Albert Einstein Calls Bible "Pretty Childish" In Letter Up For Auction

[Better Believe It]

Einstein letter calls Bible ‘pretty childish’
Famous scientist also dismisses belief in God as product of human weakness
LONDON - Albert Einstein: arch rationalist or scientist with a spiritual core?
Associated Press
May 13, 2008

A letter being auctioned in London this week adds more fuel to the long-simmering debate about the Nobel Prize-winning physicist's religious views. In the note, written the year before his death, Einstein dismissed the idea of God as the product of human weakness and the Bible as "pretty childish."

In it, Einstein said that "the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

"For me," he added, "the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

Addressing the idea that the Jews are God's chosen people, Einstein wrote that "the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24598856/?GT1=43001

[More Than A Feeling]

1. Sounds like Einstein could have been the Richard Dawkins of his

day, if the surrounding culture had been a little less hysterical over communist infiltrators, for example.

[elocs]

2. The point being...? Or is there any point, implied or otherwise?

Einstein was brilliant and all, but his opinion is certainly not the be-all and end-all concerning religion and theology. Not exactly his field, was it? But he was allowed to have an opinion just like the rest of us.

[Better Believe It]

3. He Was A Pretty Smart Guy!

So I'll seriously consider his views on religion, politics, mom and apple pie!

[elocs]

6. Being smart in one area does not make you smart in all areas.

That is stating the obvious, isn't it?

[Sundoggy]

9. True, however

a titanic grasp of physics such as Einstein possessed does make you more likely to have intelligent opinions about the universe thatn your average bible-thumping moron.

[spoony]

23. Congrats on finding a clique that likes you

Militant anti-theists and a couple people too stupid to see through the Chinese propaganda. Your parties must rule.

[SidDithers]

33. No, we don't like him either...nt

Sid

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

83. What Sid said. It's a shame the "official" thread about Einstein's letter was this one.

I could have posted about this myself. Why didn't I? Damn.

[RedCappedBandit]

5. Point being he's right.nt

[elocs]

7. Well, I guess we can end all debate now, Einstein's right.

Or was he giving his opinion? There is a difference between facts that can be proven and opinions.

[Better Believe It]

14. There Ya Go!

[comradebillyboy]

17. Einstein was wrong about a lot of things

even in physics, but I sure do agree with his opinion of religion

[RedCappedBandit]

20. "There is a difference between facts that can be proven and opinions."

Got that right.

[jhrobbins]

65. Actually, a man ( I forget now) that wrote a bio of Einstein was asked

if Einstein was an atheist and he said that while he (Einstein) had a problem with religion, that he was, in fact, a deist. It was on morning Joe the other day and I think Mika asked the question.

[Sundoggy]

10. The point...

... for people who apparently pay no attention to such things, is that for many years Christians falsely promoted the idea that he believed in God. He didn't. All clear now?

[Twillig]

27. Bingo!

[EOTE]

45. What about Einstein's quote about god and quantum mechanics?

I believe Einstein had a hard time putting stock in Quantum Physics/Mechanics because as he said "God doesn't throw dice". That always seemed to imply to me that he did believe in some larger force out there.

I'll qualify this by saying that I'm an agnostic that believes, if there is a god, he/she very well might throw dice.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. I say "god damn" when I stub my toe.

That doesn't mean I believe in God.

I think you're reading way too much into that quote.

[EOTE]

78. That quote implies to me that he believed that a 'god' controlled the laws of physics.

He certainly wasn't using god in an exclamatory fashion. To me it sounded like he was saying that he couldn't believe that god would allow behavior to be completely unpredictable. Man's belief in god is widely varied. Some believe that god is an omnipotent and omniscient entity capable of controlling the universe, others see god as a benign spirit and there are a huge amount of believers in between and there are many varying degrees of non-believers too. It's not hard to believe that Einstein at least pondered the possibility of god, but was embarassed to admit to the belief of the god as presented in the bible, or in major religions in general.

[Marr]

13. It's relevant because religious people often quote Einstein out of context,

to make it seem as if he was a believer. The implication being, apparently, that it lends credibility to their faith.

I've no doubt those same people would do a 180 degree turn on the relevance of Einstein's beliefs if they were ever convinced that he was actually an atheist.

[varkam]

26. Well, Christians tended to co-opt Einstein...

referring to comments that he made such as "God does not play dice with the universe", and a supposed death-bed conversion (which is really disgusting) to claim him as a regular ole bible-thumpin' Christian.

Point being, it's unlikely that he was if he thought the bible was full of it.

[ORDagnabbit]

4. yep religion = opium of the masses.

[comradebillyboy]

18. quite true nt

[LanternWaste]

48. Religion used to be the opiate...

Religion used to be the opiate... these days gaming consoles have replaced religion as the new and improved opiate. Put a controller in a kids hands, and he's a brain-dead zombie for the weekend.

