HOMELESSNESS: A play that could have educated and helped... apparently makes a mess instead.

[bobbolink]

When we are so badly in need of education and understanding, along comes a play that, according to this article, reinforces the stereotype that homeless people are druggies and prostitutes:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/may/09/denvers-homeless-play-inspiring-role/

"A young woman who goes by "Angel" was telling her story to Steve Sapp. She'd been a teenage prostitute and drug user, clean for one year and now living in a safe house provided by Providence Network.

Sapp and his wife, Mildred Ruiz, were trying to learn something about what it means to be homeless in Denver in preparation for their new play, The Denver Project."

"A lifetime of drugs

A few blocks from the women's safe house, Sapp visits a men's residence, where "Shawn," a Houston native, has been staying.

Since getting busted for a huge quantity of LSD in his teens, Shawn has been in and out of group homes and rehab. He overdosed in Virginia with a crack pipe in his mouth and a needle in his arm, he says. He got sober, but then found out his sponsor was using drugs."

If I had the money, I'd like to go to this play, and hand out fliers with the REAL information about homelessness!!

This is an abomination, and will only hurt the rest of us even further!

Damn... what the hell does it take to get through to people?!

A lifetime of drugs

A few blocks from the women's safe house, Sapp visits a men's residence, where "Shawn," a Houston native, has been staying.

Since getting busted for a huge quantity of LSD in his teens, Shawn has been in and out of group homes and rehab. He overdosed in Virginia with a crack pipe in his mouth and a needle in his arm, he says. He got sober, but then found out his sponsor was using drugs.

A lifetime of drugs

A few blocks from the women's safe house, Sapp visits a men's residence, where "Shawn," a Houston native, has been staying.

Since getting busted for a huge quantity of LSD in his teens, Shawn has been in and out of group homes and rehab. He overdosed in Virginia with a crack pipe in his mouth and a needle in his arm, he says. He got sober, but then found out his sponsor was using drugs.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

And, of course, there will be the usual DUers screaming, "BUT it's TRUE!"

:nuke:

[annabanana]

1. They must demonize and "otherize" people they would

rather not provide for. And it is a disgrace.

[bobbolink]

2. Yes, so we suffer and die in the process. Does it matter?

I'm so discouraged from this, I can hardly hold my head up.

We soooo badly needed public attention, and we get THIS.

Set us back again to the 80s

:cry:

[smokey nj]

4. It sure is a disgrace.

[flashl]

3. If some believe its TRUE, ask them to explain New Orleans where families live under overpasses. nt

[bobbolink]

11. And a lot of other places and situations. But, as you can see from posters below,

none of that matters... it's having things all neatly tied up on a package, so they can handle it.

So what if that package is wrong?

Matters not.

Nor does it matter how many people are hurt and suffer deeply by the stereotypes!

How quickly we've forgotten the really ugly stereotypes about "Negroes" that people "KNEW" were true, because they "KNEW" a lot of black people!

:mad:

[Forkboy]

5. Yeesh.

That does not help. :puke:

[bobbolink]

14. It certainly doesn't. It will bring about yet one more backlash against homeless

people, and make people like me have to endure even MORE prejudice!

Yet, you see DUers defend this shit.

:cry: :mad: :cry:

[sandnsea]

6. It's a dilemma

How do you get help for the mentally ill who are homeless if you don't talk about them. There are all kinds of homeless people with all kinds of needs, but you do have to talk about them in order to get any funding for the programs to help them.

[MadHound]

7. Having been homeless for a couple of years myself,

And having worked with the homeless for a couple of decades, yes, I can honestly say that most of the homeless, especially the single males, do way too many drugs for their own good. No, they're not ODing with crack pipes in their mouths and needles in their arms, but rather most of them are either drinking themselves into oblivion, the largest drug of choice, or escaping via dope, crack or crank.

This isn't stereotyping, this is what I've seen with my own eyes, with a good view from the belly of the beast. Nor is this condemnation of these people, since I fully understand the pressures and emotions that are leading them down that path.

I've also seen how many young homeless women slide right down into prostitution. This isn't the majority of women, but it is a significant amount who, driven by lack of money, are willing to sell themselves.

The influx of homeless families over the past twenty years has changed many of the stats and demographics, but even there, it is sad to see how the adults, or even teen-age children slide into either drink or drugs.

