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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:30 PM
Original message
Arizona Seeing Signs of Flight by Immigrants
Source: New York Times

PHOENIX — The signs of flight among Latino immigrants here are multiple: Families moving out of apartment complexes, schools reporting enrollment drops, business owners complaining about fewer clients.

While it is too early to know for certain, a consensus is developing among economists, business people and immigration groups that the weakening economy coupled with recent curbs on illegal immigration are steering Hispanic immigrants out of the state.



Read more: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=102



This bears watching. Business is starting to suffer and whole families who are in Arizona legally are leaving because of one member of the family who is here illegally. State is also getting custody of children.
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alstephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep. They are leaving Arizona.
Have you ever seen the movie "A Day Without Mexicans"? I can't wait to hear the whining from the racists when their fruits and vegetables cost more and they can't find anyone to take care of their kids, clean their houses, or mow their lawns. Arizona - red and racist.
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angrycarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Americans had better learn to do those jobs they don't want to do
And how to live twenty in a house. People who think it is a good thing for them to leave will change their tune when all jobs are low paying and when a labor union is only a fools dream.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. No, these folks are convinced that employers will raise wages to $12/hr if the immigrants leave.
Edited on Tue Feb-12-08 07:16 PM by Mountainman
When you say that Americans would not do the work immigrants do they answer yes they would if they paid enough. So I'm guessing that some people believe that if we deport all the illegals the employers will be willing to raise wages to entice Americans to pick strawberries in Santa Maria, CA.
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. housing inventory
Not only that, but I heard on the news last night that there are a WHOPPING 96,000 homes currently on the market here in Maricopa County. Looks like the Anglos might move as well!
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The state Republicans brought it on themselves with that stupid hiring law.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is a good law
We need to punish employers who exploit illegal immigrant labor. It drives down wages and benefits for everybody else.
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pingzing58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yup, it's them Illegals that will be hired for lower wages by General Motors while
forcing those in high wage jobs out of employment. Damn them critters! :sarcasm:
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That law was never properly enforced!!!!
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Did you read the article though? Even if you are for it in principle the impacts are mostly bad.
What about the American child born in this country of an illegal now moving from town to town and afraid? What kind of American will he grow up to be?

What about the poor business who loses two good workers because grandpa is here illegally and the whole family must move.

There is no point in "exporting" poverty abroad because it doesn't export. The bottom line is that if you study history trying, en masse, to shove people around simply doesn't work, in communist countries, or in capitalist countries.

It is bad public policy.
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. other job losses
I wonder how many well-paying supporting jobs will be lost as well.
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Fed_Up_Grammy Donating Member (923 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. They're pouring out of Rhode Island too according to today's
Boston Globe.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. Two families on my block have moved.
They've been gone since just after Christmas.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-12-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. Prop 200 ...
This article is from 2005, and gives an interesting look at some of the effects.

Prop. 200 Passed After a Campaign Rife with Xenophobia and Half-Truths

In 2004, anti-immigrant groups nationwide with intimate ties to white nationalist organizations focused their attention on Arizona. Residents there were frustrated with low-wage jobs, poor healthcare, and funding being directed away from schools and public benefits programs. Extremists joined with a handful of fringe local groups to promote a hateful agenda of blaming immigrants for the state's woes.

In fact, immigrants, both documented and undocumented, contribute heavily to Arizona's economy. The Thunderbird School of International Management and Wells Fargo Bank, in their report Economic Impact of the Mexico-Arizona Relationship, demonstrated that immigrants make enormous tax contributions, paying annually $300 million more than they receive in services in Arizona.6 In 2001, Mexican immigrants in Arizona paid $1.5 billion in mortgages and rent, and Arizona banks and other financial institutions received $57 million in transaction costs and fees from remittances sent to Mexico from the state. In addition, Mexican immigrant purchasing power in Arizona was estimated at $3.9 billion in 2001.

Further contradicting FAIR's numbers, the New York Times recently reported that the 8 to 10 million undocumented immigrant workers in the U. S. are now providing the Social Security system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year. This money will never be collected by undocumented immigrants themselves and will help fund the retirement of U.S. citizens for decades to come.8 Nevertheless, FAIR continues to peddle its own statistics to promote Prop. 200 copycats in other states, scapegoating immigrants--not the federal government--for the severe cutbacks in state social and health services.


Voting Rights of U.S. Citizens Under Attack

Prop. 200 backers also made unfounded accusations that undocumented immigrants voted in Arizona. Their true aim was to suppress voting by people of color. They openly declared during a televised debate, "Too many Latinos are voting." The impact of Prop. 200 identification requirements on voter registration has been staggering--in Pima County, over a two-week period early this month, 423 of 712 voter registration forms were rejected, or 59% of new voters. Last year, when 6 times as many people were registering because of the presidential election, no voter registration forms were rejected.

Since the approval of Prop. 200 by Arizona voters, immigrants have come under further attack from the Arizona legislature. This legislative session there were more than 20 anti-immigrant bills that sought to expand Prop. 200's application and many of them have been approved or are still pending.

Arizona is already red-flagged by the U.S. Justice Department (USDOJ) because of its history of widespread voter intimidation against people of color. Consequently, all changes to the state's voting laws must be approved by the federal government. Despite Prop. 200's blatant discriminatory intent, in January 2005 the USDOJ ruled that forcing people to show proof of citizenship when registering to vote does not deter people of color from voting.

