A Boy the Bullies Love to Beat Up, Repeatedly

[Thickasabrick]

Source: New York Times

All lank and bone, the boy stands at the corner with his younger sister, waiting for the yellow bus that takes them to their respective schools. He is Billy Wolfe, high school sophomore, struggling.

Moments earlier he left the sanctuary that is his home, passing those framed photographs of himself as a carefree child, back when he was 5. And now he is at the bus stop, wearing a baseball cap, vulnerable at 15.

A car the color of a school bus pulls up with a boy who tells his brother beside him that he’s going to beat up Billy Wolfe. While one records the assault with a cellphone camera, the other walks up to the oblivious Billy and punches him hard enough to leave a fist-size welt on his forehead.

The video shows Billy staggering, then dropping his book bag to fight back, lanky arms flailing. But the screams of his sister stop things cold.

The aggressor heads to school, to show friends the video of his Billy moment, while Billy heads home, again. It’s not yet 8 in the morning.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/us/24land.html?hp

---

What the crap is wrong with people? There is seriously something wrong with the way parents are raising their kids.

[msongs]

1. it comes from the pulpits of america nt

[BigDaddy44]

48. Churches are teaching bullies to beat up kids?

Gee, knee jerk much? Yes, Christians MUST be at the root of this problem.

[goddess40]

51. I don't see any mention of zeroing in on Christians

it comes, partly, from those churches that preach that they are the chosen people - which sends a strong message that others are lessor people.

The main problem is more cultural. Too many lazy, intellectually and physically, adults that like to use the lame excuse that "kids will be kids" and nothing can be done about it.

[BigDaddy44]

54. "The pulpits of America"?

What "pulpits" do you think the poster was referring to? I highly doubt he was talking about Muslim or Buddhist pulpits.

I'd make a sizeable wager that the two bit punks in this story haven't been taught that "they are the chosen people". They're just bored little hooligans who see no consequences for their actions. I think its just amazing that all of a sudden we assume that church is somehow at the root of the problem.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. Well if nothing else

Such bullies are the spawn of Sanctified, Divinley protected unions between One Man and One Woman, proving once and for all that hetrosexual couplings are nothing short of a Sacrament, and the product of such blessed rites show us all the righteousness of the chosen hetrosexual people.
Amen.

[The Straight Story]

81. Yeah, I get tired of people saying they are the chosen one, ala jews

christians believe anyone can join the group, they were not chosen - they chose.

[Winterblues]

86. "A homosexual no one likes"

“There is no reason anyone should like billy he’s a little bitch. And a homosexual that NO ONE LIKES.”
According to the article this was written about Billy on Facebook

[laylah]

50. Although not a victim of physical violence,

one of my daughters was horrendously bullied when she entered her Freshman year of high school. It continued, after peer mediation x3, talking to teachers, talking to the principal,etc. I wasn't "allowed" (by my kiddo) to intervene but once I saw the administration was going to continue to turn a blind eye, I called them. It only took me saying I felt they wanted to hear from me before they heard from my attorney. The bullying stopped after that.

I am so sorry for this boy. It appears many of the adults in his life are failing him miserably.

[CTyankee]

128. Good for you! You did what you should do and I applaud you!

The school should be held responsible for this horrible situation. If they won't stop it, you have every right to sue them for damages that your child suffers as a result of their negligence.

I hope all is well for your and your child...

[Taverner]

109. Yes indeed. I am with you brother

Churches teach nothing more than might is right.

You might say your church doesn't do that, but your church isn't the megachurch that these fucks go to.

[kevinbgoode]

153. Yes...we should examine the minister's sermons

where those bullies attend church. Then someone needs to toss the perpetrators into the slammer, permanently.

[spoony]

154. Lol, 1st reply

and already blaming religion. So dull and predictable, inserting irrational prejudices against religious people into every thread. Is there anything some of you CAN'T blame on religion?

[CitizenRob]

165. "A homosexual no one likes"

I read this article in the NYTimes during my lunch. I was surprised to see this thread here.

Religion teaches hatred of gays. This kid isn't even gay and he is a target of that hatred daily.

[patrice]

2. Many many Parents and Churches are failures. nt

[PassingFair]

3. This is nothing new,..

My brother got it all the time when we were kids.

I find schools are actually MUCH better at dealing
with this these days. When my oldest daughter was
getting picked on, her elementary school took a
no tolerance stance and punished the bullies.

[pnwmom]

6. The point is

we should be beyond this by now.

I'm glad for you about your daughter's school, but too many other schools, like this one, have made very little progress.

[PassingFair]

19. We'll never "get beyond" human nature.

We have to be vigilant...and correct, teach and
punish where necessary.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ldf]

123. human nature?

this crap has to be taught.

hate is taught. it does NOT come naturally.

[sybylla]

149. It's not about hate, it's about fear and power

And that doesn't have to be taught. It is human nature to strike out against that which makes us afraid and against those from whom we can garner a sense of power. You actually have to teach children that they need to squelch their first instinct - physical harm.

As a child, a very young child, I had a cousin who would cry at the drop of a hat - even over something so simple as not smiling at her when you met. She was hypersensitive. I can tell you that it didn't take long and my brother, other cousins and I were making her cry. It was like we were suddenly power hungry with it. Perhaps there was a root cause. Many times, we would be playing and for no flipping reason that I could discern, she would start crying. I would get blamed for causing it even though I didn't do anything. Perhaps it was a way to turn a powerless situation into something not so powerless. A way to pay her back for getting me in trouble.

Yes, my parents tried to correct it. And we never did it with anyone else. But there were several occasions when we were together for family events and though we would promise ourselves and our parents we wouldn't treat her that way again, by the end of the day, we failed.

It's called immaturity for a reason. Kids have trouble handling certain emotions. Without a parent there to recognize the trouble early on and guide them through it, they may never learn to deal with it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not justifying what these boys did. I'm saying that bullies are who they are because they feel powerless and fearful in their own world - or at least did at one point and haven't learned to get past that behavior that worked so well for them. And I fear that if they haven't learned to deal with what makes them bullies by the time they are 5 or 6, they never will.

[noamnety]

4. Maybe the parents need to file assault charges against the other kids

If the school can't or won't address the problem, or refuses to report it to police, the family still has the option to go that route.

I hate having to recommend that, but it's what I would do, as a parent.

[harmonicon]

7. Mabe?

Definitely. There's a big difference between 9 year olds getting in a fight on a playground and assault from someone old enough, and supposedly mature enough, to drive a car. If this kid had knocked-off a convenience store and roughed-up the clerk, would the school or parents been asked to deal with it? No fucking way. These kids should get in seriously deep fucking adult-sized trouble.

[orleans]

40. i wouldn't hesitate to involve the cops, file complaints, press charges, do whatever

was necessary to let these brats know i wasn't fucking around.

shame on these schools for not taking a stand on this and stopping it before it got so out of hand. i guess that lesson on the school bus, where billy was suspended for fighting, really taught the little fuckers a lesson--that they can get away with murder--even with a surveillance camera turned on.

i hate to think how this is affecting billy wolfe deep down inside.

[goddess40]

55. Keep records, write everything down

if your child is up to it have them keep a journal and hopefully you can take them to see a therapist. If a child is subject to constant bullying they are probably suffering from depression and need an outlet where they feel safe.

[momster]

124. Remind the Bullied that It Isn't Them

There's nothing wrong with *them*. My daughter was bullied in the 3rd grade by a girl who was bigger and stronger and from a troubled background. The school spent all it's time and attention on the bully...'oh but she's having to cope with so much', 'her parents are divorcing', 'it's not her fault'. After another year of listening to them whine about poor little ***** while ignoring my child's dread of her, I pulled my d out. I will always feel guilty that I didn't do it sooner though my d has gone on to be a really wonderful kid. But she worried all the time that it was something *she* did to attract this negative attention.

[NashVegas]

58. Maybe?

I've got a feeling the parents have never attempted to directly confront the situation with the offenders' or their parents.

[proud2BlibKansan]

103. We have recommended that at school more than a few times

and it works. Something about having to drag their little bully down to family court and face a judge is a rather sobering experience.

[CitizenRob]

166. In Junior high I was relentlessly bullied by a group of kids, and teachers witnessed it...

of course they did nothing to stop it.

