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Hillary supporters: Assuming Edwards is out, convince my why I should NOT vote for Obama.

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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:22 PM
Original message
Hillary supporters: Assuming Edwards is out, convince my why I should NOT vote for Obama.
You should know that I have nothing against Hillary except she is more of the same and the "dynasty" issue.

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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:27 PM
Original message
Here's why I believe you should support Sen. Clinton
These are just but a few of the reasons that I support Sen. Clinton for President, and believe you should too.

- She is a policy wonk. Since she ascended onto the national stage in 1992, one of the things that has impressed me the most about Hillary Rodham Clinton, is that she knows the issues, and she has an enormous love of policy. Some of the talking heads and chattering class like to make fun of policy wonks, but a policy wonk is just what we need, for times such as this. We need a President who is proud to 'do nuance.' For the past eight years, we've had a President who, upon arriving at the White House, sent the word out that he was not a big reader (Richard Clarke wrote about this in his book). We had a president who, after receiving a Presidentidal Daily Brief on 8/6/01 entitled "bin Laden Determined to Strike in the United States," simply responded to his CIA briefer "All right, you've covered your ass now."

- Senator Clinton knows how to build alliances. One of the great misconceptions about Hillary Rodham Clinton, is that she's devisive. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, she's received kudos as being a workhorse, from some of the very same people who voted to remove her husband from office. This is what Sen. Lindsey Graham wrote about Sen. Clinton in a Time magazine article in April 2006: "As a red-state conservative, I have found common ground with her on improving health-care benefits for members of the National Guard and Reserve. We also created a bipartisan Manufacturing Caucus to help promote and address the problems facing America's manufacturers." There is simply no factual basis for those who say that she will be too divisive to get anything done as President. Her Senate record proves quite the contrary.

- She's not so wedded to her own ideas, even when the evidence tells her she's wrong. One of the things we've seen in nearly 8 years of George W. Bush's presidency, is a President so wedded to his own ideas, even when the evidence shows he's wrong. We've seen a stubborness and a frightening unwillingness to change. I don't believe that will be the case under President Hillary Rodham Clinton. One of my favorite stories about Sen. Clinton, is how she grew up in a conversative mid-western neighborhood. Yet, her youth minister, Rev. Don Jones, took her and other youth to see Rev. Martin Luther King speak. In other words, Rev. Don Jones showed Hillary Rodham that there was a whole other world out there, other than the one she had been exposed to. Moreover, she arrived at Wellesley College as a Republican, but was transformed by the events of the turbulent 60's (i.e. the civil rights movement). As Judith Warner writes in her book Hillary Clinton: The Inside Story: "Hillary Rodham, who only two years before had shook Dr. King's hand, saw white policemen in storm trooper boots using cattle prods on peaceful black and white demonstrators, saw federal troops called in to keep the peace. Such images did not fail to make a mark on her."

- As President, Hillary Clinton will restore America's standing in the world. There's no doubt that Hillary Clinton is one of the reasons America held such a commanding presence on the international stage, during the 90's. Who can forget her going to Beijing, and uttering these words "Women's rights are human rights, once and for all." Who can forget her going to places like Africa, and championing "microcredit," which allows people (especially women) to empower themselves and take control of their own destiny, by receiving microcredit loans they can use to start their own businesses.

- A Hillary Clinton Administration will focus on the health care needs of our nation's veterans. We all know how, for all its talk of supporting our troops, the current Administration has basically turned a blind eye towards our nation's veterans, and the serious physical and mental health needs they face. As First Lady, Hillary Clinton took an active role in the issue of Gulf War Syndrome. From the August 15, 1995 issue of the New York Times:

Hillary Rodham Clinton urged a Presidential commission today to leave no stone unturned in investigating why thousands of veterans of the Persian Gulf war returned with various illnesses, even as a panel of independent medical experts suggested that the Pentagon might have been too hasty in concluding that there was no evidence of a "gulf war syndrome."

"No issue is off-limits and every reasonable inquiry should be pursued," Mrs. Clinton told the first meeting of the President's Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veterans' Illnesses. President Clinton formed the commission to evaluate the undiagnosed illnesses that have afflicted many who served in the Persian Gulf during military operations in late 1990 and early 1991.

