US generals ‘will quit’ if Bush orders Iran attack

[133724]

SOME of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources.

Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack.

“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said. “There is simply no stomach for it in the Pentagon, and a lot of people question whether such an attack would be effective or even possible.”

<snip>

A generals’ revolt on such a scale would be unprecedented. “American generals usually stay and fight until they get fired,” said a Pentagon source. Robert Gates, the defence secretary, has repeatedly warned against striking Iran and is believed to represent the view of his senior commanders.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1434540.ece

[Fresh_Start]

1. good every single officer in the Pentagon should resign

its not clear that any of them are deserving of their post. What the "bush error in American history" has shown is that the military is no longer being led by honorable men. Its being led by politicians (albeit in uniform) who are looking to polish their resumes.

[orleans]

17. i was thinking the whole fucking army should walk out! n/t

[Divine Discontent]

39. I like that idea....

that would certainly send the message that very few people respect el dunce-o!

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[frankly_fedup2]

72. I'd like to see the Generals and the military join with the majority of

the people and lead a coup into Washington, arrest Bush, Cheney, Rove, and hunt down Rumsfield, then send then to Gitmo until the people decide they have any rights. Yes, it's a pipe dream to be sure but a nice one.

[SammyWinstonJack]

49. ..

:thumbsup:

[Joe Bacon]

64. They won't because Christian Radicals have seized control of the Army

Radical Christians control the army through tools such as Force Ministries http://www.forceministries.com and they are implementing Armageddon. Read the letter on Force Ministries main page from one of their brainwashed soldiers, it is right out of Nazi Germany! The thought that even a single general or admiral would resign on the brink of triggering Armageddon and the return of Jesus is false. These insane radicals really believe Revelation and they want to make it happen on purpose by bombing Iran. Either we will nuke Iran or Israel will and the consequences will be monumental. I really wonder what these fanatics will say when Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are nuked and Jesus pulls a no-show. Maybe that will open the eyes of millions of Americans still brainwashed by TV Preachers to have them finally see that they have been used and manipulated by corporations for years!

[Amonester]

77. They R about to drink the ...

:puke: Rapture-Ready Kool-Aid??

[Doctor Panacea]

97. My own comment

I once made a similar observation. I said that the religious wingnuts keep driving all this stuff, but when it just leads to catastrophe, and nothing else, these people will say, "What the fuck happened to the Rapture?"

Frankly, though, I think that the influence of the religious wingnuts in the Pentagon is minimal. The big influence comes from the civilian population, all the extra-chromosome folks that would not desert the Chimp if he were caught on videotape in the middle of a threesome with Condi and Dick Cheney.

[bananarepublican]

99. The good eggs will be the ones resigning... f-wits left in place... n/t

[Fridays Child]

2. K and R, in honor of Smedley "War Is a Racket" Butler. eom

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[caligirl]

4. Hmm, generals think its worth giving up all they spent a career earning but

congresscritters won't impeach? Hmm, whats it going to take to get some generals elected to the Senate.

[caligirl]

5. the weight of rank, is it a marine commandant, an army chief of staff?

then Bush should just leave DC for Crawford that day and never return to the WH.

[oldtimecanuk]

6. This is absolutely the best news I have heard in along time....

Hat's off to these Generals..... Now lets Impeach these SOB's now, before they come up with something else to start a war on.

ww

[bigtree]

7. that's a great reflection, but there will always be folks who step up

to follow Bush. Look at the shift which just happened in Iraq

[proReality]

8. I doubt it will matter...

the administration will just move more of their incompetent friends into those positions. They have world dominance in mind, and it seems to me there isn't much that will stop them.

[oldtimecanuk]

9. Well then there needs to be a Psychological Annalysis of the people in the WH...

There must be means to take these guys out in Straight jackets, based on a Psychic review... Lets dick deep people, and come up with something here, or the entire world will be doomed...

ww

[postulater]

43. They need to pee in a cup also

Why do baseball players have to prove they're not druggies when the prez can do all he wants?

[tinfoilinfor2005]

90. Excellent suggestion, seriously.

The man with his finger on the button should be subject to random drug testing. And since we are his employers, we should demand it.

[lligrd]

12. Exactly, They Will Just Replace Them By Promoting Pro War

Jackassess.

[Jawja]

60. True.

The only thing that will stop this madness is for the Republicans in the Senate to back the military officers by taking action. Only the Republicans in the Senate have the power to stop this. Until they do, there will always be military personnel ready to step in and follow Cheney's orders.