[Thew]

61. Opiates...

"Opiates have become the religion of the masses" - Neil Gaiman, 'American Gods'

[jhrobbins]

66. Yes, but there is a HUGE difference between theism and deism

[dkofos]

8. I agree.

[Disturbed]

11. Humans created gods, not the other way around.

Einstein was correct.

[matt007]

12. THE BIBLE IS A JOKE JUST LIKE ALL OTHER RELIG. TXTS

Come on people lol. All the bible is missing is Unicorns and hobbits lol

Its just silly and so are the people who believe in it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

34. Well I guess that settles it, then

Thousands of years of faith, tradition, and culture have finally been found out by...you.

Where have you been all this time? You could've prevented a lot of suffering and misunderstanding...I wish
you'd set everyone straight much earlier.

Maybe you should think about, like, getting a Blogger account so the word can get out. The world needs it.



:eyes:

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Subdivisions]

50. Perhaps you would like to

provide us with the evidence that matt007 is completely mistaken in his assertion that "God" does not exist?

I'm an agnostic, so such evidence would help me immensely. I'm willing to believe if I know it's not a delusional belief.

[matt007]

52. They cant cite anything but fairy tales

personally I thought the last poster was partial to hobbits.......instead of hobbits maybe the bible can have wizards! lol .....oh wait.....moses, jesus, noah....yea thats enough wizards lol

[Subdivisions]

55. Whoa...slow down...while I am dubious about the existance

of God and while I beleive that the Bible is a very good representation of the means by which ancient people related stories and who yearned for some sort of understanding of how they came to be, I have to gently remind you that there are some very nice people here who do believe and take comfort in their faith. We're entitled to our opinion but lets be gentle in our denials and our doubts and remain aware of those of faith.

Welcome to DU, matt007 :)

[matt007]

59. thanks for the welcome.........i still just dont trust religious folks

Those of faith normally dont respect atheists or agnostics. Or they have contempt for us. I just dont think they deserve to be taken seriously as far as politics is concerned. As far as respecting them i do admire the devotion catholic and orthodox priests have. They undertake rigorous study and devote their life to something they feel is noble. And the old religions have left us beautiful buildings. The same applies to buddhists, muslims, and jews. Beautiful contributions to society and they have filled a social niche.


Being from the south however i detest and have zero respect for baptists, evangelicals and the mega church folks. You or I could wake up tomorrow and call ourselves a "pastor" no dedication or study whatsoever.

I'm willing to give them equal respect but not to the extent where I believe in their stories. The line needs to be drawn somewhere with religious people good people or not. History shows if you dont hold a line with them they will impose upon you. (witch trials, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pat Robertson and co., Their understanding only goes as far as their most liberal theologians can stretch their dogma. Normally their stories aren't up for debate with them.

[spoony]

75. Gee, I wonder why that would be...

"Those of faith normally dont respect atheists or agnostics. Or they have contempt for us."

I'm sure that has NOTHING at all to do with the insults you've already shown yourself willing to throw on religious "folks". I mean, people usually respond well to having their beliefs ridiculed.

[jhrobbins]

67. Yes, because even the much vaunted Richard Dawkins said that

he was an agnostic and not an atheist - I saw him on an interview with Bill Maher say those exact words

[LanternWaste]

49. Martin Luther King and Mohandag Gahndi were "silly"?

Martin Luther King and Mohandag Gahndi were "silly"?

Well, I have no doubts you have quite the inerrant and absolute faith in your beliefs... :eyes:

[KathieG]

53. I'm no bible expert, but I think unicorns are actually mentioned in the bible...gotta love it!

[elocs]

15. Anybody care to guess how many millions of Americans who are Democrats and support Democrats

are religious? Care to guess how many thousands, or tens of thousands of Duers, some very highly respected are religious? I say this realizing how far out of their way many will go here to slam anything that has to do with religion and then make it out like they are so noble or self-righteous about doing it. I can say this as one who is at best an agnostic.

[Sundoggy]

16. Want to know why?

I have PLENTY of reasons for slamming Christians.

Just to pick one at random: A "Christian" told me that my son was dying of cancer because I didn't go to church.

I have more. Shall I go on? Shall I talk about the priest at his memorial service who gave a lecture about how we deserve to die if we sin by going to porn websites etc.?

I will express my opinions about Christians as frankly as I please.

[Riktor]

28. You can criticize Christian dogma to your liking, but...

...you cannot apply unqualified generalizations to hundreds of millions of people. Your experience in the matter is irrelevant, as the number of Christians you have met versus the number you have not is completely insignificant, in the statistical meaning of the word.