It isn't that people "let themselves go", become alkies or druggies and then homeless, it is rather people, crushed by a brutal economic system in this country are driven into the ground, become homeless, and then give in to despair.

Believe me or not, condemn me or not, but I've been there and know intimately and personally what happens to the homeless in this country.

[bobbolink]

9. You're wrong, but you will argue it to death, and make life even more miserable for people like me,

who must PROVE that we AREN'T.

Ever tried to PROVE a negative?

It can't be done.

So, we live with the stigma and the SHIT because of people like you.

If you've worked in an area that is mostly drug-infested, then that's what you see. That DOESN"T make it the "norm", or the "majority". It's just what YOU see.

Plenty of people see otherwise, but they aren't heard.

The stats from the Coalition for the Homeless disagree with you, Mike Moore disagrees with you, but I'm willing to bet you will stand and scream and point at ME, because you are invested in being right.

It doesn't matter what you do to people like me, as long as you're convinced you're RIGHT.

[MadHound]

28. No, I'll just allow you to heap abuse on me on an anonymous chat board

Just because I realize that your experience shapes your viewpoint, just as my experience shapes mine. Nor am I going to ask you to prove anything, including a negative, because having been homeless, I've been in your shoes before, OK.

Don't fucking make assumptions about how I'm going to react to you, nor about how I think on certain topics. You do know what ass u me means don't you. You hate having to prove yourself to others, please extend the same sort of courtesy to others, OK.

As far as your contention goes, rather than going with sources that you haven't linked to I think that I'll go with more authoritative sources, like the NIH <http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=15117708>
Or you can check out the many other peer reviewed sources that support my viewpoint
<http://wch.uhs.wisc.edu/13-Eval/Tools/PDF-Documents/Homeless%20and%20%20SubstanceAbuse.pdf.>

But whatever you do, please don't ass u me what I'm going to do, or how I'm going to react to you. If you're going to take this sort of level-headed adult discussion so personally that you feel the need to excoriate somebody who wasn't even addressing you personally, then perhaps you should take a break. Remember, I've been homeless, I help the homeless. That doesn't mean that I willfully blind myself to the facts concerning the homeless population. Nor do I ass u me anything about anybody, homeless or not. I find such assumptions rude and counterproductive.

Next time think and empathize before posting, OK. You don't know what I'm thinking, nor how I will react.

[varkam]

8. Well, many homeless *are* addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

That's not to say that all of them are, nor do I mean anything pejorative by it as I've got my demons also. I regularly volunteer at a homeless shelter that also has an attached recovery program based on AA/NA. Drugs and alcohol are major problems for many people trying to get back on their feet. For someone people their addiction started before their homelessness, and for others their addiction was a means of coping with the stark reality of grinding poverty.

Again, though, that's not to be pejorative or to insinuate that it is their fault for being homeless and so they are somehow less deserving of help. There are many causes of homelessness, and many factors that keep people locked into it - I don't think it is helpful, though, to deny that drugs and alcohol can be such factors.

[bobbolink]

10. Please don't paint me unfairly, OK? I NEVER said said anything about "denial".

I'm so damned sick of this same Raygun arguement that I could scream!

It's time to move on from the Raygun democrats, and face the reality.

NOw, if you'll kindly read what I said.... It's this media portrayal as ALL homelessness to be drug and alcohol related that is KILLING the rest of us.

As I said to the other detractor... the rest of us CANT prove we AREN'T. And that's what you're doing to US by this insistance that your particular corner is THE only corner.

Of course, when there is a shelter attached to a rehab center, NATURALLY THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE.

That's logic.

It's elemental.

You're NOT seeing the others.

Look at what you're doing with YOUR denial and insistance to people like ME!

[varkam]

12. I'm not saying that "my corner is the only corner".

Nor did I say that it is a problem for everyone - it isn't, nor did I say that it was. However, the "logic" is that if there are several hundred people checking in to a homeless shelter and partaking in recovery programs for drugs and alcohol, it's not exactly a logical fallacy to state that drugs and/or alcohol are problems compounding homelessness. I never said that it was a problem for all homeless people.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but then again I don't like being compared to Reagan, either.

[bobbolink]

13. Gee, sorry.. *I* don't like being painted into a corner with alkies and druggies.

BUT you managed to skip right over that, didn't you?

