Has Anyone Else Received the American Community Survey?

[LibDemAlways]

The US Census Bureau sent me a 28 page questionnaire today full of personal invasive questions regarding my health, marital status, income, amount of mortgage payment, even how much I think my house would sell for.

It's my understanding that I am required by law to fill this thing out and return it. Anyone simply get it and ignore it? What happened?

Seems to me it's total bullshit, but there are penalties for non-compliance.

Advice?

[TreasonousBastard]

1. Yes. Fill it out and stop whining. The ACS is one of...

up to a dozen surveys the Census Bureau conducts at any one time and is essentially the questions from the long form of Census 2000.

I know of no one who has actually been prosecuted or punished for not filling it out, but if you don't you will get phone calls and visits.

The data provided is Title 13 data, and is completely protected, sometimes more than IRS data. Any Census employee divulging, selling, or gossiping about any interviews can be prosecuted with several years in jail and a $250,000 fine. The few times it's happened, they just get fired, though. Oh, and it's already been to the Supreme Court where neither the IRS nor FBI can see the data.

Now, as to what is so "invasive" about these questions... Nothing in there is any worse than what you have to tell a car salesman or apartment manager if you want a lease. Hatred of Bush's government is so pervasive that now we object to a basic obligation of citizenship because it could be used for nefarious purposes? Time was when only Montana Militia and Texas Republic types objected to this sort of thing and considered sworn Federal employees to be lower on the food chain than used car salesmen.

The data collected is stripped of all personal identification and processed into reports showing abstracts of the present population. Reports can be seen at www.cenus.gov/acs these reports atre used by academics, local planners, your Congresscritters, and others to good effect.

If you still insist it's total bullshit, call your Congresscritters and explain to them why the law they passed authorizing this survety is bullshit.

[LibDemAlways]

2. From the survey:

Because of a physical, mental, or emotional condition, does this person have serious difficulty concentrating , remembering, or making decisions?

Does this person have difficulty dressing or bathing?

Has this person given birth to any children in the past 12 months?

How many times has this person been married?

How well does this person speak English?

Where did this person live a year ago?

Last month, what was the cost of electricity for this house?

What is the annual payment for fire, hazard, and flood insurance on THIS property?

About how much do you think this house and lot would sell for if it were for sale?

Tell me again how this is stuff I'd have to tell a car salesman.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. All of this stuff is essential, or at least very handy,...

in understandng the population and how to govern the country. Much of it exists elsewhere, but cannot readily be found except by direct interview. I could explain some of the statistical basis of the questions and selection process, but I suspect you're simply not interested. You asked for "advice" and you got some. Alas, you don't agree with it.

Did you bother to go to the website, or, in your infinite wisdom, do you already know everything you need to know just from getting the form in the mail?

[LibDemAlways]

8. I had a lengthy phone conversation this afternoon with

a bureaucrat at the Census Bureau. I asked her how many phone calls from irate people she fields in an hour because of this questionnaire. She admitted mine was the fourth call in a ten minute period. I can't imagine a crappier job.

In asking for advice I was looking for people who had received the thing and was interested in knowing how they handled it.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Since they send out 250,000 of these a month...

a lot of people do call asking about this. Most are simply curious and just go on and do the survey. And did you do anything to make her job any easier, or just tell her all about the Constitution and how you've decided, all by your little bitty old self, that this was bullshit? My job at Census ocassionally means talking to people like you, and let me tell you just how I can't wait to greet the morning waiting for it. Fortunately, most people are pretty decent about it and make up for the assholes.

The "advice" you were looking for was someone to tell you it was OK to ignore the survey. I already told you nothing would happen, except you'll be bothered for two months. The first month a call center tries to get in touch with you. The next month, a field rep comes knocking on your door. If you can avoid them, or tell them to fuck off, you're home free and you can give yourself three Attaboys for a job well done.

I still can't understand your objection to this survey. You are in a tiny minority that has decided that it is some sort of intrusion and interferes with your God-given right to be obnoxious.

[LibDemAlways]

16. I don't believe for a second that I'm in a "tiny minority."

It's pretty obvious that the census bureau only sends out 250,000 of these at a time to avoid the huge uproar that would happen if everyone received one at once. I had never even heard of this until today, and I would be willing to bet that most people who've never received one haven't either.

I told the census dept. bureaucrat that I had no intention of sharing the details of my life with the feds, and she finally admitted I didn't need to provide my name and could answer "R" for refuse on the form, or I could wait for a phone call and refuse to answer the questions that way. I thanked her for the info and told her I thought it was dishonest for the census bureau not to tell me those particulars up front.

Any government survey that involves intrusive personal questions and coercion is suspect from the get-go.

[TreasonousBastard]

17. You can believe anything you want, but you're still...

wrong. I know that because I work there and deal with this all time and you don't.

But, congrats. You have single handedly brought the Census to its knees.

[LibDemAlways]

23. It's pretty obvious you work there. I think you need to get

out more and experience the real world where people don't like the government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong.

Also, you certainly score no points with the name calling.

I don't think you're a treasonous bastard at all - just an ill-mannered one. Off to ignore with you.

