Do you realize that you are living in a Fascist Country?

[messiah]

or do you not see it all around you?.

[paulk]

1. this isn't a fascist country

not by a long shot.

[messiah]

6. Friendly Facism but

fascism none the less.
There are Roman "Fasces" on the wall behind the Speaker's Podium US House of Representatives chamber, United States Capitol.
How clearer can it get than that besides the fact that fascist symbols are also on our money.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Having grown up in one what WAS... yes, yes it is

just because you don't have troops on the streets and people asking you for papers at every corner... oh wait, TSA is a good ways towards that. Read about the Nazi abuse of women who were also asked to drink their breast milk, for example

[nightrider767]

32. Nadin,,

On the mark as usual...

[Doctor_J]

25. Of course it is

The government reads our e-mails. The White House censors all the major media. More than 70% of the people want the Bush administration removed from power, yet they get everything they want. American citizens can be and are taken off the streets and sent to prison indefinitely without charges or counsel. We spend 200 billion dollars per year occupying Iraq, and yet can't afford to provide health care for almost 50 million of our citizens.

That's fascism, Paul

[paulk]

26. there are clearly forces that would wish a fascist state here

I believe they can and will be thwarted.

We are not there yet - and I believe that crying "fascism" is too much like crying wolf. Don't cheapen the word to the point where no one listens.

[elias7]

62. how would you label the fact that:

the media is complicit in failure to report the biggest scandal of the last 50 years, as reported by the UK Times this past month?
the telecom industry has funnelled all internet traffic through a big black vacuum box that drains into the federal govt computers?
And on and on.

How do you define fascism?

[paulk]

68. the obvious examples are Italy and Germany circa WW 2

My mother in law grew up in Mussolini's Italy... and we are not there yet. We are a long way from there, and I don't believe we will get there.

I would accept the argument, like I said, that there are fascist forces at work in this country. This is always true, no matter what country - if you define "fascism" as totalitarianism, along with the lack of freedoms and constitutional protections implied.

But it's one thing to call Bush/Cheney; et al, "fascists" - it's quite another, IMO, to call this country a "fascist state".

"Fascism" is a powerful word and I don't feel it should be used lightly.

[elias7]

81. Perhaps in a nuanced discussion you are right, but that is no comfort to me

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
by Dr. Lawrence Britt

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -

2. Disdain for
the Recognition of Human Rights -

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats
as a Unifying Cause -

4. Supremacy of the Military -

5. Rampant Sexism -

6. Controlled Mass Media -

7. Obsession with National Security -

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -

9. Corporate Power is Protected -

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -

14. Fraudulent Elections -

[gateley]

34. Well put, TOJ - sounds like fascism to me, too. nt

[rhett o rick]

36. Wow, what a compelling argument. nm

[0007]

40. One would have to be blind not to reconize fascism here in the

USA.

[mdmc]

43. Since we don't have concentration camps, but ain't fascist

oh wait, we do have camps.:shrug:

[glowing]

2. See the signs everywhere.. Just need my subsidized home now in

Nike town and hop on the McDonald's tram to get to my job.

[rzemanfl]

3. One has to look past the dogs and ponies, smoke and mirrors,

and such, but yeah. In my humble opinion it happened largely through subversion of the legal system rather than the media like most people think. There are plenty of assholes with law degrees who will sell their souls for a black robe and a fairly big paycheck.

[wildbilln864]

4. Yes! I do.

though it's soft fascism for now.l :banghead:

[Bright Eyes]

5. It's so pervasive, it's nearly invisible.

We're so used to goosestepping and mass rallies. Fascism has evolved; our perceptions of it haven't.

[cosmik debris]

7. Yep, the sky is falling

No, wait, it has already fallen. Oh my.

(Your knowledge of history and fascism is seriously deficient.)

[conscious evolution]

52. As a fellow student of history

with an emphasis on mid twentieth century history and the rise of fascism I must say the OP has a very good understanding of history and fascism.

