Breaking Away: VERY IMPORTANT analysis about IT jobs on Edwards's website...

[Triana]

Read it and weep - and for God's sake VOTE.

http://blog.johnedwards.com/story/2008/1/20/1046/67753

EDIT to add a few paragraphs:

Taking a serious position for workers, even 500,000 US engineers trying keep jobs are going to stay right here in the USA is sadly risky business, even for Democratic candidates.

John has taken the position that he will not be beholding to corporations, but Hillary and Bill have taken millions from the IT industry, Hillary proposes expanding the number of H-1B visas issued, and thus replacing the 600,000 middle class engineers who have not yet lost their jobs, with low wage workers from China and India. With 50% of all the degreed IT engineers in the USA already immigrant workers, Hillary as recently said more workers is about "innovation"; ie, workers from India and China are more innovative than US citizens, or as it has been put, "Johnny can't do math." Hillary's answer is to issue more H-1B visas and push the education button, which she knows will not start for 15 years.

Either Hillary (and John McClain, who sings the same song), are woefully ignorant of the facts, or their dependance on corporate funding inoculates them against understanding what is happening.

John is our best, and maybe only, hope to protect industry in the USA.

MORE...

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nonconformist]

4. Hmmm... no profile, registered today, and EVERY post has just been "lol".

Enjoy your stay. :hi:

[Skittles]

5. he's a CLOWN, nc

a TROLL CLOWN

[smokey nj]

7. He's a Trown!!

[Skittles]

9. or a CLOWT!!!

yes INDEED!!!

[OhioChick]

8. Troll Clown?

:rofl:

Made a few more "lol" posts, I see.

:popcorn:

[Skittles]

10. HE'S DONE NOTHING BUT LAUGH SINCE HE GOT HERE

YOU KNOW HE'S WEARING BIG SHOES :rofl:

[smokey nj]

18. A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants!

[nonconformist]

16. Ha! But....

I'm askeerd of clowns. :cry:

[Breeze54]

2. Can't you post a snippet? A teaser?

I'm interested but give me a sample please! ;)

Signed;

A Former IT worker.

[OhioChick]

3. ......

Taking a serious position for workers, even 500,000 US engineers trying keep jobs are going to stay right here in the USA is sadly risky business, even for Democratic candidates.

John has taken the position that he will not be beholding to corporations, but Hillary and Bill have taken millions from the IT industry, Hillary proposes expanding the number of H-1B visas issued, and thus replacing the 600,000 middle class engineers who have not yet lost their jobs, with low wage workers from China and India. With 50% of all the degreed IT engineers in the USA already immigrant workers, Hillary as recently said more workers is about "innovation"; ie, workers from India and China are more innovative than US citizens, or as it has been put, "Johnny can't do math." Hillary's answer is to issue more H-1B visas and push the education button, which she knows will not start for 15 years.

Either Hillary (and John McClain, who sings the same song), are woefully ignorant of the facts, or their dependance on corporate funding inoculates them against understanding what is happening.

John is our best, and maybe only, hope to protect industry in the USA.

For most congressmen and senators, the necessity of fund raising means that they get no chance to talk to people who have little money to contribute, which means not talking to the 50% of US citizens who are workers, a problem if you are a Democrat.

Let's look at the facts: Most of the high level engineers that come to the USA come from Canada and the UK, not India or China. Most IT engineers from India or China come on visas that certify that their wage is comparable to US workers doing jobs defined as "modestly complex tasks requiring limited judgment".

That is not the best and brightest, that is the bottom half of the IT workforce, where US citizens who earn degrees in computer science and electrical engineering would get jobs. But 50% of graduates don't ever get job using their skills.

John has taken the position that he will not let computer science be wiped out as a desirable occupation for US citizens, but he needs to break away from the Clinton position and say that he supports the best and the brightest of foreign engineers being hired in the USA, but not replacements who are listed as being in the lower half of the work force. There are 500,000 US citizens still holding jobs as IT engineers working in the USA. They all know the industry has replaced 500,000 already and wants to replace the rest. The 500,000 who can vote will vote for someone who will support them. The 500,000 currently on visas can not vote.