For the record, my parents attempted to raise me in the Catholic tradition before they lost their faith (mostly my doing, I must add), so I spent eight agonizing years in a Catholic school. For eight years I endured the derision of the miserable and embittered, newly empowered housewives the school referred to as "teachers". I was beaten, ridiculed, and made to feel completely inadequate as human being during the most emotionally formative years of my life. I struggled with dysthymia (a mild, long lasting form of depression) for most of my childhood. In fact, I still haven't really recovered; I sometimes experience social anxiety to the point where I cannot stand in line at the grocery store without feeling like I'm being evaluated by everyone in the goddamn store.

Nevertheless, I can't bring myself to judge every single Christian on this planet because I had to endure the ministrations of a pack of pathetic, sadistic, power-tripping fascists.

After all, my grandfather is a staunch Catholic... a staunch Catholic who marched for civil rights, a staunch catholic who is also a pacifist, who opposes the death penalty, who realizes the need for social welfare programs, who donated over 4 gallons of blood during the course of his life, who comforted the dying in assisted living centers, who donated his Sunday afternoons to the Meals on Wheels program...

My grandfather is a Catholic, and good man.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

41. The guilt, shame and resulting depression are tragic to millions of victims.

Yup.

I'm not even Catholic.

[LanternWaste]

51. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

"Just to pick one at random: A "atheist" told me that I was silly because I go to church."

Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

82. "Your child is dying because of you" vs. "You're silly." Yep. Same thing.

:banghead:

[Riktor]

30. I'm not seeing your point...

Religious dogma is not above criticism, as it is essentially a set of opinions. Simply because these opinions are of a spiritual persuasion does not automatically qualify them or shield them from the criticism of non-believers.

Of course, this isn't to say we should deride or loathe people simply because of their spiritual inclinations, but you can't rightfully demand that people respectfully keep their anti-theist, atheist, or agnostic opinions to themselves as to avoid offending those who believe.

[artemisia1]

40. Well Said! /eom

[JNelson6563]

43. Ah, there it is!

When I read your first comment I knew you were a believer who DID NOT LIKE THIS STORY. Your commenting repeatedly has been kinda building to a level of....wait for it......dragging a cross about.

Yes, many Dems and DUers are religious. Many are not. Does this mean stories like this shouldn't be discussed as it might offend? Oy.

Do you really believe it is the non-believers who act like they are "noble" and get "self-righteous"? If that's the case me thinks you should consider getting out less and perhaps not hanging out in places like DU where scary things get posted.

Julie

[LWolf]

87. I am aware. How could I not be?

Are you aware that the antagonism directed toward organized religion, especially Christianity, is a direct result of the antagonism directed from the church toward all practitioners of other faiths, or non-believers? The arrogance of claiming the only path to spirituality or deity, and demanding that everyone else join or be condemned to "hell?" The determination to discard the establishment clause and set up a United States theocracy?

I sincerely pray for the day that church leadership will act like the Christ, the way he has been presented.

I understand the frustration of those who rail against organized religion.

[dysfunctional press]

19. religion and the military are the two biggest drains on society-

in terms of money/manpower/time/resources wasted.

[King Coal]

21. But Einstein agreed about what the Bible said about homosexuals.

He said that he agreed that they were all a bunch of knot-heads. LOL!

Oh, I love teasing you guys.

:rofl:

[Occulus]

22. "He does not throw dice."

-Albert Einstein

:D

[Greyhound]

32. Apparently he plays GTA.

[Withywindle]

37. DUzy!!!! n/t

:rofl:

[CRF450]

46. Damn he demolished that camaro!! nt

[lonestarnot]

24. One damn thing for sure.

It's too late for him to change his mind, whatever he thought. :wow:

[LibertyorDeath]

25. Most fairy tales are "Childish"

N/T

[Fox Mulder]

29. The Bible is a fairy tale and most fairy tales are childish.

So he wasn't wrong about that.

[kskiska]

31. Desmond Morris feels much the same

I am a non-theist. I don’t like the term ‘atheist’ because it states that I am ‘without a god,’ implying that I am lacking in something. I think it is the theists who are lacking something, namely a common sense understanding of the fact that each human individual is merely a temporary container for his or her (potentially immortal) genetic material.

(snip)

Like any good scientist I keep an open mind. But the concept of an omnipotent deity is so fatuous that even my open scientific mind finds it hard to take it seriously. It belongs with ghosts and gremlins and hobgoblins and things that go bump in the night. Something to frighten naughty children with- and a wonderful way for cunning holy men to exploit the gullible and the feeble-minded.

(snip)

As Louis Armstrong said of rock’n’roll: ‘It’s the same soup warmed over.’ Using the term ‘Intelligent Design’ is just a fashionable way of trying to avoid some of the worn-out clichés of theology. But if you have intelligent designs you have to have an intelligent designer and, whoops, here we go again, it’s that nice old man with a long white beard who gave us leprosy, malaria, gangrene, parasitic worms and cancerous tumours.

