McCain's answer to healtcare: Tax credits and the market

[LSK]

TAMPA, Fla. - Republican John McCain wants to change how people get their health insurance, shifting away from job-based coverage to an open market where people can choose from competing policies.

McCain said Tuesday he would offer families a $5,000 tax credit to help buy insurance policies. Everyone would get the credit, whether he or she keeps a policy through an employer or shops for a new one.

snip

McCain issued his own criticism of Democratic plans for health care, saying Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton want government-run health care because they seek mandatory health care coverage, Obama for children and Clinton for everyone.

"They urge universal coverage, with all the tax increases, new mandates, and government regulation that come along with that idea," McCain said. "The key to real reform is to restore control over our health care system to the patients themselves."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_health_care

What the fuck is with Republicans and their blind ideology towards markets?????????? Universal Healthcare works in Canada, UK, France, Denmark, Germany, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Japan, New Zealand etc etc etc etc etc etc

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[Mz Pip]

1. Newsflash, John

People already can choose from competing policies. Lots of choices out there. Problem is, if you have any kindof pre-existing condition the open market won't do you diddly squat.

[napi21]

2. Don't ya just love this "tax credit crap"! How difficult is it for even an idiot

to understand that a TAX CREDIT can't help anyone who doesn't have the $$ to pay for the policies in the first place? This foolishness that a tax credit or a tax cut will fix ANYTHING is just plain STUPID! Talk about a one track mind!

[Mz Pip]

3. Also, if

free market worked so well, we wouldn't be in this mess. Free market is essentially what everyone who doen't have group insurance through an employer gets.

Many companies hire 'consultants' so they don't have to cover health care. Many companies schedule 39 hr work weeks so they don't have to give their 'part-time' employers health coverage.

Tax credits won't fix this mess.

[LSK]

4. he assumes healthcare is a commodity that can be subject to market forces

Im sorry, but if I have a heart attack, I cannot wait for a SALE on heart operations. I must have it now.

Healthcare is life or death, its not something that should be treated like a market for big screen TVs.

[OmahaBlueDog]

8. Wait for the real fun though....

Dear Joe Bagodonutz:

We know you are having an upcoming hip replacement, and we know that you were considering having Dr. Jones do the work down at the Regional General Hospital. We'd like you to instead consider letting us fly you and a family member to to have this work performed.

Love,

Your HMO

[napi21]

9. I've read where several companies are already doing that.

Not by letter, but they did the research and found that even after they pay the airfare & hotel stays, and the medical costs, it's still a lot cheaper for them to send their employee to Tiwan or somewhere like it to that the operation done! I'd heard this about 6 months ago, and I just read it about another company in an newspaper article a day or so ago.

[OmahaBlueDog]

13. It's widely used for electives, like boob jobs & tummy tucks

.. so they'll take it a step further. Either they'll mandate offshoring (if you have a crappy HMO), or if you have good coverage, they'll sweeten it ("We'll fly you first class, put you up in a beachside recovery facility, have your every whim catered). My understanding is that a bunch of companies are looking at this concept for planned procedures (knee replacement, hip replacement, cataracts, lasik, bypass, back surgery). The big roadblock, as I understand it, is who pays and who cleans up the mess if something goes awry. Once they get past that hurdle, watch how fast this take hold.

Meanwhile, Physicians can now experience the joy of having their work outsourced.

[LSK]

10. You mean your doctor is not make the decisions?!?!?! I'm shocked!!!

Shocked I tell you!

:sarcasm:

[Wcross]

5. Tax credit, not a tax deduction.

Have you ever heard of the "earned income tax credit"? If there was a 5000 dollar tax credit for health insurance those who did not make enough money to even pay income taxes would receive a "refund" to cover their health care policy.

[napi21]

12. Yes I know what a tax CREDIT IS, but what you seem to be nissing is

you request and prove that you qualify for a "tax cedit" on your tax return. How does that person pay the HC premiums during the year BEFORE they file a tax return? Unless of course Mr. McNut is planning on sending EVERYONE a $5,000 check to kick this terrifc idea off?

[Wcross]

16. Pay it upfront.

Use a similar system used to pay these stimulus checks. Pay "everyone" right away but those with health care provided as a benefit from their employer would not be eligible. There would have to be some very serious checks on eligibility but it would work. Have all health insurance provider supply the data on who is already covered through an employer plan or have the employer report it as income on the w-2 form. Those that need health insurance would simply fill out a 1040 ez form in order to qualify. Make the payment directly to the health insurance provider in order to cut down on the possibility of fraud.

It could work.