[1monster]

130. My kid was being physically abused by bullies in middle school. When the school failed to

stop the problem, I told the kids myself, that if anyone laid a hand on my son again, I was pressing criminal charges.

The verbal tormenting went on, but the physical abused stopped.

[murielm99]

158. One of my son's friends had a mom who did that.

She was completely justified in doing it. The high school principal tried to talk her out of it, but she stood her ground.

[patrice]

5. I have a friend who is going through this with her son.

It's more common than you think.

[shanti]

64. ESPECIALLY in middle school

that's where it really takes off. my oldest was sucker punched in the face by a bully on the way home from school in the 7th grade :mad:

[LWolf]

125. We have very little physical bullying in our middle school.

The social bullying, though, is extreme. More than extreme.

We've spent as much time dealing with social bullying this year than we have actually teaching anything academic.

[shanti]

161. well

my youngest son's a senior now, but i remember when he was in middle school - there were DAILY fights. in fact, he was challenged by an 8th grader during the first week of middle school (he was a 6th grader). it's not just boys either. the girls fight just as often as the boys!

[LWolf]

163. I went to a middle school like that,

back in the early 70s. There were numerous fights every day. It was worth your health to attempt to go to the bathroom, because the girl's bathroom was patrolled by a large, atheletic girl with a very large bra size, who would put one hand around an unsuspecting student's neck, lift her up and hold her against the wall, and casually ask why she thought she could enter the bathroom without HER express permission. She left me alone; I was never sure why, but I thought it might have something to do with the fact that my bra size was almost as large as hers, I never showed fear, and I never challenged her.

There were also outright brawls on the lawns before, during, and after school on a daily basis. I mostly avoided those, although I did have one girl ride my bus one day to my bus stop, get off with a crew of her followers, and attempt to beat the living daylights out of me for "going out" with her boyfriend over the summer, before he was her boyfriend. I held my own; didn't hit her back, but didn't allow her to throw me to the ground, and blocked the worst of her efforts until I reached a neighbor's house and escaped inside.

Then there was the time that the 9th grade boys gleefully surrounded me, six of them, tore my pants off and dumped me in a garbage bin for having the temerity to step on "their" lawn.

There was literally no adult supervision anywhere on campus outside of the classrooms or the office building.

We know that developmentally, middle school is the most challenging time, academically, emotionally, and socially, for a young person. And, of course, for those of us who spend our days with them. I've always worked in K-8 schools, and I like it that way. A smaller number of students, with other ages and more adults around them, is a better setting than a traditional middle school or jr high, with a high student population all of them middle schoolers, and a departmentalized structure that keeps them from spending much time with any one teacher/adult figure.

In a smaller setting, they see the same adults every year, and get mentoring as well as academic instruction.

[kittycat1164]

175. Girls are VICIOUS!

The emotional roller coaster of middle school is the worst....I only have girls so that's all I know. Oh the tears! Thank God one's in high school and the other has matured enough now to go her own way and not care as much even though she's still in 8th grade. That poor poor boy. Why do kids have to be sooooo mean???

[Extend a Hand]

8. That's awful

I wonder why the parents keep him in that school system?

[CC]

12. Maybe because it is local, a good school

and maybe they both work and can't transport him across town. Also with the internet do you really think moving him to another school in the area would help? Why should he and his parents be punished for what the bullies do? Why shouldn't they be moved or expelled?
Then I wonder if he leaves who is their next victim?

They are trying to pass a law here that would give the victim the choice, he/she changes schools or the school forces the parents of the bullies to change the bully's school and find them a way to and from. I hope it passes. At least that way it is more likely the bullies parents pay the price for their kids behavior instead of the victim and their parents.

[LisaL]

80. A good school where the kid is constantly getting beaten?

[gristy]

9. This is shocking to me

In high school several decades ago, I can recall zero incidents of any student beating up another. It just didn't happen. My reaction to what's going on with Billy Wolfe is why aren't these punks in jail? Why aren't their parents paying hefty fines? Where is the federal government in this? Since Wolfe is white, does that mean his only recourse is the damn local school officials and local police?

[selador]

11. the federal govt.?

what possible authority does (or should) the feds have in a garden variety assault on a city street?

[gristy]

23. I am wondering if there is any way a federal response is possible

They were instrumental in providing for the safety the University of Mississippi's first black student in 1962. I'll be the first to admit the situation is different here in some respects, though the article indicates there are also similarities: "After a complaint was filed with the Office of Civil Rights, the district adopted procedures to promote tolerance and respect — none of which seems to have been of much comfort to Billy Wolfe."

Is there no recourse for this student? Are these assaults not criminal assaults?

Also, not clear you read the same article I did. In the article I read, assaults occurred in locations such as on the school bus (as recorded by the on-board video camera) and in the student's shop class. Also in the article I read, there was no characterization of these assaults as "garden variety". What is a "garden variety" assault anyways? Is that what you would call it if I'm at work or on public transportation and someone steps up to me and lands a right hook to my jaw?

[selador]

28. oh for pete's sake

these assaults ARE criminal assaults.

we live in a democratic republic. which means that most crimes are (and should be) local crimes only

in regards to your last question, by garden variety, i mean just that. it doesn't mean it's justified. it means there are no circ's that i can see that would render this a FEDERAL CRIME

getting the feds involved in local law enforcement is almost always the wrong decision. certainly it is in cases of simple assault

[CTyankee]

131. Hopefully, there is not a case outside of the local community and its governing bodies.

This SHOULD be settled at the local level, with the school district taking responsibility for its charges while those charges are in their jurisdiction. It is an interesting question, however, when they DON'T. I am not for excessive litigation in this country, but if this were my kid I would be looking for every answer I could. After all, my child is my responsibility ultimately and when I give him/her over to a government entity (school) where I am FORCED to do so, then there has to be some reciprocity of responsiblitity.

That makes sense to me.

[FloridaJudy]

44. Unfortunately I can remember something like this

From High School, and that was over 40 years ago. There was a girl who came from a poor, Fundamentalist family that had about 14 kids. Wendy (not her real name) had really bad acne, and some sort of neurological or mental disorder. She always came to school in unkempt ragged condition, and was prone to talking to herself under her breath and picking at her clothing. She was like some wounded animal tossed into a lion's cage. While I never witnessed her being pummeled, I frequently saw her being shoved, mocked, tripped and spat on by other students. The school nurse - a really nice lady - tried to take Wendy under her wing, mending her clothes, giving her healthy snacks and trying to find medical care for her dermatologic and mental problems. The parents would have none of it, declaring that Wendy's condition was "The Lord's Will", and that the nurse was a lesbian. In retrospect I realize that she probably was, but that had nothing whatsoever to do with her efforts to help Wendy.

The curious thing was that absolutely none of "my" crowd - the AP/College Prep "grinds" and nerds - would have been caught dead harassing Wendy. None of us were saints, but it would have been as unthinkable as beating up a kitten in public. Those of who had enough guts and status in the warped world of school cliques would sometimes intervene, yelling at the bullies to "go pick on someone your own size", or threatening to inform the Principal/Dean (who obviously didn't give a damn, since it never did any good).

Thinking about this now, I realize that the reason none of my friends were mean to Wendy was because we had better things to do. This was a working class high school in an industrial area, but it had a stellar AP program. We were going on to decent colleges, and most of us had gotten scholarships. The kids who made Wendy's life a hell faced pretty bleak futures themselves, working at dull, poorly paid jobs. It is those without hope who are more likely to take their frustrations out on others.

Whenever I read about something like this, I remember Wendy. I frequently wonder what happened to her: I expect it was pretty bad. And I remember the words of a great Rabbi whom I respect though I don't count myself as His follower "As you do unto the least of my brethren you do unto me". It's the season to remind people of that.

[Brigid]

142. Interesting . . .

that you and "your" crowd had better things to do . . . like taking AP courses. Another poster said something quite similar about transferring to a school that focused on AP classes, theater, arts, etc. That school also had little trouble with bullying.

[CC]

10. Watching a now 15 year old go through

the same thing, including one boy telling his mom he was going to kill him when she wouldn't let him go out and get his "beating". Cops called and they said they could not do anything, it was just talk. The school's solution, suspend both. Zero tolerance and all that BS. Soon as he is 16 they are sending him to night school even though it will cost money they do not have. The schools make them victims as much as the bullies.

