Just watched the movie "Rendition" ...Did the Clinton Administration really start it?

[Jensen]

There is a line in the movie where it claims that it was started under President Clinton and escalated after 9/11....How can this be true? Is this another "whitewash" of history? Trying to blame President Clinton for the acts of the B*sh misadministration? Any help on this? Thanks

[dawgman]

1. After OK City bombing

our rights began to be eroded by Billy boy. Don't kid yourself, he ain't a saint. From nafta to the post bombing "security measures" Bill wasn't that much better. He just didn't spend us into bankruptcy.

[Jensen]

4. But the OK bombing was done by one of "Our Own" why would we

need to send anyone out to other countries to be tortured?

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. I think it was more the attempted bombing of the WTC in 1993

Remember, the fertilizer bombs parked in a rented truck in a lot under one of the Towers? See the Wikipedia article World Trade Center Bombing.

Bill Clinton was roundly criticized by Republicans and the press for not taking "firm, decisive action" against potential terrorist threats. For several weeks after Murrah Building went up in a big explosion in 1995, it was considered to have been the work of foreign terrorists and, again, Clinton was villified for "allowing" this to happen. That was when PDD 39 was signed, declaring a policy of "whatever it takes" against terrorism.

[techtrainer]

19. Attempted Bombing?

I would say it was a real bombing - with six people killed and 1,042 injured!

[dawgman]

22. Maybe attempted

as in it didn't have the catastrophic effects for which they had hoped.

[TechBear_Seattle]

23. I was thinking of an earlier WTC bombing attempt, sorry.

It had been attempted once before; that is what I had in mind. Apologies. :blush:

[madrchsod]

13. "silence is defeat"

back home....dam what a video.

[dawgman]

14. the scholars are amazing.

You should check out the video for "Blink"

[bryant69]

2. I don't know exactly what it is referring to

But Rendition has probably been going on a long time. I haven't seen the movie, but does it refer to extradidating terrorists to regimes that torture in order to extract information we aren't willing to get ourselves?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[goddess40]

3. extraditing "suspected" terrorists

or anyone that has been sold to the US or that we decide we just want to torture.
And it seems we are more than willing to do it ourselves now.

[Jensen]

6. Regardless how long it has been going on, it really hurt me to see what has been done in "Our Name"!

I was truly surprised that it claimed that the Clinton Administration started it! Trying to find some info on this, any links???? The movie is good but disturbing as a American that believed that we were better!

[Wizard777]

17. When they called it "Transportation" it was one of our complaints against King George

in the Declaration Of Independence

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. Yup. Read this

From the Human Rights Watch: http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/eca/canada/arar/2.htm

Link to PDD 39: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/pdd39.htm

[Jensen]

7. Thanks for the links.

[bluescribbler]

31. I think this quote is key

When terrorists wanted for violation of U.S. law are at large overseas, their return for prosecution shall be a matter of the highest priority. … If we do not receive adequate cooperation from a state that harbors a terrorist whose extradition we are seeking, we shall take appropriate measures to induce cooperation. Return of suspects by force may be effected without the cooperation of the host government, consistent with the procedures outlined in NSD-77, which shall remain in effect.

The author goes on to say,

Before September 2001, the available information regarding extraordinary renditions strongly suggests a focus on delivering criminal suspects to prosecution, particularly in the United States.

It would thus appear that this policy was aimed mostly at delivering suspects to the U.S. for trial. * has perverted it by using it to send people to states which have less concern about civil and human rights than the United States claims to have.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

8. Please edit your title... No one "really started it"

"start" would be the word you are looking for

[Jensen]

9. Thanks!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

10. !

:donut: :thumbsup:

[mrcheerful]

12. Actually the loss of rights has been an on going process since the turn of 1900

it started with the war on minorities drug use, blacks and chinese were outlawed from using cocaine and opium, but white middle class people were using morphine openly, it was even given to babies for teething pains. Then in the 1920's and 30's, guns were being restricted. at one time you could buy any type of weapon, including military weapons, right out of your sears catalog. Then along came 1950 and McCarthyism, which gave us such insightful things like putting god on our money and requiring every kid to pledge to one nation under god, after all commies couldn't use the money or say the pledge because they were godless. Then the 1960's gave us Tricky Dick and his tough on crime BS. When americans give up rights for the illusion of being safe they get the type of oppressive government they deserve.

[asdjrocky]

18. Don't forget about-

COINTELPRO. Who gave us that? And what administrations used the information, and benefited from that information? Ike, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon. Pretty wide open group if you ask me. Liberal icons, and the dreaded, hated right wing.

If you can't tell the difference, is there really a difference?

[dawgman]

27. I had a logic prof in college

who loved to say, "A difference that makes no difference is not a difference."

[Zywiec]

15. Did you know about the million + Iraqis killed during the Clinton administration? n/t

[Jensen]

33. No, I did not! This is so sick!

What have we become as a country???

