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ABC Reports: Condi/Rummy/Powell/Tenent Ashcroft Listened to **Detailed** Torture Briefings!

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:24 AM
Original message
ABC Reports: Condi/Rummy/Powell/Tenent Ashcroft Listened to **Detailed** Torture Briefings!
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 08:35 AM by KoKo01
History Will Not Judge This Kindly"

ABC News' Jan Crawford Greenburg reports:

In dozens of top-secret talks and meetings in the White House, the most senior Bush administration officials discussed and approved specific details of how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency, sources tell ABC News.

The so-called Principals who participated in the meetings also approved the use of "combined" interrogation techniques -- using different techniques during interrogations, instead of using one method at a time -- on terrorist suspects who proved difficult to break, sources said.

Highly placed sources said a handful of top advisers signed off on how the CIA would interrogate top al Qaeda suspects -- whether they would be slapped, pushed, deprived of sleep or subjected to simulated drowning, called waterboarding.

The high-level discussions about these "enhanced interrogation techniques" were so detailed, these sources said, some of the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed -- down to the number of times CIA agents could use a specific tactic.

The advisers were members of the National Security Council's Principals Committee, a select group of senior officials who met frequently to advise President Bush on issues of national security policy.

At the time, the Principals Committee included Vice President Cheney, former National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell, as well as CIA Director George Tenet and Attorney General John Ashcroft. …

Then-Attorney General Ashcroft was troubled by the discussions. He agreed with the general policy decision to allow aggressive tactics and had repeatedly advised that they were legal. But he argued that senior White House advisers should not be involved in the grim details of interrogations, sources said.


According to a top official, Ashcroft asked aloud after one meeting: "Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly."

-------------------------------------

More from another ABC Article: CONDI SAYS...."THIS IS YOUR BABY...GO DO IT!"

Sources: Top Bush Advisors Approved 'Enhanced Interrogation'
Detailed Discussions Were Held About Techniques to Use on al Qaeda Suspects
By JAN CRAWFORD GREENBURG, HOWARD L. ROSENBERG and ARIANE de VOGUE

April 9, 2008—


Then-Attorney General Ashcroft was troubled by the discussions. He agreed with the general policy decision to allow aggressive tactics and had repeatedly advised that they were legal. But he argued that senior White House advisers should not be involved in the grim details of interrogations, sources said.

According to a top official, Ashcroft asked aloud after one meeting: "Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly."

The Principals also approved interrogations that combined different methods, pushing the limits of international law and even the Justice Department's own legal approval in the 2002 memo, sources told ABC News.

At one meeting in the summer of 2003 -- attended by Vice President Cheney, among others -- Tenet made an elaborate presentation for approval to combine several different techniques during interrogations, instead of using one method at a time, according to a highly placed administration source.


A year later, amidst the outcry over unrelated abuses of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the controversial 2002 legal memo, which gave formal legal authorization for the CIA interrogation program of the top al Qaeda suspects, leaked to the press. A new senior official in the Justice Department, Jack Goldsmith, withdrew the legal memo -- the Golden Shield -- that authorized the program.

But the CIA had captured a new al Qaeda suspect in Asia. Sources said CIA officials that summer returned to the Principals Committee for approval to continue using certain "enhanced interrogation techniques."

Then-National Security Advisor Rice, sources said, was decisive. Despite growing policy concerns -- shared by Powell -- that the program was harming the image of the United States abroad, sources say she did not back down, telling the CIA: "This is your baby. Go do it."

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4583256
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Can we remand them over for war crimes trials yet? (NT)
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. War criminals all.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. Not judge this kindly?
The man has a talent for understatement.

If the US does not toss this lot out and start trials, it will be known forever and forever as the most hypocritical nation on earth. The folks who penned the geneva conventions are torturers, and the planning extends to the white house....oh, good.

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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
65. it's only history after-all -- and Rove knows...history can be revised
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. 5 War Criminals. Add to them Chimpy and Dickie.
Let's start there.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Yeah why are not bushitler and dicklesswad on that list?
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. The only thing that makes sense is we torture 'cause they like it so
:cry: :scared:
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #23
50. It's Different For Them
Torture is different for Iraqis than it is for us. It's an important part of their religion and culture to be tortured. It's how they accumulate credits for their afterlife.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. and Condi now represents the US in the world of diplomacy
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
59. That's Madame Vice President to You!
:sarcasm:
(god, the horror)
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. I can't figure out why ABC News is reporting this.
Corporate media and all.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Money maybe?
Perhaps someone thinks that reporting actual news promises to pay more than shilling for companies that are rapidly going bankrupt? Hard to say why, in any case.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Wow, wouldn't that be great!
But, it always comes down to the all-mighty dollar...which is pretty sad when you think about it.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
44. I don't buy that for a minute.
ABC is part of the corporate propaganda ministry. They aren't in business so much to make profits for themselves as to advance the interests of their owners, who have much bigger fish to fry than ad revenue.