As long as those crazy SOBS sitting in the Senate back Bush, this will continue.

[w4rma]

93. World domination is impossible for them. But, destroying our country isn't. (nt)

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. what if? mutiny on the bounty?

just imagine the army generals doing a coup! wouldn't that be exciting. Bush being marched off to Gitmo jail!

[badgerpup]

11. OK, that's nice...some of the big brass have finally grown a spine...

...and said "Nuh uh, ain't gonna attack Iran. Gonna resign first."

So Bush ups the ante and says
"Go ahead, buddy. Resign. See if I care. You resign, I just promote some trained monkeys generals up the ladder and they'll owe me SO BIG for the promotion that they'll do anything I tell 'em to. I'm the Decider and the Commander In Chief and I HAVE THE POWAH! So THERE!"


Meaning...if they DO resign...then what?

[oldtimecanuk]

13. Then you march the Fucking retard out in hand cuffs..... I don't understand...

how this asshole has lasted in the WH as long as he has.... What am I missing here....

ww

[Madspirit]

14. Wow

A coup? You know, in your own way, you're scarier than Bush.

Lee

[TankLV]

75. Umm - "the rule of law" and "ain't never gonna happen in my lifetime"

or many more reasons why that scenerio is hair-brained at best - no matter how much it is needed in this particular circumstance and time and place...

If the spineless congress is unwilling to do what the US Constitution DEMANDS for HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS, then I really don't see any meaningful changes happening soon.

I believe that the US will decend into a NAZI-Germany like situation is much more likely than getting rid of these WAR CRIMINALS currently wreaking havoc on the world...

[lutefisk]

15. So, Rummy and his crew didn't purge all the good commanders

The bastards tried, but there are only so many loyalists and remotely qualified political appointees to be found, with a figurehead like Junior in charge.

Looks like we're left with a few good men (and I'm sure women) to save the world...I hope.

[MetaTrope]

16. How nice for them...of course, the grunts and cannon-fodder can't just quit

[knight_of_the_star]

30. Here's what they can do

They can refuse to follow and illegal and immoral order by taking a cue from their higher ups. It happened at the end of the First World War, it could happen again. The German High Command in 1917 was ready to order the High Seas Fleet out to fight the Grand Fleet in a final death struggle, with Germany already losing the war, in one last desperate gamble not to win but to save face. Everyone involved knew it would be suicide for the entire High Seas Fleet, so when the orders were sent out, every sailor in the German Navy refused to obey orders. The entire fleet was brought to a standstill because the sailors said, "No, enough have died already in vain, we don't need any more."

[postulater]

44. Nice bit of history I didn't know, thanks.

[Quixote1818]

18. Holy Shit! This is amazing news. I have never seen anything like this before. nt

[charlie and algernon]

19. DUers advocating a military coup is far scarier than anything bush has done

this is by far the scariest thread i've read here. Many of you are the same guys demanding an end to the violence in Iraq but yet here you have no problem killing innocent police, secret service, and civilians to get to bush. How many people will die in not just the initial attack on the white house, but the potential civil war afterward? Do you not care about the consequenes of such a grave action??

[badgerpup]

21. Not advocating a coup...

like it would make a difference...

I just want to know what would happen if the big guys DID resign.

Would that help the situation any, or would Bush just promote somebody up the ladder and order them to "ATTACK!"

[Rosa Luxemburg]

87. Yes Bush would probably pick some other horse trainer for the job like Brown

[Morgana LaFey]

92. yeah, some people need to learn to read a little more carefully

and with more comprehension of the NUANCES.

I see such remarks as much less "advocating" than reflective of the fact that it's not like we haven't had, um, certain kinds of interference in our national domestic affairs in the past. It could be argued, in fact, and MUCH more persuasively, that we already had coups in 2000 and 2004, and it was the very man some here find not very scary who was the center beneficiary of THOSE coups.

And why DON'T they find Bush scary, given that reality? Or don't they think the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen???

[LonelyLRLiberal]

24. It might literally get scary for advocates of a coup.

Somewhere in my brain is the idea that advocating the violent overthrow of the US government is a crime - am I right or wrong?

[The Wizard]

37. The Republican coup

involved media manipulation, abuse of process, voter fraud, a corrupt Supreme Court and too many citizens willing to accept the chicanery without going into the streets like they did in the Ukraine. Some might call it a military coup, others call it justice, and others yet would call it karma.
With our Constitution in tatters and rampant corruption the order of the day, what follows?

