I'll be damned if Total Information Awareness isn't alive and kicking, and it's called Microsoft

[BelgianMadCow]

Here's the low tech version:

Yesterday, all of a sudden, Microsoft's Messenger no longer wanted to log on.
I had to open up my computer to outside scanning and yup, it logs on.

Some other lil Microsoft points:
- it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to remove either media player or internet explorer. I have tried so, have read forums about it, and as a 30 year-old semi-whiz "kid" I am not able to do it. Even when it looks uninstalled, it isn't. It stays active as some readily installed plug-in in other MS applications (such as messenger, of course).
- keep in mind that Internet Explorer records ALL files opened on your computer, even if they have NOTHING to do with the internet, or have never been opened with IE. What the FUCK?
- The log files kept in "application data" folders are HUGE. Have a look on your PC, in the documents and settings folder (but not only there).

Consider also that MS has an insane monopoly on the home PC market, is a prime example of a huge corporation, so tell me why they would NOT have been (allowing) spying etc like AT&T.

I have been suspicious for a long time, but now, there is no doubt left in my mind that Big Brother is fat and happy.

I am leaving MS behind to the fullest extent possible, and I'd recommend the same to all of you. However, that's not easy, and likely not an absolute guarantee either - absolute security means total isolation and I am not gonna be scared into that. I am going Linux nevertheless - got online quickly using Ubuntu.

So here's what happened in lingo:

I had the ports on one of 2 networked home PC's stealthed using the free COMODO firewall. They are behind a Linksys / CISCO router. Stealthed ports means outside programs cannot see which ports (like doors to your computer) are open, so this makes scanning impossible/harder. I never had any issue with that, except yesterday all of a sudden.

The "solve problems" option I got after clicking "detailed error report" gave an issue with "key ports" which is how I got onto the stealthing issue.

I could have defined a "trusted IP range" in COMODO, but did not want to do this.

I had to allow Skype to manage my firewall settings (huh !?!) before Messenger wanted to log on. What did Skype do? No clue...but opening the ports (and unstealthing them) is the likely thing.

The other PC has the same issues even if I never stealthed the ports on that one - it has Vista unfortunately and it's new and it SUCKS. This has to mean the stealthing on the other PC has effects at router level, not all that surprising I guess but I thought it strange. Doing the Skype trick on one PC allows Messenger logon on the other...

Using Trillian or GAIM Messenger under Ubuntu has the same issues. Again, proof of effect at router level.

I am puzzled to say the VERY least, and any feedback is most welcome.
As are recommends if you think others should see this.

Oh, and :hi: Agent Mike. FUCK YOU. :mad: (Sorry for my foul language, but I am way beyond pissed off)

[LynzM]

1. Oh yeah.

Get the heck away from MS... I'll admit to not totally understanding the details of your post, but I support your position anyway. :)

I'm running dual-boot w/Ubuntu and XP. I need XP to get to my work email, and to download audio books from my library. Other than that, I don't use it. I'm glad to be married to someone who could help get me set up and comfortable in Linux...

[madrchsod]

2. crap what`s the program that put ubuntu into a file?

i downloaded ubuntu using the program but i`m on this dam thing to many hours

[LynzM]

10. mmm, not sure?

Not sure what you're getting at... you want a bootable Ubuntu disc?

[madrchsod]

17. wubi

http://wubi-installer.org/

[Occulus]

28. I'm curious... why do you *need* XP to get your email and do a download?

Is there an external application involved for both of them? If so, have you tried installing/running them in Wine?

[BuyingThyme]

3. I think it's called FISA immunity.

[WritersBlock]

4. OT, but I'm still trying to overcome what the Comodo firewall did to my tablet PC.

You may as well go to Linux, cos you'll be hard pressed to ever get completely rid of that program anyway, or at least its tendrils. I hope you have better luck than I did with it if you ever see the need to try to remove it.

I'm glad I'm on a Mac now. :D

[BelgianMadCow]

8. dammit! on COMODO, and yes, tendrils.

I feared as much. And yup I'll consider Mac too. I'm a pretty hardcore gamer though, and on PC MS is expanding it's monopoly too (DX10 = VISTA hellllooooooooo).

And thank you for the word "tendrils" - it totally describes the begaviour I see in different programs.

[papau]

5. I was "understanding" until Ubuntu - there is no privacy issue on Ubuntu that I have

found. M$ does have privacy problems.

Are you saying messenger programs want a specific port? Or did you find a file that recorded all user activity, that could not be turned off, in Ubuntu?

[BelgianMadCow]

6. Messenger wants a port open and unstealthed

all of a sudden. The log files is another matter. Ubuntu is what I'm gonna use except probably for gaming. Even if I use Ubuntu, I have to unstealth my ports for Messenger logon (thru GAIM) to work.

Hope that clears some things up, I know my OP was kinda messy.

[tridim]

7. Messenger is always the first thing I disable. It's very easy.

I keep IE and WMP because I have to develop for them, but I don't mind because IMO they are the best at what they do. Unfortunately (fortunately for me) Firefox is starting to fall, look at the trends. Their CSS implementation is a horror show.

