Pentecostal Preacher Pledges Holy War Against GOP Senator

[marmar]

from AlterNet's PEEK:




Pentecostal Preacher Pledges Holy War Against GOP Senator

Posted by Steve Benen, The Carpetbagger Report at 6:14 AM on January 29, 2008.

Sen. Chuck Grassley recently asked six hyper-wealthy Pentecostal televangelists for their financial records, and they're not happy about it.




It hasn't generated a lot of headlines, but in the world of religion and politics, it's a pretty big deal. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, recently asked six high-profile, hyper-wealthy Pentecostal televangelists for their financial records, under the suspicion that they're using their ministries for personal gain. (Imagine that.)

Not surprisingly, most of the televangelists' ministries have been loath to cooperate with the inquiry. One in particular is pledging a holy war.

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) has gone after more than a few iconic nonprofits during his tenure atop the Finance Committee, including the Red Cross, Smithsonian and Harvard University.

But now the Finance ranking member and former chairman may have met his match: televangelist Kenneth Copeland of the sprawling Kenneth Copeland Ministries based in Newark, Texas.

In a Jan. 22 closed-circuit broadcast of his 2008 Ministers' Conference obtained by Roll Call, Copeland pledges a holy war against "Brother Grassley" and the Senate for attempting to get a look at the controversial ministry's finances. Grassley wrote a Nov. 6 letter to Copeland and five other prominent ministers requesting a variety of financial information.

"You render unto the government what belongs to the government. And you render unto God what belongs to God," Copeland loudly intones to approving murmurs from the crowd of 1,000 ministers and their guests.

Oh, the irony is rich. These TV preachers believe the separation of church and state is some kind of Satanic, communist plot to be rejected by decent people everywhere. That is, right up until a senator wonders if perhaps they're abusing their tax-exempt status, at which point the church-state wall is high and impregnable.

Now, I should note that, as a rule, I'm not inclined to have government officials poking around churches' books -- unless the church is receiving tax dollars or is suspected of wrongdoing. In this case, the latter applies.

Grassley contacted six ministries that has engaged in activities that certainly look like fraud. These tax-exempt ministries are required, by law, not to use donations from followers to enrich themselves, and there's considerable evidence that they've done just that. .....(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/75294/

[theredpen]

1. One nice change...

...is that the Repugs have been targeting only liberal churches for alleged church/state violations (none have yet to be found in violation).

It's about time they targeted the right-wing churches, which we all know are the really political entities.

[Le Taz Hot]

2. I know there are church people on this board. Could you

clarify something for me? Didn't Jesus command his followers NOT to take money? Did I get the wrong information in Sunday School?

[gratuitous]

7. On one mission

Jesus told his apostles to take nothing with them except basically the clothes on their backs, and to accept no compensation beyond their daily needs - a meal, a place to sleep. However, on other occasions and in other situations, the Bible contends that a worker is worth his wage. There are instances in the Acts of the Apostles where money is collected for the support of missionaries, and Paul in his epistles mentions more than once the necessity of contributing money for the support of the believers in Jerusalem and the workers in the field.

In my denomination, there was a contentious period not so very long ago during the transition from unpaid to paid clergy. Unsurprisingly, echoes continue to this day over just how much pastors should be paid and even if they should be paid. The attitude of a lot of congregants seems to be, "Lord, you keep our pastor humble, and we'll make sure he stays poor." I've never met anyone who went into the ministry dreaming of fabulous riches, but most of them dream of making a living, a dream that remains out of reach thanks to unrealistic extrapolations from Luke 9.

[Terran]

16. I'm no expert of course (having been raised a heathen), but...

"It is easier to drive a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." Something along those lines? or am I falsely ascribing that to Jesus? If it's correct, I don't see how these millionaires get around that.

[roguevalley]

28. they tend to reach back into the old testament and pull out quotes

about God promising people abundance and how Abraham and Noah were wealthy. They have to hunt for it because Jesus made it clear that all you needed was the clothes on your body and a bag to carry what else you owned. They are cranks, boobs and liars and make all the rest of us look bad.

[jmowreader]

31. A nice piece of Scriptural interpretation for your viewing pleasure...

http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2006/04/a-camel-through-the-eye-of-a-needle/

In the parable of which you speak, a rich man approached Jesus and asked what he must do to have eternal life. Jesus said to keep the Commandments. The rich man said he did. Apparently this pissed Jesus off to no end--NO ONE keeps the Commandments as well as Jesus would want them to!--so Jesus told him to sell all his shit, give the money away to the poor, and follow Christ, and then he would have eternal life.

It also appears that the "camel through the eye of a needle" thing is bullshit. In Greek:

kamelos = camel
kamilos = hawser--a large-diameter rope used for tying up ships

The pronunciation is the same for both words. Which makes more sense: trying to feed a pissed-off, ton-and-a-half animal through the eye of a needle, or trying to thread a needle with a length of two-inch rope?

[Virginia Dare]

10. Not a church person, but:

perhaps you refer to this:

Matthew 21:12

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

BTW, that was considered a terrorist act back then.

[0007]

17. The truth is only found in the 'Round Church'

[roguevalley]

27. what Jesus was doing, as I understand it, was clarifying what the

people were bound to do. He was telling them to pay their taxes. HA! Another point my brethren in simplicity have papered over. Jesus expected people to pay their taxes. "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's. Render unto God that which is God's."

Made him less than tight with the Zealots.

[gratuitous]

3. Hanh?

I thought people that hadn't done anything wrong didn't have anything to hide. Perhaps I was misinformed.

[SpiralHawk]

4. "But we're not going after diaper-wearing, hooker-boinking republicon deviants." - Preacher

"Because we take a very liberal (smirk) WIDE STANCE on republicon sex deviancy, like Sen. David Vitter (R) and Sen. Larry Craig (R), because they support our profiteering, plundering, and pontificating. Besides we admire their flair for occult republicon homelander chickenhawk cryptofascist closet-case kink. Smirk."

