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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 10:49 AM Original message |
Gay Couples Say Civil Unions Aren’t Enough |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 10:51 AM Response to Original message |
1. it isn't enough, as a du'er once said ' i want to ram the M word down their throats" |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 10:58 AM Response to Reply #1 |
5. I never understood the meme about ramming our lifestyle down others throats. |
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La Lioness Priyanka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:07 AM Response to Reply #5 |
13. actually what he said was we would have more success if we didnt ram the M word down peoples throat |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:09 AM Response to Reply #13 |
16. So you're the DUer I agree with. |
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msongs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 10:52 AM Response to Original message |
2. but Obama's bible says marriage is only between man and woman so get over it? nt |
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kevinbgoode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:00 AM Response to Reply #2 |
6. And what does Hillary and McSame's bible tell us? |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:19 AM Response to Reply #6 |
20. What any of their bible's say doesn't matter nearly as much as what they say as a matter of |
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MrScorpio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 10:53 AM Response to Original message |
3. Civil Unions are a cop out |
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MaryCeleste (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:02 AM Response to Reply #3 |
8. Actually they should be the standard...for all couples |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:05 AM Response to Reply #8 |
12. Marriage extends beyond the state. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:08 AM Response to Reply #8 |
15. Religious marriage is a religiousthing. There's nothing religious about civil marriage |
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MaryCeleste (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:19 AM Response to Reply #15 |
19. My argument is to make the only partnering civil so the religious can do their own thing |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:20 AM Response to Reply #19 |
22. It's no different than what we have now, for all practical purposes. |
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electron_blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 12:03 PM Response to Reply #22 |
58. but...even ifyou have no religious ceremony, and are atheists, being married |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 12:31 PM Response to Reply #58 |
60. I don't think state marriage has anything to do with religion at all. |
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electron_blue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 12:52 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. Well they do because you're not allowed to get married if you're of the same sex and |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 01:02 PM Response to Reply #61 |
63. But the state marriage itself is not religious. Even if you change the name it |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:25 AM Response to Reply #15 |
26. the word marriage has connotations. To willfully pretend it doesn't makes it apparent you DO care |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:27 AM Response to Reply #26 |
31. Your psychic powers, as usual, fail you. |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:30 AM Response to Reply #31 |
33. you just proved, in the previous post you ARE playing semantics while pretending you're not. |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:32 AM Response to Reply #33 |
36. Where are the grassroots organizations |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:36 AM Response to Reply #33 |
41. Answers to ridiculous questions: |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 12:03 PM Response to Reply #41 |
57. Exactly. |
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Toasterlad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 04:44 PM Response to Reply #33 |
77. Did You Even READ the OP? |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:27 AM Response to Reply #26 |
32. "Revenge"? n/t |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:32 AM Response to Reply #32 |
35. Want to explain any other motive for insisting on using the word "marriage"? When "civil" |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:37 AM Response to Reply #35 |
42. Because your cockeyed scheme is as unrealistic as your creationism. |
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Chovexani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 09:04 AM Response to Reply #32 |
93. Looks like I have them on ignore for good reason. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:35 AM Response to Reply #26 |
40. How do you know the word "marriage" has religious meaning to most Americans? |
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Gormy Cuss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 03:18 PM Response to Reply #26 |
74. Getting married at city hall is marriage. |
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NMMNG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 05:53 PM Response to Reply #26 |
82. Right |
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TommyO (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:27 AM Response to Reply #8 |
30. Civil marriage has nothing to do with religion. |
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Book Lover (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:59 AM Response to Reply #8 |
55. I have never been convinced by this argument |
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MaryCeleste (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 09:15 AM Response to Reply #55 |
95. Consider this... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 09:17 AM Response to Reply #95 |
96. You may be willing to give up with word marriage, but there is no reason to think that's |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:26 AM Response to Reply #3 |
27. Civil Unions for EVERYONE is the sane solution. |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:31 AM Response to Reply #27 |
34. Why now? |
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Toasterlad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 04:46 PM Response to Reply #27 |
78. Fine With Me. You Go First. |
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kevinbgoode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 10:58 AM Response to Original message |
4. I don't think the state should be telling ANYONE |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:01 AM Response to Reply #4 |
7. What's interesting about the "scrap all marriage laws" argument |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:07 AM Response to Reply #4 |
14. Marriage is your way of telling the state - not the state telling you. |
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Book Lover (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 12:01 PM Response to Reply #14 |
56. Excellent point |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 01:14 PM Response to Reply #56 |
64. Thank you! I spent thousansd on contracts and wills with my partner to establish |
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aquart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:03 AM Response to Original message |
9. They aren't. |
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cliffordu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:04 AM Response to Original message |
10. Gay people should be REQUIRED to get married..... |
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stray cat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:04 AM Response to Original message |
11. Is it preferential to vote against civil unions for the time being? |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:25 AM Response to Reply #11 |
25. IMO, no, that is not preferential. |
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slampoet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:17 AM Response to Original message |
17. In the Eyes of the law every marriage should be called a Civil Union. If you want a "Marrige" that's |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:18 AM Response to Reply #17 |
