School Fundraisers and why I hate them

[QueenOfCalifornia]

My 2 children are in 2nd and 3rd grade. They go to a public school in S. CA - They have ONE HOUR of science a WEEK. ONE. If it were not for me and my interest in science they would not be exposed to evolution as FACT, NOT THEORY or any other science. They spend a good 30 minutes every Monday saying the pledge of allegiance and something called The Peacebuilder Pledge while the whole school is crammed into the auditorium- Don't even get me started on what I think and feel about pledges of ANY kind.

But the frosting on the cake is the practice of School Fundraisers... My kids are expected to sell absolute crap to our family, neighbors and friends to raise a percentage for their PUBLIC SCHOOL. My kids are taken into the school auditorium, where they spend at least an hour, several times in a month period, being indoctrinated by cheerleading Professional Fundraisers who tell the little kids that if they sell some insane amount of shit they will win a crappy bicycle that retails at WalMart for $45 or $50 - This started when My children were 4 years old in kindergarten! So- My children are getting one hour of science a week and are being told to go out and sell plastic crap to support the public school they attend. They spend at least an hour a day doing homework which I grit my teeth through as I do my best to help them without actually just doing it myself just to get it over with.... BUT during fundraiser drives they are expected to spend at least another hour a day selling this stuff.

I have NEVER allowed them to participate. A large percentage of the taxes we pay are supposed to go to the public schools here. Meanwhile, the Govenator - Arnold, has proposed another tax cut for the public schools.

What is wrong with this picture? This is totally upside down and backwards!

No Child Left Behind MY ASS!

[LisaM]

1. Why so little science? Is it not on those tests

That teachers are forced to teach towards?

I don't have kids and haven't seen the tests, but IIRC, they are basically reading and math. Which would explain why the kids aren't taught science (or music, or art......)

[QueenOfCalifornia]

7. Art...Music

Another big problem is the lack of art HISTORY or appreciation... forget music. That's left up to us -

As for science - Here is a story that I just LOVE... My son, who is 8, told the woman who teaches their science class that he watches Carl Sagen's Cosmos every week. (It is mandatory here and is my form of HOMEWORK) She just looked at him with a blank expression and said "Who is Carl Sagen and what is Cosmos?" Ooo-la-la!

We do have something called Art Corps http://www.artcorp.org/ which is an all volunteer art class for the kids. My kids love it.

[Fresh_Start]

11. Science is not tested in early grade school

thats why no science

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. It is tested in MO

in 3rd and 5th grade.

So MO kids in 3rd and 5th grade get Science.

Who knows about 1st, 2nd and 4th grades. :shrug:

[Fresh_Start]

34. Not until 5th grade in California

the OP was citing Southern California school district

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. And the really dumb thing

is that you can't possibly teach all the Science on that test in just one year.

[Fresh_Start]

37. I don't rely on the school system to teach my children everything

luckily my youngest is a good test taker....
but we've always taught math, science, and literature at home

[QueenOfCalifornia]

39. Me too

we've always taught math, science, and literature at home

I try to make it fun - We like to visit museums and go to historical sites - We take pictures with my digital camera and then we each have to tell a story about the images. Sometimes it is very in depth and other times it is downright silly but no matter how it turns out, we all learn something. I do not expect my kids to write lengthy articles about the fun things we do - I really am trying to inspire them to be creative and develop a love of learning.

[AngryAmish]

2. Don't sweat the scence stuff

I went to a private school in a nice suburb and got no science until 5th or 6th grade. I'm not sure how much they can grasp at that age.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

10. My son

is considered "gifted" and has an amazing memory. He loves science and actually craves information about cosmology and reads the Tech News every morning in the Washington Post. My daughter who is 7 is a hands on type who loves to experience science as fun. The three of us do our own experiments and I try to help them understand the basic laws that dictate the results. There are wonderful programs on the TV - They love Myth Busters which is a great way to get kids interested in science.

They grasp way more than you would ever guess.

[RC]

19. Sweat the Science stuff. Kids can grasp a lot more then we give credit for,

Science, Art and Music needs to start in First grade. Get the kids interested early.
But this administration thinks our kids are just future canon fodder, so why educate them beyond simple reading and math?

[knitter4democracy]

44. My daughter told me about sound wave and the tympannic membrane in K.

They get more than you think. My kids know far more than I did at their ages, and my dad's an engineer who worked in a research facility. He made sure we knew most stuff, but now in second grade, my daughter's telling me all about the simple machines she sees everywhere. Amazing.

