In 1972 a philosophy professor put a .45 automatic Colt to my head and said ..

[DemoTex]

"Defend your existence!"

In retrospect, he was trying to jolt me out of a quasi-suicidal, post Vietnam funk. We were studying Kant at the time, and I had just submitted a required paper that said only" "I kant! I kant!"

He called me to his office for a consultation. Hence the gun-play episode, which changed my life. His too, probably.

I defended for two hours. Specious syllogisms from me got a cocked gun from him. Was he serious with the .45? I don't know. In the end, I said what he wanted to hear .. and it was, indeed, what I believed. The gun went into his desk drawer and the reefer came out.

Did I ever report him to university officials? No. Did I re-read and re-write the assignment on Kant? Yes. Did I clean up my post-Vietnam act and quit feeling sorry for myself? Yes.

I tell this story as a part of a collection I will tell over the next few days. Stream-of-consciousness (perhaps) leading into the 40th anniversary of the 1968 Tet Offensive (1/31/1968).

Mac

[lonestarnot]

1. Deeee ammmn.

[Critters2]

2. Wow. I used to bitch about my social ethics prof.

But Max never put a gun to my head. So there's that.

[alittlelark]

3. Wow... just WOW.

I would likely have a hard time dealing w/that situation...

What has the Prof. done since?

[Sabriel]

4. Why did I never have profs like that?

I'd like to hear more stories, if that one is any example.

And thanks for your service on this upcoming anniversary.

[The Magistrate]

5. Professional Philosopher, You Say, Sir....

Whoo-doggies....

[King Coal]

22. Why do you always say that "sir" and "madame" monkey business?

Don't you know that's insulting?

[The Magistrate]

24. If Your Highness Is Pleased

To try and side-track a thread both damed funny and deadly serious commenced by one of our forum's old originals, it is hardly a mere official's place to remonstrate....

[hootinholler]

45. ROFLMAO!

Your Highness. What I'd like to know is, how did you know he's high?

:shrug:

-Hoot

[Saboburns]

26. Insulting??

Why do you say it's insulting.

[dmr]

35. No, it is deferential regard.

I was raised to show appreciation or consideration to those I meet along the way. Though I don't use it here online, I do address my elders, and my youngers, and people in the stores and on the phone, for example, as "sir", "ma'am", or "miss"; just as I say "thank you", "please" and "you're welcome".

There was a time, way back when, when I thought it was stuffy, and maybe even a bit insincere. But, thankfully, I soon learned, that a show of friendly respect from one human being to another is actually very nice. The kindness is usually returned.
:)

[Hekate]

42. He does it because he is The Magistrate, Sir, and a Confucian when it comes to formality.

Or so I've gathered.

Do stay with the topic.

Hekate

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. Do not fuck with the Magistrate

The Magistrate is OG, and he can Sir and Madam to his hearts content.

Adds a bit of flavor and atmosphere to the board's what I say, and he's also a top-notch guy. You'll find that both assholes like me and the very best people on this board will defend him to the end. Just let it be.

[BoneDaddy]

56. Being the word police is insulting too

and "sir" and "madam" are only insulting to you.

[ProfessorGAC]

58. Insulting To Whom?

He's been doing it since he got here. No reasonable person is insulted by it.
The Professor

[RandomKoolzip]

61. Only if you interpret it as insulting.

Whatever tone you hear in your head when reading the Magistrate's posts is a filter created by your subconscious.

[Political Heretic]

75. It use to bug me too as a lurker, then I discovered Magistrate is awesome. :)

So just roll with it. :)

[ieoeja]

94. Me too. Most people doing that are just being smarmy and sarcastic.

I popped off at The Magistrate on more than one occasion because of it. But finally came to realize that he doesn't mean anything negative by it.

Though that whole "I ain't no 'sir', I work for a living" feeling is still there.

Also, vast majority of times I have been pulled over by a cop they get into that "call me sir" crap for which they can just bite me. Actually started laughing at the last one who pulled that shit on me. Cripes, you're twenty years younger than me and want ME to call YOU, "sir"? You seem to have that backwards, kid.

[LuckyLib]

6. I'm a university faculty member, and I do say, there are some weird folks in the business.

But that guy was certifiable -- in today's world you would be getting a large financial payoff from the University, and he would be in jail for terroristic threats.

[Iris]

66. well,yeah, because today's student would have called mommy on his cell phone,

then had a mulit-party grade negotiation before trying to sue the professor, the school, and the software company that created the software that caught him for plagiarism.

