Why do you think conservative Xians and fundies hate homosexuals so much?

[raccoon]

Is it just that they need somebody to hate, and it's no longer PC to pick on an ethnic group (except Muslims)?

Is it that homosexuals are a threat to patriarchy? I'll go with that one.

Other?

[displacedtexan]

1. Nice gay people make easy targets for fundraisers.

Let's face it: Have you ever known a mean gay person?

I haven't. Every gay person I know is compassionate to the
point of saintliness.

Fundies don't want to get to know gay people as individuals, either. If they did,
their fundraising efforts would tank. Big time.

Just my personal observations.

[xchrom]

5. i must say fundies are big on dollars for jesus.

[xfundy]

22. If Jesus saves...

...why is he always asking for money?

[Echo In Light]

40. No, it's not the fault of that righteous social malcontent, but those who believe for wrong reasons

[conscious evolution]

55. Jesus saves -Buddha invests

Jesus needs a new financial advisor.

[begin_within]

13. I have. People's personalities are not dependent on their sexual orientation.

[Flarney]

2. They hate themselves. n/t

[eShirl]

3. their leaders have to get them whipped-up about something

and keep them whipped up

[Rob H.]

4. I think it's the RW fundagelicals' crazy belief

that someone, somewhere cares about who they fall in love and have sex with and is just waiting to punish them if they have anything but lights-off, missionary position, vanilla sex with a person of the opposite sex whether they really want to or not. Apparently the God they believe in is a jealous Peeping Tom with nothing better to do with his time.

[thereismore]

6. I think it's the first one (racism is out, so let's hate gays), plus they have a biblical text

to give them cover. Leviticus.

[xchrom]

7. it's about power and control.

and just about the easiest way to control someone is to get ahold of their genitals.

[Tarc]

8. Because a 2,000 year-old book written by wandering sheepherders tells them to

[Arugula Latte]

31. Amazing people put so much stock in a collection of fairy tales written by

people who had no idea the Earth is round, isn't it?

[NewJeffCT]

9. It's not politically correct to hate black & brown people now

so, gays are what is left.

[I work for workers]

10. I don't think they even know.

I have a friend who, to borrow a third friend's description, isn't homophobic... he's homo-terrified. I've asked him why a few times, and he never seems to have a clear answer. He usually breaks out some weird Victorian sounding language (last time it was "deviant fairies") to express his disgust about man on man sex. Then he will talk about wanting to do his girlfriend up the butt or some hot girl on girl porn. I really don't get it, and I don't think he does either.

On every other subject, he's very smart and articulate. He's not even a fundie, and he couldn't really care about gay marriage/equality issues. He just has some inexpressible dislike of male gays.

[Beer Snob-50]

12. I think your friend doesn't really dislike male gays

but is actually just afraid of them. actually afraid that maybe one will come on to him (because well,we all know that they want to make all of us gay! (sarcasm))and he will actually like it.

for men, girl on girl is not threatening thus it is acceptable.

[Echo In Light]

15. Non threatening = porn driven ideals, adopted by mainstream corporate America

[MotorCityMan]

30. I think of it as the "Ick" Factor

In my experience, some straight men are grossed out by the idea of two men together sexually. They just can't believe that other men's sexual desires differ from their own. Just seeing two guys kiss can make them queasy.

Of course, two women together (the Cinemax, soft-core, variety; not REAL lesbians) is fine.

[Echo In Light]

11. Homophobia is rooted in misogyny. They tend to "project:" impute to others what they are guilty of

[Rosemary2205]

14. Fear

The power elite use it to control the masses, and brainwashing works on many. Spend a lifetime telling them their difficulties in life are because Gawd is punishing America for allowing homos, or blacks or women to fully participate and they'll believe it.

[Echo In Light]

16. Chomsky quote:

"The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people."

[bluedawg12]

21. The RW needed social issues to glue together

their coalition.

They were based on cold war anti-soviet, strong military, low taxes, small government and pro-business attitudes.

That wasn't quite enough to win and control government.

So, they cobbled together social issues:

pro-gun, pro-religion, anti-gay, anti-feminist, anti-choice and then they used this as a populist message to win people over who weren't for the other bigger prime issues--and it worked.

They have been gay baiting for decades. It's now a knee jerk reaction among their base.

