Hey, I just saw a TV ad for the new Honda fuel cell car!

[pepperbear]

http://www.hybridcars.com/hydrogen/honda-production-fuel-cell-car-2008.html

has anyone else seen it yet?

[pleah]

1. K&R 270 mile between refueling. Wow!

[orangerevolution]

3. Is that all, 270 miles?

I get over 320 on a full tank of gas.

[gateley]

6. I think you're missing the point here - or are you being funny? nt

[orangerevolution]

7. If I needed to travel over 300 miles but

only could make it to mile 270, then I would say yes, I missed the point.

[uppityperson]

11. It doesn't use gasoline.

[liberal N proud]

10. 270 miles on a tank of gas is average

I can get more than 300 easy highway driving.

[Indenturedebtor]

2. Too bad we'll have to burn coal to use it!

But yeah it's purty :P

They need to just go all freakin electric already. Googleise the Tesla car my friend. Now that's a sexy ride.

I know you still have to get the electricity to use it but then we don't have to worry about shipping hydrogen all over the place and guess what? We don't have to have Shell supply our hyrdogen. that's why they keep looking for these crappy liquid fuels. Just use some lithium ions already and drop the liquid dammit!

[gateley]

4. Check out this all-electric (or hybrid option)

http://www.aptera.com/

I've been following Tesla for quite awhile. Since there was a shake up at the top, they seem a little less directed, or focused, to me. At least I'm not getting the number of update e-mails from them that I used to. :shrug:)

[girl gone mad]

18. Using batteries..

to fuel automobiles creates a whole host of issues. Waste is a big one, as are initial costs and maintenance costs.

My next car will be a diesel and I'm banking on bio-diesel from algae, switch grass and other sources as a better long term solution to our energy problems. It won't require major investments in infrastructure or mass-production facilities.

[Johnny__Motown]

5. Tesla is sexy but it is using the same batteries as your lap top computer.

I agree electric is the only way to go. There are serious issues about where you get the Hydrogen for fuel cells.

[Jacobin]

8. One idea I have seen for hydrogen for the fuel cells is this

clusters of windmills in the midwest connected to small electrolysis mechanisms that break water down into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen is then gathered through gathering lines much like natural gas gathering lines in natural gas fields to main pipelines which then lead to populated areas where the hydrogen is stored for service stations.

Sometimes these changes seem overwhelming, but I consider what people did in 1910 when vehicles were first coming out. Everyone said it was ridiculous, that you would have to have gasoline filling stations all over the country and paved roads and that it was just too expensive and impractical and that it would never work.

It seems to me that hydrogen production from windmills could be a piece of the solution, although by no means the entirety of the solution.

peace

[IDemo]

13. This is a highly advanced battery system

Yes, using the same 18650 cells (over 6800 of them) found in many laptops, but with a wealth of mechanical and electronic monitoring and safety additions.

http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf

[alfredo]

20. What about the Gallium and Aluminum alloy that breaks down water

into Hydrogen and oxygen?

http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

[KaptBunnyPants]

15. It better be sexy for $100000+

[FedoraLV]

9. That's OK, it's a start!

:loveya:

-FedoraLV

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

12. I think enclosed motorcycles are another option

They offer a bit more protection and they get amazing gas mileage (having an aerodynamic fairing around the motorcycle supposedly increases fuel efficiency up to 35%). They still burn fossil fuels, but I think single passenger vehicles should be promoted, since I see so many people alone in their car driving to work and using enormous amounts of gas in their land yachts.

The Italian-made Adiva (90 miles per gallon of gas):





The German-made BMW C1:



This single seat TECA:



or the Peraves MonoTracer, a two-seat enclosed motorcycle built around a BMW:



or the Ecomobile:



or the Acabion (350 mph top speed - 0 to 300mph in 30 seconds):

[IDemo]

14. These things look like a lot of fun, too -->

The Carver

[TheMightyFavog]

17. Saw quite a few of the C1s when I was in London last summer.

Interesting machines.

[Xithras]

16. FYI, Honda is planning on mass producing these by 2018. You'll be waiting a while.

The Clarity will be available in a limited run only, for lease only, in Southern California only. A small number of them will be available in a closed-end 36 month lease with no buyout provision for $600 a month, and last I heard there were already waiting lists forming. This is simply a test release to see how fuel cell vehicles work in the real world.

The FCX isn't a production car, it's a test platform for the technology. They don't have anything anywhere near production, and there are technical problems that are preventing it from going into mass production right now (primarily that the primary material used in the fuel cell is so expensive that these cars would cost about $100,000 each to buy outright...these lease cars are costing them almost a million each to build).

If you live in Southern California and can afford it, it might be worthwhile to call your local Honda dealership just to see if you can get in on the program. If nothing else, it will be a cool car to drive for a few years.

If you live anywhere else, you get to join me and drool in envy.

By the way, the hydrogen for this car is obtained by hooking it up to the natural gas lines in your home. You'll be shelling out several grand for a Honda Home Energy Station, which will convert the natural gas into pure hydrogen. That part can't be leased.

The short-run Clarity also doesn't look quite as cool as the prototype in your pic above. They made it more "normal" when they decided to actually lease them.



Efficiency wise, it still requires natural gas, and Honda says that its environmental impact is about the same as a car that gets 68MPG

[jmowreader]

19. Are these proton-exchange membrane fuel cells?

The membrane in those cells is made from DuPont Nafion. (Please note that every purchase of an item with a PEM fuel cell in it helps my local economy--Nafion is made in exactly one place on Earth: Fayetteville, NC.) Nafion costs over $1100 per square meter.

[Xithras]

21. Yes, but it's the platinum that drives the cost way up.

The catalyst in these is made of platinum nanoparticles. Platinum, of course, costs over $2000 an ounce. That's always made FC units cost-inefficient. Even worse, the platinum degrades and has to be replaced, which makes fuel cells an expensive nightmare over the longer term.

Toyota announced that they'd developed a platinum free fuel cell design last year that used alkali anion exchange membranes, but it required hydrazine instead of normal hydrogen to work. Hydrazine, of course, is both incredibly toxic AND unstable (read:explosive). No government will ever permit a hydrazine powered car on the road.