Those Fighting Scots-Irish ~ RCP

[mzmolly]

What do Hillary Clinton, Mike Huckabee, John McCain and Barack Obama have in common, besides wanting to be the next commander in chief?

They are all of Scots-Irish descent, an ethnic and cultural lineage that has produced more presidents and military leaders than any other.

"Fascinating, but not surprising," says U.S. Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va. The former naval secretary and decorated Marine should know: He catalogued the migration and cultural influence of the Scots-Irish in America in his book "Born Fighting."

They have "always had the tradition of being in leadership positions, whether it is the military or in politics," Webb says. In fact, 17 of America's 43 presidents are confirmed Scots-Irish.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/those_fighting_scotsirish.html">REAL CLEAR POLITICS

Thought this might be of interest today? :)

[XemaSab]

1. Scots-Irish K&R

From THIS Mc. :D

[mzmolly]

2. From one "Mc" to another

:toast:

[Marr]

3. Isn't "Scots-Irish" just a way of saying, "I'm Irish, but not like those smelly

Catholic immigrants". I was always told that was a way for Protestants, or Irish who were here in the country prior to the immigrants of the late 1800's, to claim some sort of class superiority.

[Spider Jerusalem]

5. Scots Presbyterian immigrants to Ireland, especially Northern Ireland...

Also known as 'Ulster Scots'. They were, more or less, colonists. Who were settled on land confiscated from Catholics. Their descendants are the Protestant Unioists in Northern Ireland today, and generally speaking there's no love lost between them and Irish Catholics.

[mzmolly]

6. I hadn't heard that.

I'm have "Irish Catholic" lineage and Scots Irish

From WIKI > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots-Irish_American

[Marr]

10. Funny, because my family is Irish Protestant.

They came over in the 1880's. I think they identified a lot more with the Catholics, as they were fellow recent immigrants. The older folks in my family always sort of sneered at the term "Scots-Irish". They felt it was a way of excluding them.

[mzmolly]

13. Interesting

thanks for sharing.

[Burma Jones]

7. Not in my case

My father's family was booted out of Scotland when Cromwell took over, sent to Ireland and just kept going west........

The Scots Irish were treated badly by the English Colonists on the American Coastline and headed for the hills where we became hillbillies, not what I would call any sort of class superiority.

My Mom's side of the family were some of those snooty English colonials.....

Wikipedia has a good article on the Scots Irish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots-Irish_American

[Dr.Phool]

4. An article I read a while back, said they were also known as....

Hillbillies, due to their settling in Appalachia.

[mzmolly]

8. Yes, I'd heard that.

They were the original "Hillbillies."

[XemaSab]

9. There's a book called "Albion's Seed" by David Hackett Fischer

about the four great migrations to North America by the Puritans, royalists, Quakers, and poor Scots/Irish/English HILLBILLIES. :D

I haven't read it but it's been recommended to me by multiple people.

[mzmolly]

14. I'll keep it in mind as well

thanks.

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. And their support of William III ('King Billy')...

who led the English army that defeated the forces of the Catholic James II at the Boyne in 1690.

[SteelPenguin]

11. The Borderer Legacy Haunts America

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Jan05/Bageant0126.htm

Interesting article I bookmarked a couple of years back on the Scots Irish influence on America.

[SparkyMac]

24. Bageant tells it like it is

I want to thank you for this link to Bageant. I had heard of him and I had a friend recommend "Deer Hunting with Jesus" but I had never gotten around to reading it.

As an 8th generation Georgian I am genetically about as Scotch-Irish as they get. I have always loved my friends and family but I have always had a love/hate relationship with the culture. I wondered why until about five years ago I ran across Grady McWhiney's book "Cracker Culture". That opened my eyes and I have been trying to learn more ever since. I've read "Albions Seed" and Jim Webb's book.

Baegent says what I've been wanting to say -- but he says it ten times better -- of course. I wonder if there are anymore family loving -- culture hating crackers like me ?

[slampoet]

15. Many early Presidents and General only SAID they were Scotts-Irish. They were British but .....

...but it wasn't popular to be British during the revolution and afterwards so many including Washington himself lied and said they were ScottsIrish.

[Windex]

16. I'm Scotch-Irish

interesting find on Appalacian dialect-


The dialect spoken by Appalachian people has been given a variety of names, the majority of them somewhat less than complimentary. Educated people who look with disfavor on this particular form of speech are perfectly honest in their belief that something called The English Language, which they conceive of as a completed work - unchanging and fixed for all time - has been taken and, through ignorance, shamefully distorted by the mountain folk.