But then again ,as a grieferbaiter,you probable knew that anyway.

[cosmik debris]

57. LOL! Your appeal to authority doesn't impress me.

Have you noticed that most of the posts on DU, and most of the news stories reported are about who will be our next President?

And you don't see that as inconsistent with the OP's hypothesis?

In fascism, there is no debate about who the next leader will be.

So, either you haven't been paying attention or you don't understand fascism.

Thanks for playing.

[Zodiak]

59. So you look at an election as your proof that fascism isn't here?

Is it any less fascism when you have to choose between pre-determined and vetted candidates that do not represent the people's interests over a majority of issues? Is it any less fascism when the media determines who people vote for more than the issues do? Is it any less fascism that our right to vote is seriously hampered by the machinations of those in power?

I would say that the way we conduct our elections is emblematic of fascism, not proof that fascism doesn't exist here. It is a dog and pony show that only ensures the same people continue to rule this country...don't be fooled by the dogs and the ponies.

[cosmik debris]

60. Woo woo to the nth degree. n/t

[conscious evolution]

61. I do understand fascism

precisely because I do pay attention.
If you had any kind of grasp of history you would remember that Hitler and Musolini were also elected to office.
No debate about the next President?Todays version of the fascist do not have to cancel elections.Instead they bought up the media so that they can insure that only the right candidates with the right visions are heard by the public.Then they took control of the actual mechanics of elections to ensure the right candidate wins.(When I say right i mean the idealogy that fits their agenda.)
When it comes to brownshirt goons I don't play.

[cosmik debris]

63. Perhaps you would point out which fascists voluntarily

stepped down and surrendered his power to another party?

Hitler? No.

Franco? No.

Mussolini? No.

Perhaps you would point out which fascists allowed vigorous debate and criticism of his policies?

Hitler? Franco? Mussolini? No, no, and no!

You should go back to Fascism 101 and re-read some of the basics of fascism.

[conscious evolution]

64. Ever heard of evolution?

Granted,I'm pretty sure you have but it is obvious that you have no concept of what it means.

[cosmik debris]

66. So you can't provide even the simplest proof

You can't show even ONE fascist who fits the situation in America today.

You have adequately demonstrated the lameness of your argument.

And I wasn't even through yet. I still wanted you to name a fascist who allowed an opposing political party to take over the legislative branch.

There is a difference between paranoia and reality. I hope you can grasp that concept better than you grasp the concept of fascism.

[conscious evolution]

67. You really don't know what evolution means do you?

:rofl:

[cosmik debris]

69. I know more about evolution than you know about fascism.

Perhaps you would offer your definition of fascism?

Or perhaps you will continue to say that we are a fascist country because of what we MIGHT (or might not) evolve into.

And perhaps you will learn the difference between present tense verbs and future tense verbs.

The more you post, the lamer you get. You still haven't offered an example to fit any of the conditions of fascism that I asked about. You just dodge the issues because you know you are wrong.

[conscious evolution]

70. Still don't get it do you?

:rofl: :rofl:

It is fascism that has evolved.

[cosmik debris]

71. Examples! I'm still waiting for examples. (you've got nothing)

One example of a fascist who allowed the opposition party to take over the legislative branch?

One example of a fascist who voluntarily stepped down from power?

One example of a fascist who allowed vigorous debate and criticism of his policies?

You've got nothing but smilies. You can't even define fascism, that's how little you know.

Maybe you should try google. It is an excellent source for beginners like you.

[conscious evolution]

72. Like I say

You still don't get it.
Or is it you do not WANT to get it.
The current bunch have realized that they cannot get away with the tactics used by by Hitler and Mussolini so they have changed their modus operandi to fit the current times.
Opposition Party.Ever hear the term DINO before?They have learned that the best way to destroy an idealogy or organization is to subvert it from within.

George HW Bush is a fascist who voluntarily stepped down.