This one is tall and lanky too, but looking at his dad and uncle's the bullies best hope he stays laid back and nice or because one day he will be tall and all muscles. Then pay backs will be a bitch.

[Adsos Letter]

13. Just talk?!

I thought talk like that constituted assault.

[CC]

16. So did she

and the rest of us. She did get them to file a report and has filed one for every incident. Next year he will be in night school. I told them about it, the school didn't bother. Kid is smart enough he will probably graduate in Jan. then.

[Adsos Letter]

18. That makes me very angry...

kids should be safe in the school system.

[CC]

24. Should of seen some of

us. I've known this boy since the day he was born. Angry and frustrating to say the least. We have all been reinforcing his good points for him and now that he has a way out he is handling things better. Actually he has handled it pretty good all along. It started in 6th grade but he is still a happy, interested in the world well adjust person and though bewildered on why him decided it was something lacking in them. He does wonder if it is because he is so tall and thin but then he looks at dad and his uncles (all six) and realizes the thin will go away into muscles soon. When I look at the men in that family I think to myself they better pray to who ever that he never decided to look them up later.

The second hard part was keeping the big muscled men in the family from beating some bullies to within an inch of their lives. There are times it has been touch and go.

[Adsos Letter]

38. I hear ya'...

"The second hard part was keeping the big muscled men in the family from beating some bullies to within an inch of their lives. There are times it has been touch and go."

As the father of two daughters I am well familiar with the urge to protect...especially against injustice, and ESPECIALLY against physical abuse.

Give your nephew my best wishes.

[riverdeep]

106. Yes, and at that point the local police will get involved.

If he goes out and gets revenge as a near adult, that's when they'll decide to intervene.

[CitizenRob]

168. Actually pay back well be jail time.

You need to teach your son that the proper course of action when he is physically assaulted by another person is to call the police, not to seek physical revenge days/weeks/years later. If you are teaching him to seek revenge rather than putting this through the proper legal channels you are going to find your son going through those same legal channels his bullies should have been going through.

[Alexander]

14. Chances are the bully is beaten at home. Bullies don't come from nowhere.

Usually there is violence, neglect and/or abject poverty in the homes of bullying children.

That doesn't excuse their behavior, but perhaps counselors should look into the root causes of bullying more and take preventative measures to stop it.

[MidwestTransplant]

22. Many of the recent school shooters or would be shooters were found to have been bullied.

[Alexander]

32. Yep. That doesn't excuse their shootings, though.

I'm sure you'd find that most bullies are beaten at home, too.

That doesn't excuse their bullying, though.

This needs to be prevented before it ever happens. More teacher-parent interaction may be necessary but if it prevents bullying, harassment and shootings, I say it's worth it.

[enlightenment]

37. Perhaps, but there are many types of bullying.

and many types of bullies. Some come from the very "best" of environments; their "abuse" at home consists of nothing more than over indulgent parents who refuse to believe that their little darling is a monster.

Some of the worst bullying isn't physical, it's emotional. Taunting, teasing, "practical jokes" - destruction of property - things that many people think is a "normal" part of growing up. It's not.

Zero tolerance has to extend beyond the school yard. Our culture and society needs to come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as an acceptable level of bullying. As long as there are adults who dismiss emotional bullying (or physical bullying) as a "normal" rite of passage, we are as a society giving tacit approval to the bullies.

[Alexander]

43. True. And thus it is harder to define bullying in clear terms.

"Some come from the very "best" of environments; their "abuse" at home consists of nothing more than over indulgent parents who refuse to believe that their little darling is a monster."

Yes. I've read studies that show too much self-esteem as well as too little self-esteem leads to interpersonal hostility and is more likely to lead to bullying. It seems as far as parenting is concerned, a balance is in order.

"Some of the worst bullying isn't physical, it's emotional. Taunting, teasing, "practical jokes" - destruction of property - things that many people think is a "normal" part of growing up. It's not."

I agree. When we deal with emotional bullying, however, that becomes harder to define. A practical joke among true friends, where everyone can have a laugh and no one is harmed (and no property destroyed), is not bullying. But teasing, taunting and destruction of property is clearly over the line. The problem is a lot of teachers don't know students well enough to determine which is which, partially due to variables such as class size and student self-confidence.

"Zero tolerance has to extend beyond the school yard. Our culture and society needs to come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as an acceptable level of bullying. As long as there are adults who dismiss emotional bullying (or physical bullying) as a "normal" rite of passage, we are as a society giving tacit approval to the bullies."

True, and that's going to involve a lot more parent-teacher communication than we currently have now, smaller class sizes so teachers can get to know their students better, and encouragement from parents and faculty to notify teachers of bullying of any sort.

[CitizenRob]

170. Great, when you find a way to punish their inexcusable shooting spree let us know.

Or we can fix the problem before it happens, since most of them seem to kill themselves in the act.

[devilgrrl]

77. Most of the bullies at my high school came from "good homes"

and were well liked by the teachers and principal. I wouldn't doubt for a second that the bullies at this kid's school are same kind of individuals.

[treestar]

82. To some degree maybe, but a lot of times it is just being bigger

than the other kids. This society does teach a lot that might makes right, just look at the warmongers' delight that the most powerful military in the world was able to defeat that terrorist nation of Iraq. Kids who are bigger and stronger than other kids their age will at first think they can use that to get their way. Some parents get that notion of civilization through, others don't. Others even encourage it, not having gotten over it themselves.

[AlphaCentauri]

15. hope in court those bullies learn a good lesson n/t

[Adsos Letter]

17. Seems to me...

that if the thugs recorded it that ought to produce enough evidence to cause some serious legal repercussion.

Looking at the schools response to all of this I can't help but wonder how influential these bullies parents are on the local school board. That particular form of local democracy can certainly be a source of injustice at times...

[superconnected]

20. Billys parents belong in jail for endangerment.

They aren't stopping the bullies, they are throwing their kid out there at his lifes peril daily because they are obstinate that he go to that school district.

They should be in jail for how endangered this kid is. But alas, unless it was them personally I
doubt they are going to budge.

The other boys need charges pressed against them and law suits. And they need restraining orders. Ths school and officials need law suits against them too.

The parents need to remove the kid from the school immediately before he suffers more physical abuse, and FUCK YES THE PARENTS of the beat up kid should be arrested too for letting this continue when they know from history that it happens every day and their idea of fighting the system is proven not to work, yet they send him anyway.

[NashVegas]

57. No Kidding! I Can't Believe These Selfish Assholes!

Some people in DU have written about "learned helplessness." This is it, this is what it looks like.

These parents are too selfish to put their child's safety and sense of security, belief that the people who love him will back him up, ahead of their own fear of confrontation.

At the very least they should have had him in a self-defense class on day two. Instead, they've allowed someone to beat the crap out of their kid for four years!

[LisaL]

78. That kid is getting some serious damage from being beaten.

As described in the article.
Personally I don't think I could have allowed for my kid to go back to the same school.
Of course most private schools are so expensive, impossible to afford for many people.

[riverdeep]

107. It seems from the article, they're following the rules.

I'm sure the rules would say, don't fight unless you're being picked on. Go through the proper channels to get things resolved and live with the democratic decision. Which goes to show me, the system is rigged. What does it teach the kids about respect for the law if both kids are suspended regardless of the instigator? It teaches, 'we don't really care about justice, only bureaucracy'.

Hell yeah, a lawsuit should be filed, against the parents of the bullies. How much have the parents of the picked on kid have had to shell out on medical bills? That's a start.

[comradebillyboy]

21. I used to get bullied until I hit one the biggest guys that

was bullying me in the face as hard as I could. I felt like I lost the fight that ensued, but he was the one who went home crying, telling daddy I beat him up. No one ever bothered me again. Sometimes violence is the correct response. If Billy isolated one of his tormentors with baseball bat one day (no witnesses) and and made the choice to defend himself, I doubt if he would get any more beatings. Bullies are usually cowards and when they get a dose of their own medicine they slink away. The authorities won't protect him so he must protect himself and make a serious example of at least one of the bullies.

[TML]

25. Agreed

I used to be bullied when I was younger until I fought back. I have to admit I got a lot of respect when I broke some kid's orbital bone with a punch. Because he started the fight, nothing happened to me and I never had a problem with anyone else after that.