[3waygeek]

42. It's only a crime...

if you fail.

[NoodleyAppendage]

57. Who's advocating a violent overthrow? No one that I can see.

If the military refused to take orders from the Chimp and decided not to be engaged in another war, what would be violent about that? If anything it is anti-violent.

I would wholeheartedly support a peaceful/non-violent coup. Too many have died or will die before the Dem leadership actually grows a spine and impeaches the Criminal in Chief.

J

[Devon77]

36. There are good people and bad people, also good and bad generals

When the good people in military resign, what is left?

The neocons would love Martial Law and a military form of government, no questions just obeying orders.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/11/20/185048.shtml

Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack

Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.

Franks, who successfully led the U.S. military operation to liberate Iraq, expressed his worries in an extensive interview he gave to the men’s lifestyle magazine Cigar Aficionado.

In the magazine’s December edition, the former commander of the military’s Central Command warned that if terrorists succeeded in using a weapon of mass destruction (WMD) against the U.S. or one of our allies, it would likely have catastrophic consequences for our cherished republican form of government.





http://arizona.typepad.com/blog/2007/02/brzezinskis_war.html

Brzezinskis Warning comes to my mind

If the United States continues to be bogged down in a protracted bloody involvement in Iraq, the final destination on this downhill track is likely to be a head-on conflict with Iran and with much of the world of Islam at large. A plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran involves Iraqi failure to meet the benchmarks; followed by accusations of Iranian responsibility for the failure; then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran; culminating in a “defensive” U.S. military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

[NoodleyAppendage]

55. What alternative to you offer? Dems are spineless in removing the Chimp.

The current path is not going to correct itself. What makes you think that Bush will actually leave office? He's already snuck in a law stating that he can declare martial law anytime/anywhere, so why wouldn't he use that unlimited power to stay in office after 2008? Sounds crazy? Maybe...but so did the idea that a bunch of neocons would trump up a nation into attacking a nation to "change the Middle East." After the past 5 years, I put nothing beyond the realm of the Criminal in Chief.

J

[DWilliamsamh]

65. Ummm.... try again.....

I read ONE person mention a coup, and he was roundly objected to. In the main people here are just saying that the prospect of top Generals QUITTING in protest, would be very good indeed if its true. Hopefully the mere threat of this action by the Generals and Admirals will stay Bush's hand and make it clear to him that his blood (oil) lust must go unquenched this time.


Last time I checked, resigning in protest (which 99% regard as positive) is much different that the military taking over the executive (which 99% regard as negative).

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. Exactly. Military rebellion is the worst case scenario.

Here's what pisses me off. When Republicans do their typical antisocial, irresponsible fascist worst, the hue and cry is enormous; "Save us, courts! Save us, UN! Save us John Conyers! Save us Keith Olbermann! Save us military!."

Here's the peckin' order; The army answers to the president who in turn answers to torches and pitchforks. I don't want the army getting in the way of this line of communication.

We are supposed to be enforcing discipline on these administration assholes, not the army.

[TankLV]

76. I believe the time WILL come where a "civil war" will actually be the only GOOD move that can

sanity once and for all.

Fortunately, we are way off for that climate to arrive, IMO...

I hope and pray against everything and everyone I hold dear that it won't come to this, but I am not so optomistic.

But I heartily agree with your general observations on this "coup" topic...

[oasis]

20. Get "Bring it on" George's flight suit ready. (eom)

[roody]

22. The people say NO to war.

[Porcupine]

23. The Xtian Taliban has loyal cadre waiting....

To step up if that is the case. There have been hard-core christian fanatic cells operating in the military acadamies for at least a decade. We hear about the problems of religious harrasment at the Air Force acadamy but you better believe that they have Army and Navy cells also.

There may be a coup in this country but it's not going to be from the left.

[krispos42]

25. If Christian Fundie fanatic cells took over the government....

how would anybody be able to tell?????

[Oilwellian]

26. How is "quitting" a coup?

This has nothing to do with a coup and everything to do with Generals having a conscience. They're not threatening to overthrow Bush....they are threatening to refuse a maniacal order. HUGE difference. Sheesh. This is VERY good news.

[Auggie]

35. No different than having a senior aide or cabinet member resign.

[Erika]

27. The military will no longer honor an egocentric CIC

They've had enough.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. WOW PACE has cotnradicted the CIC and the VEEP

there just may be somehing to this...