[high density]

3. They sent me a letter telling me I'd be getting one months ago

but it never came. My parents got one a few years ago and I filled it out for them. They wanted to just trash it.

[LibDemAlways]

4. Did you have any issues with any of the questions?

A lot of it is nobody's business, least of all the census bureau.

[high density]

5. Yeah I thought the questions were crazy

But how else are they going to get these statistics if they don't survey people, and the participants respond with honesty? I didn't think there was anything nefarious about it.

[LibDemAlways]

6. Do they need to know whether I bathe myself?

That is just beyond the pale.

Insanity.

[tpsbmam]

34. Things like the bathing question....

are ADL questions -- activities of daily living. It's a way of measuring how many people there are who need help with basic tasks of everyday life like bathing, dressing, cooking, etc etc. It may seem nuts, but it's not.

Edited to add the word I left out.

[BeHereNow]

9. Oh come on! They NEED to know this stuff so they can

predict the best market range for selling your property to a nice
Chinese factory owner.
If you're not dead by then, perhaps you will
be able to work for him.

And no, I'm not kidding.
Welcome to third world America.

BHN

[LibDemAlways]

10. Have you received one of these questionnaires?

It's unbelievable that hundreds of thousands of them go out and there's no uproar about it. Are the American people such compliant sheep that they'll let the government pry into every facet of their lives without protest?

The woman I spoke with at the census bureau today told me to be prepared to receive one of these interrogations every 5 years.

Absolutely insane.

[BeHereNow]

11. I know people who have gotten them.

If I ever do, I will blame the dog for eating it.
Or the cat for puking on it.
Or my neighbor, you know, the one who steals my mail...

To me, it is just one more tick on the clock that says,
"PAST time to leave this country."

BHN

[TreasonousBastard]

13. And yet another one confusing governance with...

spying. Honestly, with these attitudes I don't know how some of you get anything done. Can't be the only thing that sets you off.

The two of you can have fun chewing on tinfoil at your Paranoia Party.

[BeHereNow]

14. YUM!!! I love to eat my tinfoil hat every night-

Gives me something to look forward to in the morning-
crafting a new one, that is.

BHN

[BeHereNow]

15. Very handy in governing the country, eh? Is that what you said earlier up thread?

Gee, given the corruption in the governing of my country-
I'm not so sure that plan is working very well...
But you say I should go ahead and comply?
No thanks!

BHN

[Name removed]

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[Gormy Cuss]

19. The ACS is intended to fill the knowledge gap between decennial censuses.

Like all Census surveys, it's mandatory. That said, not everyone complies, but most do after census uses telephone and in person contacts.

Far from being total bullshit, it's a step up from the old method of relying only on data that may be as much as ten years out of date. Population, labor market, and property characteristics can change dramatically in that time and allocating money for housing or education or highway funding. Each question has a specific purpose, as weird and invasive as some may seem.

Census is by far the most stringent about confidentiality than most people understand. They not only have very strict guidelines for employees, they have strict regulations on suppression of data if there's even a remote chance that an individual can be identified. For example, if few than 5 people in your census tract responded in a certain way, census will not release the data at the tract level--instead it may be aggregated to the community level.

In case this wasn't included in the mailing, here's a FAQS sheet/
http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/ACSQandA.pdf

[TreasonousBastard]

21. Didn't read through the thread, did ya? Seems some...

people have their minds made up and will not be confused by facts.

BTW, we get well over 90% compliance. The rest are not just refusals, but people who can't be contacted for one reason or another.

[Gormy Cuss]

22. I read it and understand the tinfoil concerns.

Since most people only experience the short form every ten years, any long form version can and does evoke such a reaction in a few people. I'm a privacy freak and I would comply without hesitation to an ACS survey because I understand how the data are used.

[LibDemAlways]

24. Thank you for keeping the discussion civil and on point.

Although the Census Bureau swears it doesn't divulge the info, it seems to me there is nothing stopping them from sharing answers with other government agencies who could use it for all manner of nefarious purposes.

Sounds like a giant fishing expedition.

There are a number of websites where people are sharing their census bureau horror stories over this. It just screams Big Brother.

[Gormy Cuss]

25. The minute the Census starts sharing individually identifiable data, it's done.

If you have the time to read the links on ACS there are question by question justifications for the data collection. It is about providing solid, statistically reliable data in an aggregate form to the government agencies.

Do you file taxes? The IRS knows an awful lot about you. What keeps them from sharing answers with other agencies, other than similar confidentiality requirements?

I've worked with Federal government agencies for my entire career and there are certain sets of individually identifiable data that can't be shared between agencies even when it's for a good reason because the laws are that strict. There's a whole other level of data that can be shared among Federal employees who are under the same confidentiality rules but can not be released to third parties including contractors working for those agencies.

Could someone some day access and use these data for nefarious purposes? Sure, because anything is possible, no matter how remotely. Is it likely? No. You are far more likely to have your privacy violated by nongovernmental entities like credit card companies and retail stores. For example, if you use a supermarket discount card, that chain has microlevel data on your food and related purchases. At least one chain has started to offer differing health care premiums to its own employees based on the grocery purchases they make. That chain and others would love to sell the same data to your employer for the same reason.

