Since Justice Scalia believes the Constitution doesn't prohibit torture, some questions...

[Kelvin Mace]

1) How many people must be at risk before torture is allowed? A million? A hundred thousand? Ten thousand? A hundred? One?

2) How will the number of people at risk be determined? Who will determine the risk?

3) At what age may a child be tortured?

4) If the person possessing critical information of a threat to human lives resists torture, will we torture their spouses, parents, children, pets or other relatives/loved ones?

5) If our suspect is a pregnant woman, will we torture her at the risk of her unborn child?

6) To assure proper "ethical" use of torture, will we license/certify individuals in the practice?

7) What will be the penalty for practicing torture without a license?

8) Must their exist and actual threat to human life to permit the use of torture, or do we simply have to believe such a threat exists?

9) If the tortured suspect lies to us in order to stop the torture, what will the punishment be?

10) In a "ticking bomb" scenario where it is impossible to contact the police in time, may I torture someone to force them to divulge what they know?

11) If the wrong person is tortured due to clerical error, may they be sued for maltorture?

12) In the case of the threat of a possible school shooting, will teachers and custodial staff be subject to torture as well as students, or just the students?

I am sure other questions will occur to you. Feel free to post them.

[annabanana]

1. It only follows that these questions

will require answers! Great post!

[Warpy]

2. And how shall "cruel or unusual punishment" be defined?

Is torture only allowed before conviction of a crime so that it isn't punishment? Is that the tap dance they're doing to satisfy their sick, sadistic minds?

This administration is sickening. The sooner we get rid of the lot of them, Scalia and Thomas included, the better.

[rcole11]

3. If torture is not such a "bad thing" then I would suspect that all of McFake's campaign ads labeling

him a hero for standing up to Vietnamese torture will be pulled this November? Yeah right.

[Winterblues]

7. Except he did not stand up to them, he did exactly what they wanted him to do

McCain made a tape for the North Vietnamese and the US Government forgave him because he was tortured and the concensus was anybody would crack if tortured so he didn't betray America...

[Kelvin Mace]

9. After a while, you will confess to anything

that is why torture is useless, except to sadist like Bush.

[truth2power]

39. Good post! If torture isn't such a bad thing..

why should McCain be considered a hero for standing up to it? (Although he didn't, as I see further on).

Someone should put this question to him.

Oh, and Scalia is nothing but a common thug...a disgrace to the Supreme Court.

[Kelvin Mace]

4. This is one of the reasons

that even if we win big in November, we have already lost. Scalia and his ass clowns will be continuing the destruction of this country even with the GOP neutered.

[northzax]

33. yes, that's exactly what he said

torture for interrogetory purposes is not 'punishment' so it down't violate the 8th.

odd, isn't it? Remember how George Washington and Thomas Jefferson used to torture people? good times.

[niyad]

5. scalia, how about the cia just does it to you, so you will KNOW what this is

since you don't think it's torture, you should have no objections.

[elehhhhna]

6. K&R. Rec this thread, please!

[Kelvin Mace]

10. Thanks for the recommend

I think this narrative is getting buried by the fact that Reid sold us out again.

[mmonk]

8. Torture his ass and see how he feels.

[MissWaverly]

11. I thought the whole trial by jury idea was to abandon torture

there used to be trial by ordeal, they threw you in the river, if you floated then you were guilty (having some evil power) but
if you sank, they allowed your family to go and scoop you out of the water becuz you were innocent. Then the Founders came up
with trial by jury where guilt is based on evidence of wrongdoing and not screams or groans.

[Kelvin Mace]

19. Well, now, that's the problem

Here they were, determining guilt or innocence in a "traditional" manner, and along came some pointy-headed liberals inflicting their San Francisco liberalism on everyone. Boom, next thing you know, everybody was mincing around in powdered wigs having dealings with the French.

[MissWaverly]

21. well, we seem to have confused judge, jury and evidence

this way, the innocent like Valerie Plame are truly guilty while the guilty are truly innocent like Scooter Libby, who was just too
nice a guy to go to jail.

[smoogatz]

12. Other questions:

1) Can an individual who does not represent a threat to American lives ethically be tortured in order to obtain the names of others who might represent a threat?

2) Can an individual be tortured for espousing beliefs which are antithetical to those of the government, since that person represents a threat to government authority and is therefore a danger to American lives?

3) Can an individual who does not represent a threat to American lives be tortured in order to serve as an example to those who might?

4) Can political dissenters be tortured in order to obtain the names of other dissenters?

5) If dissenters will not confess to crimes against the state, can the children and spouses of dissenters be tortured in order to obtain the dissenters' confessions?

Really, once you open this can of worms there's no end to it. Or at least that was the operating principle we'd been functioning under until fucking hell froze over.

I really don't recognize this country anymore.

[philly_bob]

13. Does the Catholic Church have a position on torture?

Actually, I missed where Scalia actually came out and said the Constitution doesn't prohibit torture. Do you have a link?