[dicknbush]

29. Actualy what they should do is refuse to follow orders and force Idiot in Chiefr to fire them

That would get the worlds attention and also let the Iranians know that the military is not supporting the orders. In fact the Generals should order the troops to stand down and not follow orders from the criminal Bush and his fellow war criminals!

[frogcycle]

48. In my ideal world

that would occur at the VERY top. Bush would fire him, appoint a temporary replacement (needs congressional approval), who would also refuse, and on and on.

The "Saturday Night Massacre" when Nixon went thru three Attorney Generals in an hour was pretty much the "las straw" in Watergate.

What is needed more than anything is an event OTHER THAN bush doing something that causes further irreparable damage that brings the holdouts in congress to the table, and impeachment ON the frickin table!

The idea of a dual impeachment and installation of a Democratic SOH is so radical that forcing it could have repercussions for decades. It would inflame the righties - they would call it a "coup." But if it didn't need to be forced - if the case was overwhelming, even to all but the most extreme of the neofascists - if MANY republican congresscritters not only supported but led the charge, it could just work. Then Pelosi would have to go 'way overboard in being "inclusive" - reverse the damage, yes, but involve the Republicans every step of the way. "Take the high road." It is just possible this country can heal from this disastrous administration, and it will take some really strong, classy leadership to do it.

[pinto]

31. A note on DU policies concerning National Security:

"National Security

Do not post messages that could be construed as advocating armed revolution or violent overthrow of the government of the United States."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

This is a clear guideline we assume all members will respect when participating in discussions here. There is no compromise on this. If posts advocate overthrow of our elected government, we will delete them. We appreciate your consideration.

(aside) On point to the article cited, there is no "overthrow" implied at all. Resignations of high ranking uniformed officials are alluded to from unamed sources.

Yes, it would be a dramatic, but not unprecedented, turn of events. Nowhere in the article, though, is there any implication of a military "coup", undemocratic overthrow of our government or such.

Some of the hyperbole run out here is inappropriate, in the least, and clearly undemocratic. Additionally, advocating armed overthrow of our elected government is illegal. We urge you to remember that.

From the article:

Some of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources.

“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said. “There is simply no stomach for it in the Pentagon, and a lot of people question whether such an attack would be effective or even possible.”

<snip>

One retired general who participated in the “generals’ revolt” against Donald Rumsfeld’s handling of the Iraq war said he hoped his former colleagues would resign in the event of an order to attack. “We don’t want to take another initiative unless we’ve really thought through the consequences of our strategy,” he warned.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1434540.ece

[frogcycle]

47. Thank you mod

I was just frantically getting logged in to post something like that myself

Everybody needs to calm down. It is frustrating to have lived under the reign of these people, more frustrating to have achieved a toehold in the 2006 elections and not see immediate 180 degree change, yet more frustrating to see and hear all the bluster about another impending war. That does NOT mean throw out the baby with the bath. Our entire focus MUST be on salvaging our Constitutional form of government; RESTORING the balance of power. That is not done through precipitous action. It is done carefully, methodically, and LEGALLY.

I welcome the news that top brass are thinking, sentient human beings, who won't follow the CinC's dictates mindlessly. Much like all the talk that every criticism "emboldens the enemy", news like this can "embolden" those who feel this administration is out of control. I think we are headed for a Constitutional crisis, a standoff that goes to the SCOTUS, and I think that the nuances of the decison(s) they need to make can be influenced by poll numbers and stories like this. So this is encouraging. But NO-ONE should look favorably on the idea of an extra-Constitutional remedy.

[wordpix]

81. good policy, thanks, pinto

[Dumak]

32. Not a coup

They will just replace the retired generals and admirals with incompetent political appointees, like they have done with all the other top governmental positions. Hardly a coup. But imagine the huge job the Dems will face in 2008 to replace all these hacks with competent personnel. This will be a monumental task, and you can expect death threats from fascists wanting to hold onto their spots.

[loyal9]

34. THUS REX-84

WOULD BEGIN,THROWING FUEL ON THE FIRE,FEEDING INTO THE RETHUGS AND BUSH HIMSELF,ALLOWING MARSHALL LAW TO BE NEEDED IS WHAT WOULD BE ASKED FOR.THIS IS A VERY TRICKY SITUATION,DO NOT WANT AN INCOMPETENT TO BECOME IRRITABLE.

