BREAKING ON CNN: Another school shooting.

[zanne]

No link yet.

[napi21]

1. Yea, at a Louisiana tech school. It's really sad that so many

think the solution to their problems can be solved with a gun!

[bdamomma]

30. maybe that is what this administration taught others.

[JBoy]

2. MSNBC: Woman kills 2 students, self in Baton Rouge, La., college classroom

No details.

[aquart]

3. A woman??????

That's rare.

[zanne]

4. The sickness is spreading.

That's how sickness works.

[TahitiNut]

6. She apparently didn't feel like finding a man to do it for her.

:hide:

[Jamastiene]

37. You are just asking for it now.

Come here.
:spank:

[MissB]

26. It is, isn't it.

Sad, no matter the gender.

[notadmblnd]

5. it's got to be all the meds people are on..

I wonder if she was being treated for depression?

[zanne]

8. Or the guns people are on....nt

[tuckessee]

9. There have always been a lot of easily available guns.

Mass rage shootings are a somewhat recent developement.

[zanne]

11. Wrong. Guns are more plentiful by the day...

With the gun culture as big as it is now, the gun lobby has been free to loosen gun laws and block any new gun control laws. You have to admit there would be fewer shootings if the gun culture wasn't present in every form of public entertainment. Television, movies, video games, etc. are just obscene with it. And the gun lobbies make sure that Americans think that's OK.

[jmg257]

13. Are you saying govt should infringe more on basic rights, for an illusion of safety? How Bush-like!

More gun control laws, despite Constitutional security of the unalienable right - all for "our safety".

SO you are all for the Patriot Act and the Warner Act too I suppose?

NO THANKS!

[brentspeak]

18. What "inalienable right"?

There's no "inalienable right" for just anyone to be able to own a gun.

[jmg257]

23. Sure there is. It is enumerated right there in the Constitution. As requested

by numerous ratifying committees:

North Carolina

Resolved, That a Declaration of Rights, asserting and securing from encroachment the great Principles of civil and religious Liberty, and the unalienable Rights of the People...

17th. That the people have a right to keep and bear arms;

Virginia:
That there be a Declaration or Bill of Rights asserting and securing from encroachment the essential and unalienable Rights of the People in some such manner as the following;

Seventeenth, That the people have a right to keep and bear arms;


George Mason:
That there be a Declaration or Bill of Rights, asserting and securing from Encroachment, the Essential and Unalienable Rights of the People, in some such manner as the following.
17. That the People have a Right to keep and to bear Arms;


Rep Benson: Moved to have the words “but no person religiously scrupulous shall be compelled to bear arms” struck out”. He would always leave it to benevolence of the Legislature, for, modify it as you please, it will be impossible to express it in such a manner as to clear it from ambiguity. NO MAN CAN CLAIM THIS INDULGENCE OF RIGHT. IT MAY BE RELIGIOUS PERSUASION, BUT IT IS NO NATURAL RIGHT, and therefore ought to be left to the discretion of the government…It is extremely injudicious to mix matters of doubt with fundamentals.

(get rid of "religiously scrupulous", keep the right to Bear Arms - Natural AND fundamental)

[1gobluedem]

43. The Constitution clearly states "For a well-regulated Militia"

Not for kooks, thugs, and psychopaths to get their hands on guns manufactured exclusively to kill people.

[jmg257]

44. Close - it says "the RIGHT of THE PEOPLE..." "A...Militia" is only 1 reason WHY its secured.

And a good one! While the declarative clause about the Militia of the several States IS a keen observation, it doesn't LIMIT the inherent right secured for the people. It does however explain why we have rights to military arms in common use - our VERY important role in the Militia (our freedom depends on that right and that role).

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

[1gobluedem]

46. Second Amendment

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[jmg257]

49. Don't ignore the restriction: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall NOT be infringed"

Your emphasis highlights what I have already stated - it is our duty to be armed - "necessary" actually - thanks to the "well regulated Militia" clause (and our role in it), along with those in the body of the constitution which gave VERY important roles to the people/Militia of the several States.

