I am more concerned about where this economy is headed

[blues90]

More so than what any candidates poll ratings are .

I have not heard any candidate address how they will attempt to correct the economic mess we are in . I don't know what either will do about the Iraq occupation . I have no clues as to how jobs that pay enough to support just a couple will be brought about .

All the focus is on elections .

We really don't know anymore than who is ahead or behind in these primaries .

If the economy tanks and the dollar continues to fall and if we do attack Iran then we are truely sunk before we begin with a new start .

I don't think we have seen the worst of the corporate bail outs or bank failures .

Without a true picture of this then what will elections do ?

People can talk all about racial issues and sexual issues but when most people are broke there is not much any can do .

I still feel if it were not for the population allowing the corporations to gain the power we would not be in this mess and then we would be able to tackle other issues but certainly not now .

The only ones who seem to hold onto hope are not the ones who are now broken and poor and watching their jobs flow out of the country .

How many people who are now past 50 have lost everything they have worked for and they did do all the right things ? How many have watched their jobs vanish and had no control but had to sit there and watch .

We can't just move ahead because of an election , what we should have done was impeach to stop the madness and force the corporations to pay their share of the taxes and yet it continues to get worse .

You know as well as I that bush and all others who robbed the people in this country will walk away free and clear and yet we are told we can move forward and we can rebuild .

It is made to sound so easy like getting the foot ball back from the other team and the game is over .

I'm afraid that all the racism and divide will finally end when most of us are all standing on the wrong
side of the tracks which is exactly where we are heading .

[elehhhhna]

1. Stay tuned! Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5140909

[elehhhhna]

2. Stay tuned! Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5140909

[Mojambo]

3. I miss John Edwards... n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

20. So do I! We were cheated, again!

x( And I am not getting over it, EVER!

[RestoreGore]

34. We sure were, and I will not forget it

[Donnachaidh]

4. John Edwards did -- and he FORCED the *showponies* to address some things

He's the only one who was on point from day one.

The two left? They'll give flowery speeches and then tie up everything in committees (made up of their political cronies for payback) and watch as the entire middle class finishes the final swirlie circle that will sink it.

I miss John Edwards.

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. !!!

:thumbsup: We were cheated by the greedy PTB! All of us will pay dearly for it!

[femrap]

39. I miss Edwards as well....I still want to know

WHY he 'suspended.'

I read today that the Fed may not be rich enough to bail us out! I had to laugh...or else I'd cry.

[earth mom]

5. Edwards was the only decent candidate and people should be outraged that he's gone.

Instead we get a bunch of b.s. from Obama nuts around here who are no different than fundie freepers supporting a candidate who will be no different than *!

I am just thoroughly disgusted with DU and anyone who is supporting Obama. I can't stand Hillary, but at least she isn't going all fundie on us!



I want to know how in the hell are we at this place after SEVEN LONG YEARS of b.s. from * & Co?!

Have we learning NOTHING at all?!!!

I tell ya and I hate to say it, but at this point this country and it's people are getting what they deserve.

Voting for status quo will NOT get us anywhere! Edwards warned us, even though we should have already known it in the first place.



Meanwhile, far too many around DU are in huge denial and let things like emotion and race and idolization cloud their thinking.

Sorry, but we are NO WHERE without rational, critical thought!

So, Stick a fork in this country, it's done!

:rant:

[blues90]

7. Well I agree but you can't express that here without

Getting told get over it or move on or you are bitter because your candidate lost .

That's the trouble with people in this country , they ride on emotional highs and toss out a speech as if this has any effect on what has already happened .

It should be clear that Edwards was ignored because he took a stand against the corporations who own the media and banks and every other corp who is robbing this country blind .

I am sick of the attitude that is , here are the two candidates love one and pick one and live with it .

Now , what happens if once either is the next president and things do not resemble at all what they have told us ? This is what always happens , we get to pick what is offered like it or not and there is no room for discussion .

I am not a sore loser , I know what this is all about . I did not like Kerry , I was for Edwards in 2004 .

Edwards was in new orleans for some time . i did not see Hillary or Obama there once .

These two hopefuls have had so many chances to do the right thing and yet only when they want your support or donations for their own motive and goal in life then they pick issues long after the fact and run with them .

They say they are not for war yet not one was out there when all the protests to stop or end the war were going on . They did not stand up for the people on any issue yet they fill their personal sites with voting records and personal info .

They also hold onto their senate seats during the elections so if they do lose they still have a home and a job . Edwards did not .

No , as an Edwards supporter you are not allowed a voice or a choice .