You went right to defending the image of homeless people as alkies and druggies, without ever a compassionate mention of what that does to people like me--And there are a LOT more of us than the druggies and alkies!

So, you ARE repeating the raygun crap, whether you like hearing that or not.

Oh, and remember all the stereotypes about "Negroes"?? People KNEW they were lazy and shiftless, because ALL the "negroes" *they* knew were lazy and shiftless. They were SURE of it.

And on and on and on and on....

[varkam]

15. I never said that you were an alcoholic or a drug addict.

Nor did I assume or imply that. I know that not all homeless people are addicted to drugs or alcohol, nor do I think that being an alcoholic or a drug addict is a moral failure.

Oh, and remember all the stereotypes about "Negroes"?? People KNEW they were lazy and shiftless, because ALL the "negroes" *they* knew were lazy and shiftless. They were SURE of it.

Now you're just being ridiculous. To deny that drugs and alcohol can be a compounding factor for homelessness is to have one's head in the sand. I suppose you like it there, though.

[bobbolink]

16. Well, you can, of course, punish me more than I can punish you.

I suppose you enjoy that power.

What you said was a personal attack, and you know it.

So, show your fairness, and erase this:

it's better than where *your* head is.

See, that's what attacks do... they engender more.

edited to say--if you will remember, my words to you were "Please don't paint me unfairly", remember that? A bit more kind than your snippy reply, don't you think?

And, now your attack?

Because your power makes you safe?

And those with the power use it.

Is this how you treat the people in the shelter?

Have fun.

Raygun was great, wasn't he?

[varkam]

17. Right after you compared me to Reagan and racists.

You should follow your own advice, friend.

[bobbolink]

19. THat comparison is in your own mind, friend.

I said that attitude is a holdover from the Rayguns.

I also pointed out the correlation of making your own experience be global. That is accurate, so you get mad rather than seriously considering the "logic" in your view. Kinda like other groups do, doncha think?

I'll try once again, since your hostility needs to cool off....

The MAIN POINT of the OP is that using stereotypes is WRONG and hurts innocent people.

Sorry if you can't see the truth, logic, and the pain in that.

[varkam]

21. Not really.

I said that attitude is a holdover from the Rayguns.

You did? Let's refer to the record, shall we?

t's time to move on from the Raygun democrats, and face the reality.

...

Oh, and remember all the stereotypes about "Negroes"?? People KNEW they were lazy and shiftless, because ALL the "negroes" *they* knew were lazy and shiftless. They were SURE of it.

You did mention that it was a Reagan argument, once, but not in what I just posted. Also, you still compared me to a racist.

I have repeatedly stated that it is not an issue for all homeless people, though you don't seem to be too interested in actually reading what I write. Apparently, you were just looking for a target on which to unload your righteous indignation.

I also pointed out the correlation of making your own experience be global. That is accurate, so you get mad rather than seriously considering the "logic" in your view. Kinda like other groups do, doncha think?

Again, it would help it you were to actually read what I wrote. I never said that all homeless people are addicted to drugs or are alcoholics (which would be the definition of "global"). To say that they are compounding factors for some or many homeless people is not to say that they are compounding factors for all homeless people.

Sorry if you can't see the truth, logic, and the pain in that.

Hyperbole is your friend.

[bobbolink]

22. Careful with that hostility. It could go off on you at any time.

ONe more time... I replied politely to your first stereotype.

What you focused on was how right it was, because there are so many alcoholics and druggies, and you know that because that is what you see. No, you didn't acknowledge the pain involved to others by this one-sided view. You see what you see there, so you of course you MUST be right. No matter who it hurts.

You decided to escalate because you're RiGHT... then you escalate to a personal attack.

Then you keep defending yourself instead of acknowledging that the same stereotyping has gone on for just about every other group dealing with prejudice.

I gave an example. You want to make it personal, maybe you need to look at it deeper. "If the shoe fits...." You made it personal, not me, "friend".

[varkam]

23. Oy.

ONe more time... I replied politely to your first stereotype.

po·litely adv.

po·liteness n.