More at OP's Link: http://blog.johnedwards.com/story/2008/1/20/1046/67753

[Breeze54]

11. Thank You! This has been central to IT workers for a while now.

The visa's and the influx of people with them taking US jobs; not to mention all the jobs going over sea's. :(

[Triana]

14. Tis yet another reason we NEED Edwards! (n/t)

[ChromeFoundry]

20. Sure is! n/t

[Breeze54]

23. Are you aware of this? - Techsunite.org ? - Total US Jobs Offshored...

http://www.techsunite.org/

Techsunite.org is the nationally-oriented web site of WashTech/CWA, the nation's leading union
for high-tech workers. We are ensuring that our voices get heard and our needs are met. Today,
job security, health care, retirement plans, offshore outsourcing and visas are on our minds
more than ever. From Silicon Valley to Boston, high-tech workers are joining our national network
-to raise our voice and make a difference. Now it is time for you to join our movement at www.washtech.org/join

Total US Jobs Offshored

From 01/01/2000 To 01/21/2008

Jobs Offshored 528,478

Jobs Lost 263,069

--------

Top 10 Culprits
Company

Most Recent--- Jobs Offshored --- Est. jobs lost

IBM 11/20/2006 --- 63700 ----- 45247

EDS 06/27/2005 ----- 22400 ---- 7950

Dell 02/01/2007 ------17450 ---- 7100

Cognizant 11/01/2004 --- 15000 -- data unavailable

Siemens AG --- 03/02/2004 ----15000 --- data unavailable

General Electric 12/20/2004 ---- 14250 ---data unavailable

Convergys 04/13/2005 ----- 14000 ------------160

Accenture 06/27/2005 -------- 13000 ----------90

Computer Sciences Corp 06/27/2005 --- 10800 --- 5400

Intel 10/01/2005 -------- 10426 ---------- 4126

:(

[OhioChick]

34. ....

India now denies their prior admission that they abuse H-1b by paying way below market wages

On the May 18, 2007 edition of CNN's "India 360: Indian IT troubles for US," Indian companies categorically deny that they use the H-1b to hire Indians at wages below what Americans earn:

Two American senators have alleged that Indian IT companies are displacing American workers by hiring Indians at lower wages and are misusing the H1B visas. . . Indian companies have reacted to this saying these allegations are unfounded and that there has been no abuse of H-1B visas on their part.

In this CNN video, U.S. India Business Council (USIBC) president Ron Somers states that "certainly there has been no abuse" of H-1b visas by these member companies of the India Business Council. NASSCOM also denies that any abuse is occurring.



CALLING INDIA'S BLUFF

However, according to the Hindustan Times in September 2006, a top user of H-1b within the U.S. admitted to substantially underpaying their H-1b workers, citing that underpayment as their "competitive advantage":

Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) vice president Phiroz Vandrevala even admitted that his company enjoys a competitive advantage because of its extensive use of foreign workers in the United States on H-1B and L-1 visas. "Our wage per employee is 20-25 per cent less than US wages for a similar employee," Vandrevala said. "Typically, for a TCS employee with five years experience, the annual cost to the company is $60,000-70,000, while a local American employee might cost $80,000-100,000. "This (labour arbitrage) is a fact of doing work onsite. It's a fact that Indian IT companies have an advantage here and there's nothing wrong in that. The issue is that of getting workers in the US on wages far lower than the local wage rate."
According to this list compiled by InformationWeek, TCS is the 4th largest user of H-1b visas within the U.S. Most likely InfoSys, ranked number one, and Wipro, ranked number two, are also abusing the H-1b to execute similar "competitive advantage" against American workers.


http://programmersguild.blogspot.com/2007/05/india-now-denies-their-prior-admission.html

[OhioChick]

15. This is My #1 Issue. n/t

[OhioChick]

19. Sorry to Hear That You're a "Former IT Worker"

Fortunately, I'm still in the field........after about 7 pay cuts. So damn stressed out that my current job will be outsourced for "cost-cutting measures."

[Breeze54]

22. Me too.

:(

[cynthia]

6. it's unfortunate that people who are not effected by these issues

know so little about what is really going on. Our manufacturing jobs have been outsourced, our technology jobs are going overseas as well. Our young people have so few prospects left.