[LuckyLib]

76. Ha! You're so right. My colleagues who teach undergraduates have tales

about hearing from parents via phone or email. They all have standard "I don't talk to parents. Your child is an adult." responses to shut them down.

[AngryAmish]

88. Hopefully they will stay off your lawn, too.

[R_M]

84. Strange bunch on those campus's.

[gulliver]

7. They all do that.

Just be thankful you weren't studying Quine. No gun. Just Quine.

[annabanana]

34. lol!. . . n/t

[stranger81]

51. in that case, I'd ask for the gun [n/t]

[shrdlu]

8. More please...

[DemoTex]

23. No more to that story. Other than an "A" at the quarter's end.

My pre-Viet GPA (2.71) started it's upward climb here. Ended up near 3.75 from Georgia Tech a few years later!

[WilliamPitt]

9. Was he a vet?

[DemoTex]

16. No. He was not a vet. BTW: It was at Auburn.

He was young (late 20-s, early 30-s). Newly minted PhD. Very liberal (anti-Nixon, anti-war), but with no animosity toward me (I had just joined the VVAW on campus, and he knew that).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. I had a Staff Sergeant point a .45 at my head.

I was very drunk and informed him that I was going to break his "lifer" jaw if called the MP's. OAs he threatened to do if we didn't shut up). Fortunately, my two not-so-drunk friends dragged my stupid ass back to our barracks.

[tabasco]

73. I had a medic accidentally fire his .45 when he was cleaning it.

Bullet hit about one foot to my left. (Yes, it was an accident).

The kid barely knew how to disassemble the thing.

The medics got intensive .45 training after that.

[Lex]

11. Oh, that was you?

I shouldn't have been drinking so much that day.

[DemoTex]

18. No! Thanks!

Straightened my litle fucked-up ass totally up!

[Joe Fields]

12. Not exactly how you thought the consultation would go, huh?

[NNN0LHI]

13. I hate when that happens

Ruins my day.

Don

[TahitiNut]

14. Was he a Jesuit? (Sounds like one.)

I had the Jebbies for Philosophy ... sometimes I PRAYED for a loaded .45. 1969 was my "existential" year ... Sartres and Kierkegaard. (Yeow)

[DemoTex]

19. Nope. Just a fairly cool Alabama redneck at Auburn.

.

[scarletwoman]

15. That definitely qualifies as an event that leaves a life-long impression.

It seems to me that you responded in exactly the right spirit.

Very much looking forward to hearing more of your stories.

:loveya:
sw

[Yavin4]

17. Don't Waste That Story Here on DU

You should build a screenplay around it.

[DemoTex]

20. Damn good idea!

Funny, as a writer I have never though about that incident!

[Yavin4]

86. I'm Serious

That little scene could work well in a screenplay.

[UncleSepp]

57. What a great premise - DEFEND YOUR EXISTENCE!

Low budget, high concept... all the potential for fabulousness. :popcorn:

[Hardrada]

64. Christopher Walken as the prof.

[crispini]

90. SNORT!

:spray:

Too right!

[The Magistrate]

92. He Should Get The Role, Sir, No Question

[King Coal]

21. Cool. I'll be reading that.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

25. K & R.

:kick:

MKJ

[dysfunctional press]

27. was it loaded?

if the guy was smart enough to be a professor, i'm guessing it wasn't.

[slackmaster]

67. Rule #1: Every gun is always loaded

Rule #2: Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy

Rule #3: Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire

Rule #4: Be sure of your target and backdrop

[dysfunctional press]

72. i think there's also a rule about a professor putting a guns to a student's head...

and another one about how if you do so and the gun "accidentally" discharges, you still go to jail.

if the guy was willing to break the rule about the gun to the head, and was aware of the one about going to jail, i'm guessing that he'd be willing to break rules 1-4 too. if he was smart enough to be a professor, and all.

and regarding rule #1- i'm guessing that you've never packed your gun in your luggage for a ride on a commercial airplane, then...:shrug:

[slackmaster]

77. The rules I stated are for safe firearm handling

If you pick up a gun, you assume it is loaded and check it even if you are sure you were the last person to handle it, and you checked it last time.

Take a firearm safety class some time.

and regarding rule #1- i'm guessing that you've never packed your gun in your luggage for a ride on a commercial airplane, then...

Sure, many times. You have to leave the action open, or the gun disassembled, so airline people and TSA can readily check it without handling it.