MS might be into TIA, but it would probably be a good idea to have some proof before making such a serious accusation.

[BelgianMadCow]

9. Well we disagree on WMP and IE, and I am very serious indeed.

I do agree though, the net is developed in such a way IE and WMP are good at what they do. Privacy however...hallelujah.
What would you consider proof positive? The unstealthing (and the fact it was NOT necessary before) did me in.

I use firefox indeed, but have no idea what's it like to develop for so you're the expert.

I knew some people were gonna say "of course" to my OP, and others "you're paranoid" or some version thereof.

And I have totally removed Messenger before, due to similar concerns. Guess I should try again. What do you use to connect to people using Messenger?

[tridim]

11. Everyone I know uses YIM.

Although it's probably not secure either. I always assume that nothing is secure unless it's heavily encrypted.

[Lance_Boyle]

13. "What do you use to connect to people using Messenger?"

A telephone, or email. There are precious few situations in which IM (*ANY* IM) is a legitimate business need.

IE, Messenger, and WMP can all be removed from the control panel --> add remove programs --> add/remove windows components. They can all also be explicitly blacklisted in most software firewalls to prevent them from opening or accepting outside connections.

Re: the sudden messenger connection issue - did you by any chance disable UPnP in your router last week following reports of a new vulnerability? Did your windows firewall exception settings related to UPnP change?

[BelgianMadCow]

16. Thanks, but

are you saying privacy is only relevant in a business context?

On removing IE, WMP, Messenger: I have tried removing IE and WMP like that. Then they are no longer visible in the program list, but still residing someplace else.

I have IE blacklisted, and WMP is not the std media file association. They are not gone, however.

Re: the issue on Messenger logon, your suggestion is valid, but I was changing nothing at the time. I did change the original PC from wireless to LAN and from static IP to DHCP about a week ago. Used Messenger succesfully up till now. :shrug:

[Lance_Boyle]

23. did you have ports forwarded for the old static IP?

Was the old static IP within your DHCP scope? If so, is it possible that your first DHCP-leased IP was identical to your old static IP, had a one-week lease period, and released/renewed to a different IP more recently, leaving behind port forwarding rules?

[BelgianMadCow]

24. Yeah, but not on a "one-week lease period" I have monthly bills.

And this is when I'm over-asked...sorry

[Lance_Boyle]

27. lease period refers to DHCP lease - the period of time

a given DHCP-assigned IP address is associated with a given MAC address. You would get the DHCP-assigned IP from your router, not from your ISP, and it would be in one of the private ranges (192.168.*.*).

[northzax]

20. sure it is

I have worked for several companies that have used IM as a form of internal communication. say you're on a conference call, and you need a file, NOW. you can IM someone and know immediately, not wait for email (which, if they don't read it immediately, could be a problem, right? or say "hey, can you come in please?" without interrupting your call. IM, when used well, is a great business tool.

[Lance_Boyle]

22. point taken, but

LAN-restricted messaging is a different topic than interwebs-at-large messaging. The former, as you correctly point out, has legit business uses (although I'd hate to see it implemented - I don't ever want to be that easily botherable!). The latter - no way any IM client on any LAN under my control would ever exchange packet number one with an outside machine.

[walldude]

12. LOL.. Yeah Microsoft just loves the government...

I mean the government only tried to break Microsoft up. This is not TIA. This is Microsoft doing their best to retain their monopoly and control over all aspects of PC operations. The government is afraid of Microsoft, not the other way around.

[BelgianMadCow]

14. I'd say they and their peers OWN the government. Who is really in charge?

Do you trust google for example, censoring in China but here as well?

[walldude]

15. I don't trust anyone...

[alfredo]

18. They were until Ashcroft got hold. He was a big recipient of MS largess.

The deal he cut was very MS friendly.

Bush was a Mac user until MS lobbyist Ralph Reed joined his campaign. MS and Enron paid Reed while he worked for bush. That's called a donation in kind. If it wasn't reported, it's violation of campaign laws.

[BelgianMadCow]

19. I didn't know

thanks! :-)

[alfredo]

21. The deal Ashcroft's people gave MS was better than MS had proposed.

It's been a few years, but I seem to remember bush wanted the gov to back off MS.

[BelgianMadCow]

25. Thanks for all the replies

into the fray kick on my way out

:hi:

[Pavulon]

26. You can run a PCAP

with wireshark and watch the data flowing on and off your system. Without going all nerd, about .net frameworks, and browser integration, I would suggest looking at what is talking.

netstat and other cli tools allow you to see who is listening and talking on specific ports. However this area keeps many engineers employed. TCP behavior in applications, like port randomization, can appear like a problem but is really normal.

In reality if someone wants to compromise your system or network and has the appropriate skillset, you will never know they were there.

[L. Coyote]

29. Just talked to Agent Mikie, He reports: "Bush Breaks His Pledge on Surveillance"

This is directly from the mouth of Agent Mike, so I really trust it. :rofl:

Bush is still spying on EVERYONE!

Bush Breaks His Pledge on Surveillance
http://harpers.org/archive/2007/05/horton-20070503isbn