If you say anything about either Hillary or Obama you are scum now . See these supporters will flame you and insult you even if their own candidate tells them to be open minded and be a good democrat so they don't even follow the advice of Obama or Hillary yet they claim to support their policies .

All I know is that we live in a world of hate on many levels which is controlled by big business and the corporate owned media and spewn out by highly paid talking heads . They own the government as this is where we are at . We were warned long ago and we just went on as always and here we are so screwed we don't even know the depths of it yet .

[earth mom]

9. Couldn't agree with you more-that was an awesome post!

:applause:

I like how you spelled out exactly how H & O and their supporters are hypocrites.

You know something? I didn't know that Hillary or Obama never went to New Orleans after Katrina. That is stunning to me-especially Obama. :wow:

Do you think that would matter to any of the cultists on GD-P?!

Hell NO!

How insane is that?!

Yep-We are so screwed that we dont' even know the depths of it yet. :yoiks:

[pitohui]

11. hillary and bill clinton have certainly visited post-katrina new orleans

in fact they've visited several times, bill was here like two days ago, at a rally in the lower 9th ward with brad pitt, who has brought a great deal of rebuilding money to the city

bill clinton brought fema back to health after the horror that was andrew and i'm confident that hillary would do the same if she gets into office, what the bushes destroy CAN be fixed if you get competent people in there and natural disaster aid is something close to bill's heart

i won't swear that obama has visited but i'm pretty sure he has also and that he's aware of the need for FEMA reform (i travel a lot and think he visited more than once while i was out of the country)

don't necessarily buy all the "aint it awful" you read on the internet

edwards, clinton, obama -- any of the three will be miles better than the current mess

[penguin7]

16. Edwards was status QUO

What will Edwards run as next election? His shtick changes each few months

[brentspeak]

26. A candidate who ignores the corporate lobbyists is "status quo"???

Funny definition of 'status quo' you've got there.

[femrap]

41. huh? are you from the RNC trying

to rewrite history or something? I waited decades to hear the anti-corporate greed message...but TPTB would have no part of that.

Instead it was 'DIVIDE AND CONQUER.' Male v. Female. White v. Black. Younger/Gen X v. Older/Boomer

And they are tearing each other apart...it's a very emotional battle. TPTB knew exactly what they were doing. They are destroying the Democratic Party.

Edwards was given NO MSM coverage...why? 80% of the media is owned by 5 rich, white guys who want to destroy the Dem Party. Hell. I wouldn't be surprised if Repugnants weren't financing BO. That is how evil and deceitful this country has become.

Maybe the best thing will be this financial crisis. It will shake people to the core and they will have to sit up and take notice. No more infotainment. Real life will smack them in the faces.

We will have to revert to a community level...so get to know your neighbors and start a garden.

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. We never learn! And that sucks! We are so screwed!

"Hope and change" my ass!

[IronLionZion]

6. Both candidates have detailed policy positions on their websites

you wouldn't know that if you only listen to the mudslinging on GDP.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

[blues90]

10. Oh I know , I have looked at both several times

I really went into as much depth as they offer , this was after i knew Edwards was out .

By the time I was done weighing both sides I was than at a point where they canceled eachother out , some good and bad on both sides but pretty close over all .

I don't see a healthcare plan that will help me and i don't see an end to the occupation and it does seem both will keep us in Iraq for an unknown time . I do realize that neither has the inside info on this occupation but I see votes to fund thr occupation from both and blackwater and other things in there that concern me .

Most of all from the point of the economy they are corporate candidates in many of their views .

[Mike03]

8. They have spoken about Iraq. Otherwise, I agree with you.

But there's damn near nothing that any future POTUS can do about the economic crisis. It was more than a decade in the making, and (generally speaking--there are exceptions) it's the fault of everyone in this country, not the politicians.

[pitohui]

12. there's a great deal POTUS can do about an economic crisis and a good democrat will do it

it is patently untrue that POTUS can't change an economic crisis, we see it over and over again that the GOP craps all over the economy and it's up to us to clean up the mess

who doubts that FDR's leadership made a real difference during the great depression?

who can disagree that after the disaster that was the early 90s and the collapse of the economy caused by the s&l debacle, clinton put us on the right path and created a federal SURPLUS -- bringing a country from the brink of bankruptcy to an unheard of level of prosperity?