[NoPasaran]

46. That damn Marshall Law again!

That bastard should be in jail!

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

103. In the past (2003), this admin. had carte blanche

The majority of the public is against this war now. The smoke and mirrors are gone. Transparency is all that remains.

[Jonathan50]

33. I found this little snippet interesting.

The US air force is regarded as being more willing to attack Iran. General Michael Moseley, the head of the air force, cited Iran as the main likely target for American aircraft at a military conference earlier this month.

The Air Force is the service with the fundie problems at the academy in Colorado Springs.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/apr2005/acad-a30.shtml

Christian fundamentalist bigotry reigns at US Air Force Academy
By Patrick Martin
30 April 2005


Evangelical Christians among the officers and cadets at the US Air Force Academy have created an atmosphere of systematic intolerance towards Jewish and non-religious students, according to reports by minority students and investigations by off-campus groups concerned about the rise of fundamentalist bigotry.

(snip)

According to an account published in the Los Angeles Times, Mikey Weinstein, a graduate of the academy and lawyer in Albuquerque, New Mexico, who is Jewish, was outraged by the religious bigotry expressed against his son Curtis when he entered the academy. His son was called a “filthy Jew,” among other slurs.

“When I visited my son,” he told the Times, “he told me he wanted us to go off base because he had something to tell me. He said, ‘They are calling me a ... Jew and that I am responsible for killing Christ.’ My son told me that he was going to hit the next one who called him something.”

[KharmaTrain]

38. So Is The Military Not Supporting The Troops?

Or are they abetted and comforting the "enemy"? Methinks the military has woken up to see who the real enemy is...and it's squatting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Any scholars here know what it takes to remove a "Commander in Chief" due to incompetence?

[Devon77]

41. Forget impeachment, concentrate on the 25th Amendment to the Constitution

http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_733.shtml

snip

In the case of Mr. Bush, his family, vice president, cabinet, and Congress are unwilling to act to remove a clearly mentally incapacitated individual from office.

The U.S. Joint Chiefs, who also took an oath to uphold the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, could seek out a federal judge to authorize the removal of Bush from office.

The argument could be based on an in extremis situation in which a mentally ill president is endangering the public safety and national security and those empowered by the 25th Amendment to initiate removal procedures are unwilling to carry out their constitutional obligations.

U.S. jurisprudence is based on case law. In this case, in the absence of case law, those in authority must think originally and let the courts sort out the matter after the fact. However, having a nuclear arsenal in the hands of a madman intent on using it (the "ticking bomb scenario mentioned in reference to terrorism), leaves no time for wrangling over legal minutia. The Armed Forces clearly have the Constitution on their side in checking the "The Decider."

[frogcycle]

52. our "in extremis" situation is much more extremis than that

they set it up perfectly - the guy calling the shots is the #2. Yes, bush seems to be mentally wacked out, but cheney is the REAL megalomaniac. It's hard enough to accomplish ONE unprecedented legal move, but TWO AT ONCE? fat chance.

[Vinca]

40. Finally, FINALLY . . . you can't make war without soldiers. nt

[Rottenmac]

45. I already posted my thoughts...

on my blog page here, so I wont double-post... But I think these men in uniform should have the courage of their convictions and stand up to chimpy. If these men quit, they are abandoning America™ and the Constitution and all our freedoms they swore to uphold, defend and protect. They should call this a$$hat out on his insanity, and make it clear they know better than he does, regardless if he is the Chimp-in-Charge.

[ManOfTheYear]

50. Does Iran Have Allies...

that would come to their aid? I mean doesn't Russia and China have interest with Iran???

[classof56]

73. You make a good point. That's the reason an attack on Iran.....

scares the hell out of me. I believe it would put the future of our planet in jeopardy.

Welcome to DU, MOTY!

[PassingFair]

83. Russia has already begun cancelling lucrative contracts....

with Boeing, probably among other U.S. firms.

If it continues, corporate overlords will smash
georgie and his neocons like bugs.


... i hope.