John Edwards understands how the policies of the past decade (and more) have been slowly eroding our economy and quality of life.

He is the one who will really change the status quo.

[OhioChick]

12. Well Said. n/t

[Triana]

13. I totally agree but SO MANY people are somehow NOT getting this...

..I frankly (besides the lamestream media blackout and threats from the damned US CoC) don't understand it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. I don't understand it either.

:shrug: Edwards not getting the nomination will be a grave mistake! Just thinking about it makes me depressed.


Edwards '08

Of the People By the People For the People

[Breeze54]

17. Thank You, Triana!

:hi:

[Triana]

24. Very welcome. I KNOW this is a HUGE issue - has been for me, too. (n/t)

[DianaForRussFeingold]

21. "John is our best, and maybe only, hope to protect industry in the USA."

:dem: Thank You for posting this! ...


"What are we going to do for our children?"
"Are you willing to look your children in the eye tonight,
and say I'm going to turn this mess, over to you?"

"Because if you turn your back, on the incompetence and the corruption
that exists in washington today-- that's exactly what you're saying!" John Edwards
at MSNBC debate http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x83052


:dem:Please, help, save our jobs!

edited to add--
"Edwards is committed to going to bat for everyday Americans and to changing a broken political system that leaves millions of Americans without a voice in their government."

"He'll challenge trade policies that export jobs."

"John Edwards will restore the principle of one America with opportunity for all, instead of one America for wealthy elites and another for the rest of us."

"He will fight to restore the freedom of workers to form unions and raise their standard of living through collective bargaining."

"He 's laid out a plan that will lead to universal health care for every single American."
"He'll work to halt global warming and secure the health and safety of generations to come."

[Writer]

25. I wish that more people would differentiate between IT workers and computer engineers.

They are in two close, yet separate industries. IT jobs are more likely to transfer overseas than software or hardware engineering jobs.

My husband, a software engineer, was laid off from his company (a large corporation) in Dec. of 2006. He had three job offers by March, 2006.

Unfortunately this lack of distinction, and the belief that all computing jobs = transferable, are driving away young Americans from entering this lucrative industry.

[OhioChick]

26. Morning Kick

:kick:

[antigop]

28. Thanks, Triana...there are a number of jobs in different industries that have/can be outsourced

Please see posts on this thread...starting here..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2732396&mesg_id=2738873

Jobs include:
accounting
banking/financial services
radiology
legal work
research analysis --investment banking
tutoring
graphic design
architectural services
journalism

These jobs are in addition to all of the manufacturing jobs that have left the country.

I honestly don't know what people on DU do for a living, but a lot of them don't seem to be bothered by the outsourcing/h1-b visa issue. This is an issue that all of the Dem candidates should be rallying around -- protection of American jobs and protection of the middle class. Sadly, there are too few candidates, imo, speaking up about this. Gee, I wonder why....

Thanks for the info, Triana. Please post any info you can find on the outsourcing/h1-b visa issue.


antigop
--who has seen waay too many lives destroyed by outsourcing and h1-b visa replacements

To those on this thread that have been burned by this...I am sorry for what has happened. I am sorry that people refuse to wake up (yes, even those on DU) and realize that their jobs could be next.

My family members include lots of engineers and programmers who have managed to dodge bullets so far. I fear our "luck" is running out...

PLEASE, PLEASE, post this info on any tech or industry message boards you subscribe to.

[OhioChick]

29. Thanks for the Info...

Will Add to My growing Collection.

[Triana]

30. *I'm* bothered by it and have been for YEARS! In the dot.com bust....

...and myself and family are also in the IT field (or have been).

It ought to concern everyone because sooner or later, anyone's job - almost - can and will be "outsourced" - the bleeding of American jobs and livlihoods has GOT TO STOP!

EDIT: We KNOW why Clinton isn't speaking up - SHE'S PART OF IT - she's not going to rat on herself and her corporate buds.

[antigop]

31. Yes, it *should* concern everyone, but I have found that a lot of people don't care

..because THEY have not been burned by it (yet).

[OhioChick]

33. You Got It!

Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs

Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4

Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M

[Triana]

35. Jeebus - I REALLY hope she's not the nominee...(n/t)

[AzDar]

32. K & R...

:kick: