HBO made a movie about my nightmare. It just ended (the

[rzemanfl]

movie that is) the nightmare continues.

[calmblueocean]

1. Well said.

I knew someone else on DU would be feeling the same way...

[SharonRB]

19. As soon as it was over, I came over here

to see what other people had to say about it. Was there a live thread going during the movie?

[calmblueocean]

48. I missed it if there was.

But watching this sure stirred up a lot of angry feelings for me.

So many things could've gone differently than they did.

It still takes my breath away to think that, had the creator of those butterfly ballots chosen a different font size, hundreds of thousands of people would be alive right now instead of dead. It just goes to show that there are no small jobs.

[Trajan]

2. Was it called 'My Nightmare' ?

Or 'Rzemanfl's Nightmare' ?

I dont have HBO and just got in this weekend ... I am guessing I am supposed to know the answer ....

[rzemanfl]

4. It is called "Recount" and recounts the suffering we went through

in Florida before the 8 years of suffering we share with everybody else.

[Politics_Guy25]

5. I'm sure that all of us

consider Florida 2000 and the aftermath over the past 8 years an unimaginable nightmare:(

[Liberal Gramma]

3. I'm angry all over again

It brought back all the feelings of injustice and despair that I felt in 2000. The only good news is that it (rightly) portrayed the Republicans as the devious bunch of swine that they are, and might just kick a few Independents into the Democratic camp.

[rzemanfl]

6. I found myself calling actors vile and abusive names out loud as

I watched.

[Liberal Gramma]

21. Ditto. Good thing there were no small children present at my house.

[SharonRB]

22. Me, too

But especially the real * at the end.

[bdamomma]

85. me too,

especially when they called us Dems the ones who steal elections. I dropped the big f bomb.

Baker was one of the players.

[DesertFlower]

8. i just finished watching it and i'm

feeling really down.

[shireen]

31. me too.

all the lives that have been lost and ruined, the missed opportunities ... it's overwhelming, and it really hurts,

[defendandprotect]

52. Well how did the movie work overall --- will the public understand it when it

is more generally available --- ???

Is it a successful RECOUNT?

[Peregrine Took]

11. I always felt that was when America stopped being a democracy and to

think we all stood by and let it happen. When they got by with that they knew they could do anything and we would be docile.

[defendandprotect]

53. Those in control have long been in control; those who control the past control the future . . .

From the time of "democracy for all" these people knew they were threatened --- but had time.
Power is held in hierarchies --- secret organizations.

The JFK coup was an open act of violence in America by a very powerful and large group of people ---
which was not pursued -- LBJ had the White House and anyone trying to investigate the murder was
met with extreme violence. Ruby's family -- a brother and sister --- were threatened if he didn't
do as he was told or if he tried to tell the truth --- tho he nonetheless did try.

They say in DC, there were a hundred and more killed --- including many lawyers --

Yet people tried over and again to tell the truth ---

With the death of Wm. Buckley some info came tumbling out about the CIA sponsoring thru Howard Hughes CIA/front companies the campaign coffers of certain Senators/Reps they were interesting
in having continue on in Congress --- two of those were Sen. Strom Thurmond and Sen. Gerald Ford!!

Needless to say, they were also targeting many Sens/Reps to move them out of Congress ---

We've had stolen elections since the computers started to come in during the 1960's ---
the steals didn't begin in 2000!!!

See: http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=votescam+the+stealing+of+america&fr=yfp-t-501-s&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

This is the story of two journalists who began investigating election steals in the late 1960's...

[bdamomma]

86. and they shocked us again with 9/11. we cannot let them do it

to us again.

[JerseygirlCT]

7. My husband wondered whether Baker now regrets his

actions.

Obviously did it for his friend. Did he ever realize his friend's kid was a sociopath?

[rzemanfl]

10. That assumes that Baker is not a sociopath too. n/t

[np33]

47. Baker

has his dirty finger prints over a lot of f*cked up things that have taken place in this country. So no I don't think he regrets this or any of his actions.

[defendandprotect]

55. They called him "The Consigliere" . . right? The big fixer . . .

Consigliere?

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-consigliere.htm

In the modern sense of the word, a number of political or social advisors to powerful families could earn the label of consigliere. It is often suggested that the Bush family, whose members include two presidents and a governor, have a consigliere, a veteran Republican politician named James Baker. Baker has held a number of political positions under both presidents named Bush, and in 2006 Baker headed a commission to evaluate the war in Iraq. Baker's advice and professional counseling for the Bush family matches the traditional role of the consigliere.

