54 Words, 7 commas, and a period. The argument against warrantless spying in a nutshell

[ThomWV]

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Nowhere in the Amendment does it bow to the will of the President nor does it exempt from the requirement for a warrant based on letters issued by the FBI. In short, you have the right not to be spied upon unless a warrant is secured and the Government has no right at all to spy on you without one. It is not a difficult argument to comprehend.

[Cant trust em]

1. Weasel your way out of that one, strict constructionists!

I would love for someone to argue with me that e-mails and phone calls don't consists of "effects".

[emdee]

2. Kick nt

nt

[libnnc]

3. It ain't rocket science. n/t

[lildreamer316]

4. The founding fathers were brilliant.

Just mind-blowingly brilliant.

[JackRiddler]

5. The "founding fathers" were not responsible for the Bill of Rights.

The Federalist framers of the 1787 Constitution (let's use accurate terms here), some 67 or so slaveholders and merchants who constituted most of the richest people in the country, agreed on a system of government they felt would best express their interests as a class and protect them against what they saw as the leveling, democratic demands of the unruly, unwashed mob.

That mob was instrumental in states' rejecting the Constitution, unless it included a Bill of Rights, which the framers explicitly left out.

It was thus the FOUNDING PEOPLE who forced the Bill of Rights including the Fourth Amendment into the Constitution, against the original plans of the "founding fathers" you praise.

That Constitution still counted slaves and Indians as 3/5 of a person for census purposes (and as no person at all otherwise), allowed states to restrict the franchise to property holders, and had senators elected by state legislatures. Every progressive change in this country has come about as a result of the people fighting to force the powerful to acknowledge the rights and principles to which the powerful only originally gave lip-service. The "founding fathers" and their idea of a Republic was a big improvement on divine-right monarchy, but don't delude yourself into thinking they were interested in us, or in anything other than the power of their class, the accumulation of wealth in their hands, and the expansion of empire.

It took a big fight to free slaves, extend the franchise to women, and gain a modicum of rights and privileges for workers. It will take a big fight to end U.S. imperialism in the world.

Sadly the American people seem to know little of their own history.

[lildreamer316]

7. Whoopsie.

Not what I was taught, my bad. Thanks...still, some pretty smart ppl.

[JackRiddler]

15. Well, go and find it out...

It's not a state secret that the Bill of Rights was forced on the Constitution as presented by the Federalist framers thanks to protests from the states, most of all from the anti-Federalists. You needn't feel bad if you didn't know it until now. Sorry, but it is important to understand.

[hootinholler]

6. Not so much that they were brilliant, but, they had just lived through this.

Their property was subject to random searches by soldiers looking for unspecified contraband, among other outrages.

=Hoot

[Winterblues]

8. Don't you know ~ 9-11 CHANGED EVERYTHING

:shrug: Why do you keep throwing "that Goddamned piece of paper" in their face?

[ThomWV]

10. Old habits die hard.

[spanone]

9. our president and his vice do not care one bit about our constitution

from day one they have done everything possible to undermine it.

[ThomWV]

11. It makes one wonder how they remain in office, doesn't it?

Or does it?

[librechik]

12. Oh, the Habeas Corpus thingie? That is SOOO Eleventh century

Bushie erased that, and Harry hasn't been able to put it back in yet. Hasn't even tried, really.

[Festivito]

13. Don't let your broker use a phone for trading your stocks.

Nor should you use a phone to announce, recommend, nor should the people managing your retirement account use a phone, email, nor fax.

Because nothing stops the BFEE from making money off stock moves. NOTHING.

Remember when some Republican Congress-critter had day trading computers in his Congressional office?

[baldguy]

14. The neocons would like you to think the people they call terrorists aren't people.

At least, not under the Constitution.

[Canuckistanian]

18. They did the same thing with blacks, Indians, Hispanics, Italians...

Communists, Japanese-Americans, German-Americans, etc....

Face it, the "neocons" are the same xenophobic characters who have been running things since... well, since America began.

And they've been using the same tactics - fear, misinformation and demonization.

In 10 years, there'll be ANOTHER hated racial group.

My prediction? Asians. More specifically, the Chinese.

[margotb822]

16. Too bad * thinks the Constitution is only a "GD piece of paper"

unless it suits him and his cronies, of course!

[indepat]

19. Borrowing from "Legal Weapon II," the Constitution done been revoked by executive,

legislative, and judicial fiat.

[Senator]

17. The Constitution Is A Muscle -- Use It Or Lose It

Failure to exercise the Impeachment Clause causes the rest to atrophy.

The decrepit DC Dems need a course in Principles Pilates (and a good Cranial-Rectoscopist).

Impeachment is our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

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