WJ this morning: War - should public opinion matter?

[malaise]

Let's go DUers! Tell Cheney to go fuck himself!

[Echo In Light]

1. Was just watching Nick Davies {Flat Earth News}

Defend his findings against some "Golden Agers," and it was announced at the bottom of the screen that the founder of Code Pink will also be on WJ at 7:15.

[malaise]

2. Looks like a good program today n/t

[stellanoir]

3. Only in Democracies

never mind

[Echo In Light]

4. How about pretend ones?

[stellanoir]

5. You know I've thought about it for a long time.

Between the damned voting machines, faked polls, sycophantic media, are we even a pretend one anymore?

When this misadministration arrogantly and dismissively says "we don't pay attention to polls," what they are essentially saying is, "we don't care what you think."

It' mind numbing and probably is so by design.

[malaise]

6. The loonies are out in their numbers

WTF is this guy really saying. We don't have a choice!!!

[Echo In Light]

7. And will continue until power is held accountable by the populace

Which explains a great deal about our corporate/consumer culture: keep em asleep, keep em distracted, keep em uncritical, uncaring.

[stellanoir]

13. Yup all that

coupled with the apathy of so many corporate slaves stuck in survival mode just working to pay the bills.

Still I am hopeful that things will turn around relatively soon because things as they are are really quite unsustainable.

Or as the old expression goes. . ."If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we are headed."

[bdamomma]

19. and keep them dumbed down.

Now is our time to rise to the occasion, and make our voices known. We can control this situation if we really look into our own souls and say enough, and enough to these thugs.

[KharmaTrain]

8. Gotta Love The Framing Of The Question...

Typical of C-SPIN...it's as though you think this illegal occupation and war for profit you're some goofy...instead of being in the majority. And by manipulating the phone calls...a usual C-SPIN game...we'll hear far more repugnicans than we need to.

The good thing is the most obnoxious wingnut callers so far are coming from predominately Blue states. It's just incredible how the corporate media keep looking for something/anything good to say about this regime. No wonder their credibility continues to sink and why they've had troubles predicting and reporting the primaries.

We now have a large Silent Majority in this country that not only is against Iraq but virtually everything the GOOP stands sfor...hopefully that message will be delivered in a big way this November.

[Echo In Light]

10. A Silent Majority against the "war" incapable of explaining how it isn't actually a "war"

...if you follow.

In other words, there are many who, on a visceral level, are naturally against war, and have by now formulated the notion that Bushco is bad news ... yet {and this comes from experience} if one attempts to illustrate to them some of the nuts and bolts of how/why our govt, the corporate/state nexus, works, its aims and intentions, you quickly discover that the establishment self defense mechanism kicks in, even with many who oppose "the war," because reality crosses over into involving mass conspiracy of profits over people. Granted, this phenomenon is wearing down as the obvious cannot be so easily denied when its effects are so substantial and widespread, but that central denial still holds incredible sway over the collective consciousness.

[KharmaTrain]

14. Denial Is All Some Have Left

I also see a game here of people not being able to associate this war for profit and how it is dragging down the economy. For those with Haliburton or Exxon/Mobil or General Dynamics stock, this "war" is good and just as your portfolio tells you so. This is the true "mission accomplished"...and those who are profiting are well hidden and so is their agenda. The corporate media has benefitted greatly from the past 7 years. We've seen how they love war and hate issues that can't be shown with a picture of a dead blonde or hooker or lots of blood and gore. The economy is like a sports ticker...investigative reporting is used to prove something rather than to learn something...and many in our country not only prefer this, they need it to justify a lifetime of stereotypes and inbred hatred that has been milked by the repugnican party.

Cheers...

[Echo In Light]

17. True. Although these ominous elements have prevailed for quite some time

It's only with the brazen belligerence of Bush/Cheney that more have taken notice of what otherwise would be ignored or accepted as "business as usual." I remember Chomsky pointing out how the real "story" of the first Gulf invasion was how the govt said, "we're going to war," and all of the mainline media simply championed the idea unquestioningly - just as they've covered for Bushco all along. Nothing has fundamentally changed, just the degree, and subsequently, public awareness.

[KharmaTrain]

22. The "Upside Of War"

Note the quotation marks...

One of the hidden stories is one I've followed since the 80's and the fall of Eastern Europe. It was how the military/industrial complex would transform to the "peace dividend". Would they be able to turn their swords into plow shares? We didn't need to wait long to find out, as Poppy Boooosh, and specifically, Cheney, saw a buck to be made and a new boogieman to be created. His exit to Haliburton was so appropriate, no?

Throughout the 90's, we had all these whiz-bang sophisticated military systems...most funded during the 80's...contractors with lots of things to go boom and few places to boom 'em. Nothing like a good war to find out if these toys worked and once the government uses them up, they'll buy some more and throw even more money for bigger and better death systems. Changing Ivan to Osama was the final step as now the fear card of Reds under the Bed could now be brown-skinned people ready to slash your throat or fly an airplane into your head or cross your border. A new boogieman open the gates to the corporate media...who saw their ratings soar following 9/11 and then again during the opening days of the Iraq invasion.

Until the economy began to seriously tank, most people weren't affected by this ugly war for profit...and many were sucked into the pictures and noise that the corporate media went crazy with. They not only went to "war", they couldn't wait for it to begin. They had all their new toys to try out as well (remember the reporter in the tank as it was racing to Baghdad???).