Billy needs to fight back, and flailing his arms isn't going to do it. Someone please show him how to throw a punch, since no one else will protect him but himself.

[CRF450]

41. I was in that same position too.

The last bully that messed with me, I kicked the shit out of him in front of probably 100 students. Then I got suspended for a week, that didn't bother me cause I was happy he got his.

If I ever raise a son, I'm gonna teach him how fight if he's ever bullied. The article mentioned Billy being a real skinny kid. I suggest somebody get him to do some weight lifting and fighting/defense training. He doesn't need to be a big scary looking dude, but alteast get some meat on the bones. Strength and muscle is one thing, but if ya know how to hit, you can take almost anyone down.

[CRF450]

42. self delete: sorry, double post, problem with the browser.

[reformedrethug]

73. I was wondering

if anybody was going to say this. I was bullied in Jr High for a while, then I got fed up with it. I started to go to the boys club and started to work out, lift weights, learn some martial arts, IOW I learned how to stand up for myself. The first week of school it started back up, I let it go for a few days then I finally said enough was enough. 1 arm bar and 1 leg sweep and the kid ran home and I never had any more problems. Sometimes you HAVE to stand up for yourself and not depend on anybody else to do it for you. Nobody got hurt physically, just some bruised pride and life went on.

There is a huge difference in knowing how to defend yourself and having the self discipline to use it only when necessary. My dad always told me if I got in a fight at school to stand up for myself, but NEVER start one, because if I did, I would have one when I got home. This all came to a head my freshman year in HS. I met a girl but she was dating somebody from over the summer. After a few weeks she broke up with him and we became an "item". A few days later he came up to me and said "Thats ok, you can have her since she is not a whole girl anyways" next thing I knew he was against the lockers and I was being pulled off. She had cervical cancer and I stood up for her. Of course I was suspended for 3 days but when I told my dad what had happened he took me out to dinner. His reasoning was that I stood up for somebody who could not stand up for herself and I did good.

fighting is not always the answer, but sometimes it is the only answer.

[BigDaddy44]

49. Some on this thread would make YOU to be the bad guy.

They would have you expelled, and sent to "special counselling" in a "special environment". You fought back and ended it. Bravo!

[kineneb]

95. I did the same thing

but I was the tallest (and geekiest) girl in my 6th grade class (1969). I had been tormented for years by some of my classmates. One day, one of the boys threw a baseball glove at my back and I turned around and slugged him. I caught his arm in the swing and pushed his big wristwatch into his eye area. The school admin. sent him home, and admonished me to please not do it again.

I never had a problem with those bullies again. Ever. They would avoid me when they saw me in the high school hallways.

Looking back, I think perhaps being more lenient of a bit of violence when children are younger allowes them to sort things out before they can actually hurt someone. Rather like puppies and other animals. Suppress that instinct until they are teens and we get Columbine, etc.

[Cronopio]

97. You sure you shoudn't have just sold the chocolates?

:sarcasm:

Sometimes violence is the most skillful response, but even when it's called for it ends up justifying the threat-based mindset that creates it. It just goes to prove that a price tag is attached to the right moves.

"Bullies are usually cowards and when they get a dose of their own medicine they slink away."

Not the well-connected ones. But fighting back and losing is still better than not being allowed to say "no" because of your complicity.

[riverdeep]

108. Or, he would come back the next day, with more people, and stab him off school grounds.

Isn't childhood lovely?

[MadHound]

160. Hear, hear

I was bullied in jr. high, and my parents response, after getting a non-response from the school, was to enroll me in martial arts. The first time I broke a bully's elbow was the last time I got attacked, and I didn't even get punished for it, since the kid had pulled a switchblade on me.

There are absolutely times when you have to respond to force with force, and equipping your child to do so in the most effective way possible is the only responsible thing to do. It will not only save your child's ass, but it will also build their self confidence.

[southerncrone]

26. The problem is parents AREN'T raising their kids. The kids are raising themselves.

At least a large number of them are. The situation with our youth is very, very sad.

[superconnected]

29. yes, but there are a whole lot of adults there failing the kids on this one.

[ourbluenation]

113. But what's the root of THAT problem? Are they having to work multiple jobs to get by?

are they overwhelmed single parents?

[southerncrone]

119. Some are overwhelmed single parents. But there are many who

don't want to "be bothered" with doing the hard work it takes to properly parent children. Many are more concerned with "chasing tail" or going out with friends, instead of being REAL parents. Drugs & alcohol are added negatives in this mix.

Many of the "socially privileged" are just as abandoned as those raised by a single parent. They are just placated with "toys" (hot cars, IPod, their own wing in the home that's basically an isolated apt., computer system w/all the bells & whistles, loads of cash,etc.) These are the kids who have "parties" at their houses while the parents are out of town on "business trips" together. It is really amazing (& frightening) how many minors are left alone for days on end without supervision while parents travel. But, we never "hear" about them, do we?

[ourbluenation]

121. your post actually made me lol, remembering the parties I had when my parents weren't home

back in the early 80's. Good times.

At any rate, the mom in this case in the op seems to be very hands on.

[southerncrone]

139. Yea, but the stuff kids have access to today is much more harmful than in the '80's.

The internet in itself opens the door to all sorts of inappropriate stuff kids have access to. Cell phones, too. The drugs are more plentiful & more dangerous. Porn is prolific with high school-aged kids today (probably middle & jr. highs, too). I'm talking RANK porn.....snuff, etc. But the biggy is--parents don't question their kids on where they are or what they are doing.

Seems the Wolf parents in this story are involved. However, if you can't get this type of problem resolved for your child, then you need to remove him from this dangerous environment.

The schools are limited in what they can do, legally. When the kids are OFF school grounds, the school has no authority to intervene. Like at the bus stop.

My guess is that since this is Arkansas, there is a certain "accepted" thought pattern that bullying is "what boys do". It is a common attitude in The South. Sorta survival-of-the-fittest gone overboard. Get tough, or "deal with it". Modern day Lord of the Flies.

Even though Billy's parents probably don't want to promote violence. As others here have related, the best thing might be for Billy to pick the biggest, baddest bully & "go crazy" on him. That usually ends any further abuse. It's sad, but it seem human nature to pick on the weakest & as soon a Billy proves he is no longer the weakest, they will find someone else. Unfortunately.

Our school system is working hard on trying to identify & stop bullying b/4 it gets out of hand. It all starts in the lower grades, escalates in the middle grades, & some continues into high school. There is an effort to identify & use behavior modification with the very young bullies. We'll see how it works. Any improvement is welcome.

[superconnected]

27. This is going to result in the kid dying and his parents acting like it's

not their fault.

Watch. Those two will send him till his head gets bashed in, while complaining to the school but still thowing their kid out there for the abuse. Then it will be boo hoo, and they'll hold up paper work and insist there was nothing we could do to stop it.

I hope he sues his parents some day, if he lives, which is friggen unlikely.

[Yavin4]

30. Schools Need To Adopt A Zero Tolerance On All Forms of Violence

Students caught assaulting another student should be expelled immediately and sent to a special school with intense counseling.

NO CHILD should ever have to attend school and be in fear of their personal safety. No adult goes to work in fear of getting beaten up by their co-workers.

[BigDaddy44]

47. So let me guess......

Billy gets tormented and no one sees it. Billy finally gets fed up, fights back, gets expelled, and then gets to go to a special school for "intense counseling" (whatever that means). What's wrong with this picture?

Yes, school should be safe, but if Billy fights back, and I'm a teacher, I'm looking the other way.

[1monster]

127. You've got that right. See reply 126

nt

[1monster]

129. Zero tolerance is a political tool that doesn't work. It doesn't ever take into

consideration the dynamics of each situation.

Zero tolerance is nothing more than a feel good solution to a problem that has deep roots and needs serious attention.

Zero tolernace is just a way for the schoo district to wash its hand of the problem.

Zero tolerance makes me want to :puke:

[drmeow]

31. "What the crap is wrong with people? "

"There is seriously something wrong with the way parents are raising their kids."

We live in a culture where money and power trump everything else. A culture where rock/movie/sports stars commit assault all the time and get off with a slap on the wrist - and continue to make huge amounts of money in the public eye. Why? Because they make someone else even more money. A country where some major bullies are in the highest positions of power in the country if not the world. A country that thinks nothing of acting like a bully to every other country usually with incredibly lethal results.