That is how bigotry works- you dehumanize the victim, scapegoat and attribute social ills and dangers to them and pretty soon people believe the stereotypes with out critical thinking.

It worked in pre-WWII Germany and it worked with Jim Crow.

It is hard to fight because it is irrational- no matter how many times you point out that gay marriage has no impact on married men and women- they still fall for the defense of marriage bull.

Also, people are a little nasty. Some like to feel superior about others and they feel better about their dry, cracked, lifeless, soulless, existence if they can denigrate others.

[DemGa]

17. They are thinking about themselves

That's what most people think about most of the time. So it's clear -- they are in denial, and hate themselves as a reaction.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. they operate out of fear and close mindedness

would be my guess. My two co-workers, neither of whom attend church (and are actually anti-fundamentalist) both say gays should be able to live their lives with the same rights as everyone else. They are both native Arkansans, too, neither of them ever having lived anywhere but the small towns in this area.

[Orsino]

19. They want "male" synonymous with "manly"...

...and "manly" synonymous with "strong." The existence of even one gay man is a threat to the well-known conservative sense of entitlement. The pinheads now think they have to prove themselves every waking hour, especially if they have any hidden doubts about their orientation.

[Echo In Light]

20. Inordinate glorification of machismo = disdain for genuine feminine power

Either gender encompasses both energies...as well as used for positive or negative ends.

[bluedawg12]

23. The RW is about patriarchy-

There are female RW leaders- but they seem to be in subordinate, cheerleading positions.

That's why RW women apologists like to attack and distort feminism.

They play off fears that feminists hate men, hate family, they never admit that feminists also decry the sexploitation of women, want to raise kids in a safe family and safe world, that women want a fair chance at the open market and free enterprise--it's about distorting the message to play on primal fears.

"How dare women over throw Daddy?" LOL

[I work for workers]

25. The thing is, I know plenty of straight guys

that don't fit the traditional "manly" billing, and a few gay guys who do. If we are going with the traditional good at sports, in good shape, likes to shoot stuff stereotypes vs the I use product in my hair and shop at Express for Men stereotype then I know guys of every sexuality who are "manly" or "effeminate". The vast majority don't fit squarely into either side.

I doubt a lot of backwoods cons are hanging out with as many metrosexuals as I am, so maybe it's just fear of the unknown. Then again, I know some homophobes who are, so I guess I'm back to thinking they don't even know themselves.

[Orsino]

35. Yeah, the cover of being straight means they can relax a bit.

It's the sense of entitlement again that forces the real bigots to take umbrage.

[Marrah_G]

24. Because they are conditioned to see sex as bad and different sexual behaviors as "perversions"

It all goes back to the need for these large religions to control the lives of others. You are fighting 2000 years of power and tradition. Yes, many people in these faiths have changed their minds, but it may take a while to see a change in the top of these organizations.

[IndianaJones]

26. kind of a cop out question, imho. nt.

[raccoon]

27. OK, I'll bite. What's that supposed to mean? nt

[IndianaJones]

32. I just don't think its a major issue. There are much harder questions that need to be asked.

Again, this is my own opinion.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. A couple of takes on it...

Ethnic minority substitutes yes, for sure. In terms of the religion, I think the gay emphasis allows them to ignore the rules set up for straights to follow in regard to sex. Leviticus has thousands of sex laws for hetros! Jesus says divorce is very bad indeed. They do not follow any of the rules set for them to follow at all about sex, not to mention money and social justice. They like to pretend that Christianity has two rules, no gays, no abortions. That way they can continue cheating others, having affairs, scorning the poor, because all that matters is abortion and gay sex. Do unto others is way too hard for them.

[MedleyMisty]

29. Prejudiced conforming authoritarian personalities

with needs for strict gender roles and a scapegoat.

So, as with almost all dichotomies, the answer to the OP is both. Or all, because Other is also an answer - heh, as in other answers and as in the need for an "Other" to hate.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

33. Because the Bible tells them to, not for any psycological reason.

It's not some covert psycological flaw that makes conservatives disapprove of homosexuality, it's that the Bible tells them to.

If, like many conservatives, you believe that the Bible is a source of moral authority, and (unlike most liberal Christians) you're not willing to reverse-engineer your religion to throw away the bits you don't like, then regarding homosexuality as a sin is pretty much inevitable.

