especially here of all places.

Speaking of masturbatory, did you read "Big Russ and Me"? :puke:

[bvar22]

41. Yes!

Russert and a handful of his close friends COULD have stopped the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq.
Television, in the USA, is THAT powerful.

It is possible that without the enthusiastic cheerleading of Russert and his close friends, Bush could not have invaded Iraq.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Shame on you for canonizing one of the men who promoted this war

I find the PREVENTABLE deaths of our troops far more tragic than the death of a journalist who failed to do his job in the lead up to the war.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. what you said, times 10.

He was a cheerleader, not a reporter or journalist. He protected and coddled the administration.

[greyghost]

38. AMEN. He had blood on his hands, PERIOD.

[Eurobabe]

45. real journalists do research and ask questions

journalism in the US is all but dead.

[trumad]

5. Oh horseshit.....

The glorification of the dude is in full gear.... but let it go?

Fuck that..... It's the same old argument--- oh some on the right hated the dude, and some on the left hate the dude----so he must be in the middle. Again---horse fucking shit.

[Mist]

15. I've been amazed at the amounts of glurge expended on Russert. I never thought

he was all that distinguished, plus had a RW slant. SOMETIMES he tossed hard questions at RWers, but not often.

[Mabus]

11. I haven't seen anyone post "I'm so glad Russert is dead"

but I have seen reasonable people say that he wasn't a great journalist and that the fawning over his is over the top. There is a huge difference between dancing on his grave and telling the truth.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. 4000 families grieve

because our media did NOT do its job in the lead up to the war. They failed to ask the tough questions and Russert was one of the worst. Moyers did a beautiful piece on this. He showed Russert the film of Cheney playing him on MTP after literally planting a story in the NY Times and when Russert questioned him, Cheney said "It's in the NY Times, Tim!". Russsert just sat there with a dumb look on his face and didn't even reply. I wanted to choke him.

No way can you watch that and not question what the hell Russert was doing.

He continually carried water for the bush administration. For 7 years.

Please can we stop canonizing this man? My sympathy to his family but he was NO saint.

4000 families grieve because men like Russert didn't do THEIR jobs.

[trumad]

6. Read Somerby and you'll see his bullshit way before that....

During the impeachment and the Gore candidacy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Oh I know

I am just making the point (and not well I admit) that the deaths of our troops are a lot more tragic than Russert's.

[izquierdista]

18. Maybe the upcoming load

Of carrying water for McCain was too much for this one workhorse. :shrug:

[KG]

4. complicit and an enabler of the neo-con agenda.

DUers, he was not on 'your' side. not even a little bit.

[Individualist]

50. Have you noticed

that most of those who are mourning Russert are the ones who support DLC's agenda? I'm not surprised they mourn the passing of one of the cabal's primary propaganda tools.

[BlueManDude]

9. Russert was a font of GOP talking points and spin and Somerby nailed him on it.

His death doesn't change the legacy of his work.

[Mabus]

10. Somerby is the man

I've been a fan of the DailyHowler.com for years. I don't always agree with him but I think he was spot-on about Russert.

As an aside, my husband came home last night and turned on MSNBC just to see what they were saying. Oh man. It was Andrea Mitchell talking about Russert and the '88 election debates. She said that Dukakis was 17 points up in the polls before the debate. Then she mentioned some of the questions she was thinking about asking (issue oriented) but then she remembers that Timmie had his own ideals and came up with the "what if your wife was raped" question that helped sink Dukakis.

[trumad]

12. Somerby is the most underrated blogger of all time....

I too disagree with him at times, but damn, his archives are second to none and when it comes to observations on political writers and political talking heads, he's dead on.

Funny how Andrea admits how Timmy was the master of gotcha questions.

[Mabus]

19. And she was saying it as if it were a good thing

She said that was the one thing from that debate that people remembered. Sadly, she's right. it was a despicable thing to do. I remember watching it and I couldn't believe he did it. It was bullshit and for her to praise him for it is beyond belief.

Yesterday I posted the "do you apologize for the vast right-wing conspiracy" crap he pulled on Hillary during her debate with Lazio in 2000.

One of the things I love about Bob is how he pointed out that Timmie's dad was never called "Big Russ" until Timmie wrote the book. After we read that relevation my husband and I started referring to Timmie was 'Lil Russ.

Then, there's one the major crimes that he did which was change the format of MTP from a panel of actual journalists asking the guests about policies to a show that did little more than propel Timmie to the front and center. He took a great show and made it all about himself.

All I know is that I did not like Reagan when he was alive and I did not mourn his passing. Nor did I get all teary-eyed and to try to think of reasons to admire him. I don't like either of the Bushes and I will not mourn their passing. Nor will I get all teary-eyed and try to think of reasons to like them when they go. With all that said, I didn't like Timmie when he was alive and I will be damned before I get teary-eyed and fawn over him. Nor do I see any reason to waste my time now trying to find reasons to like him.

To me, Timmie was an inauthentic, out-of-touch elitist who used his platform to try to portray himself as just one of the guys. You know, just like he tried to portray every Dem presidential nominee/candidate that he could.

[trumad]

24. Great post

I simply could not stand him ..... because I could see through every single question he would ask. It was so obvious to me that he had an agenda and he was a master of conducting it and sailing it over the head of Moran America.

[drbtg1]

26. I think it was Bernard Shaw that asked that question

not Russert

[Mabus]

27. According to Andrea it was Russert's idea

So take it up with her.

And, it just shows how Lil Russ pulled the strings and had everyone else dance. That is frightening.

[drbtg1]

33. No, I don't have to take it up with her

Shaw was the moderator. Shaw asked the question. Shaw was working at CNN.

Mitchell was at NBC, just like Russsert. Mitchell was on the panel.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/debates/history.story/1988.html

Maybe Russert expressed admiration for Shaw's question, but there no way Russert was going to help someone at CNN when an NBC coworker was working the same debate.

[Mabus]

35. Well Andrea said it was Russert's idea

and she said it on live television last night. It was Timmie's idea according to Andrea.

[drbtg1]

40. If you are refering to MSNBC at 8:28pm EST last night, YOU ARE WRONG.

I Tivo'ed the show. I just checked it. Mitchell was on with Olbermann. She said Tim had many great ideas for the debate instead of wonkish questions and that they had little time to prepare for the debate. She said the only memorable question was the rape question, BUT SHE DID NOT SAY IT WAS RUSSERT'S IDEA.

Are you thinking of another Mitchell appearance last night or are you simply mistaken?

[Mabus]

47. No, I am mistaken and you are correct

I apologize to you and admit I was wrong.

edited to add: that I do still find it disturbing that Andrea was wanting to ask substantive questions and it appears that Russert had other ideas.

[drbtg1]

48. In that case, I apologize for the caps. Bad form on my part.

I will admit I was overzealous.

I like to think DU places a high value on the truth and I'm glad that was the end result here.

I agree with what you found disturbing about the "substantive questions".

[Mabus]

49. When I'm wrong, I will admit it. Thank you for providing facts

No one's perfect. I know that I'm not.

Thank you for a gracious acceptance of my apology and kudos to you for going that extra mile and proving me wrong. I spent some time going through clips on youtube but couldn't find this particular clip. I have Countdown recorded and when you mentioned it I fast forwarded to that time and saw you were right.

And no need for you to apologize. I don't blame you. I was clearly wrong and you were clearly right. You had a reason to be adamant. I also realize this a forum and I don't take things personally unless they actually are.

Once again, thanks for proving me wrong and providing real, concrete information.

[parasim]

14. If the MSM had a de facto leader, it was Russert.

At least that's the way I always thought of the man. Sure, he was a great guy, family man, great dad/son and all that, but when it came to his job, I always thought of him as the President of the Mainstream Media Club.

[speedoo]

37. That's how I'll always remember him. Mr. MSM.

I won't dance on his grave, but I will never pretend that he was not an Iraq War enabler.... with Brokaw, one of the most guilty, IMO.

[KharmaTrain]

17. Russert Wasn't A Journalist

He was the political equivelent of a sports reporter...a guy who hung around the locker rooms, lived and died the stats and focused on the players rather than on the game itself. He lived off the gossip and "conventional wisdom"...the personalities of the beltway rather than any particular issue. Someone made the interesting observation that Russert always threw out tough questions, but then he'd never follow up...or let political spin suffice for a real answer. He was also connected into the beltway power elite and to get ahead in this world you "use and be used"...to "get" the important interview or source...to get your calls returned and to be a "player" in the beltway power and media games.

This man came of age as teevee news transformed from network to cable...from a loss-leader to a profit center...from information to entertainment. Russert was the creation of the 24/7 news cycle where the "global village" or teevee news became more and more reliant on "analysis" and punditry as it did on actual news or information. Russert stood in the middle of this electronic world and played weathervane for whatever prevailing political winds were blowing in the beltway. He wasn't out there to record history, he was there to try to make it.

Personally, I couldn't really peg where his political views were as much as I feel he masked them to play the role in the corporate media circus world that was his home.

[Minimus]

22. You say it best

he did "play the role in the corporate media circus world that was his home."

My sentiments exactly.

[speedoo]

39. Excellent post.

Thanks... I agree completely.

[KG]

43. he wanted to be one of 'them'.

[calimary]

51. This is a Great Post. The political equivalent of a sports reporter.

That's very insightful, KharmaTrain! That just really pegs it. He did like the elbow-rubbing part. A LOT. Access, with people at his level, is EVERYTHING. And PERCEPTION OF ACCESS is even more. But he didn't have much of a problem with the perception. It was very real. He ran with some VERY big players, and enjoyed it, I'm certain. Hey, I would, too, I suspect. To be widely considered both inside and outside the bush administration as THE Go-To Guy? Unfortunately, that lofty position was a double-edged sword. I bet he had EVERYBODY'S private phone number. Unfortunately, they all had his, too.

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. Is that the one that has him saying, "Integrity is for paupers?"

[BlooInBloo]

23. GRIEVE LOUDER!!!!

[CODemocrat]

29. Oh Pleeze.........

get over it.

[BlooInBloo]

31. SOB HARDER!!!!

[Berry Cool]

30. Bob Somerby is an ass. He thinks Keith Olbermann is a hack.

I don't think Russert was a saint by any means, but if I read what Somerby has to say about him, I'd probably come away wanting to canonize the man. So I'd just as soon avoid it.

[hlthe2b]

34. Bill Moyers is a great journalist;

At the other extreme, William Kristol is a partisan liar without journalistic talent. Tim Russert was somewhere in between. Far closer, perhaps, to Kristol these past 7 years than to Moyers, but still somewhere in between.

Most things in life are not a dichotomy, but fall on a continuum. Complex thinking, folks. Another thing that separates progressives from RW autocrats. We are capable of seeing the shades of grey.

[OneDemsConscience]

44. Also check out this Yglesias piece--gets at the essence of his style...

http://www2.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0712.yglesias.html