And you ask what is wrong with people? Its not just the parents. It is our whole society. The whole entire ideology of the NeoCons and the hardcore right wing conservatives it that the bullies rule ... and that is the message that has been hammering into out heads for 30 years. The cops won't do anything about it because probably 1/2 the cops are bullies themselves. Limbaugh, Hannity, Tucker, O'Reilly, Gibson, Malkin, Coulter, etc ... they are ALL bullies. And no one has challenged them for years. Bush laughs about his bullying.

[Thickasabrick]

46. I agree - the same society is producing people who wind up

going into malls shooting as many strangers as they can before they off themselves, (and producing the Hannitys, Coulters, etc., you mentioned from above). It is a bigger problem than one school in one local community.

[bluestateguy]

33. Reminds me of a story from middle school

20 years ago there was tall lanky kid in my middle school, much like the kid described in this article. Let's call him Dan. Dan was bullied constantly, but never did anything about it.

Until one day in wood shop class when another round of bullying pushed Dan over the edge. He grabbed a metal stool and smashed it over the head of the kid who had been taunting him. The bully had to be taken to the hospital by ambulance.

As for Dan, he wasn't in school the next day. In fact, I never saw him again or heard what happened to him.

[El Pinko]

71. I think most kids get a taste of bullying at one point or another...

I got it some - I wasn't tough or good at sports, I didn't know the latest pop culture or curse words, (in the 80s), I didn't stand up for myself and was bewildered as to why boys would start crap with me. For a while I let it make me more introverted and morose and that seemed to only make it worse.

Then one day in 8th grade some kid was taunting me and I got up and threw him across the classroom before class, knocking over like 8 desks in the process. Everyone was staring and I was really embarrassed and so was he. We all sat down as though nothing happened and nobody mentioned it after that, and the bullying pretty much stopped after that.

There are a lot of ways to deal with bullying - working out and/or standing up for yourself. Having a sense of humor, perhaps self-deprecating and using that to defuse situations. Different things seem to work better with different people and situations, but running to your mom to have her complain to a friend's mom about a dildo taunt is not one that I would recommend, nor is being introverted and sullen all the time - that seems to draw even more bullying.

Not that this or any kid deserves this, but the reality is that there is a limit to what parents and schools can do to protect kids from this. It's a trial by fire and I hope this kid comes through it all right - getting a photo spread about himself in the NYT may make it worse. Or maybe it will reach a few other kids and start something positive in the school and in Billy. It's funny, you just never know.

[Echo In Light]

72. Manifestations of deeply seated 20th century "traditions." Chance favors the prepared mind

[MADem]

34. It's not "bullying." It is assault consummated by a battery, and it should be treated that way.

If communities would start hauling these "bullies" before judges and trying and convicting them, that shit would stop.

If parents of "bullied" children would sue the parents of bullyers for damages, this shit would stop.

It isn't a "rite of passage." It's assault consummated by a battery. And it is a CRIME.

[fujiyama]

45. You're right

Dismissing it merely as "bullying" is treating it as some normal phase of life, while things should not necessarily be that way.

This kind of constant harassment, taunting, violence, and intimidation can be incredibly destructive psychologically and physically for the victim, and distracting and unhealthy to the rest of the student body.

It's time to throw these bullies into juvie. These kids obviously have some other issues that need to be worked out but they can't be with the rest of the general student body. Time to stop coddling, blaming both the perpetrator and the victim, and go after the ones causing the problems. I've often seen schools blame both the perpetrator and the victim and dismiss these incidents as fights rather than actually do anything about real bullying. It's disgusting.

[Midlodemocrat]

79. Excellent post.

:applause:

[knitter4democracy]

91. Some do. I had a student served with a supoena in class once.

He'd beaten a kid pretty badly, and the parents pressed charges. He knew he'd done the wrong thing and was mad at himself after getting back from the office.

I would definitely press charges. That kind of behavior is illegal for a reason.

[NM Independent]

35. I had the exact same problem...

...I'm only 5'3" and was of course the shortest in the class growing up.

I had to deal with it all the way through elementary, middle and high school. Every time I changed schools (which was a lot) I would let all the bullies come out of the woodwork so I would know all the names that needed to be added to my shit list.

Then the fun began. I would pick the worst of the bunch, and in a very public place egg them on from a snide comment they would throw to start it. Drawin 'em in was sooo easy. The rules in my schools were if you didn't throw the first punch, then you were just defending yourself. So I would wait for it, and then give them a beating they and nobody else would ever forget. It was incredibly easy to decimate prior bullies and elevate my status at the same time. After that, it was open season on the rest of the bullies. I just waited for someone on the list to even look at me wrong, and they would regret it.

I'm a pacifist now, though :)

[Swagman]

39. sue sue sue sue and sue again-file assault charges-drag them into court

show them they aren't as tough as they think they are when they have to face the big world on their own

[CTyankee]

132. Absolutely! If parents' houses are at stake of being lost because they lose a

court case, they'll get their kid shaped up in a New York minute! You go after people's assets and they are in big trouble and nobody wants that. It can wipe you out very quickly...

Good idea...

[CitizenRob]

171. Or, when they lose their house, their kid won't be going to school in district anymore.

Bully problem solved.

[ejbr]

52. Anyone who sees this going on and tolerates it

is as fucked in the head as the ones doing it as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who has a problem with that kid would have had a problem with me, MVP high school football. I'd have found that prick and made him think twice about pulling that shit again, mark my words. Unacceptable.

"First they came for the communists, but I remained silent..."

[opihimoimoi]

53. School yard bullies very often grow up as serial bullies..in the work place, home, & social settings

Googlr BULLY, NPD, ABUSOR

Read of Tim Feilds

This is SERIES SHIT....whad you think is in our White House..?... Pubs are Bullies too...all too many of them that is..

[Sheets of Easter]

56. Then folks wonder why some kids spray schools with a hail of gunfire.

We really are devolving, aren't we?

[aikoaiko]

59. school officials, police, and self-defense training

It sounds like all three are needed.

[erpowers]

60. Teach the Kid to Fight-Get School Officials Fired

I understand some will say that it the wrong thing to do. However, in my opinion the best way to stop a bully is to beat him one time. I think if the kid fought back a little some of the kids would leave him along.

On the other hand some of the school officials need to be fired for not doing enough. It seems that part of the problem is the fact that some of these kids may think they will not get in trouble of they pick on this one kid.

[Akoto]

61. I was bullied in middle/high school. Ruined my life.

It's important to note that it wasn't always physical bullying, either. The mental bullying - insulting my appearance, berating other things about me - was equally hurtful.

Having to face that every day wore me down until I finally developed an anxiety disorder and dropped out. I went on to get my diploma independently, but I continue to deal with the anxiety today.

Unfortunately, the 'fight back' tactic doesn't work for everyone. Some people are simply not built to take the constant abuse and rejection that goes on in school. I'm only 23, and I know things have gotten worse since I was in school. There needs to be help for the victims, and good, shameless access to counseling for those who need it.

[knitter4democracy]

92. Like one of my students said, "When you hear it every day, it's hard not to believe."

It was one of those days in student teaching when my remedial English kids were really down. So, I started telling them how much progress they'd made and how smart they were. Then, one of my students piped up and said that. I cried. I couldn't help it. All those damaged kids who needed hugs (illegal for me to touch them, but I did give some of them side hugs on the way out of class that day) and someone to believe in them and someone to keep them safe from all the abuse.

[riverdeep]

110. Illegal for you to touch them? A hug?

Wow. Thanks to sexual perverts, everybody's punished.

[knitter4democracy]

144. Yup. In most states, it's illegal for teachers to touch students at all.

In Michigan, for example, teachers can only touch their students to protect themselves, to protect other students, to protect school property, or in self-defense. That means no hugs, which is a good and bad thing. Some students really need safe hugs from their teachers, and they need to be taught how to touch other people in a safe and respectful manner.

[MADem]

115. If someone helped you "fight back" by helping you to file charges, walking you through

the criminal process, getting a judgment, and then going back and getting a CIVIL judgment for cash on the barrel against the perpetrator's PARENTS, that sort of thing might have empowered you and you wouldn't be suffering as you are today. And others would be put on notice to just leave you the fuck alone, or else.