Arizona is now the first state in the U.S. to require that anyone registering to vote present a birth certificate, passport, or tribal identity card. In Arizona, approximately one-third of the Latino and African American populations live in poverty. Citizens who cannot afford to purchase a birth certificate ($15 in Arizona), or passport ($85) will be prohibited from registering to vote. Civil rights leaders say this is eerily reminiscent of racist poll taxes. Prop. 200 also wipes out clipboard voter registration drives because making copies of the required documents at a potential new voter's doorstep is practically impossible. A number of bills currently before the legislature seek to further restrict voting rights and are sponsored by the same anti-immigrant contingent of legislators.


Arizona Becomes the VanguardState for Anti-Immigrant Measures

Since the approval of Prop. 200 by Arizona voters, immigrants have come under further attack from the Arizona legislature. This legislative session there were more than 20 anti-immigrant bills that sought to expand Prop. 200's application and many of them have been approved or are still pending.

Prop. 200-like legislation is actively being promoted by FAIR and other anti-immigrant organizations around the country. Emboldened by Prop. 200's passage in Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Virginia, and Ohio are all facing similar measures. In Arkansas, Joe McCutchen recently became the chair of "Protect Arkansas Now," a group supporting the "Arkansas Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act," closely modeled on Proposition 200. A recent report by the Southern Poverty Law Center notes that Joe McCutchen was a member of the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC) in 2001, according to the CCC's newspaper.


National and International Boycott of Arizona Imminent

Prop. 200, the rapid advance of its legislative offspring, and the upsurge of armed paramilitaries on the border, have prompted communities in Mexico, Arizona, and across the United States to begin organizing a boycott of Arizona. The boycott will target Arizona businesses, conventions, and tourism, and will ask individuals and businesses to shop, travel, and conduct business elsewhere.

The communities most affected by Prop. 200 and its offspring bills in the Arizona Legislature wield considerable economic power. Mexican tourists alone spend an estimated $1.6 billion in Arizona every year, and Mexican immigrant purchasing power is close to $4 billion. Mexicans who might normally visit Arizona to shop would be asked not to purchase anything in the state. In addition, immigrants, Latinos, and their allies in Arizona have begun to engage in work stoppages, and are considering boycotting specific industries or companies that support anti-immigrant legislation.


More: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0605-25.htm


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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. Bad link
your in-post link brings me to the LBN "do not post if..." page.
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williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. As long as they head due South, no problem here. Where is everyone's empathy for those
waiting to let in our country legally and can't? Or those that did wait and are now legal residents? How fair is this amnesty bullshit and feeling sorry for folks who broke our laws to all of them?

We have articles daily here about folks who are now afraid to drive without a license for fear they'll be deported. WTF. They shouldn't be here at all, much less driving without a license and insurance. They actually expect us to feel sorry for them hiding in their homes? They should have been afraid all along.

Do you who feel sorry for them also feel sorry for drug dealers who are arrested and say they were only trying to feed their families and help extended families?

I've always been a liberal and tried to help others. I've taken in children from abusive families to help them get away, costing me tens of thousands in legal fees to get emergency temporary custody. I have many friends who have legally immigrated to our country and am not zenophobic. I regularly donate time and money to all causes, but will NOT support this crap about forgiving illegals one more time.

Arizona's law has been ruled constitutional. I wish VA would do the same. Some localities have done so but are facing lawsuits from others. We now have to pay legal fees to uphold our own federal laws? This is nuts.
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mvccd1000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Well said!
Thanks for a common-sense view of the issue.

It is so frustrating to hear the knee-jerk "racist" reactions as soon as this subject comes up. It seems that some people on either side of the issue are too tied up in the race aspect to actually look at the merits of anyone else's arguments.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Arizona Becomes the Vanguard State for Anti-Immigrant
Measures. Ironic aint it? McLame, from AZ., sponsored the Immigration Bill with Ted Kennedy.
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-13-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. I agree with you
Those who have followed the rules should not be punished by waiting for years and years to come here while "illegals" come in everyday and instead of being punished for breaking the laws, they are rewarded with jobs, and in time learn to abuse the social welfare system of this country. It's not right!

I have no problem with "legal" immigration, and we do need people to come here "Legally" and work, but when employers take advantage of illegals and use them to lower wages, eliminate benefits, and pay them sub standard wages, then my view is we need to go after those employers and stop this problem before it gets worse than it already is!

Yes, we need a worker program that really works for not only the emplyers, but the immigrants who come here "legally" to work. We need to help those who really want to work and not take adavantage of our social services, and get rid of drug dealers and criminals. We need to crack down on illegal activity that affects not only citizens of this country, but affects the illegals who do want to work but who will not go forward when a crime is commited on them for fear of being deported.

Congress can work this out if they really want to, but my view is that the "DON'T" want to because corporate america wants these illegals to drive down wages and increase their profits. Congress, both sides, will not do what is right for the people, but they will do what is good for the corporations that give them the money!

The first thing we have to do is "ENFORCE OUR LAWS"! Fine the employers so much they will stop hiring illegals, and if they don't, put them in jail for a few months. We need to pressure congress to do what is right for everyone, not just the employers who want to keep wages down, and not have to pay any benefits to their workers. Then, and only then, can we really work on a plan to help those employers who "really" need help, and can not find it. If an employer can prove they have tried to hire citizens, or legal immigrants, but were unable to find the help they need, then they can apply for help through a temporary workers program.

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