[bbgrunt]

26. I guess they have to supplement all the info

from Choicepoint(?), rfid chips, telecom spying, medical record sharing and surveillance cameras--or they can't possibly formulate sensible policies. :sarcasm:

While I understand the defensiveness of those who believe in the purity and protection of this data for noble purposes, they fail to realize that the world is already awash in all kinds of intrusive information collected without our consent and which has the ultimate purpose of being used against us.

....and while I appreciate the "strict" guidelines that have been enforced in the past, there is absolutely no reason to believe that this regime can't get around that barrier very easily.

[Gormy Cuss]

28. Choicepoint is all about violating privacy right now, as are surveillance cameras.

In contrast to Census data collection, Choicepoint and related privately created databases are all about profiling you as an individual and they do it because there is no law preventing them from doing so and precious little to stop them because we have very weak privacy laws in this country. I for one worry more about Choicepoint than the Census Bureau in this regard based on my experience dealing with both types of data. Private data mining organizations will sell anything to anyone at anytime unless there is a specific law forbidding the practice. I'd love to see the Choicepoints of the world held to the standards of Census and other governmental data collection agencies. That would be a quantum leap forward.

[bbgrunt]

32. I agree that the privacy and legitimacy of the

census information is vastly superior to the data from places like choicepoint. However, that still begs the question of long term guarantees that it remain so. We see how easily this administration has perverted the justice department for political purposes. We see the BLS accommodating political pressures in excluding energy and food prices in calculating the CPI. We see all scientific reports being censored by political hacks.

I understand that people collecting data for census purposes have always had to deal with a certain amount of troglodytes who can't understande the safeguards that have been in place for this information, but really, in the present climate of secrecy and control by the government, I'm beginning to think they have a valid point.

[Iggo]

27. I got one back in the late '80's.

I didn't fill it out. Months later, they sent a couple of census-takers to "help" me fill it out. When they finally stopped speaking Spanish (I have a Spanish surname, so of course I must prefer being spoken to in Spanish) I made them fill it out for me. And I was a complete dick about it. To be compelled by a government entity to give up all that personal information just didn't sit well with me.

To be clear, I don't have any problem with the Spanish language. Beautiful language, and I speak it (poorly) whenever I feel like it and whenever I need to. I'm not one of those English-only idiots. I rightly believe that people need to speak whatever language or languages they need to to get by. It's only logical. It's just that I've had a lifetime of people trying to speak to me in my "native language" without ever asking what my native language is. They're usually people trying to sell me something. But in this case it was government types, and I got kinda pissed.

Anyway, yeah. I got one. Didn't fill it out. Census-takers showed up at my door and made sure it got filled out.

[TreasonousBastard]

29. A final thought or two about this...

A few months ago this came up and then, like now, most of the comments were negative. The gummint's got no business... yada, yada, yada... Of course, then as now, no one complaining could be bothered to find out anything about the ACS.

Although I'm in a rotten mood and don't feel much like suffering fools, I have to seriously ask why there is this negative attitude toward this sort of survey. An allegedly progressive board would naturally look toward government solutions for many problems, and solutions require information.

The Federal government is constantly surveying the country to gain proper data. There are BLS surveys for labor issues, several national crime surveys, business surveys... The Census Dept. alone conducts up to a dozen different surveys, some of them for other agencies. We're not talking about wiretapping or reading your mail, we're talking about openly attempting to get proper raw data for planning and managing the country. Snotty comments about Bush incompetance are cute, but just because this administration is inept and corrupt doesn't mean the rest of us throw out the basics of civic duty.

Being personally insulted by being associated with the Gestapo doesn't help my already miserable mood, but I Would like to know why there is such hatred.

[MiniMe]

30. Because in the last 7 years, I don't trust anything the government sends me

wanting personal information. For God's sake, they want to sell your tax return info now. I think this has more to do with Bush & Co than the government.

[TreasonousBastard]

31. That tax return scare was bogus...

the change was to regulate third party preparers who wren't previously regulated-- your accountant cannot divulge any info about your return, but your accountant files through a tax service which, before the change, could do anything it wanted with the returns it handled. Now it can't. Someone started chain emails about it meaning that everyone could sell your info when it really strengthened protections against selling info.

Anyway, yeah, these clowns have given government a bad name. But, they haven't destroyed it yet, and as far as the Census survey goes, the questions are almost exactly the same as the ones on the 2000 long form, and they haven't loosened Census safeguards that have been around for a lot longer than they have anmd will be around long after they're gone.

I am dismayed by what they've done, but even more dismayed that they have eroded trust in government just when that trust is most needed. This crap started with Reagan and is being accelerated.

[earth mom]

33. Why? Because it is NONE of their fucking business that's why

Would you give all your personal information to your next door neighbor or some stranger you met at the grocery store? Probably not!

This is NO different.

It is a total invasion of privacy and if I could I would tear it up into little bits and mail it back to them!!! :grr:

[Iggo]

35. Please suffer this fool for just a moment more..

I'm pissed because I was compelled to do it, not invited to do it. If you don't get that, I'm sorry. I can't explain it any plainer than that.