You have to understand the people you work for and their true aims to be a successful consigliere ---
presumably you have joint interest ---

[Peregrine Took]

14. He is such a bush loyalist I can't imagine he is anything but proud as punch

about his key role in the whole debacle.

[JerseygirlCT]

28. I think the fact that he hosted a first screening of the movie

and has apparently been working on election reform gave him the idea.

I don't know what to think. I can't imagine anyone with a conscience or a brain not feeling he'd have to atone for this for the rest of his days...

[rzemanfl]

32. Republican "election reform" is like date rape in a nice room. n/t

[morningglory]

51. Now that Dems will be in charge, I am sure that the Republics will be

fighting for "fair" elections.

[MountainLaurel]

36. Considering Baker's involvement with Carlyle

And the war in Iraq, I'm guessing the cash flowing into his accounts more than makes up for any occasional twinges of humanity and conscience he should have.

[defendandprotect]

57. Wasn't Baker also defending the Saudis against the lawsuit by the 9/11 families?????

If I remember correctly ---???

[MountainLaurel]

69. You are correct: He was working for the House of Saud

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/13/142531/78


And I had forgotten that he and Poppy were meeting with the Bin Ladens on 9-11:

From The Economist:

ON the day Osama bin Laden's men attacked America, Shafiq bin Laden, described as an estranged brother of the terrorist, was at an investment conference in Washington, DC, along with two people who are close to President George Bush: his father, the first President Bush, and James Baker, the former secretary of state who masterminded the legal campaign that secured Dubya's move to the White House. The conference was hosted by the Carlyle Group, a private equity firm that manages billions of dollars, including, at the time, some bin Laden family wealth. It also employs Messrs Bush and Baker.

http://www.economist.com/books/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1875084

[mountainvue]

45. And to think Baker was a Democrat at one point. n/t

[MountainLaurel]

70. Presumably a Dem of the same ilk as Strom Thurmond n/t

[mountainvue]

74. Haha...Is Baker from the south? He must

be from Texas on second thought.

[TomClash]

9. It was brilliant

I had forgotten the LIEberman "gaffe."

[rzemanfl]

13. There was that whole deal of changing a statute with an

Administrative Rule that just got swept under the carpet with all the other dirt.

[RooferDem]

12. The Katherine Harris caricature was spot on and hilarious.

[rzemanfl]

16. Caricature? I thought it was her clone. n/t

[kentuck]

15. It was sad...

The Democrats were over-powered from the beginning. And he still sits in the White House...

[rusty charly]

17. And the unbelievable capper

when the Supreme Court decision declares, for the first time ever, their ruling carries no precedent. A Supreme Court ruling for a law decision for just one man.

[wtmusic]

63. IMO sometime in the future the ruling will be reversed

Symbolic, of course, but important nonetheless.

Every judgement establishes precedent -- whether the judge wants it to or not. The declaration itself establishes a precedent which places all of American legal theory on shaky ground.

[SharonRB]

18. That was just the beginning of our long national nightmare

I was near tears at the end.

It was very well done, and most of the casting was amazing. Spacey looked nothing like Ron Klaine, though.

[rusty charly]

20. Hey, Sharon.

:(

[SharonRB]

24. Hey, charly

:hi:

That really put me in a down mood, but I'm glad I watched.

[Mabus]

39. At the end?

I was about in tears at the beginning.

It was well done.

[santamargarita]

23. I need a new TV, I threw mine in the street! Goddamn Bush!

-

[rzemanfl]

26. Ah, what the hell, you'll need a new one in February anyway. n/t

[cally]

25. I started yelling and cussing at the TV

The movie brought back all my anger again. They pulled off a coup and we let it happen.

[bdamomma]

87. we cannot let them do this to us again.

that SOB *, I hope to see the day when he gets his just dues, treating Americans they way he has is criminal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. I thought it was great

Made the repukes look just as evil as we always thought they were. Now everyone who watched this movie who didn't pay attention during the recount knows the truth.

:bounce:

[Donna Zen]

29. December 12, 2000

The date that marks my first post on an internet forum, Table Talk. When the decision was issued I was stunned, my husband was working a night shift, and I had no one who could help me make sense of the situation. It was obvious after the weeks of the recount that CNN wasn't telling the truth. "Zen and the Birds of Appetite" by Merton was sitting next to the computer, and thus, I adopted my screen name.