Look deeper. I don't know what's going on, but I do know that it's not what it seems. Maybe it's cover for Bush. Maybe it's something else.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. "Somebody" wanted it out there.....and ABC has broken quite a few
stories that weren't favorable to Bush. Brian Ross has broken them. But...as to who the powerful "somebody" is....who can say? Since ABC is what it is...why does it get select stories that aren't passed to NBC/CBS?
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Somebody, like maybe the CIA who want it known they were acting on ze highest authority? nt
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ToughLuck Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. Thats what i think too.
Also, at VanityFair website, read this months "The Green Light"...this story is quite telling about torture in Iraq and Guantanamo and also highlights a case the US brought against a lawyer involved during the Nazi war period..it is the only case where a lawyer was tried and convicted for doing his legal duties..apparently that is very rare. The author also claims that Yoo should not leave the country, as well as the other war criminals in the Bush administration...these guys don't have immunity outside USA..even with the Military Commission Act.
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horseshoecrab Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #35
49. Also think this ToughLuck
still waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I think the other shoe is going to be more revelations. CIA is not going to be standing there holding the bag on this one.

horseshoecrab
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. We always thought there were a "few good folks" in the CIA...if so
then it's good they are still out there trying to get the word out. Condi's "Go Baby" statement was so disgusting. No wonder they are pushing her for VP for McCain! I can see her with whips and chains standing at the gate of a Gulag type Cell Block. Cracking the whip as we "taser victims, who survived" pass through to the "next stage." :scared:

What's sad is that I never liked Colin Powell but he comes out as quite evil in this report. No matter how many excuses we make for him...it seems he was up to his eyballs in this and maybe "enjoyed the 'detailed' reports as much as the rest. I'm willing to bet that they had videos...It must have been like a sadist frat party.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. I see you're on board the paranoia wagon.
Right here beside me. (As so often, eh, KoKo?)

And remember Colin "My Lai" Powell has NEVER had clean hands.
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
31. That was my reaction too.
My guesses as to why:

Hedging their bets, so that if sanity ever returns, they won't be among the 100% discredited.

Seeing the handwriting on the wall.

Just a web hit-and-run article, so that they can say sometime in the future, "We covered that." But it won't appear on the TV news and they won't ever mention it again.

"Someone" has made a decision.

"Somewhere" there is a disgruntled faction or a policy dispute.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. There is Saint Colin in there in the mess of things, as usual.
So where is the news about this? And why is Shrub ALWAYS left out of the lists?


As for a Dem Justice Dept looking into war crimes------HAH!1 Ain't gonna happen!1
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
64. who would have guess that Ashcroft was the one to express reservations
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
9. So if ashcroft figured it was all legal
why in the hell did he have an issue with the administration discussing the details?

Do these people really think we are that fucking stupid?
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JimboDem Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
10. Paging Speaker Pelosi........
do your elected duty upon which you swore an oath.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Uhm...can't take care of that right now.
Not in an election year!
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. You can bet that these meetings were videotaped for later use ....
... and that may explain why Powell and others have slipped off into public obscurity, for fear that their participation will be used against them.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Good point! nt
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. More chairs at the War Crimes Tribunals.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
16. ABC?. . REALLY? Now that's a good thing. Maybe a few more
Americans will find out about it now.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
17. can we arrest them now, can't we do a Citizens arrest???
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. Video of this ABC News report is at this link ...
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. notice POWELL is included here
the man many Americans still hold in high regard.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. So when are the impeachment hearings ... oh wait
forgot, off the table

:sarcasm:
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. That baby should be aborted. Make Condi resign!
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Didn't most of us know that Busholini was lying when he
claimed over & over that "We don't torture." Now we have the proof that he was lying.

What will be done about it?
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. Holy shit.
Does ABC have hard evidence to back this up? Isn't this a smoking gun?
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. Isn't it funny that Bush wasn't invited to these important meetings.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
43. he was too busy...
smearing shit on the white house bathroom walls after a fix. you don't think he is ever involved in policy I'm sure, as neither do I.