[Jed Dilligan]

38. So then why aren't they mounting massive public campaigns

against perjurers?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

39. They are.

Perjury is a criminal offence. That *is* a massive public campaing against perjury.

On a psycological level, I note that the issues that attract the most interest are the ones people disagree about - take a look in the Israel/Palestine, Guns, Primaries, Religion & Theology etc subforums on DU. One reason (probably not theo only reason) that conservatives devote more energy & more emotional involvement to opposition to gay rights and abortion than to perjury is that there is no-one is campaigning *for* perjury or perjurors.

[Jed Dilligan]

42. No one except every politician in power right now. nt

[Echo In Light]

41. Still psych factors determining what/how people choose to "believe" & adhere

[Donald Ian Rankin]

44. Largely nurture not nature, I suspect.

The correlation between parents' beliefs and children's beliefs isn't 100%, but it's pretty strong.

[Echo In Light]

45. Sure, although experience alone doesn't determine our choices/actions

We'd be rather impoverished creatures were that the case.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

50. All I can say to that is "maybe".

I'm one of the last of the die-hard Laplacian determinists. It looks as though the physics may not work that way after all, and that identical situations may sometimes have different results due to the randomness in quantum physics, but that seems so counter-intuitive that I haven't given up hope that it's not true.

Either way, I don't think that makes us impoverished. It just highlights that we don't really understand what we mean when we talk about "free will".

[mwb970]

34. They're afraid.

To me, fear is the common denominator linking the worst of the inhuman, anti-American positions taken by conservatives and religious zealots.

They are afraid of gays because they are afraid of anything having to do with sex. They're also afraid of women. They're afraid of the "War On Christmas". They're afraid of "Islamofascists". They're afraid of the present. They're afraid of the future.

They're even afraid of Hillary, for God's sake!

It's all fear now. America: the land of the free and the home of the brave? Ha. More like the land of the Patriot Act and the home of the bedwetters.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. Insecurity with their own sexual identity.

Insecurity becomes fear. Fear becomes hate.

[Jed Dilligan]

37. I've come to the conclusion that all their beliefs boil down to this:

Non-consensual sex is a GOOD thing, and there should be LOTS of it.

Whether it's gay people forced into straight marriage, male prisoners being raped for lifestyle crimes, everyday young female rape victims being shamed into clamming up, or clergy fucking innocent children... That's what they want, love, need, and desire.

They are not happy unless someone is being raped.

[Karenina]

46. Ya know, JD...

When you put it like that... I'd add Or women being required to "submit" and boys' ideas of sex, love, dominance and submission being contaminated by violence; file under "Things That Make Ya Go HMMM..."

[Echo In Light]

47. It's frightening to see so many young women on board with the assimilation

Disappointing that young men fall prey to that degree of cultural influence ... but it always makes me wonder how/why more young women don't see it for what it is. With decreased societal awareness, plenty of poison jive becomes accepted as "normal," "traditional," "inevitable."

[krispos42]

43. They have a shitty sex life

They figure that gay sex must be hella-hot, ultra-erotic, and super-satifying, or the gays would have given up and turned back straight.

But they can't face becoming victims of their own brand of hatred. They become enraged and jealous that they can't have the presumebly hot gay sex, but are stuck with a prim and proper Christian lover that doesn't believe in foreplay or accessories or, indeed, even that sex should be enjoyed. So they start hanging out in same-sex bathroom stalls while venting their anti-gay jealously out to the Klan and other primitives.





George Lakoff also has his theory that it's against the "strict father model" of society. It's a good one, too, which I think gives an intellectual, studious support to basic jealously.

[1awake]

48. I'll tell on myself..

I honestly do not completely understand the attraction of homosexuality. When I was a teenager, I wasn't "grossed out" by it, nor did I feel it was per say wrong.. just didn't understand it. Also, it was not the norm, and rarely seen where I grew up which made it more of.. I guess an oddity. And as I stated, I still don't fully understand it, but I think thats really irrelevant. What is the harm in it? If two people want to be with each other, or love each other, or whatever in between.. how does that become my business? Beyond that, if two people want to commit to each other and be married, what difference does it make either way. Heterosexuals have been screwing up marriage for years now.. maybe others can do a better job. ;)

I am a Christian, and I must say that it embarrasses me to no end when some of my "fellow believers" stand up and make such uneducated-dumbass statements about it being a sin, etc. Whether it is or it isn't, the bible says we ALL are in sin, and no sin is greater than another. So to me, it is the height of arrogance for them to make the stupid stands that they do. Homosexuality should be a non-issue. I can't believe its 2008 and we as a country are still debating this. I think it is all smoke and mirrors in the end. Divide and conquer.. control of the.. not stupid, but uneducated. What we do not know, we fear. The current administration with all it's ineptness, was very good at this.