The ugly truth is still to be written here...and maybe we're seeing a wholescale collapse of a corrupt economic deck of cards that in turn will open new doors and opportunities. The damage is still to be felt and my hopes are that the anger in this country will demand those responsible be held accountable...if not in the U.S., then the U.N. and the World community needs to step up as well. I won't be satisified until I see Cheney in the dock in the Hague.

[Echo In Light]

24. Perhaps an unravelling...although I suspect the systems are too monstrous...

....and those beholden to them too caught up and demoralized, to put it lightly, that this bunch would sooner stage a pseudo "apocalypse" of sorts {as it would be sold as} as a means of implementing a major global shift to benefit their long term aims. Who knows? ...or things will simply become too out of hand, and, ka-boom.

Optimists like to say that there have been people worried about the 'end of the world' since the dawn of recorded time, and this is true.

The marked difference of our era is, of course, our race hasn't co-existed with mass nuclear/bio/chemical weapons but for a very short time. This, and the host of other environmental dilemmas we now face, make widespread opposition to this corporate crime syndicate, military-industrial complex, a matter of life and death.

[Altean Wanderer]

16. Well said and so sadly true n/t

[malaise]

11. One caller did expose the bias in calls taken so far

IF there was any doubt about the agenda, just look at the first guest.

[KharmaTrain]

12. I've Long Pointed It Out

At one time I suggested to C-SPIN a simple little thing...when they put the name of the state of the caller on the screen, why not color code it...Red, Blue and Green...let us know which line is on. They never reponded...and as one whose watched this show for years, I'm used to seeing the routine of repugnican, Democrat, repugnican, Independent, repugnican lean to the calls...and the itchy trigger finger.

Cheers...

[Supersedeas]

27. their inability to generate any intelligent criticism of this Bush Regime is telling

but they CAN come down hard on the Dems in the primaries....odd, ain't it

[sam sarrha]

9. dont focus on the war.. its the lies to initiate another Milton Friedman Argentine Shock Doctrine

experiment..

this is the same bullshit that caused the torture murders of 250,000 across Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, el Salvador, Guatemala.. in an attempt to create a Utopia out of destroying a country.. while setting us up for the same thru debt collapse. the same people responsible are now in the White House, Bu$h41 is proxied by his son, Negraponte, now 2nd at the State Department, previously head of national Security is said to be directly responsible for the murder of at least 80,000 peasants in Guatamala and the destruction of nearly 600 villages, for the financial benefit of the United Fruit company.. this whole Central and south America endeavor was declared a Genocide by the UN...

read Naomi Klein's "the Shock Doctrine:the rise of disaster capitalism"

this is a documented historical study 558 pages of which 92 are footnotes and index. the book of the century,

[Mr Rabble]

21. You are almost entirely correct.

Actually, Negroponte was "Pro Consul" to Honduras, where he was in charge of running terrorist operations against Nicaragua.

Further, it was the World Court that condemned the US for "unlawful use of force", not the UN. When the World Court sent a resolution to the UNSC, the US Vetoed it. Yup, the US is able to veto a resolution against itself.

What is really striking to me is that since the end of Gulf War 1 the US has been responsible for the deaths of at least 2 million Iraqi's. How is this not considered genocide?

[Maggie_May]

15. public opinion whats that?

Hell he could careless about our laws in government. He is above all.

RBIL, Iraq (AP) — Vice President Dick Cheney played the part of backroom power broker for two days and came away on Tuesday with pledges from Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds to firm up a new blueprint for U.S.-Iraq relations that will stretch beyond the Bush presidency.
Administration officials say they probably will not seek Senate approval of the plan because the agreement will not be a treaty that provides Iraq with specific security guarantees. This position has prompted a backlash in Congress, where Democrats have proposed legislation that would render the agreement null and void without the Senate's blessing.

[annabanana]

30. You know.. that whole "Government of, by & for the People"

Isn't the whole "public opinion" thing related to that, somehow?

[bdamomma]

18. I hope those that are calling are not drinking the kool aid

we definitely have a big big problem, with Cheney. Again he shows his disdain towards the American people, and how filthy this man is. He is a treasonous SOB.

[bdamomma]

20. Should we call Rep. Wexler's office and say it is time

for impeachment for DICK. He has crossed the line now.

[KharmaTrain]

23. Medea Benjamin...This Should Get A New Thread...

Let people know to tune in...

[malaise]

25. Watching

Go Medea

[KharmaTrain]

26. I'm Trying To Catch Up

I just spent a few days in Swamp Rat land...taking a DU vacation. I'll be catching up all day. :rofl:

[VP505]

28. From my perspective public opinion

ought to be used by the elected to measure how well they are serving their constituents. When someone such as a Vice President says he doesn't care what the people he works for thinks its time for him to be replaced by someone who does care, after all, he is part of the executive branch supposedly working for the benefit of we the people.

[Serial Mom]

29. Of course it should matter! It is our money they are using

Let them and their kids fight it and let them pay for it!

And they REPRESENT US - the constituents! We the People....

So....????!!!!! :wtf:

[tabasco]

31. No, the public just needs to enlist.

Our betters will decide when we have to fight and die.

Our betters like Dick Cheney, who had five military deferments.