[dysfunctional press]

78. well- you didn't specify that, now did you?

you simply said that rule #1 is that every gun is always loaded. and that obviously is not correct. and i really have no need/time/desire for a firearm safety class.

[slackmaster]

87. If you refuse to learn gun safety, you are potentially a part of the problem

Injuries and deaths due to gun "accidents" have been dropping steadily for over a century, largely because of private initiatives to teach people the rules. Those are very powerful rules BTW, you have to simultaneously violate at least two of them to precipitate an unintended discharge.

If you wish to be recalcitrant, I hope you also choose not to own any firearms.

[annabanana]

28. Please put your collection in your Journal so I don't miss any of it.

A stateside student during the offensive.. I knew the soldiers were not the bad guys..And there is a lot I don't know.

I don't want to miss any of your entries...

[DemoTex]

81. Done Anna!

Anything for you!

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

29. All I have to say is

I hope it was damned good reefer.

:evilgrin:

[Martin Eden]

30. What conversation did you have ...

... AFTER the reefer?

[Canuckistanian]

31. A little "tough philosophical love", eh?

Frankly, I think you were both nuts. But you both seemed to need it.

[lutefisk]

32. Damn...

:wow:

[MilesColtrane]

33. Sounds like he wanted to hear you give a Critique of Pure Insanity.

[Sanctified]

36. Don't you mean .45 semi-automatic Colt? n/t

[krispos42]

55. "automatic" as in "autoloading"

It's an old term, dating back about a hundred years. Used to differentiate between pistols and revolvers. Automatic ejection, automatic cocking, automatic reloading. But not automatic firing. Those are called "machine pistols".

Both terms are accurate in their own right.

[eridani]

37. Philosophy professors are a breed apart

The UW philosophy department had a fundraiser T-shirt reading "Philosphy! I'm in it for the monee!"

My favorite philosophy prof had the following as a final exam in Epistemology--

There are three umpires. The first says "I calls 'em like I sees 'em."

The second says "I calls 'em like they IS."

The third says "They ain't nothing UNTIL I calls 'em."

Discuss.

[The Magistrate]

54. That, Ma'am, Is A Thing Of Beauty....

[Neshanic]

38. Holy cow! You have a screenplay started there. Can't wait for your others.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

39. Real life... damn it was a kick-in-the-ass

Great story.

[knight_of_the_star]

40. Holy Gods!

and I thought Hoffman was a tough cookie!

[iamthebandfanman]

41. i woulda got shot. n/t

[burrowowl]

43. Don't make them like they used to or

they can't be like they used to be ...
Good story, would make a good film or play.
Looking forward to you story!

[Hekate]

44. Holy shit. Please do continue.

:wow:

Hekate

[Bozita]

46. Write those stories, DemoTex!

Can't wait to read 'em.

[DemoTex]

74. Stand by!

More coming.

[bluedawg12]

47. Syllogisms vs. a .45- sounds fair. n/t

[mrsteve]

48. Looking forward to you recounting your memories

I remember some posts you put up 4th of July a year or two ago. A compelling read indeed.

And hopefully for you the telling will dispel the last of any old demons.

Miss your aircraft pics in your sigs, though.

Steve

[lutefisk]

49. We only get issued a Glock 9mm; but we're a tier 3 institution...n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

52. There goes my major

in philosophy.

[BadGimp]

53. Sphincter Factor 9.85

I almost shat myself just reading your post. Fortunately it was just the turtle making a brief appearance.

New shorts and I'm 100%.

For once I'm glad I didn't go to college or Vietnam.

Thank you for your service fellow DU'er!

[joshcryer]

59. It took you two hours to defend your existance?

I would've said pull the fucking trigger if 6 words weren't enough.

[DemoTex]

70. You had to be there.

I was.

[Generic Other]

60. today he'd be given a psychiatric eval and a pink slip

Interesting teaching style. I think I will avoid imitating it.

[Cooley Hurd]

62. Holy Shit, Mac!

:wow:

And I thought I had it bad - I had a CFI that would punch the shit out of my arm if I fucked up an approach. I was bruised, but I got his point...;)

[DemoTex]

69. Military I/Ps (instructor pilots) would hit their students over the head with clipboards.

But the students always wore helmets. It never happened to me, but then again I was one of the proud few who made it through Army fixed-wing pilot training without ever getting a "pink slip" (I graduated #1 in my flight school class). The #2 guy in my flight school class got only one "pink slip." He got shot down and killed near Tuy Hoa in 1970.