[randycrow]

105. Yep. Like Russia, India and China

All 3.5 billion of em. Attacking Iran is the same as starting WWIII. The Generals know a Neocon led USA attacking Iran is a War Crime and they do not want to become War Criminals. Hopefully true American Generals will infiltrate the Neocon Generals and compromise the bad guys. A Neocon led USA financing and supplying weapons to Sunni al Queda communi$t$ have already been invading Iran form Afghanistan - the Executive is making war without the US Congress authority as we write - treason and impeachment material. Who is the Neocon's biggest enemy? US. The American people. The Mid East invasions are sending oil prices up, up and an attack of Iran may block the Straights of Hormuz and oil prices may go as high as $250.00 per barrel - the result? Transfer of USA Middle Class wealth to the Super Rich. Biggest victim? The American people. Watch for another Neocon communi$t goal - placing the USA under Marshall Law. How will the Neocons get WWIII started? Expect fakes, possibly with North Korea. The big daddy is the Persian Gulf. Blow an Iranian ship out of the water and say Iran fired first is my guess for now.

[MGD]

51. Iran will just have to attack us first then I suppose. nt

[Amonester]

78. Why would they do that?

They R doing business with helliburton and karlyle.

Remember the Iran/Contra Criminals

[Junkdrawer]

53. Which is why a synthetic terror attack of some sort will accompany...

the attack on Iran.

No 9/11...no attack on Iraq. No ?????....no attack on Iran.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[derby378]

56. Resignation isn't good enough - they'll simply be replaced by shills

What they need to do is stay in their jobs and simply refuse to send their troops into Iran.

[lebkuchen]

58. Mutiny is next on the agenda should Bush pursue his insane policies

[durrrty libby]

59. Jesus ....These god damn jackasses must must be stopped

[wordpix]

80. I say impeach the bastards NOW! All of them responsible for this ME disaster!

:nuke:

[deutsey]

61. Like that guy said in "When the Levees Broke"

You have to wonder about a country (including its military leaders) that continues to support the an inept junta that catastrophically bungles everything it does.

I would hope the military brass would finally buckle under the incompetence of our so-called commander in chief.

[peekaloo]

62. omg I just re-watched that yesterday.

Got pissed off all over again.

Yes, that man stood out among the many for being scared about his country and those who refuse to see Bu$h "for what he really is".

:-(

[stubtoe]

63. Interesting to see Generals standing up for democracy, while the Congress

twiddles its thumbs. I have been hoping someone would come to the rescue, and look, it's the Pentagon.

Crazy times.

[Jonathan50]

66. *Real* military folks don't generally want war

It's the faux military wannabees and those who haven't seen combat before who are all pumped up about the glory of it all.

"No leader should put troops into the field merely to gratify his own spleen; no leader should fight a battle simply out of pique. But a kingdom that has once been destroyed can never come again into being; nor can the dead ever be brought back to life. Hence the enlightened leader is heedful, and the good leader full of caution."
- Sun Tzu

[Adelante]

67. Please support stopIranWar.com

Write Congress
http://ga4.org/campaign/stopiranwar_congress

Write the Media
http://ga4.org/campaign/stopiranwar_lte

Write the Chimp-in-Chief
http://ga4.org/campaign/stopiranwar

Let's try to stop the third one from starting. Thanks.

[Theduckno2]

68. The Coalition of the "W" is getting SMALLER, SMAller, smaller...

It's been a tough week for "W" with the British withdrawal, Building 18 and now this.

[Devon77]

84. What happens to madman when they are cornered? n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

70. What if they gave a war and nobody came?

We may have the answer to that question at long last. :crazy:

[Truthiness Inspector]

71. Very interesting

Thanks for posting it.

[TankLV]

74. All the "wrong" persons are quitting or threatening such actions.

If all these GOOD people leave, we are soon left with only the fucking right wing christo-fascist fundy evangilical hypocritical repuke WAR CRIMINALS and their supporters.

That is NOT a good thing.

I would rather these good, courageous persons stay and fight the good fight and try to change some minds.

We can't leave the foxes guarding the hen house or in control of the hen house...

[wordpix]

79. Please sign the MoveOn PETITION to stop Iran escalation

This pResident is nothing but a dangerous moron. Please sign the petition

http://pol.moveon.org/pac/noescalationiniran/




With the war in Iraq raging out of control, Bush appears to be turning his sights toward neighboring Iran. We need to pursue diplomacy and let UN sanctions against Iran work, not widen the war in the Middle East. We need Congress to rein in the president.

"Congress should require the president to seek their authorization before taking military action in Iran."

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YOUR COMMENT TO CONGRESS

TO: Your Senators
CC: (Your Representative)
FROM: (Your Name and Email)
SUBJECT: Stop the President in Iran
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Dear Senators,

(Your personal note)

The president seems out of control in the Middle East. Congress should require him to seek their authorization before taking military action in Iran. Please act before it's too late.

