I'm stunned - an SUV gets nearly same gas mileage as a Scion?

[Rosemary2205]

I have by a miracle fallen into enough money to have a newer lift van made. I'm thinking of Ford Freestyle, since it is union made in Chicago and due to a happy anomoly with the interior styling the front door size, I can have a lift put in just for me on the driver's side and still have the rest of the car available for mobile passengers. And on the times I need the old Econoline with seating for 5 wheelies I can use it.

Anyways I'm looking here http://www.fueleconomy.gov and found out a dinky little 4 cylinder Scion only gets 2 mpg better than Freestyle 6 cylinder SUV.

I'm stunned at how low the mileage is on these little cars and I have to wonder why all the bitching about SUV's -- the little cars, with only a few exceptions, aren't enough better to warrant all the hooplah. Good God sedan Toyota Avalon mileage is WORSE than the SUV Freestyle.

We REALLY need to be having an absolute riot in the streets about both RELIABLE AND ACCESSIBLE public transport and better fuel economy on ALL vehicles.


Edit to add, not to mention household appliance that aren't sucking electricity when turned off, smaller, more efficient housing etc etc etc.

[hlthe2b]

1. Well, a year or so ago, it was revealed that the MPG standards

were screwed and/or doctored and that none of the MPGs posted were accurate. So, I tend to question any findings that have a far heavier six cylinder vehicle more gas stingy than a 4 cylinder lightweight compact... But, that's just me.\\

Congrats on your $$ windfall and good luck with your decision.

[still_one]

5. The posted MPGs are now pretty much as stated on the sticker

based on what you have said they required more accurate reporting

In fact they give a range and an average, and it is NOT unreasonable, and very close to reality

[CRF450]

37. Um, from my experience, the EPA is rating fuel milage really low

Most autos can easily get better mpg than the new 08 EPA numbers. They rated my Dodge Dakota 13/18 when I actually get around 16mpg on average and have gotten 21mpg on the interstate. Its the same way for my Trans Am, they rate it 17/26 while I actaully average 22mpg and on the interstate it got 31mpg. The sticker that came with rates it 19/28.

I believe the old ratings were more accurate, and because of a vocal minority complaining about getting worse than the old EPA numbers, they had to change it all. Believe it or not todays engines are getting more effecient, but cars are getting so loaded up with safety features and all these cool little gadgets that weighs'em down, its not because of more powerful "monster v8's". Hell, the new Corvettes have over 400hp now, and can easily get 30mpg/HWY and average in the low 20's.

[NMDemDist2]

2. my 2003 6 cyl GM SUV gets 20.8 combined MPG

I was looking at some of the other small cars and they amazed me how little you gained.

My old 1991 Buick gets over 26MPG combined and it's a full sized sedan! we'll need to replace it soon and the newer cars (unless you get a Prius) just almost don't justify the resources needed to make them

:shrug:

[still_one]

6. If people just decreased their speed by 5 - 10 mph, they would realize

a significant savings over time

I doubt most will though

[elocs]

25. On a Memorial weekend trip to Chicago on the Interstate I found most people driving

at least 5 mph slower than even last December. It was noticeably slower to me.

[AndyTiedye]

26. Too Dangerous To Drive Slow When Everyone Else is Going Fast

If you want to drive the speed limit, you have to stay in the right lane with the trucks, and then when the right lane goes away, you have to merge into the faster traffic anyway.

People see this and think it means this

[taterguy]

50. I commute at 15 mph on my bike

If you think I'm gonna plod along at 5 mph you're fucking nuts.

[Warpy]

8. My old truck got just under 30 on the highway

and my new econobox gets a hair over 40. Both were 4 cylinder vehicles.

The difference is weight.

I can see a Scion getting crappy mileage, but only with the yuppie package of automatic doors and windows, automatic seats, and all the other crap they put on it to call it "loaded."

"Loaded" means it's going to be heavier and your mileage will go down the toilet.

Still, the only way to find out what kind of mileage you're getting is to check it in real life. Those EPA tests are as Enronized as the rest of this government.