[LoZoccolo]

63. Maybe it was loaded with those "bouncy bullets". n/t

[grantcart]

65. Do you still have his contact number

with all of these idiotic threads about handshakes I could use a session with this guy. Either I get better or he pulls the trigger but in any case no more f***ing threads about handshakes.

[conservdem]

68. Thank you for your service and for the interesting story.

Does this event show we should not take gun laws to far? Seriously, I think some gun laws have gone to far. (I do not own one and have never shot one, but I lived in MA for a long time and thought the gun laws there went to far).

[UTUSN]

71. The Deer Hunter wasn't out till '78/79, so it couldn't be copycatting that.

Otherwise, the implication was that this was a one time deal? Not that he did this crap with all or most or some of his students? Just a special relationship between somebody-in-need-of-a-follower (so he wouldn't be NIETZCHE) and somebody-needing-to-be-a-disciple?

Literally, he committed an assault, since you appear to have taken him seriously. At best it was an astoundingly stupid lack of judgment. Just "precious" in the sense of: "excessively refined : affected".

Perhaps the misguided inspiration (crediting this as a real life event) was the HITCHCOCK t.v. segment where the wife of gambling freak (Peter LORRE?) ungloved her hand to show missing digits in a chop-the-fingers-off game for a bet.

If the Third World is the bottom, or wherever the bottom is, life is cheap. At a certain decadent level, life is a game. For most people, it is neither.

[DemoTex]

79. Having just returned from an environment of extreme violence, I was an easy mark (perhaps).

I was an early star in the class. Age. Experience. Confidence.

Perhaps I threatened the professor by my presence. My VVAW (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) affiliation was well known. We were not a welcomed group on that conservative southern campus, but certain students .. especially those in a philosophy class and hippie chicks .. loved our ass.

He had used the "defend your existence" line in class, without the gun-play. But when he pulled the gun on ME, I thought one thing: I've been shot at and missed, and shot at and hit. WTF is this all about? However, I never once thought he might discharge the weapon. In my mind, at the time (and probably now too), the gun was a prop for his attempted mind-rape.

Fortunately, I'd spent some time in Viet Nam studying philosophy and Latin through correspondence courses from the University of Georgia. I was in shape, intellectually speaking!

You referenced the film The Deer Hunter. Not that it has any bearing on my experiences that I related here, but I just do not like that movie. I own it, and I occasionally watch it. But it is way too fake (snow-capped western Pennsylvania mountains? Viet Nam scenes?) to do anything for me. The boiler-maker, post-graveyard-shift bars seemed to be the most accurate scenes in the film.

[UTUSN]

89. Thanks for not taking offense & responding thoughtfully. I didn't intend offense to you.

I was reacting to the so-called prof's cheap stunt, which is a combo of practicing-psych-without-a-license and outright torture.

Yes, I sensed you were "a star" that the dude needed to gain dominance over. After all, we, who enlisted at the height when all around us were trying NOT to go, actually lived an existential challenge, while this "prof" was starring in his imaginary constructs. I really hope that dude departed teaching.


The relevance of Deer, to me, here, was the playing a life & death game with a gun, not that it, or almost any of the movies supposedly about Vietnam had any relevance to my Vietnam experience, either.


The helicopters ("choppers" to diehards) and the lights (flares, "smoking eyes" in one of my poems) in Apocalypse now had a certain ring for me, but not much else. The last line of the Michael FOX movie, where the Vietnamese girl in the U.S. tells him, "It's over now" was also a bit of a tugger.

[FlyingSquirrel]

80. Ah... one of my favorite Red Dwarf episodes

JUSTIFY YOUR EXISTENCE!

[The Inquisitive]

82. #1 reason why gun ownership should be mandatory

hehe, interesting story. Can't even begin to imagine the overwhelming wave of mixed emotions that must have stirred up.

[burrowowl]

83. When do we get the story?

[Blue_Tires]

85. this thread is gonna be stewing in the awesome sauce!

interested in hearing the next part...

[Iggo]

91. Had he done that to me....

...he'd've never made it to 1973.

[anamandujano]

93. Sounds like a spiritual teaching story. I can't remember

which discipline, could be Sufi.

Paraphrasing--a young follower was always hanging around his teacher, always depressed and looking for the meaning of life.

One day the teacher just cut off the follower's hand and said, "Spend more time with your sweetheart." And he did.

edit to add: Obviously the gun was the modern version.