The fact is that this is completely untrue. The folk speech of Appalachia instead of being called corrupt ought to be classified as archaic. Many of the expressions heard throughout the region today can be found in the centuries-old works of some of the greatest English authors: Alfred, Chaucer, Shakespeare, and the men who contributed to the King James version of the Bible, to cite but a few.



more here:

http://www.wvculture.org/history/journal_wvh/wvh30-2.html

[mzmolly]

19. Welcome and thanks

for the info. :hi:

[Marr]

22. That happens with alot of more isolated places vs. cities.

There was a Viking colony in... Greenland, I think...? That comes to mind. You've probably heard of it, but I can't recall the name. I believe it died out in 14th or 15th centuries. Anyway, the language in use there in it's later days was far closer to the ancient version of the language than was spoken Europe. Fewer outside influences, I suppose. It's interesting.

[Windex]

26. I know

I visted Scotland in the 70's. They got such a kick out of some of the words I used, they said they were "old fashioned." One I remember is "diaper." They use "nappy" for diaper.

this from wikapedia:

The first known appearance of the word in writing is in Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew : "Another bear the ewer, the third a diaper". The word diaper originally referred to the type of cloth rather than its use ; "diaper" was the term for a pattern of small repeated geometric shapes, and later came to describe a white cotton or linen fabric with this pattern. The first cloth diapers consisted of a special type of soft tissue sheet, cut into geometric shapes. This type of pattern was called diapering and eventually gave its name to the cloth used to make diapers and then to the diaper itself. This usage stuck in the United States and Canada, but in Britain the word "nappy" took its place.

[H2O Man]

17. McCain

is a bit older, with more of an Irish history, than what is generally implied by "Scotch-Irish." It can be traced to " O' Mochaidhean " from mediaeval times, which is an Irish sept that held a leading position in Cremorne in County Monaghan. These were Irish who had, like many families from ancient times, gone back and forth from Ireland to Scotland. Those with the oldest variation of the name are known today as " (O') Muckian or Muckeen."

A closely related, though "newer" variation is Mac Eain (Eain = John). The family is often called the Mac Kean. It is most closely associated with the Scottish name, and is found in Counties Donegal and Derry. Yet the Mac Kean are a branch of the older Muckian clan.

In more recent times, Cain and Cane became the English version of the branch of the family that had been planted in Mayo. Both Cain and Cane are directly related to the earlier Kane, which is from Muckian/ Muckeen.

[mzmolly]

20. Very interesting.

Wow. Any handy info on McFadden? ;) < My Grandmothers maiden name was McFadden.

[H2O Man]

23. Sure.

Macfadden, or MacFadyen, comes from the old name Mac Phaidin (Paidin is a form of Padraic, or Patrick). In Ulster, it is an old name which has roots in both Irish and Scottish culture. If you remove the "Mac," you find it in Mayo. You probably trace your Grandmother's people back to Donegal, I suspect.

[mzmolly]

28. Thanks

H20 Man!

My Grandmother was the youngest of thirteen children and now that you mention it, I do belive Donegal has come up in trying to put the pieces back together.

[Windex]

29. funny story about looking for roots

It seems my McCormick line were so split over family members taking up with Indian women that they started changing the spelling of the last name. Thus I found McCormicks, MacCormicks and MacCormacks in one SC county were all "one" blood family just fueding and disowning each other. lol

[mzmolly]

32. LOL

Oh my, that is funny. Sheesh.

[depakid]

18. Bagent's book "Deer Hunting with Jesus" has an excellent chapter on the history of the Scots Irish

and their influence on America (particularly the South & Texas) and its politics.

Not an altogether appealing legacy....

[mzmolly]

21. I had no idea. I tend to think of JFK when I think

of the Irish in politics. :hi:

[Windex]

25. JFK was Catholic

Scotch-Irish and Catholics fought in Ireland and grudges remained in US when Kennedy (1st Catholic President) was elected.

thanks for the welcome!

[mzmolly]

27. Yep, I realize that.

I know that the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland did not get along < an understatement of course. ;)

[UTUSN]

30. Is this it?!1

[RB TexLa]

31. When posting about those people, it's pretty rude to use green

fucking orange fits their kind much better.

[skooooo]

33. yay, let's here it for us!