[still_one]

10. You are right, weight is extremely significant. That is why the hybrid SUVs

and Camery SUVs only get a little over 30mpg, because the weight undoes some of the advantage of the two engine synergy

[depakid]

32. Hybrid SUV's don't get 30 MPG!

More like 20.

Camry's spec out at 33/34.

[NickB79]

48. The Ford Escape Hybrid does

But it is the exception to the rule so far.

[Lorien]

40. My 14 year old Camry gets 27/35

about the same as a new Corolla! Makes no sense to me.But every extra mile counts these days, so I'm waiting for a plug in Prius to come onto the market before I think about getting anything new.

[still_one]

3. If you are looking for good millage the Toyota Corolla. You will get about 30 mpg

same for the Civic

Both cars are not as small as you think

In fact the Corolla has been redesigned for 2008, and is quite comfortable

Right now the hybrids, i.e. Prius and Civic hybrids are hard to justify their 5 to 7K price premium

[notesdev]

7. I have one

I get ridiculously good gas mileage. I can go from DC to NYC and back again on one tank.

[still_one]

9. It looks like a slim Camary, and the stats appear quite impressive to me

I bet you are getting close to 30 mpg without trying to hard

Anyway, very cool

[notesdev]

11. Mine's a 1998 model

I definitely do better than 30mpg. I think I get an average of about 34. And over the past ten years it has never been in the shop for anything but routine maintenance. This thing will probably last me another two decades, assuming we're still using gasoline to run vehicles at that time.

Keeping the tires in good shape is also important. You can lose something like 15% off your gas mileage on underinflated tires alone.

[still_one]

16. Every year you keep it, that is money in your pocket. Good for you /nt

[Rosemary2205]

43. My brother's big Ford Fusion 6 cyl gets 34 average ! Camry is at 30?

Makes no sense at all.

[Beausoleil]

14. As the price of gas keeps going up

you can recoup 5-7K pretty quickly when you get an extra 20MPG, probably less than 3 years @12,000 mi/yr and $4/gal gas.

[still_one]

17. Not really. It has to be a lot more miles than 12000 a year.

At 5 bucks a gallon, at 12000 a year you are saving about 600 to 700 dollars a year

compared to buying a Corolla, and getting about 30-35 mpg without trying, it would take you at least 7 to 8 years to recoup that cost

I have a Prius, and I can tell you the reality of the gas milage is about 40 to 45 mpg without trying.

The math does not justify it now unless you are driving a lot more miles a year

[Beausoleil]

22. You're right

I miscalculated. But the numbers look pretty good if you're going from 20-25MPG to 50MPG. With $5/gal gas you could recoup the difference in about three years.

But who knows what the price of gas will be in three years. Those who buy Priuses now will look pretty smart if the price of gas is $8/gal then. We just don't know what it will be, but it probably will not be less than $4.

[still_one]

30. In the first quarter of next year Honda will be releasing two new hybrids

Toyota will be releasing a Prius which will get about 90 MPG for 2010 so it should be out next year, and as slow as the American car companies have been, you can bet they will either be OEMing Japanese Technology or releasing their own

I fully expect more competition, and that should mean better prices for the consumer

Of course we should work toward alternative energies, because that is the real solution

A lot of the reason for the high energy prices is the phil graham enron loophole bill, that was passed in 2001, and suppported by bush and mccain. It essentialy removes all regulations from futures trading. Ever since that legislation, energy and food prices have shot up much higher than supply and demand dictate.

There is suppossed to be an investigation into it this week

The last president who tried to do something about energy independence was nixon, but he had other issues going on at the time, and it was thrown out the door.

Most of us remember in 2000 how bush made fun of hybrids, and was in Detroit saying Americans don't have to conserve

I personally believe that gas prices are pretty close to where alternative energies are looking more and more feasible

If gas prices go to 8 bucks a gallon in 3 years, the world will go into a global depression

[Beausoleil]

33. I heard April '09 for the Prius III

I agree, and I think that only re-regulating the futures market will stop the mindless increase in oil prices.

We may be in a depression before three years and/or $8/gal anyway.

[still_one]

49. you are right the first quarter of next year, but it will be a 2010 model

from what I heard

[El Pinko]

19. Today's Civic is equivalent to the Accord of a decade or so ago. The Fit is the new Civic.

I think the Fit has the highest mileage of any non-hybrid now.