There's something to be said for the "Old School" ways, too, where a principal or teacher had a little more leeway to deal with these punks, and could grab them by the ear and toss them out on their ass, whereupon they'd have to go to "reform school" until they got their shit together.

[Echo In Light]

62. America has big heap numbers of hateful, violence-lovin', sports-worshipin' authoritarians

Which is why "Might Equals Right" right wing propaganda is so omnipresent here, while liberal/progressive views and ideologies are considered "weak," or at the least, attributable only to "crazy conspiracy wackos."

[riverdeep]

122. Kids do absorb the values of the environment around them. n/t

[HughBeaumont]

65. The next school shooting is going to come from this town.

Fucking assholes. Humans have not learned a goddamned THING from Columbine.

. . . FUCK. When I read about shit like this it makes my fucking blood BOIL to no fucking end. These goddamned coital mistakes should be charged with fucking assault and their names should be made PUBLIC, to let the public know what goddamned loathsome FUCKS they all are.

This is assault. And that motherfucking school official who said "he brought it on himself"? Fire that son of a bitch now. This kid is going to wind up dead from either his tormentors or his own hand someday, and fuckers like this will be the reason.

[distantearlywarning]

66. I was bullied in middle school.

It stopped when I started fighting back. Even if you lose fights, bullies will go find an easier target if their victim puts up any serious resistance.

If this were my kid, I would have had him in martial arts classes years ago. And there would be an understanding in my house that there would be no real punishment for fighting back, regardless of what the school did or said about it. E.g., if he got suspended for fighting with his tormentors, we'd spend the suspension week doing whatever fun thing he wanted to do in lieu of classwork.

There would also be an understanding that if he were in a bystander position that it would be his duty to stand up for the victim, regardless of the cost.

The only reason bullies get away with their BS is because "neutral" people let them get away with it and victims are too scared to fight back. Change both of those variables and there will be no more bullying.

Now of course, this is only about physical bullying. Relational bullying is much, much harder to deal with...

ON EDIT: My school was just like the one described here - administrators who didn't care or punished the victim. And that was 20 years ago, so obviously not much has changed. I should say that I know things *can* be different - I changed high schools after my sophomore year, and my second high school was much less "cliqueish" and I saw little bullying there. The main difference between the two schools was that my first high school was all about football and a lot of rich kids went there, while my second high school had a bigger emphasis on academics and arts. The cool kids in the "bullying" high school were the ones who played sports and whose parents made a lot of money, while the cool kids in the non-bullying high school were the ones who did student council, AP classes, orchestra & theatre, etc. During the two (very happy) years I spent in the non-bullying school, we voted as Prom King/Queen the 1) #1 theatre guy in school, 2) a punker with a green mohawk, 3) a football quarterback with a 4.0 gpa (who was very nice and smart, and who I never once saw being mean to anyone), and 4) the girl who was the concert master violinist for All-State orchestra and the valedictorian of her class. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that it's not just simply a matter of "human nature". Schools can change and people can change. It IS possible to have a great school that includes and values everyone, regardless of their interests, looks, socio-economic status, etc.

[devilgrrl]

67. Who wants to bet that the "Bullies" are the "good kids"

I'll bet you any amount of money that the kids doing the pounding are the teachers favorite students.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit.

[Echo In Light]

68. Remember that grizzly Powder Puff hazing in that wealthy Chicago suburb?

This was ritualistically carried out against younger girls by the older ones year after year. All of those charged were the TOP STUDENTS, the popular ones, right, yet they beat and brutalized, including making girls eat feces and paint thinner, in front of a cheering mob for 90 min, and NO ONE intervened.

[distantearlywarning]

69. Yep.

That was my experience. It wasn't the ones who were poor or beaten at home or whatever.

It was the kids whose parents bought them a convertible BMW on their 16th birthday, and who all the adults thought were perfect.

[riverdeep]

111. I'd bet on that, too.

This idea that bullies are always deprived is nonsense. They have a warped sense of power, but they are often popular enough and well-connected to get away with it.

[knitter4democracy]

145. I doubt it.

I taught for three years after getting my teaching degree, and I never knew anyone who defended bullying. In fact, we all did what we could to fight it, but usually, parents would go against us.

[RedCappedBandit]

70. Billy should get to the gym and learn to defend himself!

Not to say it is his fault these clowns assault him - but he can surely do something about it.

[Bluebear]

74. Yes, he should get all beefed up & really learn how to fight like a man.

:eyes:

[devilgrrl]

76. My nephew with asperger's is incessantly bullied and not interested in fighting back.

He's a non-violent person period. My sister has suggested martial arts classes but he couldn't be bothered.

[RedCappedBandit]

85. Learning to defend yourself is nothing to be ashamed about

Don't roll your eyes at me .. if he is able to stand up for himself, he won't be bullied.
Like I said, i'm not blaming him, but he could do something about it.

[Bluebear]

101. It's not given to everyone to be able to "stand up for themselves"

So maybe he CAN'T 'do something about it'. I know you don't understand it, but it's true.

[RedCappedBandit]

102. You don't know anything about me ...

don't be so confrontational. Just offering an opinion.
Obviously nothing is black and white. Doesn't mean he shouldn't try.
Nothing in the article implies he is incapable of standing up for himself.
FWIW, I know its easier said than done. I was bullied all the way through elementary school until the end of high school, and I didn't do anything about it.

[Bluebear]

104. Sorry, I get upset with people who say the victim is at all at fault

I realize you are not intending to do that. Bullies suck.

[baby_mouse]

87. No...

...the guy who assaulted him *shouldn't* have assaulted him.

[RedCappedBandit]

88. Duh

Shit happens, though.


I'm sure you knew that.

[backscatter712]

98. Rule number one of fighting a bully: Don't fight fair.

Bullies pick their targets in such a way as to make the fight unfair - they'll gang up on the target, or they'll pick a target half their size.

My solution, if my kid was bullied, I'd have him attack the bully from ambush with a baseball bat.

Don't fight fair. Make it unfair in your favor.

[Cronopio]

174. Exactly. They don't believe in "fair", so make them have to try to get along without it. nt

[HughBeaumont]

134. One of two things will happen:

1. The school will expel the victim for defending himself (Zero tolerance), because schools are run by assholes who do not care. Just so long as they can be hands-off or hands tied as usual, instead of doing the right thing and expelling the bullies ONLY forever, sending a message that this is an institution of learning, not a goddamned one-sided fight club. This is why I never fought back because I knew exactly how school administrators worked and I would get arrested for assault while the jock douche gets a slap on the wrist.

2. The physically assaulted bully will NOT look for another victim; instead, he'll go into testosterone-rage and retaliate with several of his friends, or worse yet, use a deadly weapon and severely maim or kill the victim so he's NUMMER ONE!

Never mind that not every kid is capable of fighting back or fighting back successfully. Never mind that the outcome that a bully is actually going to leave you alone should you fight back is painfully optimistic at best, dangerously misguided at worst. By all means, we should simply continue the great "might makes right" American tradition of unprovoked violence and make our schools just as fearsome a place as possible to go into. You know, instead of actually intervening and sending a message that victimization and assault, whether verbal or physical should not be tolerated by any means. Send the message. You want to pick on other kids because you have unresolved anger issues, DO IT ELSEWHERE. Not in our school.

[RedCappedBandit]

157. Is there something wrong with standing up for yourself?

Or standing up for what is right, for that matter?

[HughBeaumont]

159. Nothing at all.

We all like to dream how things ideally could be, should the right circumstances and the right amount of reliance in people's reactions to heroism come into play. But more often than not, standing up for oneself, however necessary and noble, often leads to consequences that could haunt the victim for months and years down the road.

School officials don't see "finally . . . he stood up for himself, how brave". They see "he FOUGHT . . . just like that other punk who was messing with him. And I'm sorry, but rules are rules. I got parents and a school board to answer to, and the sooner these kids become someone ELSEs problem, the better off I'LL be!" As long as this do-nothing attitude preveals among parents, police and school officials, bullying is NEVER going to get eradicated. Putting the onus on the victim to rely on himself to defend himself and then punishing him for doing so (which is most often the case) is never a positive and often dangerous solution. It could also make him a target.

