Gonzales and Addington went to Iraq to witness torture...Phillpe Sands Documents

[KoKo]

Here's the link to the interview with Sands on Democracy Now! He talks about his article in Vanity Fair where he suggests that Addington, Haynes and Yoo can be prosecuted for International War Crimes.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/4/3/the_green_light_attorney_philippe_sands

The Green Light: Attorney Philippe Sands Follows the Bush Administration Torture Trail

A new exposé in Vanity Fair by British attorney Philippe Sands reveals new details about how attorney John Yoo and other high-ranking administration lawyers helped design and implement the interrogation policies seen at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and secret CIA prisons. According to Vanity Fair, then-White House counsel Alberto Gonzales and other top officials personally visited Guantanamo in 2002, discussed interrogation techniques and witnessed interrogations. Sands joins us in our firehouse studio.

[kentuck]

1. It's all much worse than any of us have imagined...

Do you believe they only tortured 3 people?? Do you believe any people died while under interrogation? How widespread do you think it was? Do you think Abu Graib was unique and out of the ordinary? Do you think the orders did not come from the highest levels of government? Then we have a bridge you may be interested in?

[KoKo]

3. I think the revelation that Gonzales, Addington were there to witness the

torture is an incredible revelation...

I believe it's worse...in the numbers tortured. But, Bushies will find some way to get around the Renditions. I think it's good that Sands is focusing on the Lawyers...because starting "small" then "working up" might be a good strategy? :shrug:

I read the article in VF (and it was really hard to get through without throwing up) but the interview with Sands by Amy Goodman makes it all even clearer.

I am hoping we can pursue these War Criminals to the ends of the Earth...like the Mossad did to the Nazi's who escaped and thought they'd get away with it and those who managed to finally get Pinochet for his crimes.

But, the Mainstream Media and Cables aren't covering this at all. I can see a screaming CNN/MSNBC HEADLINE:

GONZALES WITNESSED TOTURE IN IRAQ !

But, as yet, I've not heard a peep and I listened to Blitzer's two hour coverage this a.m. and to the cables after the "VF" Article was posted out there on the Blogs...and not a peep.

The "CoverUp" is just incredible ...what they do. :-(

[indepat]

21. Just confirming my long-held thesis: they torture because they like it

:cry:

[cliffordu]

34. Yeah.....

I hate to say it, but I think you're right.


goddammit.


:banghead:

[bobthedrummer]

2. "Freedom is on the march"="Arbeit macht frei"

:argh:

[bobthedrummer]

4. Knowledgeable plane watchers have followed a money trail to some

of the air "assets" used in black budget operations including rendition flights. Some of these "commercial" aircraft have "contracts" for fueling at military sites. John Young's Cryptome.org recently linked to a pdf that documents this fact.

"Fuel Purchase Agreement (FPA) Commercial Customers Defense Energy Support Center"
http://www.desc.dla.mil/DCM/Files/TB%20Web%20Report.pdf

[KoKo]

6. We have to hope those "eyewitness plane spotters" and other citizens

will prevail years down the road to HOLD "THEM" ACCOUNTABLE!

[Supersedeas]

35. if only the rest of the Bar Association would join Sands to seek some accountability

[williesgirl]

5. k&r

[bobthedrummer]

7. "Yoo's Memo Hints at Bush's Secrets" by Jason Leopold (4-6-2008 Consortium News)

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/040608a.html

"Building a Legal Framework for Torture" by Jason Leopold (4-3-2008 Consortium News)
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/040308a.html

"In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom: CIA 'no touch' torture makes sense out of mind control allegations" by Cheryl Welsh (January 2008 Mind Justice)
http://www.mindjustice.org/wisdom.htm

[bahrbearian]

8. I bet they sent post-cards home to chimpy

"Having a great time wish you where here"

[InfiniteNether]

9. They were probably spanking off as they watched.

One can only hope that these creatures get hanged at The Hague.

[EFerrari]

10. When the torture tape scandal broke, some of us speculated

that the WH, not CIA, was directing and watching torture. We were thinking Cheney but also Addington, "Cheney's Cheney". That was mid-December or so.

[Solly Mack]

13. I remember that.

and for a long time now, "jokes" (cough-cough) about Cheney off watching torture when no one could find him.

[EFerrari]

14. Three links.

Former CIA investigator says they torture on WH orders
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2445931

This thread asks when we should have known torture was Bush policy.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2473964


This thread speculates about a live feed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2491057

And remember, shortly after the tape story surfaced, there's a fire in Cheney's offices?