18. The state marriage is exactly that: a civil union. It doesn't include any |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:22 AM Response to Reply #18 |
24. sorry, the word marriage has cultural connotations. Other countries went "civil unions for all" |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:26 AM Response to Reply #24 |
28. Pure semantics. If you think calling it civil unions will make anti gay bigots not care, |
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hulklogan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 05:28 PM Response to Reply #28 |
80. Exactly. Which is why the recent Colorado initiative for civil unions |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:26 AM Response to Reply #24 |
29. We aren't other countries. |
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gollygee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:51 AM Response to Reply #24 |
49. It has cultural connotations for me, and I'm not religious |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 01:01 PM Response to Reply #24 |
62. And then the states will define relationships using the word "MARRIAGE," |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 01:23 PM Response to Reply #62 |
65. I think you're on to something that I may not have thought about. |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 02:28 PM Response to Reply #65 |
66. Of course. They do that already. |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 02:45 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. Congratulations. |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 02:56 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. Shoot, that argument was made in the 19th century. |
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KitSileya (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 02:03 AM Response to Reply #24 |
88. Norway did that. |
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slampoet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:34 AM Response to Reply #18 |
37. IT may seem that way but these people will be arguing inside their congregations. |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:35 AM Response to Reply #37 |
39. I'm so glad we still don't allow different races and religions to marry. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:39 AM Response to Reply #37 |
43. And what do you think they'll be saying instead? "Because of gays they |
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slampoet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:51 AM Response to Reply #43 |
50. Why? Legal recognition is currently not a requirement for a church wedding and vice versa. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:55 AM Response to Reply #50 |
53. Because anti gay bigots will say anything to deny our legal recognition. |
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slampoet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 04:10 PM Response to Reply #53 |
75. Say anything sure. But we aren't tryin to win over bigots. We are just trying to win over thinkers. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 05:40 PM Response to Reply #75 |
81. If they are thinking people, they can be taught that civil marriage is not |
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goddess40 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:20 AM Response to Reply #17 |
21. I agree! |
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mikelewis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:21 AM Response to Reply #17 |
23. 100% agree |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:46 AM Response to Reply #17 |
46. No church is now or ever would be |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:48 AM Response to Reply #46 |
48. It's the right wing meme |
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neocon_hater (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:35 AM Response to Original message |
38. it would have been easier |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:45 AM Response to Reply #38 |
45. You got it. |
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neocon_hater (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 02:54 PM Response to Reply #45 |
68. Glad to be here. |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:44 AM Response to Original message |
44. I think the only government institution to unite a couple of WHATEVER |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:46 AM Response to Reply #44 |
47. So atheists currently can't get married in this country? |
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slampoet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:53 AM Response to Reply #47 |
51. Who performs athiest weddings currently? |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:55 AM Response to Reply #51 |
52. I'd guess city hall. |
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PVnRT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:55 AM Response to Reply #51 |
54. Justice of the peace, wedding chapels, UU ministers |
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slampoet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 12:08 PM Response to Reply #54 |
59. And sometimes Elvis. |
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gatorboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 08:55 AM Response to Reply #54 |
92. My wife to name another. :) |
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neocon_hater (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 02:59 PM Response to Reply #51 |
71. actually... |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 03:02 PM Response to Reply #71 |
73. Welcome to DU. I was married in a Reno wedding "chapel". |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 03:00 PM Response to Reply #47 |
72. If we reframe marriage as a religious act, would they want to? |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 01:40 PM Response to Reply #47 |
99. Atheists can get married any day of the week at a Unitarian Church, lol, |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 02:58 PM Response to Reply #44 |
70. That's what I think, too. Sidestep the hateful wingnuts. |
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Prophet 451 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 04:31 PM Response to Original message |
76. Here, they're treated as marriage |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 09:57 PM Response to Reply #76 |
84. And that's the difference. |
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Prophet 451 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 08:13 AM Response to Reply #84 |
90. Which is strange to me |
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HuffleClaw (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 04:59 PM Response to Original message |
79. damn straight (pun intended) it isn't enough |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 06:56 PM Response to Original message |
83. Civil Unions Aren’t Enough... |
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selador (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:48 PM Response to Original message |
85. i agree |
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Firespirit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 12:20 AM Response to Original message |
86. To everyone who says "make EVERYTHING a civil union": |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 08:19 AM Response to Reply #86 |
91. Well said. I don't know where people get these ideas - but it seems they always |
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crimsonblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 12:26 AM Response to Original message |
87. I'll admit, I personally think marriage is between a guy and a girl BUT |
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JackBeck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 12:46 PM Response to Reply #87 |
98. You're brave. |
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Skittles (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 02:05 AM Response to Original message |
89. they aren't |
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Solly Mack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 09:11 AM Response to Original message |
94. Not equal...not enough |
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Ohio Joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 09:42 AM Response to Original message |
97. Nothing less then full equal rights |
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guitar man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 02:05 PM Response to Original message |
100. no, it's not enough |
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