Bullies don't and never have cowered down to their victims, that's just not what they do. They'll listen to one of two things - a severe assbeating with a weapon that puts him in the hospital (and no one wants it to come down to that, because that leads to expulsion and then arrest for AWIDW of the victim in the real world) or, ideally, jail time. Because let's face it: what the bully is doing is committing a CRIME. They need to be TREATED as a criminal and locked up in juvie with real criminals to calm their ass down. Officials and counselors there can then asses what's wrong with the kid and his homelife.

[Cronopio]

176. "... consequences that could haunt the victim for months and years down the road."

Very true. The right move often has a heavy price tag attached, but the alternative for targets is to wait for the permission/supportive circumstances to stand up for themselves that may never come.

If the bully has organizational support in the school, the MO of the target has to be "By any means necessary." My MO is, if the target isn't giving in to the bully culture, they've got my full support, even at the cost of getting targeted myself. I've lost paychecks doing this, but the alternative is worse.

That's the only solution I can think of - the one I can supply. As John Donne said long ago, "Sometimes to endure is to conquer and destroy."

[Brigid]

138. Deleted.

in the wrong place.

[Brigid]

140. And women who are raped "ask for it."

:eyes:

[RedCappedBandit]

156. yep, thats exactly what I said

thanks for your input :eyes:

I know you can read. I know you're just being snide. Don't know why however.

Obviously, the point I was making is that once bullies realize their victim isn't so helpless they'll move on. Every case is unique, sure, but what HARM is there in learning to STAND UP for yourself? Sheesh.

[BreweryYardRat]

75. This kid's parents aren't supporting him properly.

They're just complaining to the school system -- that does NO good. You should do it a few times to establish a record of the school not doing anything (potentially useful in court), but past a certain point, all the complaints are worthless.

Speaking as someone who is pretty screwed up, with some of that emotional damage caused by bullying, any kid of mine will be instructed in no uncertain terms to fight back. Preferably with an object that will do enough damage to make the bullies leave them alone -- a skinny kid like this is going to have trouble inflicting any real pain with hands and feet alone. Fighting back doesn't always work, but it's better than doing nothing.

And in a situation this bad, you bet your ass I'd make sure some of those bullies wound up on the wrong side of a pine box and six feet of dirt.

Sometimes people change, but this kid is gonna get killed before his tormentors grow up. If they do.

[zonkers]

93. Those parents are fucking up.

[Midlodemocrat]

83. My son was bullied in middle school.

The bus driver did nothing. The school wouldn't do anything. I had the bus driver fired and I pulled him out of school for eighth grade.

He grew 10 inches and put on almost 100 pounds in that year. Thank God he's not a bully because he would seriously hurt someone. He remembers all too well that fear and sticks up for kids who are being picked on. Although I have to say, there isn't a lot of it at their school. His sister's class, the first graduating class at a new high school, apparently made a unilateral decision not to allow bullying. Anyone who does pick on another kid gets their ass handed to them. It's nice to see. One kid last year was the victim of a horrible, horrible prank and the older kids came down on the perpetrators like the Wrath of God.

Oh, and one of the kids who bullied my son ended up in juvenile hall. Payback's a bitch sometimes.

[treestar]

84. Is bullying a thing of our culture?

Does it happen in Europe or Asia or India or the Middle East?

Just curious.

[lightningandsnow]

89. Hmm.

Definitely happens in Canada. I was bullied pretty steadily from preschool to about grade 9 or so.

I think it might be kind of universal. But who knows.

[treestar]

94. I googled it a little and it exists in the UK

Which was not a surprise. So it might be safe to assume it exists in Australia and any British-based culture.

A lot of cultures are British-influenced, too.

[Cronopio]

172. Unfortunately, us aspies often get singled out for that treatment.

I'm glad you've made it through that experience with your compassion intact.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

105. It's a huge problem in Japan

:shrug:

[riverdeep]

114. Bullying is a universal.

It occurs in every society, to some degree. The reason is, it's biologically based behavior. You can see this in primates. Junior males in particular pick on lesser ranked males in order to increase their own relative rank. And that's all it is in us. The kids are doing it because now they have someone to feel superior to. This is a powerful draw.

By describing it in this way, I don't mean nothing can be done about it, not at all. Biology acts as a potential waiting to be actualized by the right situation. Changing the system of rewards and punishments, and most of all, making it 'abnormal' to pick on someone, has powerful disincentives. In other words, having the community-parents, school board, principal, teachers, and yes law enforcement if needed-take it seriously can work.

Most of all, values need to altered. Because someone is different doesn't mean they are weaker or have nothing to offer. Strange kids can be cool. Get to know them, or at least leave them alone.

Someone mentioned that schools that value sports the most tend to have harsher bullying problems than schools that emphasize academics and the arts. That in no way surprises me. If you've got a bullying-prone kid, this is good info to have. I'd stay away from Texas.

[knitter4democracy]

90. I'll never forget dealing with one of my students who was bullied.

There were several on the basketball team who were bullying him pretty badly. He finally wrote a suicide note for a class assignment in my class, and I lost it. I had been trying to put pressure on the bullies through some of their friends and had reported stuff, but that note finally got everything to happen.

I'm still furious that we almost lost an amazing shining light of a boy just because some other boys decided he was a target. Grrrr!

[Brigid]

135. Clearly that boy was reaching out for help.

He surely picked the right person to turn to. It might not have been so obvious to just anyone. Thanks for helping him. :hug:

[knitter4democracy]

146. He was one of three students who wrote suicide notes in my classes.

I only taught for three years after spending five years getting my teaching degree. I still pray for them and hope they're safe and healthy.

Nothing makes your heart stop like reading a note from a beloved student that says, "If you don't help me, I'm going home tonight to kill myself." Nothing. I still get nightmares, and I haven't taught since my seven year old was born.

[mamalone]

96. My oldest daughter has Asperger's syndrome

School was a living hell for her, especially once she hit junior high. This is part of the reason why we homeschool now. My other kids are bright and "popular" but still I don't want them to be in an environment that allows this kind of unkindness. Even if they aren't the ones being victimized they are adversely affected.

[Rex]

99. Some people are evil

and all one can hope is they grow out of it over time. That or we go back to corporal punishment in schools. Like we can ever do that.

[Lorien]

100. I was the Billy Wolfe at my school

From first grade through High school I attended with the same group of kids-and the same gang of bullies. I didn't get beaten very often (girls generally don't), but I was teased incessantly and was always having money and other items stolen from me. I was speech impaired, wore coke bottle thick glasses, had braces for seven years and a facial deformity that wasn't corrected until I was 19. It wasn't much better at home; I was the black sheep there as well. The school administrators tried to tell me that the boys just "liked me" and that why they threw spitballs and soda cans at me as I walked to school. I was a "B" student in school, but I'm sure I would have done far better if I would have been given just a little peace once in a while. I was nearly hospitalized for anorexia in High School( I was trying to make myself disappear), but still, I never found help anywhere. As an adult I've taken anti-depressants for most of my life and I still battle with a lot of fears about being in public or being viewed by others (I have only a handful of photos of myself). The effects of bullying can last a lifetime. I seriously hope that Billy can get some help-move elsewhere, get some therapy-anything. No child should be forced to endure that. It DOES NOT "build character".

[riverdeep]

116. Don't know what to say to that.

Except sorry you had to experience that. In case you didn't already know it, none of it was your fault, and there was nothing wrong with you. The fault lay in people surrounding you, who couldn't handle difference without seeing an advantage for themselves.

[HughBeaumont]

137. And don't you just love when people said . . .

. . . "in () years, high school and all it's BS will be over."

No. It's NOT. Some of us are still battling the bullshit to this day.

:grouphug:

[Cronopio]

173. In some ways, it's easier to deal with in school.

When the bullied (and the bullies) get paycheck power, the game gets much nastier and even more repugnant. Some of the bullied I've met wuss out to the dark side and spend entire careers trying to get revenge for high school. And if you don't join in with their personal vendetta ...

It was so much easier to meet them walking home from school and give them a black eye to show off to everyone else the next day.

[Thickasabrick]

148. Wow....thanks for sharing that. If people like you who this has

happened to speak up more (especially at school board meetings, legislative sessions, etc.), then I think people will begin to realize that this stuff does have lifetime implications.

