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Richard Dawkins: Open Letter To A Victim Of Ben Stein's Lying Propaganda

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 10:05 AM
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Richard Dawkins: Open Letter To A Victim Of Ben Stein's Lying Propaganda
http://richarddawkins.net/article,2488,Open-Letter-to-a-victim-of-Ben-Steins-lying-propaganda,Richard-Dawkins

Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda
by Richard Dawkins

On 18th April, the day Ben Stein's infamous film was released, Michael Shermer received the following letter from a Jew (referencing a past article that Shermer had written debunking the Holocaust deniers) whose identity I shall conceal as "David J".

Now I truly understand who you atheists and darwinists really are! You people believe that it was okay for my great-grandparents to die in the Holocaust! How disgusting. Your past article about the Holocaust was just window dressing. We Jews will fight to keep people like you out of the United States!

Shermer wrote to Mr J to ask if he had by any chance just seen Expelled, and he received this reply:

Yes I have. You know, I respect you as a human being and you have done great work exposing psychics and frauds, but this is a very touchy issue that affects me and family emotionally. Our family business was affected because of Auschwitz because now, our family has nothing. It is gone. Things began to make sense once I saw the movie and I am just appalled. I have learned a lot from Ben Stein, a Jewish brother, who has opened my eyes up a bit.

It seemed to me that Ben Stein and his lying crew were more to blame than Mr J himself for his revolting letter. I therefore decided to write him a personal letter and try to explain a few things to him. It then occurred to me (indeed, Michael Shermer suggested as much) that there are probably many others like him, whose minds have been twisted in this evil way by the man Stein, and that it would be a good idea to publish the letter. I decided to wait 24 hours to see if he would reply, although I didn't expect him to. I am now publishing my letter to him, exactly as I sent it to him except that I have removed his name.

Richard


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr J

Michael Shermer forwarded me a letter from you which suggests that you have unfortunately been taken in by Ben Stein's mendacious and/or ignorant suggestion that Darwin is somehow to blame for Hitler. I hope you will not mind if I write to you and try to undo this grievous error.

1. I deeply sympathize with you for the loss of your relatives in the Holocaust. Nevertheless, I don't think that could really be said to justify the tone of your letter to Michael Shermer, who is a kind and decent man, as even you seemed to concede in your second letter to him, and the very antithesis of a Nazi sympathizer.
Now I truly understand who you atheists and darwinists really are! You people believe that it was okay for my great-grandparents to die in the Holocaust! How disgusting. Your past article about the Holocaust was just window dressing. We Jews will fight to keep people like you out of the United States!
Just look at those words of yours. Probably you regret them by now. I certainly hope so, but I'll continue to write my letter to you, on the assumption that you still feel at least a part of what you wrote.

2. Hitler's horrible opinions were not all that unusual for his time, not just in Germany but throughout Europe, including my own country of Britain, by the way. What singled Hitler out was the fact that he somehow managed to come to power in one of Europe's leading nations, which was also one of the world's most technologically advanced nations. Hitler had a lot of support in Germany. His horrible bidding was done by millions of ordinary German footsoldiers, and the great majority of them were Christians. Many were Lutheran, and many (like Hitler himself) were Roman Catholic. Very few were atheists, and whatever else Hitler was he most certainly was not an atheist. It is sometimes said that Hitler only pretended to be Catholic, in order to win the Church's support for his regime. In this he was very largely successful. So, whether or not Hitler was himself a true Catholic (as he often claimed) the Church bears a heavy responsibility for what happened. And Hitler himself used religion to justify his anti-Semitism. For example, here is a typical quotation, from the end of Chapter 2 of Mein Kampf.
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
Hitler's obscene anti-Semitism was able to hold sway in Germany because there was a deeply embedded history of anti-Semitism in Germany, and indeed in Europe generally.

3. Going further back in history, where do we think the toxic anti-Semitism of Hitler, and of the many Germans whose support gave him power, came from? You can't seriously think it came from Darwin. Anti-Semitism has been rife in Europe for many many centuries, positively encouraged by most Christian churches, including especially the two that dominate Germany. The Roman Catholic Church has notoriously persecuted Jews as "Christ-killers". While, as for the Lutherans, Martin Luther himself wrote a book called On the Jews and their Lies from which Hitler quoted. And Luther publicly said that "All Jews should be driven from Germany." By the way, do you hear an echo of those words in your own letter to Michael Shermer, "We Jews will fight to keep people like you out of the United States." Don't you feel just a twinge of shame at those truly horrible words of yours? Don't you feel that, as a Jew, you should feel especially regretful that you used those words?