-snip-

Mrs. Clinton has taken an interest in the issue since she received complaints from veterans during her work on health care last year, and the commission invited her to speak.


- Sen. Clinton is on the right side of THE most important issue to me today: DC voting rights. The last time I queried the web sites of the Democratic candidates, only Sen. Clinton and Rep. Kucinich had any reference to DC voting rights on their websites. I cannot support anyone for president, who does not understand the issue of DC voting rights.

- She has laid out serious policy proposals regarding election reform. Election reform is an issue dear to my heart, and I support many of the proposals that Sen. Clinton has made in terms of election reform. Some of her proposals include making Election Day a national holiday, and restoring the voting rights of ex-felons.

- Another issue dear to me, is once again having an Administration that will fix the policy around the facts, not fix the facts around the policy. For example, the Bush Administration has a record of EDITING scientific government reports that do not fit their own personal view. Just one example of this, is how the Bush White House edited a Department of Health and Human Services report on racial disparities in health care. According to an article in the Washington Post, the revised report "played down the imbalances and was less critical of the lack of equality." Sen. Clinton has constantly spoken to her desire to end what she calls this Administration's "war on science." She will "Ban political appointees from unduly interfering with scientific conclusions and publications" and "Direct department and agency heads to safeguard against political pressure that threatens scientific integrity and to promote transparency in decision-making." Source: http://hillaryclinton.com/issues/reform /

- One of the most disturbing issues to come out of this Administration's Justice Department, is how they have politicized the Department. Specifically, this Administration has politicized critical areas of DOJ such as the Civil Rights Division. They have hired people with little or no experience in civil rights; people whose only qualification was having an "R" behind their name. And they taken career employees out of the decision making process. Sen. Clinton has identified this as another area of government reform she wants to tackle. She wants to: "Rebuild the Department of Justice's traditional role in defending civil rights and the rule of law, and review charges of improper, politically motivated hiring." Source: http://hillaryclinton.com/issues/reform /


These are just but a few of the reasons I support Sen. Clinton's candidacy. But most importantly, I believe that she is ready on Day One. One of the things that has most impressed me about Sen. Clinton, particularly as I have watched her in the Presidential debates, is her focus. Instead of shooting from the hip and saying what she thinks is the politically expedient thing, she thinks through all sides of an issue. We need that kind of seriousness and deliberateness in a President.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you for putting this all in one place. It is exactly what I needed.
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. You're welcome...I really hope this helps you. eom
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. It does.
:thumbsup:
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Good....I'm really glad it does. eom
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. excellent!
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thank you! eom
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Personally....I believe Obama Will get 3 to 6 percentage points lower...
...than Hillery. (against the Republican candidate)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wouldn't assume Edwards is out.But the argument for Hillary would be "the devil you know".
I don't think, on paper, there is much difference between Obama and Hillary but at least with Hillary you know what you are getting.
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. that's exactly the problem
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 04:37 PM by RiverStone
Oh we know alright, that's why Hillary has more folks who have said unequivocally they would "refuse" to vote for her compared (respectively) to any other candidate from either party.

I can't fathom how such a polarizing candidate can unite the country, when she can't come close to uniting our own party.

Edwards or Obama would do far, far better on the united front count.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Vote for who you want.....
sounds like you've already made up your mind.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Not really. It changes by the minute.
Hillary inches closer and closer to getting my full support. I just don't want to vote for her just because it's the most popular thing to do. I really want to know what she will do.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Edwards message appeals to me the most.....
but I don't think he has a chance and I'm not sure he has the savvy to garner the support he would need to implement his plans.

For me, supporting Hillary boils down to wanting a person who has the pull and the smarts to turn the economy around. We're in deep, serious shit economically. And as my previously republican sister pointed out, when dealing with a new president what better safety net than Bill Clinton?

Don't get me wrong....I think Hillary is smart enough and tough enough to handle the job on her own but pillow talk with a previous popular president who pulled this country out of a deep deficit can't hurt.

And that's my whole philosophy on supporting Hillary. Obama is an ok guy, but I think he's long on dreams and short on reality. Edwards is a capable guy but short on experience as well.


