Another shit stain on Bush's presidency.

[ccharles000]

Last year the congress passed the Matthew Shepard Act which would add sexual orientation and others to the federal hate crimes list. It will be ten years after Matthew Shepard was brutally murdered in Wyoming this October. GW had a chance to do something good for once but choose not to. Hopefully when Obama is president he will sign this bill and many others to advance the rights of myself and my community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Bush is one GIANT shitstain. That this bill wasn't signed is a travesty.

[sam sarrha]

7. he has the Fecal touch, everything he ever did turned something to shit..

[ccharles000]

15. I agree.

[DangerDave921]

2. As far as I know

Killing a person is still illegal isn't it? Whether gay, straight, or bi. And the killers of any person -- no matter what the victim's status -- still go to jail.

Personally, I think hate crime legislation is a dreadful idea. I've never understood why killing someone of protected status is somehow worse than bashing a white male (like me) on the head with a brick to steal my wallet. Dead is dead.

[Midlodemocrat]

6. Okay, I'll bite.

As a white, heterosexual female, there aren't gangs of people who hate me just because of who I am. The same cannot be said at all for the GLBT community. They are hated by some simply because they exist.

[DangerDave921]

8. OK

And my comment to that is, "So?" No matter what the status of the victim, we still punish the perpetrator. If you kill a minority or a gay person, you go to jail or get the death penalty. Murder is already illegal. People talk about hate crime legislation like if it doesn't get enacted, these awful killers will go free. They won't.

The scumbags who killed James Byrd went to jail and/or death row. The system worked. Even without hate crime legislation.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. Missed the point. GLBT persons are greater targets simply

because of who they are. So, it makes sense if they are greater targets, that there be protections in place to prevent them from becoming a statistic.

Frankly, what harm does it do to hate crime legislation? I don't see a downside.

[DangerDave921]

11. prevent?

How does hate crime legislation prevent anything? If assaulting, raping, killing, etc. is already illegal, then how does hate crime legislation further prevent such crimes?

The downside? It gives the power to the government to punish thought versus conduct. It allows the government to intrude on a person's mindset (including what books or movies that person may watch) to determine motive rather than proving the crime.

And it also is unequal in that it mandates that the life of certain people is somehow more valuable, or deserving of protection.

[gratuitous]

12. Yeah, dead is dead

So, whether the body hits the ground because he was breaking into your house, or for whatever, every death should result in life without possibility of parole, or a death sentence. Your choice. Because dead is dead, and circumstances don't matter. Hit a jaywalker with your car? You're done. Dead is dead.

Hmmmmm.

Nope, it still sounds like a stupid argument.

[DangerDave921]

13. Wrong

I did not say that all death -- no matter what circumstances -- is equal. That would be silly. Of course hitting someone by accident in my car is not the same as intentionally killing someone.

I'm talking about intentional violence. To me, if a criminal kills me to steal my wallet, that is just as horrific and vile as killing a gay person because he's gay. Or killing a black person because he's black. In that context, dead is dead, no matter what the underlying motivations for the killing.

And murder is still illegal, including the murder of minorities.

[gratuitous]

14. No, I looked back at your post

It concluded with "Dead is dead." Taking your nonsensical argument to its logical conclusion makes it look quite silly indeed. I'm sorry it turned out that way for you.

[DangerDave921]

16. Way to debate the issue!

[gratuitous]

17. Thanks

It's always humiliating to get chumped by your own words, isn't it?

As for the "issue," we make distinctions all the time about deaths by misadventure. It doesn't just reduce down to the simplistic "dead is dead." As a society, we consider all sorts of aggravating and mitigating factors, and a lot of folks think that a killing meant to instill fear in a wider community due to the victim's status in that community is an aggravating factor.

[DangerDave921]

18. LOL

Humiliated? Ha! You know full well I said "dead is dead" in the context of an intentional murder, since hate crimes do not apply to accidents. So you're setting up a straw man argument.

But I see your larger point, i.e., instilling fear in the community. I agree aggravating factors and mitigating factors can be considered during sentencing, depending on the depravity of the crime. ANY crime. I still do not believe that certain members of society deserve special status with respect to violent crimes.

And I have other bases as well to object. As a matter of proof, I think we're on dangerous ground to try to ascertain a person's mental state in committing a crime, i.e., detecting an underlying "hateful" motive. Isn't all crime hateful in the sense that it violates the victim and the society? If a white man rapes a black woman (or vice versa) is it a hate crime? Or just a rape?

I also see a very real possibility of mis-use of the statute, and select application of the statute by over-zealous prosecutors.

[Puglover]

3. I made myself a promise.

And that is after 2/20/09 I will never think about GWB again. I'm not sure how successful I'll be with that but I'm going to do my best to put that cretin out of my mind for good.

[OhioChick]

5. Unfortunately, You won't be able to....

As you'll still have daily reminders of all of his fuck-ups for some time to come. Iraq, Afghanistan, the Economy, the on-going Housing/Credit crisis, global warming, the downfall of health care........are just to name a FEW that will take quite some time to "fix."

[sharesunited]

4. Bush sided with fundamentalist evangelicals on this one.

They consider a severe beating to be a message from God.

Hate the sin and kill the sinner.

[ColbertWatcher]

10. Damn, it's been 10 years already!?

Wow.

That is embarrassing.

The GOP-controlled media has been making a big deal about our convention landing on the 45th (?) anniversary of the March on Washington, when Martin Luther King, Jr. delivered his "I Have A Dream" speech.

I hope someone has the balls to mention who organized the march.

[Uncle Joe]

19. At some point it stops becoming a stain. n/t