Of course the reason why the Militias must be well armed and well trained is because they must be effective, and so we must have the most effective arms. Otherwise the recourse is that bane of liberty - a Standing Army.


1st Congress; Debates on Proposed Amendments:

re: the religious exemption proposed in what became the 2nd amendment: "A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, being the best security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but no person religiously scrupulous shall be compelled to bear arms."

Rep GERRY: This declaration of rights, I take it, is intended to secure the people against the mal-administration of the Government; if we could suppose that, in all cases, the rights of the people would be attended to, the occasion for guards of this kind would be removed. Now, I am apprehensive, sir, that this clause would give an opportunity to the people in power to destroy the constitution itself. They can declare who are those religiously scrupulous and prevent them from bearing arms. {Note - see how bad the idea is that the people in power can declare who should not bear arms?}
What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. Now, it must be evident, that, under this provision, together with their other powers {see A1,S8,C16}, Congress could take such measures, with respect to a militia as to make a standing army necessary. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.


I don't know what the timeline is for tyranny - but we seem to be right on schedule. We certainly don't need the people helping would-be tyrants limit our basic rights.

[jmg257]

25. BTW - I do agree that u/inalienable right, like all others, CAN be suspended via due process.

It is a viable way of successfully limiting rights of convicted felons, those deemed by court mentally ill, etc.
(still begs the question though that if such people are so dangerous they shouldn't have guns - why are they out in society? Plenty of ways to kill someone)

All-out bans however infringe on everybody indiscriminately, and are to be avoided because they - through usurption -give those in power the ability to disarm the people, and so give those in power the oppurtunity to destroy the constitution itself...all quite contrary to the purpose of our govt and the intent of the BoR.

[Jamastiene]

40. Sure, is specifically says in the Bill Of Rights that we

should all have Ak-47's and bazookas in our living rooms. It's the American way. :patriot:

[jmg257]

41. Close - M4s, M16s, M9s, M249s - "military arms in common use" according to the USSC.

And the framers..."every terrible implement of war are the birthright of an American."

An effective Militia, composed of the body of the people, being necessary to the security of a free State - our freedom depends on it.

[mvccd1000]

22. I disagree, but that's a topic for the Gungeon.

It would be nice if we could keep this discussion suitable for GD.

[NickB79]

45. Guns more plentiful by the day? In 1960 you could buy handguns through the mail!

No background check or age limit required. Until 1986 you could purchase brand-new machine guns. Schools had ROTC shooting teams, kids brought their deer rifles and shotguns with them to school and stored them with the principal so they could go directly up to the cabin to hunt, etc.

I don't think availability of guns has much to do with it anymore.

[Winterblues]

19. You have got to be kidding.....

Does the "Wild West" ring any bells with you? There were many mass killings throughout the old west until sensible gun laws were enacted. No guns allowed in bars , etc..Sheriffs used to make people check their guns when they came into town to avoid such instances. It worked and less people were killed in gun battles but America seems to think it should go back to "the good ol' days"

[tuckessee]

54. As far as mass killings of innocents w/a gun the 1st I know of is

the Unruh shootings shortly after WW2. There certainly were others prior but I am not aware them.

What mass rage killings (not including those committed by the US Army) occurred in the Old West? There must boatloads of documentation about such events.

[malaise]

32. They could not happen without the guns n/t

[napi21]

33. this specific thing couldn't have happenedc, but if someone is

intent on killing and revenge, they will find a way! molotof coctail, some kind of explosive, whatever they can find, but restricting guns won't stop them. I don't think restricting gun ownership will solve anything. We need to find out why so many people think that killing is the solution to their problems. It wasn't always that way! Something has changed the thought process of a lot of people and we need to find out what it was and stop it!

[Jamastiene]

39. Right. Not 50 years ago, they were lining people up and

shooting them in front of Pulitzer winning photographers in Nam. Sure, it's all a recent phenomenon. Why if she had had a rock, I'm sure she would have beaten them to death instead. See? Problem solved. No guns necessary to kill people. They sure do make it a lot quicker and easier though, don't they? :eyes:

[tuckessee]

55. Apple & oranges.

To compare organized group killings by the US Army with individual rage killings is beyond ridiculous.