Five members of the Supreme Court committed treason that night by ruling null and void the basic rule of democracy, the will of the people. One of the first actions we took to was to swamp the traitorous Supremes with post cards with a single word written in the message box....SHAME. The WaPo reported that one day O'Conner burst into tears in the lobby of the court....Good!

What a long terrible bloody nightmare.

[rzemanfl]

30. The next day I wore all black to work, including my shirt and tie.

Little did I know how much I was mourning for....

[Donna Zen]

38. We knew it would bad...but

who could have imagined it would be this bad.

Before the coronation in January 2001, someone started a thread at Table Talk where we posted our guesses as to where bush would start his first war. Many people went with Iraq, I pointed out that the bushes like to attack S. America. My vote went to Venezuela. I was wrong.

BTW, the net figured out long before that press that the real problem was with the Duvall over-votes.

[rzemanfl]

42. True, but the Palm Beach votes that went to Buchanan would

have flipped it.

[lordsummerisle]

33. Looks like I picked the wrong week to cancel HBO n/t

[rzemanfl]

34. It is must see TV. n/t

[defendandprotect]

58. You can download it somewhere on the internet --- also . . .

I think Amazon has it --- but hopefully HBO will get this playing somewhere on general TV --- ???

[angrycarpenter]

35. Sad

makes me want a drink. I gave it up three years ago. We cannot allow them to do it again. They will try, Obama will have to run the cleanest campaign ever to avoid attack while The GOP will use every underhanded swiftboating tactic there is. May they all burn in hell for the double standard that they have saddled us with.

On the movie they called it a victory for the rule of law. The law of the jungle maybe. Or the unwritten law that the rich white guys have to win or they will poison the well, scorch the earth and salt the ground.

They believed that they deserved to win no matter what the people said. I will never trust another word of a republican politician, the party is tainted by this crap and no amount of honesty could redeem them in my book.
I hope they enjoy their Bushcheneyroveitis, there is no cure.

[dsc]

46. I was about 8 months sober when it happened

and am a bit over 8 years sober now. There is nothing so bad that a drink won't make it worse.

[rzemanfl]

66. I would have been 15 years sober then, 23 this August. n/t

[Mabus]

37. They didn't mention FAMU

Florida A&M students who protested because of the road blocks and moved precincts.

Overall, I don't think there were any surprises in the movie for me except the comment about Lieberman beginning his 2004 run.

I watched it with four friends and we were all sitting around commenting on it during the movie. Most of the time it would be, "now's about the time that X happened" and then they'd show it.

The biggest disappointment for me was the pass that the media was given. I remember how they ridiculed the Palm Beach voters and went along with the myth that the votes had been counted and recounted. The media got a pass again.

[BlueIris]

54. Yeah, the mainstream media was a non-entity in this film.

Which is...they are as culpable in the travesty as Bush and the boys and the SCOTUS.

Otherwise, good movie.

[rzemanfl]

65. I am wondering if they laid off the media in order to be able to

get permission to use the many video clips from news broadcasts that appear in the movie. Seeing the actual talking heads was much more effective in the movie than using actors and fake networks would have been.

[Mabus]

68. There must have been some kind of deal struck

They also didn't mention or show anything about John Ellis calling the election first for Fox. They just showed the networks calling it for Bush.

[defendandprotect]

59. How did they handle the GOP fascist rally outside of Miami-Dade Election HQ's to stop the recount???

[Mabus]

67. They showed it.

But they didn't identify that many at the Brooks Brothers' riot were congressional aides.

According to the movie, the mob asked the cops if they could hold a quiet demonstration outside the room. They promised that they wre just going to make their point and would leave when asked. Then, they asked what kind of trouble the cops thought they'd make. The cops looked at them and then they pointed out how they were dressed. Implying, of course, that they were all white guys in Brooks Brothers clothes. The cops let them in.

[rzemanfl]

72. I think someone did mention later in the dialogue that they were

staffers from the hill.

[Mabus]

73. I must of missed it in the overtalking

I had four friends over last night to watch it with me. Three of them are political junkies, like me, and there was a lot of over-talking during the movie about what we each remembered and how we felt.

[Bluenorthwest]

77. They in fact said

They were Congressional staffers flown in on the Enron jet.

[rzemanfl]

80. Good memory. You are absolutely correct. n/t

[defendandprotect]

82. Flown in on the ENRON JET . . . hadn't heard that --

but, of course, none of this was of any interest to police enforcement, our Courts, or
the Supreme Court --- !!!