(snip)

The major selling point with religion is that you are promised a lovely time in the next life. I am now an old man rapidly approaching my death and I admit that I would feel happier about that event if I could believe in an afterlife. It is such a comforting thought. I happen to think that death is simply a dreamless sleep, but if I find myself lying on a cloud surrounded by harp-playing virgins, whoopee!

more…
http://www.cosmoetica.com/DSI8.htm

[Zhade]

36. Yeah. He was an atheist. Sadly, this is not well-known.

He lacked belief in any gods - the very definition of "atheist".

[Dreamer Tatum]

38. How is it sad that his opinion isn't well-known?

Not even Godel could make use of Einstein's atheism to disprove the existence of God.

I think the discussion about religion on DU gets confounded pretty easily. No one wants to have
religion thrust upon them - not even religious people. This does not, however, negate or even
discount the inherent value of faith. People who object to have religion forced upon them tend
to get sloppy and condemn faith itself. That's wrong and bad.

[SidDithers]

42. Inherent value of faith?...

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Sid

[Dreamer Tatum]

62. Faith is faith. Demanding "evidence" to condone faith is fatous.

Faith is inherently valuable to those who have it. If you don't have any, have a nice day and try not to be so offended by people
who believe in something other than your opinion.

[Zhade]

73. Since faith is the belief in things lacking any evidence, you're correct.

You're wrong, however, to say that facts that disprove religious ideas are opinions.

[Dreamer Tatum]

74. No fact can possibly disprove religion

Facts can dispute things people believe in the name of religion. Maybe that's what you mean to say.

[Zhade]

86. I agree with that - facts regularly disprove religious premises, but not the act of being religious.

NT!

[Greyhound]

47. It is sad because all those years that christians were lying about him,

they felt that his beliefs were very important, but when it's disproved, they say "it's just his opinion".

"Faith" is, by definition, delusional.

[Dreamer Tatum]

63. Ultimately, Einstein was a man.

And although I am not a religious person by any stretch, I'm not haughty and
dismissive enough to draw a tautology between faith and delusion.

[Greyhound]

79. As I said, by definition:

de·lu·sion

Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.

[Dreamer Tatum]

80. Thanks for the definition

Now what the HELL are you talking about?

[Greyhound]

84. Your Assertion that there is inherent value in delusion, and I quote;

"This does not, however, negate or even
discount the inherent value of faith."

Faith = delusion.

It is well that you do suffer under this delusion, but the prevailing attitude that we must accommodate delusional beliefs in others is harmful to. society our and leads to the very situations we see today. As one minor example, the plethora of bizarre liquor laws throughout this nation.

[Zhade]

71. Atheism is not about disproving gods. It's about not buying into them due to the lack of evidence.

NT!

[grantcart]

39. about a thousand years ago I attended Princeton Theological Seminary

and right in the middle are residential areas that are usually but not exclusively used by professors and people with a long term connection to the Seminary. When he lived in Princeton he lived in this area and not by the University or the Institute. It could have been purely asthetic as it is a spectacularly beautiful campus and area to live or he may have enjoyed the neighborhood.

Anyway it was possible to talk to people in the area that still had remembered him and had funny anecdotes about him.

[blondeatlast]

44. Zzzzzzzz--next Lamebait? nt

[Forrest Greene]

54. Einstein... Nice Man, Nice Man

Made a fortune in physics.

[spanone]

56. yep, he was a genius

[chaska]

57. Wow, pretty astonishing the level of superstitious belief evident here at DU.

People really need to evolve already.

[SidDithers]

64. I couldn't agree more...nt

Sid

[jhrobbins]

70. And yet evolved people are eager to subscribe without reservation

the notion that everything in the universe was once smaller than this period... I have a hard time getting my head around the fact that my car could be compressed into a mass smaller than an atom - and yet I still believe that these physicists kinda know what they are talking about - to a point. Even Stephen Hawking says that all science breaks down a few minutes before the 'big bang'.

[Zhade]

72. Of course, the difference between the two is, science actually has evidence backing it up.

Religions don't.

[spoony]

76. And you will be voting for...?

[malaise]

58. Einstein was a genius

and he is 100% correct.

"the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions".

[Domingo Moore]

68. If hillary had said this, she would have been crucified

Of course.

[UndertheOcean]

69. Thats proof that he's smart !

:)

[invictus]

77. K & R

[TexasObserver]

81. The stories in the Bible are childish, more Paul Bunyan than reality

And, they're almost all stolen from either Egypt or Mesopotamia.

[BlooInBloo]

85. Heh.