[madaboutharry]

3. I have always ignored these things.

I especially resented the "Entertainment Book" fundraiser. That thing was 45 bucks at the time, I think it has gone up to $60 now. I had no intention of asking people to pay $45 for a book full of coupons for oil change discounts at Jiffy Lube and 10% off your bill at some crappy restuarant. (Do I sound cynical?)

[ThatsMyBarack]

4. I've always hated fundraisers.

Inside and outside of schools.

[BoneDaddy]

5. I hear ya

but the sad reality is that schools still are not receiving the type of funding needed to run optimally. I don't like certain aspects of fundraising such as the pressure, the inferiority of the product primarily but there are certain parts of fundraising that can be positive such as goal setting and acheiving and teaching management of money are two that come to mind.

Good luck.

[lpbk2713]

6. And what frosts my cheeks ...

I'm sure there is an implicit message given to the youngsters that if they don't produce, they aren't team players. That they disappointed everyone.

And you're absolutely right about that crappy merchandise. It is always way overpriced, even much more than comparable name brand merchandise.

[Iris]

32. I was thinking the same thing. They probably act like they are helping students develop

"marketable" skills.

[LeftishBrit]

8. There is an oldish British saying...

We'll know things have changed when schools have all the money they need, and the Defense Department has to hold a cake sale to help buy a new missile!

[MissB]

9. I think you need to separate the curriculum from the fundraisers.

I get what you're saying in general about the fundraisers.

Our PTA structures the fundraisers for our school differently so that the kids are only selling one item each year - wrapping paper. It is a quick, easy fundraiser and I tend to opt my kids out of the assembly.

As far as science is concerned - an hour is about right at that age, at least for what I've seen. At that level, they are building the necessary basics that will be needed by about 5th grade. They'll learn a bit about observation and estimating and life cycles. But the good stuff - things like biology, chemistry and natural science - start happening in 5th grade in our district.

One of our big fundraisers each year is an auction. With that auction comes a paddle raise. One year, we targeted the science curriculum as the paddle raise item. Most of the money went to the upper grades, but each lower grade teacher was able to use up to $1000 for science related items.

As a parent, maybe you can help strengthen the science curriculum by something like an auction, or by establishing private partnerships (companies) with the school. We use private companies to come in and lecture on specific science topics and bring in other low cost science exhibits (from the local science museum) that the entire school population can enjoy and explore.

Enrichment isn't free, but it doesn't have to be gold plated either. The school isn't going to spearhead anything beyond the basic curriculum requirements of your state. In my experience, it is the parents who have to step in and (with the cooperation of the administration) enrich their kids' education.

[MissB]

12. Also

Since you've mentioned "gifted" let me just say right now that the school will never reach your expectations on providing an appropriate education for your gifted child/children. Wouldn't that be nice, though?

I end up having to pay to send my children to afterschool classes run by a local science/math academy. My 4th grader knows the periodic table backwards and forwards and can tell me pretty much everything there is to know about each element. He was asking a question the other day about covalent bonding. I can assure you that knowledge isn't coming from school. :rofl: And it never will, in early elementary.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

16. Ha!

I already know this... But it makes a difference to read it from another human out there.

[samdogmom]

13. Isn't this the result of all of those "Proposition ###" votes?

Many states are struggling with ways to contain the mounting costs of education. California put the clamp on things two decades ago with the "Proposition" initiatives.

You, unfortunately, are seeing the results of all of this cost-cutting. Most early adapters were able to get their kids through the system unscathed.

Education costs REAL money. And, our country has got to accept this fact! Teachers are far more important long-term than any actor, music star, or corporate CEO--yet they're paid like fast-food workers.

Believe me, the fund-raisers for schools are important. In my experience they bought the kids "extras" like guest speakers and field trips. Today, in my district, our fundraisers are supporting part-time instructors so classes of 35+ aren't so overwhelming for all involved.

Me? I just want ALL OF THE MONEY WASTED IN IRAQ BACK! I want it to fund the important things in life and not enrich a few dubya cronies!

[doni_georgia]

14. Our school eliminated fund raisers like these

Of course, living in Georgia - where the governor cuts the education budget every time he takes a crap - we have to raise money. We do it by asking those who can to donate, selling jeans passes to teachers, charging admission to school dances, holding tailgate parties for sporting events where admission is charged, etc. Not a perfect solution but beats selling wrapping paper.