[smoogatz]

14. Officially against. Historically very much in favor.

Here's yo' link:

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1226195720080212?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true

[Kelvin Mace]

20. Supposedly, they are against it

but since the Inquisition still exists, I wouldn't be so sure. If you are expecting censure from Rome, the silence will be deafening.

[defendandprotect]

26. Vatican on torture . . . ???

I think they're STILL for it ---

Hey, they set the precedent for new heights of cruelty and torture ---

[Uncle Joe]

15. 1. One, if it's a neocon

2. A neocon

3. Children usually reach the age of consciousness at age five, so that would be my guess.

4. Yes, followed by digging up their deceased ancestors and torturing them as well.

5. Yes, life begins at conception unless the unborn is a future terrorist.

6. No, to liscense or certify torturers would only create another bureaucracy adding to big government, trust in the private market to take care it.

7. A promotion to Bush's inner circle of trusted advisers.

8. We create our own reality, therefore if we believe something to be true, it's real.

9. Death to the prisoner and then raping of the corpse without being gentle about it.

10. Yes by all means, we encourage private enterprise and the taking of initiative.

11. No, waivers must be signed by the torturees at the threat of death before torture can begin.

12. Yes, along with those cafeteria workers, bus drivers and school crossing guards, we can't be seen as being soft on terrorism.



If you have nay further questions feel free to ask.

Thanks for your concern,

Injustice Scallion

[Disturbed]

16. Scalia should be Impeached.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/law_in_action/723...

His claims are in violation of the US Constitution.

[Uncle Joe]

17. I totally agree, Disturbed. n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

22. Can't do it

Nancy Pelosi "pinky swore" that she wouldn't impeach anyone.

[Uncle Joe]

24. I'm just curious,

I thought I read here once that she was related to a Skull and Boner, it might have been her dad, I can't remember for sure, do you or does anyone else know if this is true?

[Kelvin Mace]

27. Well,

I am not a believer in those type of conspiracies. Simple incompetence and greed explain most treachery.

[defendandprotect]

28. You mean there is no ORGANIZED greed . . . ?

No ORGANIZED treachery -- ?

Though our laws cite "conspiracy" --- ?

[defendandprotect]

29. Beyond doubt . . . the Gang of 5 who pulled off the 2000 heist should be

retroactively impeached --- one dead, I believe --- OK -- posthumously!

[Thothmes]

38. Insufficient grounds for impeachment

According to the Constitution he has to actually commit treason, bribery, other high crimes or misdemeanors. Opining about torture is none of these. If he can convince four other Supreme Court justices as to the merits of his opinion, then theoretically, it becomes constitutional.

[onethatcares]

18. I thought we were better than the communists because they

tortured people in order to make them confess to things they didn't do, they had secret prisons, you could be arrested in the middle of the night,disappeared,made to stand trial on secret evidence and sentenced to die. All without your family knowing what happened to you. WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR COUNTRY?

[Disturbed]

23. WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR COUNTRY?

The Busholini Regime has turned the USA into a Nation that is similar to ones that
Americans fought against in WW2.

[defendandprotect]

30. We were . . . but then along came fascists ---

They're here --- and they're staying --- !!!

"Show us your papers, please . . . "

[Kelvin Mace]

32. I was at a "meet & greet" for Kay Hagan last night

and I listed all the evidence that we now live in a de facto police state. Ms. Hagan, who is running for the Dem slot to run against Liddy Dole in NC, is nice enough, but she believes in bi-partisanship and just smiled at me tolerantly when I explained how things were.

http://thoughtcrimes.org/s9/index.php?/archives/2262-A-short-evening-with-Kay-Hagan.html

[defendandprotect]

35. Interesting how you become the demented citizen . . . .

when you outline the obvious; kinda like seeing UFOs or pushing for impeachment --- !!!

Maybe we need to get something in writing before we vote these days --- ???

How's that Democratic Platform coming along --- anyone know?

Meanwhile, Reid and Pelosi have delivered very crippling blows to Democrats, who seem to
understand it, but don't really want to look at the ever-piling-up-evidence that there
isn't a damned thing they can do about it!

Acknowledgment would mean they'd have to think in terms of Plan B --- and that taboo.

So, we keep going around in circles --- spiraling downward.

[defendandprotect]

25. Scalia and Thomas, Roberts and Alito are "ticking time bombs" . . .

[annabanana]

31. I sent a copy of this list to the only email addy on the SCOTUS

web page. It made me feel a 'little' better... but not much.

[L. Coyote]

34. Kennedy, O'Connor, Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas GAVE US the Bush mess.

How do Kennedy, O'Connor, Rehnquist, Scalia and Thomas feel about that today? ??

[L. Coyote]

36. kick! Can we start a med school program? "ethical torture" for physicians ??

[Wizard777]

37. When you use Doctors. You also run the risk of having your torture called medical experimentation.

Also Illegal to do to POW's.