[IWantAChange]

82. It's incredible to me to think of Pace and Gates being voices of reason vs. Chimpy/Cheney.

Pace has been anything but an independent thinker and voice for the military point of view and Gates - how quickly we can forget Iran-Contra.

One more thing - why do we have 2 obtain stories like this from FOREIGN PUBLICATIONS? where the 'F' is the American media????????????????????????????

[Bobbie Jo]

85. I hope the "revolt" continues

When Commander AWOL attempts to impose martial law when this whole thing explodes.

[DubyaSux]

86. Why this won't happen....

...Bush will not launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran. He will stay true to his word.

However, Israel will strike and we will join them as allies. "Problem" solved all the way around.

[Tom Rinaldo]

88. Israel can't do this without U.S. backing

The U.S. not only has to back Israel against Iran after such an attack, but the U.S. needs to actively line up tacit support from Sunni Arab nations in the Gulf in order to let this happen. In other words we the people can still act here at home to stop this.

I am sorry if people have seen the following message from me before on other threads but it is important enought that I am repeating it:

U.S. Vets are organizing to prevent war with Iran and they need all of our help to help spread the message. Please, if you have not already done so, visit http://www.stopiranwar.com / and join in the effort. New features are still being added to the site and the campaign is just starting. Right now you can leave your own recorded message at the site and/or sign petitions to your members or Congress and/or to the President. It also has software that sets it up for you to write letters to your local newspapers if you just fill in your zip code.

Most important though they are asking everyone to help spread the word across the net about this effort. The hour is late.

[DubyaSux]

95. Of course...

....Israel can't do it without our backing. That's my point. Israel will carry the intel/threat burden - Bush won't. He'll say that if our ally feels threatened and needed to prevent Iran's nuclear, that it's out duty to "help" them - which will be carrying the burden.

I'm not saying I like this - this just seems the most plausible.

[Tom Rinaldo]

96. It is very plausible, but that's why we can stop it here. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

89. I hate to say this folks... but if Gates is opposing war in Iran, I don't think it's in the cards.

Looks like we'll never know how close we might've come to attacking Iran.

[HardRocker05]

91. they should have done the same with the iraq war. nt

[LeftishBrit]

94. Good - that is at least a ray of hope

[bdamomma]

98. well I guess some generals live in the "real world" thank god.

[Patrick J Fitzgerald]

100. Patrick Fitzgerald Closing Argument Transcript

Cheney successfully ended Scooter Libby's career.

Official Transcript of Closing Arguments...

Mr. Fitzgerald: Good Afternoon.

The Jury: Good Afternoon.

Mr. Fitzgerald: Madness, outrageous, the Government brought a case about two phone calls with no corroberation, two witnesses, nothing to back it up and they just want us to speculate. The defense wishes that we were so.

Saying it, saying it loudly, saying it pounding the table doesn’t change the facts, doesn’t change the law and doesn’t change the evidence. Let’s talk about the facts. Let’s get busy.

Let’s look up there. Is this case about two reporters and two phone calls, that’s it, nothing? They wish it were so. This case is not a one-on-one he said/she said. It’s a he said, he said, she said, he said, he said, she said, he said, he said, she said, he said and the defendant made it up.

Each of these people talked about conversations. You’ve heard about conversations where they discussed Wilson’s wife. Is this world’s greatest coincidence that nine conversations with eight people, all misremembering the same way, that the defendant is talking about Joseph Wilson’s wife?


http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com/2007/02/fitz-closing-arguments-i.html

[Danger Mouse]

101. A fine gesture, but it will not stop Bush from having his war.

If we invade Iran, the consequences will be so catastrophic...I dare not even speak of them...

[Bucky]

102. I applaud their valor, but do remember that retired generals make 5 times their salaries....

as defense contractors, salesment for Northrup Drummond, and/or consultants advising lobbyists on what to say and who to contact. I don't doubt these officers' good will, but it's probably not a big sacrifice they're risking. No one in corporate America wants a war with Iran, so that's why it's not going to happen. Dumbass neocons keep thinking that they're calling the shots just because Texaco and Chase Manhatten let them work in the White House.

[confludemocrat]

104. You think Bush cares if they resign (which I doubt they will)?

why should he. Like they have stellar track record on Iraq that would be soiled by staying on for this possible bloody orgy cluster-fuck.