4. Now, to the matter of Darwin. The first thing to say is that natural selection is a scientific theory about the way evolution works in fact. It is either true or it is not, and whether or not we like it politically or morally is irrelevant. Scientific theories are not prescriptions for how we should behave. I have many times written (for example in the first chapter of A Devil's Chaplain) that I am a passionate Darwinian when it comes to the science of how life has actually evolved, but a passionate ANTI-Darwinian when it comes to the politics of how humans ought to behave. I have several times said that a society based on Darwinian principles would be a very unpleasant society in which to live. I have several times said, starting at the beginning of my very first book, The Selfish Gene, that we should learn to understand natural selection, so that we can oppose any tendency to apply it to human politics. Darwin himself said the same thing, in various different ways. So did his great friend and champion Thomas Henry Huxley.

5. Darwinism gives NO support to racism of any kind. Quite the contrary. It is emphatically NOT about natural selection between races. It is about natural selection between individuals. It is true that the subtitle of The Origin of Species is "Or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life" but Darwin was using the word "race" in a very different sense from ours. It is totaly clear, if you read past the title to the book itself, that a "favoured race" meant something like 'that set of individuals who possess a certain favoured genetic mutation" (although Darwin would not have used that language because he did not have our modern concept of a genetic mutation).

6. There is no mention of Darwin in Mein Kampf. Not one single, solitary mention, not one mention in any of the 27 chapters of this long and tedious book. Don't you think that, if Hitler was truly influenced by Darwin, he would have given him at least one teeny weeny mention in his book? Was he, perhaps, INDIRECTLY influenced by some of Darwin's ideas, without knowing it? Only if you completely misunderstand Darwin's ideas, as some have definitely done: the so-called Social Darwinists such as Herbert Spencer and John D Rockefeller. Hitler could fairly be described as a Social Darwinist, but all modern evolutionists, almost literally without exception, have been vocal in their condemnation of Social Darwinism. This of course includes Michael Shermer and me and PZ Myers and all the other evolutionary scientists whom Ben Stein and his team tricked into taking part in his film by lying to us about their true intentions.

7. Hitler did attempt eugenic breeding of humans, and this is sometimes misrepresented as an attempt to apply Darwinian principles to humans. But this interpretation gets it historically backwards, as PZ Myers has pointed out. Darwin's great achievement was to look at the familiar practice of domestic livestock breeding by artificial selection, and realise that the same principle might apply in NATURE, thereby explaining the evolution of the whole of life: "natural selection", the "survival of the fittest". Hitler didn't apply NATURAL selection to humans. He was probably even more ignorant of natural selection than Ben Stein evidiently is. Hitler tried to apply ARTIFICIAL selection to humans, and there is nothing specifically Darwinian about artificial selection. It has been familiar to farmers, gardeners, horse trainers, dog breeders, pigeon fanciers and many others for centuries, even millennia. Everybody knew about artificial selection, and Hitler was no exception. What was unique about Darwin was his idea of NATURAL selection; and Hitler's eugenic policies had nothing to do with natural selection.

MORE LETTER AT LINK

READ THE COMMENTS SECTION

10. Comment #164748 by Hmmmm on April 20, 2008 at 4:45 pm

I don't think Darwin was responsible for the holocaust...but it does seem to me to a logical end point to a purely naturalistic philosophy based on survival of the fittest. Anyone care to explain the naturalistic basis for morality and compassion? What part of naturalism argues against helping nature out?

16. Comment #164761 by Diacanu on April 20, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Hmmmm-

"but it does seem to me to a logical end point to a purely naturalistic philosophy based on survival of the fittest."

*Facepalm*

*Long, long, long sigh*

Darwinian natural selection isn't a "philosophy", it's the process by which lifeforms evolved.

That's it.

It has nothing to say about how society's should be run, any more than the theory of gravity does.