[Solly Mack]

16. Yes! on the fire in Cheney's office.

And I still think Bush watched as well.

That entire administration is sick and criminal.

[Supersedeas]

22. Addington should be forced to testify under oath--but Muk Muk Muksey will not dignify a

subpoena request

[EFerrari]

11. Here is Paul Thompson's timeline for the tape scandal, fyi.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2488161

[Echo In Light]

15. Thanks for that

[KharmaTrain]

12. This Is A Shame We All Wear...

THese war crimes were committed "in our name" by these chickenshits who have been wrong every step of the turn and have yet to even admit their mistakes. This is just another example that WE must hold thse goons accountable...it's the only way this country can restore any "moral standing" in the world.

It's not just beyond me why these shits felt the need to pull this crap, but what they hoped to achieve. Sadistic bastards...may we never forget these crimes and hound them until they're forced to face their crimes.

[EFerrari]

17. Kick

[Lars39]

18. K&R

[ThomWV]

19. Unless he has travel records - which would exist - then you can call this Horseshit

There would be travel records for both men, there would be charges from contractos (Blackwater?) for guarding them, there would be a mass of communications between our military and diplomatic heads and Washington both before and after the trip, they might even have made it into some newspapers at the time. In short when two men of such high rank travel to a war zone someone has to notice and something has to end up being written down. There also have to be people who saw, greeted, and waved goodby to them, produce some of those folks. Give a date - just saying 2002 doesn't cut it.

[EFerrari]

20. There are people who saw. Two of them were lawyers at Gitmo

and one was the Southcom commander.

PHILIPPE SANDS: Well, I’ve spoken for the first time, or at least people I’ve spoken with have for the first time now become publicly identified as closely involved. Diane Beaver was the lawyer down at Guantanamo. Mike Dunlavey was her boss. General Hill was the commander of United States SouthCom based at Miami. I’ve spoken to all three of them, and both Diane Beaver and Mike Dunlavey, who have largely been scapegoated by the administration, described to me the visit that Mr. Gonzales made, accompanied by Mr. Addington, who’s Vice President Cheney’s lawyer, and Jim Haynes, who is Rumsfeld’s lawyer.

* * *
Vanity Fair doesn't publish rubbish.

[ThomWV]

23. I hope you're right and its not that I disbelieve them but if its not on paper it didn't happen.

[EFerrari]

24. I agree with you on that. And, I do trust Vanity Fair

because they're about the only ones publishing real investigative reporting any more. And Amy Goodman is pretty careful, as well.

[leftchick]

25. Vanity Fair Article link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3113587&mesg_id=3113587

[KoKo]

30. It's a good read...and Democracy now has a Transcipt at the link in OP that gives

the "rest of the story" past the VF article, too.

[leftchick]

26. Remeber too, all interrogations are video taped

I am sure the bloodthirsty cheney enjoys curling up and watching them before bed.

[KoKo]

31. I'm convinced there are "other copies" of those GITMO Interrogations...that Bushies couldn't burn

or destroy floating out there. But, those who hold them are "waiting for the big War Crimes Immunity Event" to release them. It may take a decade...but those tapes and the story will eventually all come out. I would wish it sooner than later...but given what's been done and the reptutions of those like Blair/Bush and others in High Ranking Countries...it will take longer than Nuremburg Trials after WWII for this stuff to come to light. Many of us will be dead and gone..BUT IT WILL COME!!! IT WILL!

[Blackhatjack]

27. Atrocities have the power to destroy Governments .....

When atrocities become known within a society, the initial damage is revulsion among the people that their public officials and respresentatives played a role in such a horrendous action.

However, the power of atrocities to bring down Governments lies in the attempts of Public Officials and Courts to cover them up and avoid prosecuting those responsible.

IF those responsible for the commission of atrocities are not held accountable, the Government loses its moral authority to govern.

[KoKo]

29. "...the Government loses it's moral authority to govern." This one

for sure should have lost that after a "Stolen Election" with "9/11" on it's heels.

I hope the Hounds of HELL will pursue these people to the ends of the earth long after I'm gone...to BRING THEM TO JUSTICE! ALL OF THEM! The BUSH FAMILY CRIME EMPIRE and the NEO-CONS who BROUGHT THEM TO POWER! (apologize for my angst...but it's REAL and ANGRY...)

[bobthedrummer]

28. k

[KoKo]

32. ...

[EFerrari]

33. Kick

[chimper]

36. SOCIOPATHS LIKE TORTURE....

.