Still much worse than the Chevy Sprint I used to drive - It got about 50 mpg and was awesome.


For the record, I don't think Scions are all that tiny...

[HughMoran]

31. That's pretty good. My PT Cruiser is clasified as an SUV (lol) but I get 26.5 MPG combined driving

It's actually a station wagon (officially), so I find the SUV classification somehwhat bizzare, though I'm happy with the mileage and 4 doors for the kids & flexibility in storage space (removable seats).

[n2doc]

4. The range is amazing

And you are right, there is no excuse for a small car getting crappy milage. But many do. I tried out a PT cruiser a few weeks ago as a rental, it only got 25 on the highway. I had driven a malibu a few weeks before that which got 34 on the same highway. Just no excuse for it other than crappy engineering.

[El Pinko]

21. Maybe it's because I started driving Toyotas & Hondas in the 80s...

...but I don't see PT Cruisers or Scions as small cars. They are much bigger than the Toyota Corolla hatchback, or the Chevy Sprint, or the Honda Civic I used to drive. They seem quite big and heavy to me. They're just not mammoth like the SUVs.

And what is the deal with 'minivans'? They're as big as full-size vans now.

[lumberjack_jeff]

12. My 2007 Dodge Caliber gets consistently 29-31mpg. EPA says 24-29.

[trof]

13. A couple of years ago we got a Ford Focus wagon.

Traded our '99 Dodge Caravan.
Net gain: 2 mpg

Last November we traded the Focus in on a Prius.
Net gain: About 30 mpg.
Now yer talkin'.

[Raejeanowl]

15. So Many Factors Like How You Drive It

People never believe me when I say my gas mileage on an Explorer is the same as it was on a Plymouth wagon. They see SUV and can't think outside the stereotype. I keep it tuned, make my routes efficient, and don't drive like a maniac.

Anyone who still objects can have the privilege of paying for my next car.

[NNN0LHI]

24. What mileage do you get with your Explorer?

I am getting 16.8 average with a 2000 Limited V-8 AWD with every option available at that time including skid plates. The thing will go though just about anything in the winter weather. And the heater will melt you in sub-zero temperatures. Still runs like new. Best vehicle I ever owned. I imagine by the time I need another vehicle in 4 or 5 years it will probably be a hybrid SUV like an Escape.

And I never need to rent box trucks to bring my purchases like plywood and other big stuff home.

Like you I keep it in top notch running condition and don't drive like a nut. I don't drive it a lot so gas prices are not that important to me. I ordered it new in late 1999 an it has about 77,000 miles on it now. I use it mostly in winter which we have plenty of.

Don

[RiverStone]

18. My 1991 Honda CRX gets 45 mpg

Sold my pickup - minor lifestyle changes. If I want to move wood, I borrow a truck.

[DS1]

20. A freestyle is barely an SUV. It's more like a Subaru, but most importantly

it's not even CLOSE to the size of SUVS most people bitch about. Things like the Escalade, Tahoe, Expedition, Excursion, X5, etc etc.

:thumbsdown:

[EOTE]

27. It's a crossover, so it's not built upon a truck platform.

But it's fairly similar to the weight of a 6 cylinder X5, both at around 2 tons. The Freestyle is certainly no light weight. It's got around 700lbs on the Escape.

[HughMoran]

34. Yeah, that site classifies my PT Cruiser as an SUV even though it is a station wagon

...so you can't take their classifications too seriously - I wonder what criteria they use when creating their classifications?

[DS1]

35. Whatever then can do to massage US-made mpg ratings, I suspect

[AndyTiedye]

23. Will the Lift Equipment Fit In a Ford Escape Hybrid?

Also union-made (in Kansas City) and rated 32 mpg.

[Rosemary2205]

44. The lift up is about 5" higher and the doorway 3" narrower

doesn't sound like much but make a big difference in both cost and function getting my chair in and out. Freestyle also has much more passenger and cargo space - Escape, I was shocked, is not much larger than Escort was except taller.

[madrchsod]

28. i had a 51 mercury just like this->

i got 25mpg at 65mph... gas was 3 for a dollar back then...