[Horse with no Name]

37. It's not what we have become

It's what we have always been. It was just easier to hide in those days.

[tuckessee]

16. Yep, and a future Clinton Administration would continue it.

But then again, so would an Obama or McCain Adminsitration.

[SOS]

20. Here's another Clinton gem...

Google "The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996" for a gruesome shock.
The attack on habeas corpus didn't start with Dubya.

It is beyond belief that a Democrat signed this.

[The Straight Story]

21. And back in the day it was dems scaring us about terrorist militia members

And I knew a lot of people in the ohio militia at the time (worked for a company that sold reloading dies and military surplus).

They had no plans on attacking or killing anyone, just holing up and being trained when it went to hell.

But, like islamic folks now are, they were all painted with the same brush.

Funny in a way, the rw was telling us we were wrong and not all militia people were like McVeigh, new laws were passed that restricted freedoms (or infringed on them) - and now we are doing it all again....

[Individualist]

29. I believe it

The Clintons are DLC democrats.

[Echo In Light]

39. Fascism makes for strange bedfellows, eh?

[magellan]

24. Rude awakening

It's not about party. This country is screwed mostly because people refuse to believe their party is capable of the corruption/lies/criminality exhibited by the other party, and will latch onto any rationale to support their misguided faith.

[dawgman]

25. it is a corporate world out there

All (maybe DK and a VERY few others are the exception) of those in the halls of power owe something (like their place in the halls of power) to the corporations who paid for them to get there.

[Jensen]

26. Trying to keep up with all this info....Who in heaven name can we trust???

:scared:

[mrcheerful]

28. None most of the time and yourself 1/2 the time

remember every time you say or think "there ought to be a law" you fall into the trap of someone being able to use that law against you. Remember we gave up our rights to carry when we enacted a police force to protect us against the evil people out there. Things have gone down hill since that time. I mean think about how laws were made that should have been a persons common sense, Railroad laws come to mind as a good example of how people had to be protected from their actions. I'm sure you can think of a lot of common sense things that became laws because some people lack whatever it is that stops others from doing those things.

[Jensen]

30. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad....

Just recently I said to my daughter that I was waiting for the day that I would go to a hardware store to buy 10 yards of rope and I would have to sign a affidavit stating I would no hand myself with the rope!
The questions is how do we fix it or can it be fix??? Will America ever wake up??? Is it too late???

[Jensen]

32. Yes, I'm beginning to get it......Sad !

The last 4 years at DU, I've have learn much....but today I feel really stupid for my "misguided faith"!

[magellan]

34. Don't feel stupid

We've all been there. The best thing you can do with this information is learn from it, and help others to learn.

We aren't meant to trust our government. Our founding fathers didn't want us to, and they designed the Constitution with safeguards to help protect us from the corrupt and power-hungry. But it also requires our vigilance to work properly...and we, the people, went to sleep.

Time to wake up. Time to realize the best way to treat any politician is with a healthy dose of skepticism and eternal vigilance. There are a few I admire. There are NONE I'd trust with my life!

[Jensen]

35. I agree with your statement and I thank you, will try to past the info forward.

The problem still remains that it appears that we have fewer and fewer to admire.

[magellan]

36. Just my opinion on this

...but over the last four years I've come around to believing we get what we vote for. If we hold our noses when we cast our ballot, we shouldn't be surprised when things get stinky later on. We MUST start holding our candidates to higher standards and teach our children that political races aren't like voting for their favorite Idol. There's a lot more at stake than who has charm and who you'd like to have a beer with.

Unfortunately the process has sunk so low that we have to start over, working from the local to the national levels to get new blood into the mix. It's going to take time, decades probably. But it's got to begin, and now is as good a time as any.

[mrcheerful]

38. But hasn't voting been about putting in the most popular and attractive candidate

into office? If you ever noticed how much do people talk about a candidates charisma? Just a fancy word for a person who has a likable personality, but what makes that person better at governing? But name me a time in america's history where it wasn't about the candidates personality.

[magellan]

40. That's why I advocate teaching our children the difference

...between "charm" and sound moral judgement and integrity. How do we think they FAIL to learn this important lesson? Because our society bombards them with cues and signals that tell them being popular and beautiful counts more than being a good person who cares about and considers those around them. Well, we're just as capable of teaching them the opposite.

You'd think we'd have learned by now that beautiful speeches and a friendly personality are not reliable measures of a person's integrity or intent. For every charismatic leader who did good you could probably come up with at least two others who turned out to be murderous psychopaths. Or at least, not as advertised. (I'm thinking here of my two votes for Clinton.)

Education won't stop people falling blindly in love with attractive, sparkling personalities but it can certainly blunt the effect. Parents need to start stepping up to the plate. Turn off the pap on tv that fills kids' heads with the notion that they aren't good enough unless they have tons of friends they'd just as soon step on for their own gain as invite over to play.

Learning and teaching critical thinking is the only way to mitigate the mob rule mindset that brings us to horrific points in history like this.