Vigorous debate and critisisms has been allowed because it gives us little people a way to blow off steam.And they are trying to pass legislation to outlaw even that.Ever hear of HR 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Act of 2007?

As for my definition of Fascism this guy describes it best and is the definition I go with:
http://edmund-ng.blogspot.com/2007/08/fourteen-defining-characteristics-of.html

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Now lets hear what your definition of fascism is.

[cosmik debris]

75. Sorry, you still have nothing.

Your examples are just excuses and your definition is just a description. (I don't expect you to know the difference) Whats more your description is only vaguely reminiscent of the reality in America.

You are a waste of my time. You aren't even bright enough to entertain, much less challenge.

AMF.

[conscious evolution]

79. Thats all you got

Insults?
Thank you for providing such an excellant example of intelectual cowardism and grieferbaiting.

[warren pease]

80. Cognitive dissonance: It's not just for breakfast anymore...

Odd that you'd cite media obsession with the upcoming elections as evidence that we're just rolling in personal freedom. I'd argue that watching the media's evolving role in campaign and election coverage, and transcending neutrality by actually influencing the outcome, provides ample evidence of just the opposite. In maybe 50 years, they've completed the transition from reporters of objective fact to gatekeepers and promoters of official orthodoxy.

But even that wasn't enough to justify the huge sums of money corporate America has spent since 1996 to buy its own alternative universe. So in 2000 and 2004, they assumed a new activist role in determining the eventual "winner" by proclaiming a Bush victory out front; containing, suppressing or ridiculing all contrary information; then forcing the Gore camp to make its case with its credibility already undermined by the "infallibility" the public ascribes to the mighty media Wurlitzer. Goebbels and Bernays couldn't have done it any better.

The role of the "free press" as a check on the excesses of the rich and powerful -- which is what the founders had in mind when they ratified the First Amendment -- no longer exists except in small, local, independent papers, radio stations and community access TV.

Now, in its new role as champion of the status quo, PR firm for the aristocracy and official ministry of propaganda for the unholy marriage of right wing politicians and their corporate love-children, the "free press" is there at the outset of all major election campaigns to weed out any hint of progressive ideology, keep progressives muzzled and off camera and actively promote only the most vanilla, corporate-approved, useless degenerates of the bunch.

As you note, "In fascism, there is no debate about who the next leader will be." In sharp contrast, I suppose, to our free and open system in which all candidates enjoy public funding and equal media access and where mass media respects and accurately reports on every candidate's views on the issues.

One way to pick leaders in a fascist society is to physically, psychologically and spiritually intimidate people into accepting anyone who's shoved down their throats. Another is to limit their options to the finalists who represent the two factions of the Business Party. Just as in the other method, this keeps the status quo safe for another four years, this time by making sure there's only a superficial difference between the choices mass media has shoved down their throats. The outcome is the same; the second method is just slicker, less obviously totalitarian and doesn't tend to make people crazy, unproductive and useless as drones and debt slaves.

And if you actually believe that there's a lick of difference between Ms. Clinton and Mr. McCain or Mr. Romney when it comes to their unwavering commitment to corporate values and steadfast opposition to anything that might benefit actual humans at the expense of corporate profits, then I've got to assume that history and cognition aren't your strong suits. You might care to have a look at opensecrets.org and follow the dollars for a while. Better yet, have a look at Hillary's idea of health care reform.

Like it or not, we no longer live in a democratic republic based on Constitutional law, the will of the people and 220 years of legal precedent. There is no due process; there is no habeas; there is no right to counsel; there is no right to privacy; there is no right to speak your mind; there is no prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment; there is no right to a speedy trial by jury. (See my post #22 for details and links.)

This is the reality of America v2.0. Just because the enforcers aren't wearing black uniforms decorated with swastikas and lightening bolts and goose-stepping down the Unter den Linden; just because Leni Reifenstahl's granddaughter isn't filming the sequel to "Triumph of the Will" and the boxcars are still carrying freight; just because oppression is still partly concealed under a peeling veneer of liberty while most people flatly refuse to pay any fucking attention at all... Just because the jackboot has yet to kick in my door, I'm not naive enough to believe that it can't happen here.