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. I drive one of those "dinky little Scions"

and I get great gas mileage. Double what I got from my SUV.

What was the mileage listed in the report you read?

[dixiegrrrrl]

36. 1993 Toyota Paseo 5 speed

which is simply the sports model of the Tercel
4 cylinder,
gets 40 mpg highway
around 32 "city" ( small town)

Drove it cross country 1999 and 2005, got 40 mpg
drove it fast on 40-80 mile trips on small country roads,
checked mph frequently, got 38-40 mpg.

Small car on outside, very roomy inside, looks like a midget next to most cars in the store parking lot.

Car has been paid off for 9 years, still going strong,
I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

[krispos42]

38. You have to give up a lot to gain a little with fuel mileage

That's the core problem. During the SUV craze of the 90's, the SUVs only got a little bit less MPG than your average car. The overall fuel economy of a first-generation Ford Taurus was only about 20 mpg or so and a Ford Explorer was not that much less, maybe 17 or so. And an Explorer is a lot more versatile than a Taurus. And that is why they sold so well!

Hell, my 20-year-old full-size car with 190,000 miles on it gets 23-24mpg nearly every tank! I use synthetic oil and Bosch "+4" platnium sparkplugs, which helps a lot even though 95% of my driving at highway speeds of up to 80mph.

The Ford Freestyle uses a car-based unibody-style body, which is a fair bit lighter than a truck-based body like on an Explorer. In fact, I think the new Ford Taurus and the Freestyle share the same platform and powertrains, with the Freestyle's made a few inches taller.

[CRF450]

39. My aunt has a Ford Freestyle

Its gotten close to 30mpg on the interstate, but she uasually averages around 24mpg, thats mostly city driving.

[Selatius]

41. I got a 1995 camry 4-cylinder. I get about 29 or 30 mpg in city driving.

I get a bit higher on the interstates, maybe 33 or 34 mpg. There is no excuse that new cars don't get as high a mileage as older cars.

[aikoaiko]

42. The XB is so boxy that it decreases its efficiency.

[FreeState]

45. Mine gets 30 mpg so its still way better than most SUVs n/t

[xartlu]

46. aerodynamics?

Tha Scion has to have to worst areodynamics of any passenger vehicle made short of a Hummer. Just a thought.

[Vickers]

53. I just went and looked it up: it has a drag coeffficient of 0.32

That's not too shabby.

A Hummer H3 is 0.57 :wow::wow::wow:

[NickB79]

47. Scion screwed the pooch royally with the latest models

Their old-style xB (the box), used to get 30 mpg city/34 mpg highway with a 4-cylinder, 109 HP engine. The new model was "upgraded" to use a 160 HP engine, sacrificing fuel economy for performance. And you're right, it barely gets better economy than many crossovers and small SUV's. Hell, the Toyota Rav-4 is right up there with the new-model xB, but with more cargo space and versatility.

Their initial target market with the Scion line was young, hip teens and 20-somethings. Instead, the economy of the vehicles attracted a lot of older people as well, and the low HP of the engines turned off a lot of kids who liked horesepower over all else. Nothing tarnishes the image of a car you're trying to make look cool and youthful like your grandpa driving around in one.

So, they boosted the horsepower and gave all their lineup a more aggressive look to them in order to more precisely target the under-30 crowd. Unfortunately for them, they made their switch at a time when gas prices were spiking, so now their sales aren't as strong as they were before.

My 2005 Scion xA gets a solid 30 city/40 highway. The best I ever did was 48 mpg on a long car ride, all highway driving at night (no traffic) with the cruise set to 55 mph.

[NoGOPZone]

51. The scion isn't so small

it's always had a lot of room inside, and the latest version has also grown on the outside. Of course, the shape that give it its room also harms wind resistance. Also, the latest version had a big increase in engine size. I think the current engine is almost one liter larger than the old. That had a big impact.

[Vickers]

52. Some of these posted mileage figures are....remarkable.

:P

I just went and calculated mine:

351.1 miles / 12.757 gallons = 27.5 mpg

This is a 2000 VW GTI with a supercharged 2.0 liter engine, mostly city miles.