I think I'm ranting, so to keep myself from looking totally stupid, I'll stop.

[notundecided]

49. It's there own latent homosexuality that they hate.

[fascisthunter]

51. Because Neither of Them Have the Guts to Live Their Lives Honestly

anyone who tries is a reminder of their own weaknesses.

[JerseygirlCT]

52. For most, it's something they've never encountered

(not that they'd admit). They don't have openly gay folks in their circle of friends, in their church community. Gay folk make a good "other".

What they don't understand, they fear. And since they've constructed and sold a warped theological construct for their bigotry, they get to claim that they're not only pushing off that fear of the unknown, they're doing it for God.

Absurd, but I think that's it. And I think education and exposure and experience are the cures. It's much harder to hate when you keep meeting these nice people who happen to be gay. But it will take time with people in whom this is deeply entrenched.

I have lots of optimism with younger generations, though. This is so not an issue with the teens I know.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. Two possibilities come to mind

1. A lot of people become fundamentalists because they are conflicted over their own feelings. Some guy who's been raised to be a macho-macho man finds himself attracted to other men, and he hates himself for it. He projects--blames gay men for "tempting" him. (Heterosexual leches blame women for "tempting" them.) He sees "out" gay men, and since he is suppressing his own homosexual attractions--and would never talk about such things frankly with other men--he assumes that out gay men made a conscious choice to be gay. He doesn't find out that other men have always been attracted only to males or only to females from an early age. He's thinking, "Here I am doing my damnedest to suppress these powerful urges and forcing myself to act straight, and those guys are just CHOOSING to be 'immoral.'" So there's some self-hatred going on.

Meanwhile, others who lack these conflicted feelings are being told that gay men and lesbians are out to "recruit" their children. They're naive enough to believe it.

2. I heard Karen Armstrong, noted British writer on religious topics, speak in Portland a few years ago. Her theory is that fundamentalism appeals most to people who have been hurt by the modern world. I think that some people are suffering from acute future shock and don't know how they fit into the contemporary world economically, politically, or socially. They dream of a mythical Good Old Days, when everything was sweet and innocent like Leave It to Beaver (or whatever the equivalent nostalgia is in their society). Part of the mythology of the Good Old Days is that no one ever had sex outside of heterosexual marriage. (I'm here to tell you from recollections of whispered conversations among grown-ups that people were indeed having sex outside of heterosexual marriage, but anyway...) "Out" GLBT people are seen as the most obvious challenge to this Good Old Days view of life.

[applegrove]

54. They needed to have someone to hate so they would "clot"'and

vote conservative and become a movement. It had to be a group that was seeking equal rights. It had to be a liberal group they attack. It had to be a group that didn't yet have full rights.

[KitchenWitch]

56. My guess is that they are afraid of the latent homosexuality in themselves.

[annabanana]

57. I think that's best bet.. . that and supression of the latent. . .n/t

[Booster]

58. More than likely, those who claim to hate homosexuals have

participated in homosexual activities themselves, or have had fantasies about it, and that frightens them, so they think if they hate them it will hide what they are feeling.

[Marr]

59. I think there are a few reasons.

There's a big sociological element to it, I think. Our culture portrays gay men as effeminate. There's a certain hatred of the feminine that runs through our culture as well, and it makes gays (especially gay males) sort of "free targets".

You've also got a fair amount of Ted Haggard types. People who are repulsed by their own urges, and unable to even accept the fact that they have such urges. They externalize the things they hate about themselves, and turn it into an "other" they can attack.

Also, and maybe most importantly, hate groups always promote the notion that they are under siege. The Nazis believed they were under siege by "world Jewry", for instance-- even as they were shoving them into ovens. They run on paranoia. Some fundamentalist churches are, I think, comparable to hate groups, and gays are just one group they've decided is besieging them.