I look at the massive power the executive branch has accumulated since 2001 -- with the complete complicity of congress and an uncritical mass media -- and I can only draw one conclusion: all the pieces are in place to lock down this country like a time vault. They're just not fully operational yet.

Maybe they never will be, although the overlords have gone through a hell of a lot of trouble to build a legal and physical infrastructure that can really serve only one purpose. The Cheneys of the world don't strike me as the type to do stuff like this just for fun.


wp

[Zodiak]

58. I was wondering when that word was going to be used here

And yes, it must be a "griefer" because I have that person on ignore. I pretty much only do that with dishonest arguers.

Some are just here to get a rise out of you by being contrarian...intelligent discussion is not in their agenda.

[conscious evolution]

65. The best defense

is to expose such rats for what they are.Only then can we call for Dominoes to deliver.

[GodlessBiker]

8. That's what the pro-life people say. We've murdered millions just like Nazi Germany.

Saying this country is fascist minimizes the horrors of true fascist countries.

When everything is blue, nothing is blue.

[messiah]

12. A Nazi is a Nazi a Fascist is a Fascist

see the difference?.

[GodlessBiker]

14. But a Nazi is a fascist.

Are you saying we are fascism lite?

Or are we as bad as Nazis...or worse?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. Nazism was a particularly extreme variety of fascism

You can be a fascist without being a Nazi, just like you can have the flu without getting pneumonia.

Until a coupe of decades ago, Spain and Portugal were fascist. Most of Latin America was fascist. Taiwan, South Korea, and Thailand were fascist. Burma still is. In all those countries, life looked/looks very normal on the surface.

[BB1]

47. But you HAVE murdered millions.

Take the victims of the wars of the latter part of the 20th century and add them all up. Millions and millions. They were not your neighbors, but does that make it any better? Or any less illegal or fascist?

We look upon our (Dutch) history and see we were slave traders, presumably the most effective traders in the world. We were a bunch of fascist, rascist and imperialist mf's. We know, that's why the Dutch, of all the people in the world, are the most generous in donations. We know, we remembered, and we care.
In a fascist country (with all the controlled media), you don't know the atrocities committed by your govt, therefor you can't remember, therefor you can't even pretend to care.

[Loge23]

9. The times they are a changin'

Clearly, we are living through what very closely resembles a fascist system.
As one Bright Eyes aptly noted, the perceptions of fascism have changed. It is no longer as pervasive, or obvious, as the 30's European-style but it is every bit as indictive of the philosphy of fascism - maybe now, even more so.
Corporate control, strong symbolizism, centralized power, and suppression and persecution of opposition - read Molly Ivins "Bill of Wrongs" for real examples.

[Lars39]

10. Link for those needing to catch up: Friendly Fascism...Bertram Goss

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Friendly_Fascism_BGross.html

[stimbox]

38. Yes, Friendly Fascism is recommended reading. It's here folks.

It just wears a smiley face.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. No. Know Why? Cause Of This Pesky Little Thing That's Always Buzzin Around, Called Reality.

And what you're seeing all around you is not fascism. It's likely pot smoke. Lots and lots of pot smoke.

[Bonobo]

21. Let's not be so dogmatic that we deny the "spirit" beyond the OP, ok?

Perhaps a better way to frame it would be:

Compared with 30 years ago, do you think that we have lost some of our civil liberties due to the cozy relationship between the govt. and the ever-unifying interests of massive global corporations -and that FEAR has been used as the primary tool in achieving this end?

How about that lame attempt at re-phrasing? Many can do better I am sure, but still... I think you would not completely deny what the poster is getting at OMC, even if you disagree with the way the OP said it,

[tabasco]

24. If he were surrounded by pot smoke

it is likely his door would get kicked in and he would be hauled off to jail.