- Preacher Man

[patrice]

5. We'd also like to know who are on WH Visitor Logs 2000 - 2003. nt

[iamthebandfanman]

6. they only believe in seperation of church/state

when it benefits them...
where does the hypocracy end ?

[Meeker Morgan]

8. Going after "wealthy" Pentecostals?

All churches should pay taxes like any other business. Even liberal ones. Even "non-political" ones.

This is a politicized Evangelical religious dispute against Pentecostal "heretics". When it comes to money, Pentecostals are a drop in the bucket.

Let's see them go after billionaire phoney faith healer Pat Robertson.

Or assess real estate taxes on Saint Patrick's Cathedral.



Making them pay taxes like any other business would not violate separation of church and state.

If they don't like it, let them have prayer meetings in their living rooms and no one can say boo.

[roguevalley]

29. the Universalist Unitarians up here pay taxes even though they don't

have to.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. it is so odd to me that this should even be an issue for a church leader

I mean, an HONEST church leader. In our church, be it a tad smaller than the Copeland 'flock', all the finances are totally out in the open. I would think, verifying your tax free status should be a frequent requirement to prevent abuse. To quote a much vilified conservative, "Trust, but verify."

sP

[tanyev]

13. Would these fine people lie?

Televangelist couple at center of debt controversy

11:26 AM CDT on Wednesday, May 3, 2006
By BRETT SHIPP / WFAA-TV

Two of the most prominent faces in American televangelism, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland of Fort Worth, preach the gospel of financial prosperity.

But News Eight learned some former business associates are wondering why that gospel didn't apply to everyone in the flock.

The people who ran Affordable Homes Limited said it was just about to take off when the Copelands suddenly backed out and left tens of thousands of dollars of debt.

While limited partners like the Copelands have no financial obligation to pay the company's debts, the question being asked by creditors is how do the Copelands later pay $20 million in cash for a jet?
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa060502_mo_copelands.3436519.html

Before I ever knew who Kenneth Copeland was, I was channel surfing one day and came to a complete stop on his show. He was doing a Bible study with someone and it was supposed to be an informal setting, but I was mesmerized by the appearance of someone with an impeccably starched plaid shirt, chinos, helmet hair and demonic eyes leading a Bible study. Creepy.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

15. nawwwwwww...not them...

I don't see how people can look at people like this, and the secretive nature of every financial transaction, and feel comfortable giving them money...spooky stuff...if not stupid.

sP

[roguevalley]

30. he's the youtube fart preacher. :)

[ToughLuck]

11. Grassley not a bad guy

I believe Grassley is one of the few Republicans that actually supports whistle-blowers..and he may not get the legal backing to demand to see the records..its the coverage that may spur public debate about these lowlife groups claiming to cure folks and what they do with the money.

I actually have heard Pat Robertson and Benny Hinn offer healing through the TV..lol..apparently, you don't always have to show up at these meeting halls for a "cure." Now, it would be fair to ask these that claim to cure, to go down to the nearest hospital, and enter the burn unit..ok..go ahead, cure these folks right now..would be so easy to discredit them and send them off TV and on to jail for fraud..shame no one does it.

Go for it Grassley!!!

[Virginia Dare]

12. "Holy War" LOL!...

they worship at the church of the almighty dollar.

[L. Coyote]

14. Remember Ralph Reed, Falwell, Abramoff? There are strange connections in the R world!

And money flows from religious groups into R coffers, often in illegal ways.

[kineneb]

25. fascism... carrying a bible...

Fascism will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a Bible. ~ Sinclair Lewis 1935

[L. Coyote]

26. Religious fundamentalism is fascistic, theirs wrapped in praternalistic super stars

[lonestarnot]

18. Holy rollers roll'n in dough.

Faith based initiative to steal mo money. hmmmmmf. sick 'em.

[KharmaTrain]

19. They Need To Be Cut Down To Size Again...

A couple weeks ago, these bible belters were chirping about being kingmakers and flexing their "muscle" behind the Huckster. But what this election season has shown is how corrupt and bankrupt these people have become. They've long overestimated their own power and now are starting to rebel against their own "allies".

Religious broadcasting has been a sham and subvert GOOP propaganda outlet for years. They bought their ways onto the airwaves and found both power and wealth...and as long as it served the Repugnican party, it was only encouraged. But things began to unravel after the '04 elections and we're starting to see the "divorce" of these "allies". And in the case of the fundies, it's not gonna be pretty...that's because they not only are losing power within the country, but their own power bases as well. The Huckster's success scared the party establishment and if they can't control the money and the fundies, then they'll gladly destroy it.

OTOH...how can anyone not watch one of these charlatans and not question how they can live such opulent lives. Many will say these screetchers "deserve" it for whatver reason the person cares to give...and so be it. While its stupid for people to throw money at these goons, its their money and their right. Unless there's some fraud or ponzi scheme involved, these people give willingly and with knowledge. While you can legislate against fraud...and there are already laws on the books, you can't legislate against stupidity.

[Drifter]

20. Frank Zappa said it Best ...

Tax (the fuck out of) The Churches
Tax the Businesses owned by the Churches.

Cheers
Drifter

[opihimoimoi]

21. The GOD TAX CARD...OMG

[OffWithTheirHeads]

22. It's called Jihad nowadays. Holy war is sooo 14th century

nt

[Kansas Wyatt]

23. What's the big deal? If they are honest, then they have nothing to hide.

Really, why are they so upset, if they have nothing to hide?

[VP505]

24. I just saw an

little blurb on TV that, CBS News will do an investigative report tonight on Copeland.