edwards was a good candidate but it's my belief that almost any democrat will have access to better advisors and better ideas than the opposition, the thrust of history tells me so -- clinton sure as hell will do a lot and i see no reason why obama wouldn't do a lot too

the economic crisis is not the "fault of everyone in the country," that's just silly and ignorant of facts -- it's the fault of the * administration which said specifically that they would pursue a soft dollar policy, and which specifically allowed predatory lending practices that were illegal under clinton (both bush and reagan promoted predatory lending and deregulation -- you can put this mess squarely on POTUS shoulders)

it is perhaps a weakness in our system that the executive should have this much power but it's beyond denying that POTUS sets the tone about whether or not predatory lending is prosecuted, deregulation and monopolies are promoted and so on

i had no choice in that matter, most people didn't, if you were at fault, knock it off, but don't kid yourself it's somehow the fault of "everyone" when it is the fault of bad leadership and a tiny minority who were unfairly enriched

[Two Americas]

46. yes!

"...but don't kid yourself it's somehow the fault of 'everyone' when it is the fault of bad leadership and a tiny minority who were unfairly enriched."

Damn. You are talking like a Democrat now. Why is that so rare here?

[femrap]

42. Hey, Mike03.....I will not

take responsibility for this financial mess. I have been screaming about this since deregulation in the Raygun years....telling everyone to get out of debt....stop keeping up with the Jones's. I dont' even buy crap made in China.

If only I had screamed louder and more people would have listened.

Today I read that The Fed isn't rich enough to bail us out of this mess. I say...you can't fight gravity. :hide:

[pitohui]

13. well as far as the economy is concerned...

in my view any democrat is better than any republican, the GOP is the party of loot and steal and it can't help but make a difference if we boot them out

the economy was in a very bad way in 1992 if you think back, very very bad, yet within 8 years clinton did the impossible and there was a surplus

as far as the war, we all agree, the war stinks, giving out specifics at this time only makes it harder to negotiate with the enemy later tho

[penguin7]

15. Ron Paul has some good ideas on monetary policy

Both parties want to inflate their way out of this problem. This transfers wealth from savers to debtors and screws over everyone on a fixed income.

If the government comes and bails out those that own houses. This really screws over anyone that does not own a house. Also the bailout will show up in inflation of everything from gasoline to food.

The only good argument for inflating our currency is that foreign governments own tons of dollars. We make their dollar holdings worth less with inflation.

Bailing out Bear Stearns makes no sense at all. The foreigners own the bonds that the bailout is protecting. Let these bonds go to hell, and foreigners have that much less of the country.

[pitohui]

31. ron paul? are you out of your freaking mind?

don't append a note to my post recommending the swill of ron paul

thank you

how does helping people stay housed hurt someone who doesn't own a house? facts not in evidence -- it doesn't hurt them in the slightest and may help them as nobody benefits when you suddenly have a huge new population of homeless people making demands on public services

[femrap]

43. 'inflating the currency'????

What the Fed is doing DEflates our currency. Printing money causes the dollar to decline in value relative to other currencies.

Ron Paul is insane....he shouldn't be allowed to handle money...just his lunch money and that's it. OK, maybe cab fare, but no more than that.

[femrap]

14. Elections are a DISTRACTION from

what is really important.

And this election is designed to destroy the Democratic Party using Divide and Conquer...and it sure is working.

Say hello to Prez McCain and more fascist death of this nation and world.

[blues90]

17. By the time this election is over it will be 3 years of election talk

Most people who have fallen through the cracks are not able to keep up and perhaps many just don't care because it's not going to help them now .

No instead those who have an income and are still doing ok are focused on these elections .

One would have to be a fool to think that this election will suddenly bring in the sun and everything will be just fine , but this seems to be the over all mindset .

Judging from what I read and see at this point there is a great divide between the Dems . There is un-fairness on both sides . There is no good reason to show Hillary's ass every time she makes her way up the steps or to pit Obamas youth against her older age yet this is done to distract .

There is so much damage done now that we know it will take decades to see any change . And change we get as they continue to rob us blind , there is the change .

The protests don't matter , the death does not matter , the job loss seems to be completely ignored as does the occupation .

It's all about some false hope in the political bubble as if this is the life boat that we will all board and have a seat with the course set for paradise .

Each time the republicans have had power they have destroyed a bit more that the Dems never quite get fixed and this time bush has finally pushed things over the edge .

[femrap]

18. Every time I see John Lennon's picture....(your avatar)

I think about his assassination...he was so loved, respected and onto what life is all about...Peace and Respect. I remember where I was when I learned of his death. I was lucky enough to see The Beatles twice when I was a kid...Cincy and Toronto. I still have the ticket stubs....$5.00!!!!