[napi21]

17. OH I SEE! The current stimulus package is $150 BILLION.....

added to the already out of control debtm and of course being made with BORROWED MONEY...but then who's counting?

I have a feel for how many people there are in the US but I have absolute NO IDEA how many people would be eligible for this $5,000. Just how damn far are the Pubs willing to push the Debt before they realize the mighty USA is damn near bankrupt!!!!!!!!

Face it, it's a damn stupid idea!

[Wcross]

18. So you have an alternative that wouldn't cost anything?

Lets hear it! Obviously it will have to be paid for just as any other health care insurance proposal would.

[Wcross]

19. I didn't think you did.

No matter how it is accomplished higher taxes from EVERYONE will be required. I am all for EVERYONE having access to health care & affordable health insurance. It seems to me that if EVERYONE was covered it would be less expensive for everyone.

[Ichingcarpenter]

6. McCain gets owned in LA by a Billboard saboteur

[dflprincess]

7. I suppose when you're paying $35 a month for your

government sponsored healthcare, you think $5,000 would be plenty of money for a family. - Why it would probably even cover those pesky deductibles as well as the premiums.

What a tool.

[SammyWinstonJack]

14. Time to take away their government sponsored health care! And Edwards as going too do just that

if they didn't pass his health care proposal. x(

[BulletproofLandshark]

11. The market CANNOT be trusted.

If we had more money to spend on healthcare, what's to stop these crooks from just jacking up their prices again? And Senator McCain, heavy government regulation of health care is EXACTLY what this country needs. That, and to put the for-profit insurance companies out of business forever.

[lovuian]

15. thats Pathetic

he isn't going to get very far with that one

[sammythecat]

20. Here's what the Insurance industry is.

It's like every day I go InsuranceWorld in Las Vegas and place a bet that I'll get hurt or sick that day. If I do, InsuranceWorld has to pay up, but the thing is I rarely get hurt or sick so everyday they take my money and the money of hundreds of million of others. Once in a while they get burned, but in the long run they're pretty much guaranteed to make an absolute killing just as sure as any other casino.

That's exactly how it works here in this country. If we want to prepare for disaster, the only way we can do that is to gamble with the "house", and the odds ALWAYS, ALWAYS, favor the house. Heavily. It's a wonderful and stupendously lucrative racket for the insurance companies. And make no mistake, it is just that, a racket.

Now, we all face the risk, usually minimal, of fire, crime, and domination by a foreign power. Even though the risks are relatively small, being subjected to any of these threats is so often catastrophic that we band our resources together and, communally, establish a government system to protect us against these threats. Usually, the majority of us are never in need of these safeguards, but I never hear valid complaints that these things should be taken out of the hands of the government and privatized. Anyone suggesting we do just that would be regarded as either a fool or a greedy bastard.

So, even though almost every single one of us will, with almost total certainty, have to deal with sickness, disease, and injury, we have no protection at all in place like we do for the other threats. The only thing we have are the insurance casinos who are ready, willing, and positively eager for us to place our bets with them. They pay wonderful salaries to armies of mathematicians whose sole duty is to set the odds in favor of the insurance casinos. Not just so they can sustain the business and continue protecting us, but so they can continue to extort from us as much money as is humanly possible, while doing everything in their power to make sure we get the least amount of protection possible . The goal of insurance casinos, the one and ONLY goal, is to make money. There is no other reason for their existence.

I don't have any statistics, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the largest and most powerful lobby in Washington is the insurance lobby. They have incredible wealth and they have incredible power. All that wealth and power gets them a hell of a lot of "influence".

I don't know what the hell McCain's solution is, but it's not nationalized health care, and therefore whatever he's saying is worthless bullshit. I don't know if it's for his own sake, the sake of his buddies, or what, but somewhere in his circle are people who stand to make a lot of money if things stay just as they are. In SOME way, the only reason he drags his feet on this is because it's in his own self-interest to stop, or at least delay, any radical changes to health care in this country.

And it's not just him of course. It's every single damn one of them that aren't working HARD toward making SURE that we all have decent health care. Jesus! I can't imagine a better reason for setting up a goddam society in the first place.

It's going to take some heroic efforts to defeat the insurance companies. I don't know all the details of the candidates positions on this, but I haven't heard a single one talking like what I heard from John Edwards. I'll vote for Hillary or Obama, but I'm certainly not thrilled with either one of them. If they're not talking nationalized health care when they get in office, then fuck 'em. I'll wait 4 more years and hope for Edwards or another champion that, goddamn it, really is running for the common good of us all, and not themselves and their associates.