[Mabus]

91. I got to rewatch it with my husband last night

He was out of town on Sunday night. It was mentioned during the bar scene with Whouley and Klain.

[defendandprotect]

81. I mean . . . this fascist rally was actually being managed by the Bush people .....RIGHT????

It was financed and organized by them . . . wasn't it???

And they have all the names of all the people who were photographed and on film ....... all GOP.

A fully paid for fascist rally by the GOP/Bush organization --- !!!

The press knew this almost immediately -- it was being run from a trailer around the corner ---
their hotel bills and airline tickets were paid for ---

[Mabus]

90. There were contemporaneous reports in Time

of this information. There were also reports in the various media about the buses brining in Congressional aides. The problem was there was so much going on and the press, which was pulling for Bush/GOP, didn't see fit to do more than mention it.

Is this information coming as a surprise to you? This is the type of stuff that they did during the entire 2000 election cycle. Did you know that the press booed Gore, not at one but at two Democratic debates? Why would the press want to concentrate on little things like facts or dissemination of relevant information when those weren't their marching orders?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

40. All these comments. See?

I'm glad I don't have HBO.

[rzemanfl]

41. You need to see this, sometime when you aren't out walking the

streets. I'll be on the corner later.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

43. You're up late tonight, sailor

Wanna have a party?

[CC]

44. I spent the most of the movie wanting to cry

or beat something. He is still not my president and never will be. Now more depressed. The bright side if there is one is that Gore is more respected here and through out the world than the idiot could ever dream of being. I still mourn what could of been and am angry at what the repukes have done to this country and people the world over.

[np33]

50. This movie

also demostrates that Democratics need to take the gloves off during election time because the Rethugs cannot be trusted.

[defendandprotect]

60. Is this movie going to move anyone to do anything about any of this --- ????

[ObamaKerryDem]

49. It still takes my breath away to think that, had the creator of those butterfly ballots chosen..

".. a different font size, hundreds of thousands of people would be alive right now instead of dead. It just goes to show that there are no small jobs"

Sooo true!

I thought it was brilliant! :D It left me angered and saddened in one sense---to think that if not for all the bullshit that went down in Florida, Gore would've been president..and the country would probably be a MUCH different (and better) place! I actually think he'd have made an even better President than Clinton. And to think that if the recount had been allowed to have been completed and Bush's daddy's friends on the Supreme Court didn't interfrere, he would've been. :( *sighs* But on the other hand, it just makes me all the more determined and willing to fight even harder in THIS election. Never again!

A must see!

[defendandprotect]

61. I don't think these are isolated odd incidents . . .

Theresa LaPore --- the alleged Democrat who prepared the illegal ballot --- has been traced
back to the Republicans . . .

I think they well understand that enough dirty tricks --- like moving the Florida primary, for instance --- will finally add up to big numbers --- or big enough to make a difference ---

What was it with the butterfly ballots --- 3,000 plus votes for Buchanan ... ???

[BlueIris]

56. Damn. That was painful. I haven't thought about That Fall very much,

well, not until recently. It huuuuuuurts.

[defendandprotect]

62. Everyone also has to understand that 2000 isn't the first steal ---

It was just a very NOISY steal because a lot went wrong for them --

This has been going on since the computers began to come in during the mid-1960's . . .
After they killed JFK, they weren't going to have the public wake up and throw them out
with some kind of real election results ---

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=votescam+the+stealing+of+america&fr=yfp-t-501-s&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

This is the story of two journalists who began to investigate computer steals during the late 1960's....

[a kennedy]

64. and can people still say "get over it"???

I'll never get over it. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[lonestarnot]

71. Ack I couldn't sit through that. I lived it once and hugh ugh, never would I pay to watch again.

But it is a good thing for dumbasses who are still not aware. :halfsmilie:

[logosoco]

75. This morning my 13 year old daughter

who watched some of the movie with me (she remembers the 2000 election because that night i told the kids they had to go to bed, we would find out who won in the morning!!!) she knew it made me mad/depressed so she tried saying that bush's presidency was almost over and i should cheer up, but i reminded her that we can't take back or forget all the things that have happened because of bush.
I wish this movie could have been done before the 2004 elections!!!!!!!!!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

76. Wish there was a way to see it besides on HBO

I don't GET HBO =/

[Bluenorthwest]

78. Laura Dern

Was so great as Katherine Harris. Had to say that. Also great as Harris was the mascara Dern wore.