28. Comment #164779 by Layla Nasreddin on April 20, 2008 at 5:14 pm

"I don't think Darwin was responsible for the holocaust...but it does seem to me to a logical end point to a purely naturalistic philosophy based on survival of the fittest. Anyone care to explain the naturalistic basis for morality and compassion? What part of naturalism argues against helping nature out?"

Look up "naturalistic fallacy" or "Natural Law fallacy" or "appeal to nature," print it out, and keep it taped on your computer monitor until it sinks in. "Ought" cannot be derived from "is"! Just because things are a particular way does not mean that is the way they should be

17. Comment #164762 by Steve Zara on April 20, 2008 at 4:56 pm

"I don't think Darwin was responsible for the holocaust...but it does seem to me to a logical end point to a purely naturalistic philosophy based on survival of the fittest. Anyone care to explain the naturalistic basis for morality and compassion? What part of naturalism argues against helping nature out?"

What part of naturalism argues for helping nature out? Evolution and the idea of survival of the fittest are what is observed in Nature. To imply they should be the basis of ethical decisions is as nonsensical as to suggest that because of we know of the second law of thermodynamics we should all light fires to increase entropy, or that because of Einsteins theory of gravity, using planes is immoral. It's nuts.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm glad Dawkins published this letter
because I am pretty sure the halfwit who wrote the flames to him would find his eyes crossing as he lipread his way through the first paragraph and hit delete before reading the rest.

Unfortunately, the very people who need this kind of information are the people who will consistently find a way to tune it out.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. me too
I only wish he pointed out the party in the US that has often since the Reagan revolution subscribed to social Darwinism is the Republican party. If Ben Stein truly was angry about social Darwinism in politics why does he ignore the popularity of such books as the Bell Curve within the Reagan and post Reagan administration.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Sad, isn't it?
Neocon nutcases like Ben Stein can play into people's fears with a sham of a movie and convince them the up is down and down is up by barely lifting a finger. But any attempt at repeating and reinforcing the truth is met with ignorance, anger and denial.
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. unfortunately
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 10:39 AM by JitterbugPerfume
many people still think that athiesm is evil and insidious . It is hard to believe that the ignorance displayed by Ben Stein can still exist in the 21st century

Dawkins , Shermer and their cohorts are a ray of light in the darkness.




There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Charles Darwin did not mean for his works to be applied to society, just to explaining nature.
Edited on Wed Apr-23-08 10:41 AM by Selatius
It is people who applied what he found to society to justify the might-makes-right or the strongest-survive mentality that are to fault, not Darwin.

The fact that Ben Stein can't comprehend that shows he lacks a lot in terms of logic and reason.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Oh, I think Ben Stein knew exactly what he was doing.
Propaganda isn't intended to be rational and thought-provoking.

It's foundation is half-truths, innuendo and fear, which in this case appears targeted not only at a scientific theory as well as sound scientific education based on such, but also at a segment of our society that is not only largely liberal but which uses that sound science against neocons and their agenda without fear.

If that's true, Stein's movie is pure propaganda produced by a neocon shill and should be loudly panned as such.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. the phrase "survival of the fittest" should be struck from the evolution lexicon...
...and never uttered again. That phrase more than any other comprises the connection between biological natural selection and social Darwinism and its ilk. It is also biologically irrelevant to the process of evolution. Individuals do not evolve (at least not in this sense) and individual survival is tangential to population evolution at best-- note that Dawkins' comments about evolution being an individual process had to do with selection, which operates on individuals, but only populations evolve in any genetic sense.

At any rate, strong individuals can live long, long lives and have no affect upon the evolution of their population if they leave relatively few offspring or if the offspring they produce are not better adapted to their environment than the offspring produced by others. "Survival" is important only in a reproductive context and by itself has no bearing upon evolution at all. "Fitness" is also a matter of reproduction alone, not any of the other qualities we attach to it by connotation.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Darwin did not create that phrase, and is said to have disliked it thoroughly.
It was created by a science popularizer who was trying to simplify the ideas to a level where people with an average (or even below-average) level of literacy could grasp them. Unfortunately, the oversimplification got propagated more widely than the ideas originally behind it -- at least in part because it fit in with contemporary moralistic ideas regarding 'fitness', especially regarding nationality/ethnicity.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Even natural selection implies active consciousness - "to select"
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. .
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