[MadHound]

15. So are you blaming the schools for this?

Perhaps you should blame your federal, state and local government, also your fellow citizens for this instead. School budgets are subject to the whims of the federal government, which has not only cut money for public schools, but thrown in a huge unfunded mandate into the mix with NCLB. More things for schools to cover with less money. Many states, including both yours and mine, have cut state funding to schools, meanwhile many are requiring schools to do more with less also. That leaves raising money through property taxes or other such local funding means, virtually all of which are at the discretion of the voters. Even in good times most people don't want to spend tax money on schools, and now that the economy has taken a downward turn, they really don't want to. With inflation and school costs rising, what's a school supposed to do. If they cut back on something, parents scream, if they don't cut back, they run out of money, and now that they're holding fundraisers people are complaining.

Imagine if you ran a business in which most of your operating capital was determined by the voters, whose purpose and goals were determined by the public, whose finances were never stable, and which had to continue taking on more and more tasks without a commiserate rise in payments. Would that business operate very long or very efficiently? No, it wouldn't. What needs to happen is that those who know best, local school administrators and teachers, along with some public input, need to be able to dictate what money they need and policies to put into effect. That way your child's education wouldn't be at the whim of the penny pinching grinch down the street. Teachers' salaries would rise, thus attracting and retaining better teachers into the field, a broader curriculum could be offered, and you would see the disappearance of school fundraisers. However since none of that is going to happen, our education system limps on, doing the best it can under conditions that seem determined to drive it under.

Oh, and an hour of homework in second or third grade, that's really not out of the norm. I don't know where you attended school, but I was doing an hour's worth of homework when I was in second grade, that was forty years ago, and thought it was no great imposition. One of the problems that kids have today is too damn many after school activities, which not only cuts into studying time, but also cuts into the time that lets kids be kids, playing outside, that sort of thing. I would say that the hour's worth of homework isn't a bad thing, it's all the rest of the activities trying to be packed in around it.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

18. Uh...

Just wondering....Do you think that I am a total idiot?

I do not blame the school itself but see these idiotic fundraisers as symptomatic of a gigantic problem.

I am 51 years old. I know I didn't have an hour of homework when I was 6 or 7. But then, I was educated by coal miners while riding a burro deep into the mines while holding my breath in the dark.... No? Oh, yeah, that was the dream I had last night... I went to the average public school in Los Angeles back in the '60's- I graduated from a joke of a HS in 1974 - I did 4 years of University in less than 3 years and graduated when I was 19.

I am not one of the parents who do the trillions of activities available today. I have friends who do it and they spend every moment driving between these events and then bragging about how they are so busy that they can't possibly cook dinner so they eat take out 4 or 5 times a week. Me? My husband and I try to do something fun with the kids every weekend. We have year passes to our Zoo, The San Diego Zoo and yearly passes to SeaWorld. I am the parent who is way more involved with the daily learning process - One hour ---One hour is not enough.

My husband and I are the ONLY parents from the school that DO attend the public board meetings.

[MadHound]

21. Sorry, didn't mean to come across as harsh

Too many people blame the schools for things that they're either forced to do(fundraisers) or can't control. You're right, it is a symptom of a much larger problem, the completely political form of funding that goes into our schools.

I'm glad to hear that you're so involved in your school, far too many parents aren't.

As far as the hour's worth of homework in second and third grade, sorry, but that is rather normal.

[Thothmes]

41. I am not sure that I agree with your statement

that "School budgets are subject to the whims of the federal government." In most cases the Feds normally provide the smallest chunk of money that goes into a school systems budget. The majority of school funding comes from local and states sources. I am of the opinion, that if the feds cut back on their contribution, it is the responsibility of the state and local jurisdictions. As you have acurately pointed out, these are subject to the approval of the local voters. The Republican mantra of "no tax increases" has seriously hindered efforts to increase funding for schools when the feds cut their contribution.

[LizW]

17. I agree fundraising gets old.

But it is either that or do without important programs.

At the middle school level here, we limit it to one fundraiser a year -- a magazine sale. It is over quickly, right at the beginning of the year.

Now, support for fine arts is another story. The school system gives a piddly amount and parent fundraising makes up the difference. I don't even want to think about how much we have spent out of pocket on music education for our kids. Of course, I would do it again. Fine arts education has been very good for them. But it is unfair that many families can't afford it.

[YvonneCa]

20. Priorities are a mess...

...in California's public schools. I agree with you on fundraisers, but it won't change until parents get involved and teachers are listened to...which they aren't now. I am a teacher, and most teachers I know agree with me ( and you :7 ) .

[fight4my3sons]

22. I do agree that the fundraisers are a pain and the stuff is usually crap,

but sometimes the schools need these funds. I am a new member of my school's PTA (my oldest is in Kindergarten) and our school does these fundraisers in order to have funds available for things like scholarships. Or like right now when the state has frozen the budget and the school can not purchase things like urinal blocks, clorox wipes, or tissues. Funds have also recently been used from PTA monies to purchase oil for families that have income too high to qualify for LHEAP, but would go without food or other necessities trying to keep their family warm.