Yeah...we're fucked. I've been watching Amy and Democracy Now the past couple of days....she has the Winter Soldiers. Their testimony is deja vu of Nam. Why do we keep doing this war shit over and over...?

Ever check out 12-21-12? The end of the Mayan Calender? I think the Hopi as well. Could mean a reversal of all of this crap. I'm rather optimistic about it....if I last that long! LOL.

We need another band to come to the fore with some mind-altering ideas.

Take care.

[blues90]

24. I miss Lennon too

I am at the point where I thing the times have changed so much that another group like that is not possible . we had our times and I guess now it is out of our hands and passed onto others .

I am grateful for those times and would not trade them for today even with all of the good and bad back then at least we could find some truth and see a better future , it was a lot easier then than now to achieve a better future .

People these days are always in search of a way to fill a void when what is missing is right there in front of their eyes yet they fail to see it .

I would much rather endure the punches and beatings by the bullies I got back then because of my long hair or even being called gay when in fact I was not than to see what's happening to this world these days .

Music fit the times and offered solutions much better than any poilitical debate we have got today . The power was the people .

[femrap]

35. I've been watching Amy Goodman's

'Democracy Now' the past couple of days. She is televising the Winter Soldiers testimony in DC. Some of the vets have long hair...I take that as a complete positive. I see today as so similar to the days of VietNam. But the youngsters don't seem to know what to do. They're all involved in technology, consumerism...coming out of college in debt...ie slavery. I thought maybe music might touch their souls. But it seems as if there isn't the creativity or imagination today that we had back then.

The financial collapse is just beginning....this will rock them to their core. And not only the youngsters. I have seen this coming and have downsized. In fact I'm on a consumer strike...just buy food and shampoo and essentials...plus I haven't bought anything from China since '89...except certain things that are made only in China...like those lighters for fireplaces.

Where were you living when the bullies attacked? I have always loved long hair...I remember when I was in college I had a boyfriend who had hair longer than mine....and mine was long!!! Guys back then were more aware it seemed. More caring about the world, it's environment and the policies that were affecting it.

I wish all the soldiers would just lay down their arms and refuse to kill any more people. It's that simple...and I am so proud of the Winter Soldiers who are talking about this. John Lennon would have been so happy.

I can still see him singing 'Twist and Shout.' Work it on out!

[blues90]

36. I was living just west of Chicago in Roselle

This was in the 60's . At that time there were still plenty of what were called jocks who road around in the older Cheveys of the 50's in that area and if you had long hair you were the target .

[femrap]

38. I grew up in Ohio...there were the

jocks, the hippies, and the greasers. And maybe rednecks, too.

[blues90]

40. Yes , that describes the different groups as they were then .

I mainly remember the letter men jackets topped off by the crew cuts chasing me through the streets .

[femrap]

45. Those were some ugly dudes....!!!

They looked like robots.

[blues90]

47. At the time they reminded me of Clutch Cargo

If you were to wire all their 6 brain's together you might be able to power a single cell flashlight for about three minutes and it would dim and then go completely out .

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. Indeed!

[Hidden Stillness]

19. Feel Increasingly Disconnected from Corporate-Controlled Results of Everything (Econ., Campaign, etc

The more this campaign goes on, the more I get a totally disconnected, emotionless feeling of a completely manipulated, controlled-and-directed operation, conducted by the male corporate media, to achieve exactly the result they want, for their--not anybody else's--purposes. Either because they just hate women so much, as usual, or because they have decided that Obama is too weak and corrupt to oppose the corprate criminal who now owns everything, they are actively campaigning for Obama, against Clinton, and are becoming more hysterical all the time. Just as when O.J. Simpson the woman-beater murdered Nicole Brown and suddenly--like that--there were no more women commentators on TV, no stories about battered women's shelters or police who let the abusers go, judges who refuse to issue restraining orders, or media that always takes the male's side and pretends the woman is "always lying," no stories about rich males buying a fake "not guilty" verdict, nothing, but instead all these males from the world of SPORTS, like it was a SPORTS story, telling us what a "nice guy" the violent male was, and how "confusing" the facts of the story are. You realized then, how the privileged were going to "work it," and I get the same sense now. They work it so that you "can't" oppose it.