More people in jail than any other country, proportionally and absolutely.

There's reality for you.

[mmonk]

48. Watch this OMC and Naomi Wolf will tell

what has happened about 8:40 into the interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b131iN3hOyk

[Two Americas]

13. close enough

A marriage of corporations and government, with ever more restrictions on civil liberties and increasing militarism.

Why do we even argue about this, I wonder?

Of course, there are no zeppelins in the sky with swastikas on them yet.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Thothmes]

17. Why is a building

shaped like a swastika, that is a question for the officials of the Johnson administration.

[davekriss]

18. Yes, a Musolini Corporatist fascist State

And we've been living in one for a long time.

The illusion of freedom in America will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.
--Frank Zappa, 1977

[donheld]

45. That's exactly what we have nt

[Bonobo]

19. Yes. It is a sliding scale, not black/white.

Compared to what America was 30 years ago, we have slipped much, much closer to fascism.

The examples are too numerous to deny.

[bicentennial_baby]

20. No, b/c we're not...

read up on the definitions, boyo... :eyes:

If you think this is fascism, you have no idea what the word means, truly...

[warren pease]

22. New, improved: It's fascism with a smirk...

BushCo and various compliant congresses, with both R and D majorities, have signed off on an ever-expanding list of repressive legislation, executive orders and presidential directives; massive federal invasions of privacy regarding medical and http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/23/washington/23intel.html?ex=1308715200&en=168d69d26685c26c&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss">financial records; monitoring US citizens' electronic communications; re-targeting spy satellites for domestic surveillance; the TSA cavity search specialists (for attractive young women only; the rest are presumed to pose no threat to the state); no-fly and terrorist watch lists; Halliburton/KBR's detention camps; RFIDs in all new passports and the new national ID cards scheduled to be issued later this year; new TSA "behavior detection officers" to spot those who don't "look quite right;" all this wonderful new stuff from the DHS; private armies featuring mercenaries from companies like Blackwater and SAIC springing up like mushrooms after a light rain... All that and the Patriot Act, the http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/commissions.html">Military Commissions Act, http://www.aclu.org/safefree/extraordinaryrendition/22203res20051206.html">extraordinary rendition (whatever the hell that means) and torture, too. (Note: the torture link is graphic and disgusting.)

But most people would call you insane if you tried to connect these dots in a way that pointed toward governmental malevolence. Can't happen here, they say.


wp

[Jed Dilligan]

23. Anyone who's been homeless knows

what it feels like to be rounded up by the stormtroopers. We've been headed down this path for decades now.

[Swamp Rat]

27. yep

[Jed Dilligan]

30. My friend said the same thing about his quantitative methods

after we gave a conference paper together.

"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

[smalll]

28. But where's the snazzy uniforms? The kick-ass knee high boots?

The jodpurs? The sharp haircuts? The Nurenberg Rallies? If this is Fascism, it's fascism with an aesthetic deficit: a scruffy fascism indeed!

[nightrider767]

33. Check the military....

Our nations biggest employer.

[Occam Bandage]

29. Yes. But then again, I'm posting though a time-warp from Italy in 1936.

[davekriss]

31. This is fascist country

In Mussolini's definition, the marriage of corporate and state power to further the interests of the substantial people.

[Mind_your_head]

35. Yes.....

.....how many people will need to learn by experience what that truly means?

Ah, we're :tinfoilhat:, right? :sarcasm:

[D23MIURG23]

37. To paraphrase Naomi Klein on a recent interview...

It isn't so fascist that we can't still fight and attempt to improve the situation. That is the most important part.

Squabbles over the definition of fascism are meaningless, and aren't going to accomplish anything.