[sjdnb]

23. I want to know what black hole, the almost $13k/yr we pay per pupil,

is getting sucked into.

Seems to me that somewhere between $158,000-$169,000 per student for a K-12 education ought to about cover things. But, for our three, this year we've paid an additional $1200 in fees and registration, and that does not include all of the fund raisers, individual fees for field trips, special textbooks/workbooks, $800 in a very specific, detailed supply list per grade, donations for special occasions events/activities (i.e., food, supplies, etc.). Additionally, sports/extracurricular fees ($55 - $300+/per sport) and student parking fees ($250/yr) have gone up and up.

So, where is this money going?

For about a decade, teachers have received less than or barely COL increases and lost benefits, staff is cut first, and, yet, staff (esp. teachers) are still repeatedly and unjustly blamed for the district's budget problems while, at the same time, being asked to take on more and more. Programs have been cut and condensed over and over again and the new superintendent is slashing the budget even more drastically and indiscriminately.

With the exception of two new over budget, 'showplace' schools and a huge field house/theater project which, of course, were built in the McMansion areas (which thanks to the turn in the economy will probably not realize the numbers of students or tax dollars projected as a part of the planning) and were paid for through borrowing, the other buildings are in disrepair and inadequate for the populations they serve (1 high/middle school and three elementary schools). The one my three daughters goes to has an air quality issue that is being, virtually, ignored except for some measures taken primarily to pacify parents and staff.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd bet that there are private contractors and suppliers making some good coin off our district.

[dropkickpa]

24. My issue with fundraisers is that

They totally ignore how hard it is for a parent like myself (single, no car) to sell all that crap, go to the school, carry on the bus somehow, and distribute it (and put the freezer crap somewhere). No thank you, there are barely enough hours in the day as it is, I can't spend an extra 2 hours just in bus travel time to do that. There are fundraising programs that ARE easily acheivable for us, but they don't do them (selling candy bars, I could sell millions of them, and Dropkid could carry the box home on the school bus). They pick this market day company that is completely impractical for someone like me to do.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. I hate those fundraisers that involve food

We are doing one now at my school. Who wants to buy frozen dinners from a fundraising organization? Yuck. Does a health inspector even look at that food?

[knitter4democracy]

45. Market Day's expensive, too.

The veggies are good quality, but the cost more than the organic stuff at Meijers does. Then, most of it is that processed crap that I deliberately avoid buying anyway.

I only get stuff for our family and that's it. It's too much to try to sell to anyone else.

[Sequoia]

25. We don't participate any more either.

Magazine, wrapping paper, pizza, cookie dough, flowers, candy, easter bunnies, SEES Candy. Endless crap although I did like the quality of the paper and it lasted a long time the one and only time I participated. I hated knocking on doors and asking people to support the school.

on edit: HA! Just now got an email from the school about the spring SEES candy sale.

[SoCalDem]

26. I never let mine sell stuff either.. I would always send this note to the teachers every year.

dear..........

My son,..........., is not allowed to sell merchandise for school/class purposes. Any "products" that are given to him, to be sold, will be considered a GIFT to our family.

signed............


Only ONCE did they send home a box of candy with one of the boys..

I sent the teacher a thank you note for the box of chocolates, along with a copy of the note I sent in the fall... I got a frantic phone call from her asking us to please return the candy (which I did)...

[demmiblue]

27. I dislike fundraisers as well, but I try to contribute by donating money instead.

In our district, the money generated from fundraisers does not go towards the general operating fund, but toward extras within the school itself (birthday books for the students, funds for extras in the classroom, scholarships, etc.). Personally, I don't want whatever is being peddled out, so I try to give an amount that represents the percentage of profit being earned. It stops there... no asking family members or the community (mostly because the items being sold are not of interest to the people I know). To me, it is an investment within the school. Also, at the high school level, some of the fundraising is aimed at benefiting the less fortunate people within our own communities (depending on the "club").

You can blame the lack of science (and social studies) on NCLB! Although, I believe, many teachers make their best effort to include these subject areas to a greater degree than the curriculum dictates (again, it depends on the school system). The inclusion of science is also a sore spot with me... it is a subject that really uses critical thinking skills, if presented appropriately. Every grade is benefited from observing their natural environment and coming up with observations and conclusions on their own.