[K Gardner]

79. It triggered my PTSD from Election 2000.. and I kept finding myself thinking about Hillary !

Its eerie how similar the tactics are of the Republicans and her "camp".

I swore I wouldn't watch it, but I did.. now I'm sorry I did.

[defendandprotect]

83. So...beside providing a record, of course ....what did this movie accomplish . . . ?????

That is, as far as activating anyone to correct what happened in 2000 ????

[young_at_heart]

84. It inspired me to come back to DU

I don't know what that means exactly, but I've been so dispirited lately that I haven't been here for quite a while. I just watched this movie and something made me want to reconnect with like-minded people.

[bdamomma]

88. welcome back

feels like a knife being pierced through my heart by watching this, we cannot let this happen again.

[defendandprotect]

89. Well, I'm just milling around with the rest of them trying to figure out what to do . . . !!!

Trying to learn as much as I can --- trying to spread the world . . .

[Mabus]

92. You should go back and check out consortiumnews.com

Parry and others published a lot of this information years ago. Here's a sampling. http://www.consortiumnews.com/2002/080502a.html Btw, there were Halliburton planes too.

The documents show that the Bush organization put on the payroll about 250 staffers, spent about $1.2 million to fly operatives to Florida and elsewhere, and paid for hotel bills adding up to about $1 million. To add flexibility to the travel arrangements, a fleet of corporate jets was assembled, including planes owned by Enron Corp., then run by Bush backer Kenneth Lay, and Halliburton Co., where Dick Cheney had served as chairman and chief executive officer.

Only a handful of the Brooks Brothers rioters were publicly identified, some through photographs published in the Washington Post. Jake Tapper’s book on the recount battle, Down and Dirty, provides a list of 12 Republican operatives who took part in the Miami riot. Half of those individuals received payments from the Bush recount committee, according to the IRS records.

The Miami protesters who were paid by Bush recount committee were: Matt Schlapp, a Bush staffer who was based in Austin and received $4,276.09; Thomas Pyle, a staff aide to House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, $456; Michael Murphy, a DeLay fund-raiser, $935.12; Garry Malphrus, House majority chief counsel to the House Judiciary subcommittee on criminal justice, $330; Charles Royal, a legislative aide to Rep. Jim DeMint, R-S.C. $391.80; and Kevin Smith, a former GOP House staffer, $373.23.

Three of the Miami protesters are now members of Bush’s White House staff, the Miami Herald reported last month. They include Schlapp, who is now a special assistant to the president; Malphrus, who is now deputy director of the president’s Domestic Policy Council; and Joel Kaplan, another special assistant to the president. (See Miami Herald, July 14, 2002)

As for what to do, there's really nothing we can do about the 2000 election except to tell others what happened (filling in the details with as much information as you can). Otherwise, do whatever you can now to make sure that this stuff doesn't happen again.
Start locally. Votes are counted by the county clerks. Make sure you have a reliable one in office. Get people registered. I used to have (I recently moved) registration forms with information on how to fill it out and where to take it. Work with the local party to make sure people whose registrations you did are on the roll. If they aren't, find out why. Make sure you have poll watchers on election day, make sure you call people and get them to vote. I've been driving people to the polls for years.

In 2004, with the advent of cell phones, the election went a lot smoother. On election day, we walked door-to-door and if we found someone who hadn't voted yet we'd call one of the designated drivers in the area and make arrangements to take people to the polls. We had an almost complete sweep in the 2004 election. We got a county clerk, we got a new DA, we got Dems into most of the offices because we worked.

There is so much you can do. You just have to be as creative as possible and get as involved as you can. I'm in Maryland now (been here five months now) and later this week I'll be hitting the Metro stations with leaflets inviting people to a Democratic fundraiser. I've been walking around, talking to local businesses and leaving information there. I'm working with several local groups to get set the agendas we want our local officials to work with. It all starts at the grassroots. Find the people and get busy.

[defendandprotect]

93. Thank you ---

I'm familiar with Consortium . . . one of the many websites I check frequently ---

I have done many of the things you are describing with both the Democratic Party and the Green Party -

My concerns are more to stop the corruption at the very top --

Locally, here in NJ, we have Democrats in office and still a great deal of corruption ---

We all also have to understand that the computer steals didn't begin in 2000 but have been
on-going since the mid-1960's when they began to be used for election counts ---

See: http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

You can read the story of two journalists there who began investigating these computer steals
in the late 1960's . . .


PS: There is actually a better list with photographs on the internet of those who GOP members
who participated in the "rally" --