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
29. Better late than never I guess.
ICC? They'll all just get pardons if it's "handled" here.
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YDogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
30. was there ever any doubt?
they all knew. they all approved.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
32.  these people are deranged and evil
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
56. You're right. The reason I know this is because they have to be
sleeping at night. How CAN they? They're deranged and evil. Most people would be nuts with having been part of this horrible side show.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #56
60. You Would Think.... Maybe They Are Lizard People Afterall?
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
33. I won't feel like I'm truly in America, the promise of the founders gave us until these war criminal
are prosecuted. Drip drip? I want a flood already! what is it going to take? And it's not enhanced or harsh interrogation techniques! It's torture. Until they are locked up we are all tainted by their acceptance of this evil in our names.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
34. Condi's giveaway baby
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
36. is congress gathering to protect our constitution from these criminals
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
37. but our fucking lying goddam president said 'we don't torture' ONLY CONGRESS CAN STOP THIS
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Middle finga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
38. I guess that's why old Colin is trying to cozy up to the democratic
candidates in his recent interview. In case the dems when he's probably hoping they sweep he and his criminal cohorts crimes under the rug.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
39. That presentation no doubt gave Rummy a woodie nt
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brindis_desala Donating Member (866 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
41. But Reverend Wright "hates America"
These scum have no idea what the best of this country stands for.

"The creation of crimes after the fact, and the practice of arbitrary imprisonments have been, in all ages, the favorite and most formidable instruments of tyranny."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Preening Fop Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
42. As will always be expected of our specie, add to the long list another Imperial Ghoulish Government.
:nuke: :hide: :nuke:
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
46. Colin Powell? You mean Obama military adviser
Powell? Yikes. I don't like that! I certainly wish he had better advisors if he is going to be so popular and maybe get to be the president. That was a problem before 2000...no one looked at the people around Bush and just wanted to have a beer with the alcoholic playboy and it is a nightmare.
:grr:
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
47. Ghouls. War crime charges need to be brought up to all of them. n/t
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
48. Wait! Isn't there an endangered blonde girl somewhere? And, hey, what's up with Britney?
If this story lasts an entire news cycle, I'll be surprised.
Too many other more important "news stories" are competing for limited bandwidth.

Besides, "America doesn't torture."

End of story.
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Taitafalcon Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
51. Let see if I've got this straight...
If this story is correct, our top diplomat, the SoSUS, knew the details of the US acts of torture as the NSA; performed a coup d'etat on one of her colleagues to get his job; and failed at almost every diplomatic effort since gaining that job at the jeopardy of this nation. Now there is a popular notion among many that we should give her a promotion to VP this fall.
Exactly when do we learn? She was there when we were attacked; She has lied about everything; she hasn't stopped the N.Koreans from threatening us and our allies in the region. Then Arabs don't listen to her, the Israelis barely show up to the meetings that no effect on bringing peace to the middle east; Iraqi is a mess. Exxon has named a ship for her for God sakes... Are we as a nation really this stupid? If so, things are worse than I thought....
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Peanut Butter Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
52. Citizens Arrest Anyone ?
They should televise the hanging.:grr:
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Taitafalcon Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. I know...
I believe there may be more to this story... I say we use 'harsh interrogation methods' to find out....
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
54. To the Hague with the lot of them.
I know that a snowball has a better chance of surviving in the devil's domain than any of these people seeing the inside of a jail cell but I can still hope for it.
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raebrek Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
55. I think it is a setup
They release this breaking story. Then someone follows up and we amazingly find out which Dem's that are up for election were also present.

Raebrek!!!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Everyone present and involved should face justice. Justice shouldn't be based on party affiliation.
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raebrek Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #57
62. I agree
I just think that the "setup" that I suggest allows the media to call for their heads over and over again until the entire country is angry about it. Then when the anger is greatest release a list of the other people that are present that may be running for election this year thus helping to eliminate support for them.

Raebrek!!!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
58. You can do evil things, you just can't talk about them, and you must attack anyone else
who is doing them. - Republican Morality 101
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
61. re-kick
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
63. in the past the RUDE PUNDIT has had some interesting words to say


about Rove, Cheney, and torture in the W.H. basement.

must be in his archives somewhere. warning, not for the weak of heart.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
66. The soldiers that were prosecuted and sent to prison need to cry foul
and their attorneys should demand that congress impeach. Of course, Congress won't do anything unless Bushco is caught barbecueing american troops on the Truman balcony.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
67. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
68. Monkey out of the loop?
Don't think so.

Here his ideological predecessor thinks about stuff...

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:46 PM
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69. .
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