As far as homework is concerned, 1 hour is not appropriate for the grade levels of your children. Learning should be a good thing, not a chore. Homework should be a reinforcement of things learned within the classroom. However, special projects that incorporate a home-school connection can be very educational.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Several concerns here

First of all, if we funded public schools adequately we wouldn't need to turn our kids into little sales people.

Remember that bumper sticker from the 80s:

WOULDN'T IT BE NICE IF THE SCHOOLS GOT ALL THE MONEY
AND THE MILITARY HAD TO HOLD A BAKE SALE TO BUILD A BOMBER

About Science, the easiest way to teach a 3rd, 4th or 5th grade boy who is a reluctant reader to read is to put a book about snakes in his hands. Or cars. Or bugs. I have seen kids who were non readers write 5 and 6 page reports on Science topics. Before NCLB, I turned my classroom into a rain forest every spring and we read and wrote about rain forest animals and plants. Spiders were always a big hit. And anacondas!! And piranhas.
:scared:

Of course, those days are long gone. Now we test, test and test some more. And the funding situation is even worse since the tests cost money and the states aren't given funding to pay for the testing.

Wish I had some positive advice to give you. Asking your district to limit the fundraising might help. There is no reason the kids should have to do more than one or two fundraisers a year. We also need to keep speaking out about NCLB. It needs to be abolished, not reformed.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

30. Dear Proud2

I agree... 100%

Peace.

[knitter4democracy]

46. It's NCLB, that's for sure.

All that damn testing. I could start cussing a blue streak about it. All that stress on young kids, all that stress on teachers, all that stress on everyone--for what?! Just so someone supposedly can be held accountable? For what?! A bad day? Sick or hungry kids? Grrrrr!!!!

That's got to be tops on the agenda for the next president. The testing needs to be abolished.

[Mz Pip]

31. I went through this with my kids

Raffle tickets, wrapping paper, magazine subscriptions... Ugh.

I hated it, too. I didn't want them going around selling stuff so I bought all the raffle tickets myself. That wasn't so bad because the prizes were donated by businesses in the community so all the money collected went to the school. I won some nice dinners and an antique armoire.

The rest of the stuff really annoyed me since with most of those 'fundraisers' the school only gets a percentage of the take. I'd write a direct donation to the school and leave it at that. I didn't want the magazines or the wrapping paper or the candy.

It's a sad testimony to the state of our schools when so much time and effort has to be spent on raising money.

Mz Pip

[LibDemAlways]

33. You might suggest to the powers that be at the

school that they hold a "Just for the Funds" fundraiser throughout the year. Parents simply put into an envelope whatever they think they can afford and drop it off at the school. The school gets some badly needed money and the kids don't have to sell anything.

My daughter's school updated its computer lab with money from "Just for the Funds" last year.

The school also has a magazine fundraiser, but instead of paying more for the few mags I get, I'd rather give money directly to the school. It's a win-win. In California the schools really are horribly underfunded, and all donations made directly schools are much appreciated.

[MindPilot]

38. I remember having to do that as a kid...HATED HATED HATED it!!

And I feel so bad for the kids forced to come to my door selling stuff, I hate the interruption, and I hate selling, I hate being sold to. I despise everything about selling and the people who do it.

And these days sending a kid out to go door-to-door with merchandise and money...well that's just stupid and in a different context could well be considered child endangerment.

[SHRED]

40. C'mon Gilligan

Don't you realize that we have missile defense systems to build, "freedom" to install, and brown people to kill?

Let the schools hire out the children. Free market sink or swim.
Besides, the education system is full of libruls anyway.


:patriot:


:sarcasm:

[Dulcinea]

42. I hate them too!

In our school district, we have the option to make a donation to the school instead of making our daughter sell Sally Foster. I refuse to make my kindergartener sell worthless, overpriced crap no one wants or needs.

Also, every year we get a list of school supplies we need to buy. What exactly are our tax dollars going for? Of course, I live in Georgia, 47th in education, where the government cuts education funding first & foremost! :mad:

[knitter4democracy]

43. Really? My kids get tons of science throughout their curriculum.

It's tested early on here in Michigan, though. That's why.

We get two of those fundraisers a year plus Girl Scout cookie sales. It's better than when we were at the Catholic school last year (constant fundraisers--both kids! *runs screaming away*). I hate those darn things.

[trotsky]

47. I've got kids in 1st and 3rd grades.

Hate the fundraisers. Makes me sad. The best related quote I've ever read was something like, "It will be a great day when our schools have all the funding they need and the air force needs to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber."

We ask our close family and friends if it's something they're interested in, but otherwise we'll just cut a check directly to the PTO. I'm sure they get more that way.