Synonyms: polite, mannerly, civil, courteous, genteel
These adjectives mean mindful of, conforming to, or marked by good manners. Polite and mannerly imply consideration for others and the adherence to conventional social standards of good behavior

That is how you define polite, correct? I was fine until you compared me to Reagan and made the implication that I was just as bad as your garden variety racist. Moreover, it's not exactly a stereotype to say that substance abuse can be a compounding problem for homelessness. One study found that 66% of homeless adults suffer from alcoholism and around 50% suffer from substance abuse. That's not a stereotype - it's data. I'm sorry you are either unwilling or unable to understand the difference.

What you focused on was how right it was, because there are so many alcoholics and druggies, and you know that because that is what you see. No, you didn't acknowledge the pain involved to others by this one-sided view. You see what you see there, so you of course you MUST be right. No matter who it hurts.

I don't understand why you have such a pejorative view of alcoholics and drug addicts. I certainly don't - I'm in recovery myself. As I've said again and again and again, it's not a factor for everyone but again to ignore that it is a factor for some is to ignore a big part of the problem.

Then you keep defending yourself instead of acknowledging that the same stereotyping has gone on for just about every other group dealing with prejudice.

Again, I find it very strange that you have such a prejudiced view of alcoholics and drug addicts. Being addicted to drugs or alcohol isn't a moral failing or anything of the sort - it's a disease.

I gave an example. You want to make it personal, maybe you need to look at it deeper. "If the shoe fits...." You made it personal, not me, "friend".

Whatever you say.

ETA The NHC estimates that 26% of homeless adults suffer from some form of substance abuse. Have a lookie (http://www.nationalhomeless.org/publications/facts/addiction.pdf)

[bobbolink]

24. I'll take your "sorry" and let it go at that. Clearly, you wish to keep your mind closed

to the pain that the REST of us suffer because we are accused of being alkies and druggies.

AND, those figures ARENT from many REPUTABLE SOURCES, such as The National Coalition For The Homeless.

AND, I'd like to know where you said "please"?

AND, I remind you, oh powerful polite one, that YOU WERE THE ONE WHO TOLD ME MY HEAD WAS BURIED.

Yeah, that was polite.

So, continue with your hostility.

Clearly, your idea of "progressive" is back to the 1980s.

[varkam]

25. Uh, I just posted from the NCH.

Maybe you didn't catch it, but it found that a full quarter of homeless people suffer from substance abuse. In my book, that qualifies as "many". Sorry you seem to think that it's "stereotyping".

AND, I'd like to know where you said "please"?

I'm not the one claiming to be polite, oh victimized one.

Clearly, your idea of "progressive" is back to the 1980s.

Clearly, your idea of polite is fucked.

Have a good one :hi:

[maryf]

38. and 75%

Is many, many more. So this play focuses on a minority, a large number of people yes, but what is the cause of the other 75%'s plight?

[uppityperson]

33. You seem to have issues taking everything personally and negatively and attacking nastily.

I do hope you still have me on ignore, if you don't, please feel free to add me again.

[maryf]

39. whats the point?

Did you read this thread? Bobbolink's responses are invariably related to the threads she starts, what is your point in stating to her what you've obviously stated before? It has no relation to the thread here. Bobbolink's personal situation grants her the right to impatience IMNSHO, when she tries to point out that the majority of homeless do not fit into the categories this play is promoting, and people can't see her point but keep defending the play's side. The play is damaging to the plight of those without homes in that it gives those who might seek justice for the less fortunate to give pause "After all, they got themselves there".

[maryf]

37. To deny that drugs and alcohol

Aren't a huge problem in all of society is to put your head in the sand, BUT the huge problem for the people without homes is that they don't have the means to have the lifestyle which should be a human right. You seem to not get Bobbolink's point here. Society likes to demonize them or give the more fortunate a reason to feel a little less compassionate for their plight, "oh poor "them", but must be their own fault...". Having been to AA meetings years ago, I can guarantee there were plenty of cross-addicted folks in tailor made suits along with plenty of less well dressed folks in the same plight. To make drugs and alcohol (and prostitution) the main cause of homelessness, or to imply that by a play such as this is ludicrous and a major impediment to getting to the root causes and solutions of homelessness (look again at compassion and justice).

[caseycoon]

18. K&R This really ticks me off!

Why the hell can't they do a smattering of investigation & learn the truth? GEEEEEZ seems like most people wouldn't know (or want to know) the truth if it bit them in the butt.
:grr:

[bobbolink]

20. Because real investigation is actual Weeeerrrrrrk, and not nearly as much fun

as promoting stereotypes.