I'm not sure how I feel about the parents keeping this kid Billy in the same school - I think even after 6 months, I would have found an alternative school...but that's just me.

Bottom line - it needs to be stopped - everywhere.

[goddess40]

112. For anyone that this story breaks your heart r run for your school board

Help be part of the solution.

Buy a copy of The Bully, the Bullied, and the Bystander: From Preschool to High School--How Parents and Teachers Can Help Break the Cycle of Violence by Barbara Coloroso. Reading this book you realize something can be done about the problem, nothing will ever stop bullying but we sure can bring it down to manageable levels.

[Echo In Light]

117. Manifestations of corporate/consumer culture "traditions."

Without finding a national platform to begin addressing the small steps to change this diseased culture, you won't change the predominant cultural mindset - shaped by corporate America.

So what it amounts to is suggesting to children, here's what's correct, a moral truth ... yet here's what prevails in our culture, which is why many of your schoolmates behave as they do, because their parents teach them these specific "values" by perpetuating the corporate culture's "values" via their own cultural indoctrination.

In other words, many of the the things that are taught to children that are sold as "good," "normal," "all American," are actually poison jive that feeds corporate tyrannies.

An uphill battle, to be sure. And yes, I'm a parent.

[leftofthedial]

118. shock and awe, baby

shock and awe!


WOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

That's what I'm talkin about!

USA Number 1! USA Number 1!

[HughBeaumont]

136. (s)Elect a violent president . . .

. . . expect a violent culture.

[riverdeep]

120. Some questionable solutions being offered.

There are people who are advocating homicide in retaliation. I understand the frustration. If the parents get involved, then it is seen as 'hiding behind a skirt'. If they let the kid handle it, well, not all kids can handle it. Not every kid is going to be able to learn how to fight. And call me crazy, but just because you can't fight is no reason to be tormented. That's just using bully logic.

It'd be great if he went to a boxing school and fought, and 'stood up for himself', and the bullies backed down, like the script says they will. But this is 2008, where the costs of violence can be high. What's to stop the kids from getting more motivated by having a kid that fights back ineffectively? Ganging up and beating into a coma? Nothing.

It'd be even greater if we, the ADULTS, realized that even though this is behavior that's been around for a long time, that doesn't make it right. Domestic violence was seen as 'normal'. If you hit 'your' woman, that was your business, hell, she shouldn't have mouthed off! Attitudes can change, even well-entrenched cultural attitudes.

What would I do if this were my kid? Hopefully, I'd have intervened long before this. Talking to the parents of the bullies, the school (which they did). And, yeah, teaching him to fight. Watch the situation develop, and if it gets worse, move the kid and sue the school for everything I could. Maybe next time, they'll take it seriously. I'd also have tried to help him develop friends early on, friends (especially well connected, and large friends) are one of the best insurance policies against bullying getting out of hand.

But, really, it shouldn't have to come to any of this if the adults acted like it.

[1monster]

126. My son was being pushed around at the bus stop by another boy in the

neighborhood who had given him problems several years before when they were in elementary school together. They had gone to different middle schools and I was not happy to learn that the boy would be going to the same high school as my son.

After school one afternoon, the boy shoved my son into the path of an oncoming car (less than fifty feet away). My son managed to get out of the way of the car, and after picking himself up, he said, "Sometimes, I wish I could shoot that kid!"

He never said another word about the incident, even to me, since, after the boy's sister laid into him for that, he left my son alone.

However, another girl in the neighborhood, who attended the same school, and who witnessed the incident, started gossiping about it all over the place. The neighborhood boy's part was left out of the gossip. Three weeks after the incident, with gossip about my son running high, the same girl went to the school resource officer in tears, telling him that she had witnessed the original incident and that she heard other kids gossiping about my son wanting to shoot the boy, and that she was afraid my son was going to shoot up the school.

Upshot, the school called me and told me they were suspending my son for five days for making threats. Despite the fact that the incident did not take place at school, at a school function, or even at the bus stop where the school claims jurisdiction.

They also labled my son a hoodlum, with gossip reaching my husband (from the spouse of a part time teacher at the school) that our son was "a dangerous, attention-seeking, psychopathic, ticking time bomb."

I fought the school on this, but they lied and said the whole thing took place at the school. The resource officer and the principal, who had something to prove for reasons I won't go into, let me know very unsubtly that they would take my son out of school in handcuffs eventually.

I removed him from the school and placed him in another one where he has had no problems (no problems at any of his previous schools either).

The problem is that some of the people who run the schools are bullies too.

I have learned a valuable lesson from all of this, though. If there is ever another problem, I will get a lawyer first and let him/her sort it out with the school district.

It has been a couple of years, now. But I am still very angry. They deprived my son of the courses he needed and could only get at that school.

The irony? The kid who shoved my kid is now going to the school where I moved my son.

[riverdeep]

133. I see a pattern developing.

Most schools, it seems, just want this to end, and whatever it takes to end it, great. Like when a prosecutor makes an arrest on a big case. That they've got someone is what matters. That they did it or not, maybe less important.

We need to look at schools that have handled these situations effectively and learn from them.

[knitter4democracy]

147. I would be furious, too!

How awful! Have you warned the asst. principal at the new school about this bully and their shared history? I would.

I'd also get your son a decent tape recorder or cell phone with a good video camera to record this kind of stuff, just to make sure.

[1monster]

162. The school knows about it. In fact school #1 actually called school #2 and trashed my

son to them before I had even decided to take him out of school #1.

Fortunately for my son, the assistant principal at the school at that time had spent the previous semester at my son's middle school and knew my son.

As I stated, he had no problems (other than being bullied by a couple of kids) at any other school. He was well-liked by the teachers and resource staff.

As for the kid who pushed him into the path of the car, I spoke to him myself. I told him that if he ever so much as touched my son again, there would be BIG trouble. I wasn't mean. I just made sure he knew that, like Horton the Who, I said what I meant and I meant what I said.

No further trouble from him since then.

[knitter4democracy]

169. Thank goodness for a good administrator who remembered your son.

I can just imagine how that could've escalated. *shudder*

[1monster]

177. Even so, they gave me a hard time. But after the entrance interview, they were great.

[SKKY]

141. This is going to be something I'll have to work on before I retire and become a teacher...

...I have no patience for this stuff, and even less for the parents of kids who do this.

[avenger64]

143. Prosecute them to the fullest extent...

... no one should be treated that way - it'll scar him for life. Sometimes kids like that become vengefully violent themselves. Either way, they internalize it.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

150. This shit scares me.

Because I know what it's like to be weaker. In a physical fight, I would drop simply because I have no muscle. I also know that that is the worst position to put someone in, because with a little knowledge, it can be easy as hell to gain the upper hand without ever being seen. And I think that this kid might just do that, and god damn if I don't blame him a bit.

[NuttyFluffers]

151. all these kids need love and good storytelling

and some good ol' fashioned shame/sin ingrained into them. obviously other cultures, like Native American ones, got it right when they did not have epidemics of hateful and abusive behavior, like bullying. perhaps there's a lot of wisdom there on how to raise good people which we should be tapping into.

[jzodda]

152. I read this article and found it extremely disturbing

What is going on in this country? Whats going on with our kids?

[entanglement]

155. Terminology is everything...it's aggravated assault, a felony offense, not 'bullying'

[Lyric]

164. The worst part is that no parent ever wants to believe that

their little "angel" could EVER do something like THAT. As a victim of chronic bullying and school violence (at least until I got to high school and was suddenly bigger than the little assholes who tortured me in junior high) I can say firsthand that EVERY SINGLE BULLY was one of those sweet little middle-class "angels" from a nice home, with nice parents and nice clothes. Every. Single. One. I bet their parents never dreamed that their sweet-natured little darlings could possibly hurt a fly, much less hurt another child on a regular basis. Unfortunately the teachers usually didn't believe it either--how could these clean, well-dressed, straight-A students ever do something that awful? :eyes:

I'm all for the idea of cameras in every school hallway and classroom, because videotaped evidence is really the only way to convince most Americans that a surprising chunk of the "nice" middle-class kids are actually self-absorbed sadists (or at least eggers-on) the minute they think that no adults are watching.

[lonestarnot]

167. Somebody in this story needs their ass kicked and it isn't Billy Wolfe!