[Jamastiene]

36. Great. Blame depression sufferers en masse.

I'll have you know that I suffer from depression and I'm on meds for it and I would NEVER do anything like this, for your information. Not funny. :thumbsdown:

[spoony]

47. Thank you!

Every time something like this happens, a DU poster or two or five is sure to say the same ignorant crap, about which they almost assuredly know nothing. For all the gnashing about Republicans being anti-science (and they are), there's a real stream of it here sometimes as well.

[notadmblnd]

52. I'm not blaming the depression sufferers.

I blame the meds. Many of the pharmaceuticals that they make to treat depression causes suicidal/homicidal thoughts. They are some of the horrible side effects. Depression has been with us forever, all the meds have not. Besides, I've never heard of happy people going on killing sprees, have you?

[JBoy]

7. CNN Link up:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/08/la.tech.shooting/index.html

(CNN) -- A female student shot two other women and herself Friday morning inside a classroom on the campus of Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge, authorities said.

Rouge police Sgt. Don Kelly said officers responding to a 911 call found all three already dead in a second-floor classroom. About 20 people were in the classroom at the time of the shooting, Kelly said. He would not give the room number or say what kind of class it was. No shots were fired anywhere else, Kelly said.

Technicians from the local coroner's office were seen unloading stretchers from a van.

[Catshrink]

10. It is so hard to get help for students one suspects is troubled like this

I've tried. There is nothing that can be done unless a threat is made. With many of these, there is no overt threat until the dude or dudette pulls out a weapon.

I watch, I document, I refer to school officials and call parents. I cover all the bases and then hope a kid I suspect is deeply troubled and an internal rage machine can hold it together and not blow.

It's frustrating.

[karlrschneider]

12. Impossible, that is a gun-free zone.

...

[zanne]

14. Which doesn't make any difference as long as there are guns. nt

[jmg257]

16. EXACTLY! Gun control is useless, as there will always be guns (just like illegal drugs). And

possession of THOSE aren't even protected by the law of the land.

[brentspeak]

20. Funny, gun control works well here in NJ

All prospective handgun-permit applications have to be thoroughly vetted by local and state police. That means face-to-face interviews with the applicant, their neighbors, relatives, etc. Cuts down on the number of psychos and criminals who might get their hands on firearms -- unlike so many other states, where insufficient computer database checks all-too-often don't work. Hence, the almost weekly massacres that take place many of the "gun states".

Even the gang members in NJ's violent cities have to import their guns from out-of-state; they have trouble illegally obtaining firearms in-state.

[zanne]

24. As long as they're easy to get in ANY state...

They're easy to get ANYWHERE.

[jmg257]

27. Effective in places like Newark? Thought they had issues there? Or DC? Vermont is a better example.

[karlrschneider]

50. You forgot the sarcasm thingy.

:eyes:

[LSK]

15. do guns get zapped into thin air in a gun-free zone??

How does that work exactly?

[Dawggie]

17. Karl... Wrong time, wrong place.

This is a sad situation.

[mvccd1000]

21. That it is.

If there's going to be a debate on gun control, we should keep it in the Gungeon (where I'll gladly jump into it).

It's terrible to hear of so many shootings in the last week or so, and especially uncommon to hear of a woman committing one.

[spoony]

48. God knows you'd never use people's deaths to make a point about guns.

I mean, except those times when you have. Including a fantastically stupid observation about tornadoes and shotguns.

[Javaman]

28. And so this is what it looks like when you arm teachers. nt

[ManiacJoe]

53. Are you suggesting that the teacher was the shooter?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dawggie]

31. Please go away.

[Maine-ah]

34. wow, you made it to 3 posts already

congratulations. Enjoy your stay.

[Midlodemocrat]

35. What a pithy, witty reply!

:eyes:

[Swede]

38. You can post about cats in the lounge.

There are lots of them there. Not sure if you'll make it to your fourth post,however.

[MrCoffee]

42. Free Speech for All

[JerseygirlCT]

51. What the hell is going on? nt