I'm so discouraged by this I can't even keep my head up anymore.

I'm all out of fight for this kind of shit.

Hiding out under a rock looks better and better.

:cry:

:hug:

[Greyhound]

26. Simply being born into poverty, the unspeakably evil 'War on Drugs', prohibition,

abuse, divorce, the rapacious health care denial industry, classism, racism, natural disasters, mental illness, etc. The list of reason people have become homeless is very long, if not endless, and often leads to the drug abuse, etc., that is so often wrongly listed as the cause, rather than the symptom.

We have become so insulated and appallingly ignorant that the majority of us never consider it at all, and when we do, reach (or more often are fed) the wrong conclusions.

Keep up the good fight.

BTW, I think we were the only people on our block to leave a bag for the mail carrier today.
:kick: & R

[bobbolink]

27. Thank you, greyhound. "Keeping up the fight" is so discouraging, in the face of

the monumental ignorance, as Sapphire Blue well knew.

She got the same kind of mocking that I get, and it hurt her deeply.

One thing I've come to really grasp lately, in all my research... that which is so obvious that even children know it... Homeless people are homeless because they.... DON"T HAVE A HOME!

All this other stuff and listing of reasons is a smoke screen.

The REAL housing crisis has been going on for decades, and that is the simple lack of housing that many can afford!

It really IS that simple.

As Barney Frank said, there are 9 million of us who need low-income housing. There are 6 million units available. Guess what.. again, a child can do that math. (Plus, many of those 6 million units are not what anyone in their right mind would consider "appropriate")

As Jonathan Kozol said, and I'm paraphrasing, unless and until there is a huge awakening and outcry about the lack of housing, and a determination to rectify the situation, there will be homeless people in great (and greater!) numbers in this United States. And we seem to be going in the opposite direction, and getting used to it, and justifying it.

Focusing the public attention on druggies and alkies as the cause is disgusting and morally wrong.

[Greyhound]

30. I've just come to the conclusion that there really is no hope, and it's not because of the

republiks or democrats, it is us. There is now a majority in the US of mean-spirited, ignorant, short-sighted fools. They will cling to their selfishness to the bitter end and then whine when there is no help for them.
:kick:

[bobbolink]

31. I'm afraid you are right. Just seeing how little poverty means to DUers shows that.

Even now..... there is an outpouring of grief for Sapphire Blue, which is certainly highly warranted.

YET, what she wanted was for us to remember her by working for poverty issues.

That's not what people are willing to do.

:cry:

The US is alone in the industrialized world with seeing poor people as "bad", "flawed", etc. And, it's indeed US. NOT the RW.

[Gormy Cuss]

29. Tell them directly.

The theater company has a mission to address real issues but you are right -- who needs another play about addiction among the homeless when there are so many other stories to be told?

Here's their website.
http://www.curioustheatre.org/index.html

[bobbolink]

32. "who needs another play about addiction among the homeless "

Thank you, and I hope you will also tell them that!
\
Really, I would appreciate your support on this.

Will write.. thanx...

However, the damage is done once the audience sees it.. in fact, just the newpaper article about it reinforced all the damned stereotypes, and the rest of us will be suffering the effects of that.

I wish there were "liberals" who cared enough to prepare fliers to hand out to the play-goers to counter-act the crap!

:(

[Gormy Cuss]

34. Did write, but I'm not as strong a voice on this issue as someone with experience

like you. I know the stories second hand.

[bobbolink]

35. Thank you!! No, our voices are ignored. We're all drunks, doncha know...

or mentally ill, so what would we know?

We're all a bunch of lying frauds.

Yes, that IS how we're treated.

Thank you for writing!! I very much appreciate that!

[Rex]

36. Alot of people use drugs, lonely depressed people need an escape.

The working poor, homeless, destitute people need to stay away from reality so they use mind altering drugs. Have been since humans first learned social stratification. No doubt there are homeless and some working poor that don't use drugs, to say they all do is willful ignorance. Some do, some don't.

We need to ask the question, why do so many Americans need to do mind altering drugs? After 8 years of Bush/Cheney, I'm surprised we aren't all on opium or heroin. Anything to dull the pain.

[graycem]

40. How sad..

people are homeless for so many more reasons. This should be a play about drug addiction, not homelessness. Some people have seriously twisted ideas.

[G_j]

41. sad indeed... kick