Hillary Clinton was treated with contempt, as an annoying nuisance keeping America from its male, the whole time, and Obama STILL is not investigated, for anything--corporate corruption ties, the vote FOR the "Medicare" Part D disaster, the votes FOR the NAFTA expansions to Peru and Oman, and how that makes a lie of Obama's claim to be "against" NAFTA, not to mention the way the male media "handled" the situation with Obama's advisor and Canada. Anyone who tries to criticize anything, is attacked: the male media itself ATTACKED those who revealed Obama had stolen part of a speech! How bizarre and suspicious does it get? Geraldine Ferraro is viciously attacked, exactly the same way she was when she ran for Vice-President, 24 years ago, smeared as a "racist," guilty until proven innocent, then censored, when she also said she herself only got the V.P. nomination because she was a woman, and the male media censored it; while the hysterical hate of the male minister is "compassionately" cast as "only logical." There were attacks on Hillary Clinton by name--that she had never been called a "nigger," and I thought, no, you stupid fuckass, we are called "BITCHES," and sometimes by black males. The minister said she never suffered being refused by a taxi, and I thought, no you stupid fuckass, we walk down the street and hear, "Show us your tits, Bitch." No, women don't know anything about what it is to be oppressed, right? Yet my group is completely cut out of the discussion, which now resembles nothing so much as a closed corporate ad campaign. We have NO PERSPECTIVE, on the male corporate media.

None of the candidates have health care plans, only commercial insurance connections, and that goes for Edwards's non-plan, too--only Kucinich understood that this has to be treated as Medicare, and paid by taxes, regulated, and delivered as a public service and Government program--and none have any plans for unemployment, outsourcing, the decline of wages, home values, the sharp rise of prices (price-gouging, not inflation), or any other economic threat they only themselves discovered a few months ago, on the campaign trail! What connection do they have to things?

I have a real sense that this, too, as much as everything connected to Bush/Cheney/Rove/Republicans, is being manipulated right to the very end and the conclusion they want, by corporate media. Hillary Clinton, who is so corporate, would never have been my choice for President; this is all anger about the endlessly vile treatment of women by the male media, no matter what we do. Disturbing, and we are as cut off from the process as everything else during this deregulated era.

[femrap]

44. Damn....that is a great post. It's a

keeper. Thanks. I'm going to put it in my "Great Posts" file.

[blues90]

48. You get no argument from me .

Everything you have said is completely true . No one will look at it as if it does not exist as always . They will continue to make up their own truths .

No the female is forced to do what ever it takes to get ahead even if it means adding plastic here and there to do it . I can't imagine any female would think of this or invent this procedure where they have to endure this just for the fun of it all .

It's always a mans invention that is directed at the female to solve the mans problems whether it comes to birth control or anything else , fill in the blanks .

What man does instead is invent a pill to provide a livelong hard which just adds to the problem he already thinks with .

I don't like the way they follow Hillary with the camera , the last time I saw this she was forced to climb steps that seemed to be made taller than normal and she was forced to walk up sideways because she knew they were moving in for that rear view camera shot , the shot they always do but never did you see the comb over or the rear shots of the fat assess of some of the male candidates , assess that went on forever .

[Bonobo]

25. Blues90, no offense, but if you weren't kvetching about something, I'd be worried.

[blues90]

27. I know , i am always complaining and cynical about something

Trust me , i drive myself nuts and I see things in a odd way . It's not that I don't try for fear of failing .

[Bonobo]

29. Sometimes you have to say 'fuck it' and make a blind step.

It's a kind of faith, man.

BTW, I am a serious blues man myself.

[blues90]

32. Well there you go , it's the blues that did it to me .

I guess I got into the dark side of the blues guitar music . I think I've said fuck it to many times .

[avenger64]

28. Natural resources crunch, credit crunch, dollar devaluation crunch...

.... sounds from the crunching noises like we're being crunched. I don't see any way out, and I don't really hear McCain, Clinton, or Obama really pointing our way out. It's scary.

[blues90]

30. we are being crunched like bugs

i don't think they have a way out , it's the hope they want us to believe they have a way out . It would have been a lot better if they recognized it was going in that was the big mistake from the start but even then instead of admitting they were wrong and lost and turning around like anyone with a brain would have done , they instead went further into the maze >

[avenger64]

33. True. Starting with pissing our money away in Iraq...

... instead of investing in new energy infra-structure. There's a great article on the economics of that http://alternet.org/waroniraq/79988/">here. But I think you're right, it's too late to cut a u-turn now. But it would be great to hear Obama or Clinton put at least an attempt to change course at the core of their campaigns. I'm just not hearing that.

[elleng]

37. Has the MEDIA bothered to look

and ask about O and H's plans for the economic future?

No? Well, why not?

Could it be because its in Rep's interest to foment and maintain a divided Dem party, so all they talk about is the divisions they've created and encouraged?

We're screwed by rw-paid media, that's all there is to it.