[AntiFascist]

46. Excellent point...

it's also important to keep in mind the political spectrum from left to right. No matter what kind of crazy propaganda the right-wing wackos are trying to push, always keep in mind that fascism is to the extreme right what communism is to the extreme left. Historically, fascist or (at least) extreme right-wing programs have always battled communism, hence they are often identified as 'anti-communist'. This is why our nation became so heavily involved in it, particularly in our intelligence activities, when we took up where Hitler left off in the fight against Soviet communism. Being anti-fascist does not make one a communist by any means, since there is the normally more narrow political range from left to right that our nation must eventually return to.

[Vincardog]

39. YES I see it all around me.

[Kip Humphrey]

41. Seems like this is most appropriate to this thread...

[Oeditpus Rex]

42. Why, no — no, I don't

I realize I live in a country in which elements of fascism are sometimes executed, but to extend that to the belief that this is a fascist nation is, I think, to fit oneself for a suit made of pie plates.

Frankly, I long ago had quite enough of "scare" posts such as this. Criticize America all you want — but, goddammit, be truthful and realistic about it.

[RuleOfNah]

44. Unevenly distributed.

I see lumps of fascism from time to time. Now more or less? I don't know, lumps have been there my entire life. There are people, places and things I have learned to avoid and their number seems to be increasing. Perhaps that is due to the bozo rodeo forcing me to pay closer attention to those that don't.

In the context of the Frank Zappa quote; more people seemed to be worried about being there when the brick wall hits. Kind of like Global Climate Change.

[mmonk]

49. A coup has occurred.

Listen to Naomi about 8:40 into the interview with Amy Goodman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b131iN3hOyk

[Echo In Light]

50. Never underestimate the power of denial

The thing is here, people's deductive reasoning skills are impacted and shaped through the prevailing cultural ideologies, and naturally being truthful regarding the social systems we create and abide, directly and indirectly, isn't - and has never been - popular.

A byproduct of the corporate mentality is to reduce complex variables to easy to digest platitudes. Hence, if we live in a "democracy," irrespective of how frightfully weak our model is in both theory and practice, then there of course cannot be fascist elements involved ... because authority says so.

[mnhtnbb]

51. I read Naomi Wolf's book, "The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot"

and highly recommend it. Be prepared to be depressed when confronting the reality of what has happened in this country. People don't want to deal with the truth, which is why there is so much denial. It's just too damned uncomfortable. What are you going to DO about it?

[taterguy]

53. If it was truly fascist would you be able to make your OP?

[treestar]

54. Old-style, no

New-style, they can afford to let the OP go.

Bushco claims they can detain you incognito for an indefinite period whenever they want. Just because they haven't done it thus far doesn't mean they can't and won't if they find it necessary. All they have to do is make the accusation "terrorist." They don't need any grounds for it.

[Echo In Light]

73. Exactly. The totalitarian infrastructure isn't in place sans intentions of using it more overtly

[taterguy]

83. If a frog had wings he wouldn't go bumpity bump on his ass

[LWolf]

55. Yes.

Do you realize that current Dem leadership is enabling that fascism?

[Swamp Rat]

74. How can you call it fascist when we have so many cereals from which to choose?!

:D

[killbotfactory]

76. We have the highest incarceration rate in the civilized world

We start illegal wars, we torture, we have "terrorist watch lists" with thousands of people on them.

We can say what the hell we want only because we are so powerless to stop any of this.

But we have access to endless amounts of entertainment, shiny gadgets, and shitty food to waste money on, so, you know, it's all good.

[frogmarch]

77. The signs are definitely all around us.

After reading Naomi Wolf's book, The End of America, I'm acutely aware of them.

[zorahopkins]

78. I've Realized It For A Very Long Time

I realized it some time ago that I live in a Fascist Country.

I saw the reaction right after 9/11, and I knew that fascism was not far behind.

And over hte past 7 years, I have seen a relentless push towards even greater fascism.

I only hope the next election can begin to undo the fascism that is currently so very strong.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

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[Fierce]

84. No. Because I'm not.

And it's insulting to insinuate otherwise.