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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. I'm am beginning to think in those terms, also.
Much as I hate the thought of a dynasty, practicality takes precedence.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I hate the whole dynasty thing....
but I feel the country is in such deep shit that I don't have the luxury of letting it determine who I vote for.

My driving force is what is best for the country, not who I like the most. It's not always easy to look at it that way but I do the best I can.

Having said all that, I will vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I just want my way, for once.
But when push comes to shove, I'll support any dem.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. I'd love to have my way for a change........
I don't know why the rest of American won't do what I WANT, dammit.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Frustrating ain't it?
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yep.
I seem to forever be marching to that different drummer. Or maybe I'm just tone deaf. :crazy:
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. We're agents of "hope" and as you know, hope is shit.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I'm just hoping
to not get shit on.

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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Hate to tell ya, you have been for 7 years.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I guess I should have added
AGAIN. :-)
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. By different shitter on-ers
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I think the last time I trusted my government to not shit on me
was back in the 1960's. Vietnam cured my naivety.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I figured it out in 8th grade when Father Pastor lied to me.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. You should vote for Kucinich, because the issues he raises are critical to the
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 03:44 PM by John Q. Citizen
health of our body politic.

Neither Hill or Obama are going to go anywhere near most of these issues, and we need a voice who has the courage to actually bring them up, to actually force debaten about them.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I will vote for him in the primaries in FL
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Though I am a nominal Clinton supporter, I have no interest in convincing others to
change their vote in the primary. I think any of our top 3 can win and can do well. I have problems with Obama, but none that I can't overcome if he's the candidate.

Best wishes to you.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I feel the same way you do about Hillary.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. There is no "dynasty" issue.
If you buy that meme then there is no reason that will satisfy you for Hillary. Maintain your moral purity and vote for a new name (because you want a CHANGE) whose politics are SSDD.

But have the guts to take responsibility for your decision.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. I always do.
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. because his last name isn't Clinton...
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm not going to vote for republican lite, and that includes Obama!
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tandem5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. yeah I don't know why this gets lost...
The things he says, his policy positions - he is to the right of Edwards and Clinton. I don't care how many "independents" he pulls in I'm not voting for a republican lite (as you say) for my *democratic* nominee.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. ...
:thumbsup:
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. What J-3072 said
Plus, you should try to avoid having your heart broken more than once per primary cycle.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I'm sick of voting for people who never win.
But those are the people who seem to share my beliefs.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. Depends on how you feel about Nuclear power
Obama is more pro nuke than HIll, at least his public stance is more moderate than hers.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
27. I hate to break this to you my friend
but HRC is unstoppable. She will be the President. Only Obama can stop her, and I doubt he will be able to do so.

I will gladly vote for him if he has a shot at stopping her.

Otherwise, it will be DK on 2-5-8:kick:

Peace and low stress
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comradebillyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. Make up your mind based on what you see
and read and hear, with some skepticism as a filter, and vote for the one who you think would be a better candidate and president. Try to find a source of information more objective than DU or Free Republic. Go to the candidates web sites and read their positions, etc. I know why I like her but I am not evangelical by nature and I think everyone should look for themselves and make independent decisions.

That being said, Hillary is tough as nails and will kick repuke ass all over the country and Obama is pushing a vague slogan of hope and change. He hopes to be president and god only knows what kind of change he has in mind.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. Obama is vulnerable because he is not deeply imbedded in people's
minds. The GOP will be able to "re-narrative" his life. Hillary is a known commodity. People know what they are getting with her. Not easily swiftboated.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
33. Barack has fresh ideas fresh energy. The world would instatly embrace america for clear change.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
43. Those are two GREAT things to hold against her.
I agree with you. I'm not a "hater" as her supporters like to label anyone who won't support the Oligarchy, I just feel she showcase everything that is wrong with American politics. The dynasty issue is not a minor issue. In fact, it is HUGE, and it is one of the issues I wish were discussed more openly and with more passion. You don't get change by installing the SAME people with the SAME ties to the SAME things which caused the problems in the first place.

.
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pauldg0 Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
44. Edwards will never be out.....
...........I am tired of all you planted Democrats who are basically repuks.
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