Christians say kids' dress-up day promotes alternative lifestyles

[meegbear]

An elementary-school event in which kids were encouraged to dress as members of the opposite gender drew the ire of a Christian radio group, whose angry broadcast prompted outraged calls to the district office.

Students at Pineview Elementary in Reedsburg, Wisconsin, had been dressing in costume all last week as part of an annual school tradition called Wacky Week. On Friday, students were encouraged to dress either as senior citizens or as members of the opposite sex.

A local resident informed the Voice of Christian Youth America on Friday. The Milwaukee-based radio network responded by interrupting its morning programming for a special broadcast that aired on nine radio stations throughout Wisconsin. The broadcast criticized the dress-up day and accused the district of promoting alternative lifestyles.

"We believe it's the wrong message to send to elementary students," said Jim Schneider, the network's program director. "Our station is one that promotes traditional family values. It concerns us when a school district strikes at the heart and core of the Biblical values. To promote this to elementary-school students is a great error."

<snip>

http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2008/04/07/4

[DesertFlower]

1. Jesus H. Christ. nt

[MADem]

3. Now THAT would have been an interesting costume!!!! NT

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. I wish I went to that school

I looked great in a dress when I was a little boy! Everyone told me I have great legs when I did it at Halloween.

:{

[Parche]

4. Its About Time

We took the bible out of everyday life, and burned it.............

:hi:

[gratuitous]

27. Yeah, that whole "serve one another in love" crap needs incineration in the worst way

Good thinking, Comrade!

[dmallind]

35. Yeah because that's all that the bible contains

No genocidal maniac deity for the first two thirds of it and petulant spoiled narcissist deity who inflicts infinite punishment for being insufficiently grovelling in the last third.

[Occulus]

46. That's the excuse they use when they tell me I'm going to hell for being gay.

It has been my observation that the tenets if the bible (sic) are used by its adherents primarily as a method of control and not as a vehicle to express love.

Nice try, though. Better luck next time.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

48. Oh yea because secular man has no experience

finding ay to control people via fear and passing it off as love..

*Dont* confuse what some do in the name of God with God himself..

[gratuitous]

49. Oh, but it's so much easier to live with the confusion

Lets one off the hook for making any distinctions or differences, and blanket bigotry (from the right or the left) is soooo quick, with the immediate gratification and whatnot.

[brentspeak]

52. You've conducted very few observations, then.

It sounds like all you've observed in this regard are the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons who parade themselves on TV.

[Toasterlad]

55. Without Knowing KG, I Can Tell You He Didn't Need To "Observe" Anything.

He gets righteous christians throwing that message in his face all the time without having to conduct a single poll. And so do I.

[Occulus]

65. I'm basing my observations upon every self-professed christian I've ever been exposed to

More than thirty years of hearing christians proselytize- and I count proselytization as including the common "it was god's will" and "god saved us" and "god works in mysterious ways"- has led me to this conclusion.

The christian god, it seems, saves some and condemns others. NOT my idea of a 'good' god.

This is a blanket observation encompassing ALL christians.

The religion is faulty. One might even go so far as to say, the religion is false.

This doesn't even touch what christians actually do. They belie their faith. ALL of them. And never mind the whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" shit, because it invariably leads to hating the sinner. It is not possible to separate the one from the other. If the 'sin'- being gay- is an integral part of the person, the ultimate end is hate for the person. christians (sic) cannot separate the two, hence the hate for homosexuals as people, and not homosexuality as behavior.

All ye christians, that cross you wear around your neck, to me, means "I might beat you up or kill you", regardless of your political position. I don't care if you're conservative or liberal- if you are wearing a cross, I must assume you might kill me for being me, for my own safety's sake.

I don't mean to start a flame war. This is a reality for me and a whole lot of others. YOUR RELIGION HATES US. Period.

Fix it.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

71. I see what Pol Pot did to people who disagreed

and assume anyone with communist symbols might kill me, despite their political beliefs..

[HughBeaumont]

5. Absolutely Amazing and Astounding.

We have WAY more important things to be worrying about, fuckers. You know, things such as rampant religious zealotry overtaking the way we govern and parent . . . oh wait . . .

[rateyes]

6. Which sex is the opposite one?

:shrug:

[niyad]

12. good one

I wonder if they are aware of the clothing styles of pre-revolutionary france, for example? everyone wore wigs and makeup, at least amoung the aristos.

[dysfunctional press]

50. well...for the boys- it would be girls, and for the girls- it would be boys.

you really should be talking about this with your parents, though- not just trying to pick up on the facts of life at some sleazy internet site.

[dmallind]

7. But they worship a guy who walked around in basically a dress?

Yeah yeah yeah I know - he wore men's clothes of the time and who am I to sit here with my twentieth century WASP sensibilities and say that just because the men's clothing of the time resembled a shapeless cinched dress...


That's kind of the point though.

And I'm a guy who knows his dress size ;)

Admittedly it's 24W and I wore it once a year in a Solstice follies sketch of some kind but hey - Jerry Garcia wig, canvas belt and a rake with the tool end removed and I do a killer Moses in it.

[Tikki]

8. How is this any different then letting the little....

darlins' dress up as a princess or a king. They're never going to be one.



Tikki

[niyad]

14. don't forget, they don't like halloween, either.

[terrya]

9. You mean when Dustin Hoffman did "Tootsie"...

he was promoting an "alternative lifestyle"???

Dear GOD! That's horrible! :eyes:

You can't underestimate the sheer, breathtaking level of stupidity these bigots can achieve.

[niyad]

10. gosh, if they had dressed as atheists, that silly person from IL could have screamed at them.

[niyad]

11. note to fundies: if you don't like what is going on in PUBLIC schools,

then shut the hell up and send your offspring to your ultra-conservative, non-educating parochial schools and leave the rest of us alone. we do NOT have to conform to YOUR narrow, ignorant, bigoted world view, nor shrink our world down to fit yours.

[BOSSHOG]

16. And

have their little kiddies exposed to the alternative lifestyle of pedophilia. Poor persecuted christians. Everybody's evil but them.

[bunkerbuster1]

22. They can't afford to, and they're bitter about that.

Seriously, only about 10% of all American kids are educated in private schools of any kind. Here in my home state of GA it's only about 5%.

They can't send their kids to Jesus Camp, so they want the public schools to become Jesus Camp. Assholes.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

24. "non-educating parochial schools"

Really?

College Board SAT Scores-2006
Type of School 	SATWR 	SATVER 	SATMAT 	SAT-total
Public          492 	500 	514 	1506
Parochial 	528 	531 	529 	1588
Independent 	550 	544 	573 	1667

Type of College,Public High Schools,Private High Schools
4-Year College 	49.6% 	94.9%
2-Year College 	26.6% 	5.1%

[dmallind]

37. Self selected samples are wonderful things

Even the Bengals can beat 53 random guys off the street.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

41. This is not self selected

When you take the SAT you put the school you attend, the only people with an option to not do this is home schoolers. But hey maybe you can find something *anything* to back up the assertion that kids in parochial schools don't get educated?

[dmallind]

47. couple of issues with that

1) The self selection is in who the parochial schools will accept, and who even applies - not in the allocation of SAT results they supply. When your parents don't care about your education, you're not likely to go to a parochial school. When you are an ESL student or in poverty or have behavior issues, you're not likely to go to a parochial school or be accepted by one in many cases. usually those traits also bode ill for your SAT results on the aggregate. When parochial schools only get by definition motivated parents, and can be and usually are far more selective in accepting students who might not be the best and the brightest or the most advantaged, you are not dealing with equal populations. Parochial schools can pick their students - with few exceptions quite selectively. Public schools with equally few exceptions can not. When the population of parochial students is a random allocation of kids of all abilities, with any and all disabilities, and with parents who run the gamut from apathetic to antagonistic as well as involved and interested, then it will be a fair comparison. Until then it really is like saying an NFL fanchise can outscore 53 random guys. Give me my pick of students and parents who care and I'll give you a better SAT average than any of those myself.

2) I didn't say parochial schools are non educating. That was someone else. I disagree with that - but I also disagree with your way of proving otherwise. I suspect - and only suspect because again not me - they were intending to attack, and quite appropriately, the schools who teach creationism instead of science and apologetics instead of critical thinking. This is not all parochial schools and is only a subset of what even that segment of them do, but it deserves criticism.

[last_texas_dem]

67. I bet the public schools could raise their test scores to the same level as the parochial schools

if they, like the parochial schools, could pick and choose who they decided to let attend them.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

72. No doubt but to say that such schools

dont educate and provide *zero* evidance to back it up is worse than me posting the SAT scores..

[pleah]

43. Bravo!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[no_hypocrisy]

13. Does that mean if I don't wear dresses and skirts, and opt for jeans, I'll become a lesbian?

And how 'bout them kilts in Scotland? Any reports of gender confusion yet?

[dmallind]

15. a)yes - see 2 Timothy b)only with the sheep. NT

;;k

[niyad]

17. I cannot remember the last time there was a dress in my closet, and I am

pretty sure I am not a lesbian (although, all my years working for women's rights, got called that a lot, as though it were some sort of insult, and I was expected to cringe in shame)

[meegbear]

19. I wore my this part weekend at a bar in Las Vegas ...

and there was no confusion there.

[niyad]

18. definite nomination for KO's worst tonight

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. The only thing sending the wrong message here are the fundies

[Fox Mulder]

21. Jesus Christ.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

23. Honestly as a parent I would have trouble with this..

"An elementary-school event in which kids were encouraged to dress as members of the opposite gender"

Why encourage something which might offend some parents?

Now I will say this: If it was just a dress up day and some kids of their own accord cross dressed that would be completely different (fine imho).

[Fleshdancer]

30. out of curiosity, why would this offend you? eom

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

31. To be honest it does offend my religious sensibilities

its one thing for a person to do something that offends people of a given race/religion its another for a state employee to encourage others to do so.

Like I said if it was dress up day (or even if its not) and some boy wants to dress as a girl (or vice versa) that all well and good and is within their rights. But when a teacher says everybody do X the decision needs to be made much more carefully.. It would be like a class with Muslims or Jews have a teacher encourage a kid to bring spam for lunch. Should kids be banned from brining spam? no.. should a teacher encourage it? no!!

Im not ready to march in the streets over this or anything I just think its bad judgment on the part of the teacher/school to do this.

[Marr]

68. I didn't realize the Bible forbade cross dressing.

Is it your *religious* sensibilities that are being upset here, or just your own? I understand your opposition to this thing-- but I don't think we can pass this gut reaction off as something ordained by god.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

70. There are parts of both the NT and OT

where men are instructed to present themselves in a masculine way and women in a feminine manner so it is my religious sensibilities (not that separating the two is at all easy).

"Duet 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."

"Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. (NIV, 1 Peter 3:2-5)"

--

Now there are also parts of the NT which tell Christians who are 'strong' to bear with those that are 'weak' ( in the freedom of Grace ) the specific case involved meat that had been a sacrificed to other gods. So as a Christian if a brother came to me and said cross dressing is fine I could *with all other things also considered* let it slide as not a sin for them. In other words 'it depends' wish I could do better than that but it is *certainly* reasonable for a Christian to determine that cross dressing is *not* ok for Christians and many *many* Christians determine just that.

I will say that even in those cases Christians need to use this as an educational opportunity for their kids spiritual growth and not a chance to rabble rouse lord know there are harder things for Christian parents to deal with than a dress up day.

But the school really should have considered religious sensibilities before encouraging something.

[lukasahero]

75. How exactly does a little girl dress as the opposite gender?

I think it's pretty obvious that in 2008 little girls and little boys very often dress exactly alike (i.e. - in pants) so the real issue people are having with this is putting little boys in dresses - feminizing them.

Women/girls behaving, dressing, acting like men/boys = a-ok.
Men/boys behaving, dressing, acting like women/girls - not so much.

And the devaluation of the feminine continues.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

76. This has nothing to do with devauling the Feminine

My Daughters are feminine, my wife is feminine..

But if you look at 'pants' there are differences between popular girls and boys cuts. If a little boy wore a pair of hip huggers if would be obvious those are not boys pants.

In the same manner girls who wear boys cuts and wear their hair in a masculine fashion get labeled 'tomboys'. Walk into a target or other clothing store there is a girls section and a boys section and the pants sold in each are pretty different.

--

If you look at my other post you'll see that I think 'protesting' this is going a little far but it can and does offend the religious sensitivities of many Christians and it would have been wiser for the school to *not* go down that road.

Ive also said that Christians need to respect the fact there is a secular government and while they may want to use this as an opportunity to grow in faith its not worth rabble rousing over..

[LanternWaste]

25. Incredible...

My own church sponsors a Powder-Puff flag football event every year, no age limits either-- three year olds, thirty year olds and sixty-five year old have all been on the field at one time or another.

Our pastor himself dresses in his wife's evening gowns (he's a small guy) and leads the cheers in makeup and jewelry. (I tried it once, but it turns out I don't have the legs or the hips to do a skirt any justice...)



But then again, ours is a small church-- like most churches in America. And, like most churches in America we don't really have a bully-pulpit (or, in this case, a studio) to entice the news coverage that colors the perceptions of many people on church.

No-- it's usually (and unfortunately) only the big churches that represent themselves more than the Gospel that gets the media's (and hence, the publics) attention.

[DCKit]

26. Had they done blackface, would there have been any complaint from the RW?

Just wondering.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

28. Had they done blackface would there be complaints from the left?

[DCKit]

32. Of course there would, but it wouldn't have made the news.

Bait much?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

34. You really dont think a teacher telling kids to

dress n black face would make the news?

http://blogs.citypages.com/canderson/2005/04/crackerwatchteacher_resigns_af.php

This also made the AP, and Faux (but I wont post the faux link)

[gollygee]

36. Usually kids come up with the ideas of what to wear during dress-up week

My daughter goes to a K-5th grade school and the student council decides what kids will wear on dress-up days, not any adults. I'm sure the principal could veto it if he thought it was a problem, but maybe the principal at that school didn't make the "dressing up as the opposite sex spreads teh gayz" connection.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

39. And, were that the case, I would be fine with it

but when a teacher takes an active role in something they should be damn careful to consider the benefit vs the pain point for some students and their families.. The way I'm reading this is the teacher and or administration (this was more than one class) encouraged this.

--

So if my kid came home and said 'all the kids decided they wanted to do x' I would do one of two things

1) Keep my kid home that day and explain we have a diverse secular culture and while the rights of others are to be respected our family culture may prevent us from partaking. Id probably take them out to a movie or the zoo that day so its a fun day for them..

2) Explain to them why we don't do X and tell them part of our culture is a diversity of people. Send them to school with some other costume..

Honestly I don't know which I would do..

[gollygee]

44. Whole schools do dress-up days and it's only encouraged in that

after the kids decide what the dress-up days will be, the school puts up posters, announces it, etc. This is very common and it's done in schools all over the country. I don't see why this particular dress-up day is more offensive than an 80s day, or PJs day, or the other types of silly dress-up days schools have.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

45. One of the Church fathers

Paul addressed this in certain churches telling men to dress and present themselves in a masculine fashion and women in a feminine one. Now in the spirit of bearing with brothers and sisters in Christ one can make the argument (and a good one) that this is completely different.

I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to the interpretation of the Bible.

Like I said I'm not ready to march in the streets I just think you need to consider if you're sticking your finger in the eyes of students.

--

I can understand why people are offended but I can also understand that if this is a case of a bunch of kids deciding to dress a certain way (again its very unclear from the article how this happened) that Christian parents should use this as a chance to educate their kids more in the Faith then to huff and puff about the world.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

74. BTW

Is it baiting to point out that their is hypocrisy when people pretend that only people on the right pick and choose what they will be outraged about?

Many here are playing it off because it offends 'the enemy' e.g. Conservative Christians but if it offended another group people would be calling for the teachers head on a platter..

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

29. Dupe

[TlalocW]

33. Now that I know that stuff like this encourages kids to be teh gay

It's not so amazing that all 4 years of high school, the football team and cheerleaders would exchange outfits for a supposed "charity" powder-puff football game. I must have been sick with chicken-pox when my grade school had their wacky week.

TlalocW

[AnnInLa]

38. As a Senior Citizen,

As a senior citizen, I am outraged, outraged!!

( I may not be a senior citizen yet, but am close enough to be outraged. Or something.)

[Dr Fate]

40. Anyone remember the old "Womanless Wedding" skits?

So I guess all the male teachers & students participating in those turned gay- yeah, sure.

[HuffleClaw]

42. they just wanted some free publicity

what a crock

[brentspeak]

51. That's a broad-brush of a thread title, don't you think?

A few individuals who label themselves as "Christians" are now inferred to represent the majority?

[Toasterlad]

54. Sensitive Much?

If people who are christian said it, than there's nothing at all wrong with the thread title. It's not the OP's fault that some bat-shit crazy christians are making the rest of you look bad.

[brentspeak]

58. Since the vast majority of Americans identify themselves as "Christians"

why not just have a thread title that says "Americans say dress-up day promotes alternative lifestyles"? Sounds logical, doesn't it?

[Toasterlad]

60. Perfectly Logical, And Perfectly Correct.

However, since the people were objecting on ostensibly religious grounds, their religion is pertinent to the article, and it useful context to identify them as such. Again, not the OP's fault that christian doctrine is rife with sexual hangups.

[JerseygirlCT]

53. Elementary school kids - what the heck is so different clothing-wise

anyway?

jeans or shorts/ t-shirts or sweaters... all pretty non-sexed to my eye.

Besides, the whole idea that there are gender appropriate clothing choices and that not choosing accordingly is going to somehow "turn" kids gay???

So stupid.

[Rocknrule]

56. These people would boycott telephone companies because they inevitably serve homosexuals

[SalmonChantedEvening]

57. Schneider, stay the hell out of Philly during our Mummer's Day parade.

Your shallow near-empty head might explode.

Spy networks? Oops, forgot this is Bushler's Amurka. :grr:

[Harry Monroe]

59. I think I'll dress up as a bible thumpin' Christian Far Right Conservative

Then I can turn into an asshole

[Harry Monroe]

61. And I'm wearing my wife's panties as we speak!!

But, I mistakenly grabbed one of her thongs. I've getting a wedgie from the thin "anal floss". Not comfortable at all, but I'm feeling pretty lesbian right about now!!

[Firespirit]

62. This makes my blood boil

I don't see the fundies' actions as being anti-gay so much as anti-transgender. If there ARE any transgender or transsexual kids at that school, they probably thoroughly enjoyed this day. I've read about T kids feeling more comfortable in the other sex's clothing even at a very young age, before they necessarily know about their gender identity issue -- or recognize it for what it is, at any rate. This event, and those like it in other schools, could be a catalyst for those children to recognize exactly what it is that makes them feel "different."

The crap that transgender kids go through is soul-destroying. I've read about T teenagers being forced into deep self-denial and loathing because of toxic conservative environments that quash any harmless experimentation with gender identity, even things as innocuous as dressing up or playing with "boys' toys" or "girls' toys." I am in favor of anything that might help them realize why they are different as early as possible.

These fundies just have to piss all over it, don't they? They really do not get that THEY are why LGBT kids in right-wing communities are so miserable.

[varelse]

63. Most "boy's clothing" is now acceptable for either gender

are they out there protesting the girls who come to school in blue jeans and t-shirts on any other day of the school year?

:shrug:

[Initech]

64. God these people are stupid.

Either that or they desperately need hobbies. So what they're saying is that if I decide to wear a dress instead of a pair of jeans for one day that I'll automatically become "one of them"? Give me a fucking break. :banghead:

[and-justice-for-all]

66. Delusional nutters are scared of everything...

I wish they would never leave their homes.

[clyrc]

69. My very religious grandpa dressed as a woman for Halloween

once, a long time ago, and I have pictures to prove it. My Middle School had an equivalent of Wacky Week, and I dressed like a boy, and I don't remember anyone changing sexual orientation afterwards. I don't think anyone even considered the possibility, to tell the truth.

[Echo In Light]

73. Good. Hope it really rattles their cage. "Wrong message" = Untraditional

[JohnnyLib2]

77. I happen to know a local student who is a student council member

and an active member of two Christian youth groups, as were several other members. That group used "opposites day" as one of 5 different pep rally themes. As in Wisconsin, they were sharply criticized by a few parents with much publicity. My young friend was hurt, confused, shocked at first. It was as clear a case of youthful fun being viewed as wicked as I have encountered.

I suspect the seeds of anger and division are spread with episodes like this.

:thumbsdown:

[windoe]

78. An easy way out would be to make participation

in 'opposites day' optional, and offer an alternative to actually dressing up if people are offended!! Not recognizing that this exercise may offend some people's religious beliefs was the teacher' mistake. This exercise could be an opportunity for all participants to learn about the real world, and open discussion about how diverse cultures and religions and lifestyles respect each other, and leave it at that.
If we cannot teach or learn tolerance in the schools, than we are truly screwed.

[apocalypsehow]

79. Help me Rhonda, but some folks are stupid.

"Wacky Week" must be part of the long-term "war on Christmas" I keep hearing so much about... :eyes:

[Wizard777]

80. My school made me dress up like a Pilgrim. I've never been the same.

I don't think these people are christians at all. I think they are witches that should be burnt at the stake.

[LeftHander]

81. "Elderphobes!!"

I've been dressing in old person's clothes and living as a octogenarian since I was 12. And I've been retired living on a fix income since I was 17.

They just don't understand that I was born a 83 year old trapped in a infant's body.

[Elidor]

82. Fundamentalists of all religions

Suck the joy out of life, demand that others live according to their precepts, sow discord, and long for the day when they can smite "God's enemies," meaning all who are different. It's a mental disease. I have more sympathy for used car salesmen than I do for fundies and all their bullshit.