Dear Grocery Chains ..... Kiss My Organic Ass (non campaign rant)

[Stinky The Clown]

Totally away from the campaigns ...... I just have to vent about this "Organic" crap the big grocery chains are pushing on us. It is nothing but a license for them to print money and for us to underwrite the effort.

I shop regularly at a Safeway, but have seen the same sort of scam in other chains. Their old house brand stuff is now all "Organic" And the prices are up. Way up, compared to the remaining non organic stock.

The produce aisle is the worst. As but one example, just today, I bought Italian parsley. Non organic (a tiny little bunch) was 99 cents. Organic parsley, same size bunch, was ****$2.99****. That's right. Two bux more for it being grown in horseshit instead of dirt.

No, I am NOT opposed to the idea of organic products. I AM opposed to being grossly overcharged so the grocery chains can do to me what the oil companies and utilities have been doing to me ......

[water]

1. It's a fad.

In fact, one could go so far as to call organic foods a "status item".

I just buy whatever is on sale! :)

I don't blame the stores, though. If the market is there, why not milk it?

[madeline_con]

5. Do you worry about health issues?

I've considered trying to go organic, but milk and meat are expensive, and produce is outrageous.

Welcome to DU, BTW. :hi:

[water]

9. Thanks for the welcome!

I do worry about health issues; I check labels for calories, fat, various vitamins, etc. I've noticed that organic products often have LESS good stuff than their non-organic counterparts (like juices, granola bars, cereals, etc.).

I'm not opposed to non-organic foods because I have faith in human science. :)

[Lost-in-FL]

12. I have faith in human science...

but not in corporate greed.

BTW... welcome.

[madeline_con]

16. It's not the science, it's what food conglomerates know they

can get away with.

I didn't realize the amount of high fructose corn syrup in everything until a news show alerted me and got me checking just for that one item. It's amazing how much we consume. We might as well be drinking it!

[Lost-in-FL]

21. There's lots of confusion about "Organic" labels

and unfortunately people think of it as status. Buying "Organic" It is not like buying a Latte at Starbucks.

My thing is that even if it is "Organic" and i cannot understand the ingredients it won't make it home. It is buying smarter and cooking with "clean foods". If a canned soup says its organic why buy it if you can make your own with less sodium?

[Chovexani]

27. Amen.

I think a lot of the problem today is people just don't know how to cook for themselves anymore. The number of people my age (I'm 26) that I know who are utterly helpless in a kitchen is staggering. My ex-girlfriend could pretty much microwave Hot Pockets, pour hot water into Cup o Noodles and that's it. When we worked together, I was always sure to bring extra homemade leftovers for my lunch because I knew if I didn't, she'd be eating whatever microwavable processed crap was in the vending machine at work.

It's really not that difficult and time-consuming to make a healthy, tasty homecooked meal. But I think it's getting to be a lost art. A lot of people like to diss Food Network, but just out of the people my age that I know (self included), the ones who really enjoy cooking got into it from watching that channel out of boredom. Especially Alton Brown. :)

[madeline_con]

35. I eat lots of fresh produce, but I worry about what's on it.

Even if I make soup from scratch, I use the regular stuff from the store; the meat, veggies, and then use meal to make cornbread or a buy box of crackers. So, am I really any better off?

[Lost-in-FL]

44. I see your point

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger... lol. I have the same concerns as you but if we think about it too much we would go crazy. I try to eat better and that's all i can do.

[Chovexani]

45. I think they go hand in hand

Actually it was concern over pesticides that made me start switching over to organic stuff in the first place. I'm one of those super skinny types that looks healthy but is in terrible shape, and a lot of it has to do with the crap I was putting in my body.

Buying in season seems to be lost, too. The convenience of industrial agriculture and being able to buy things whenever has gotten people out of touch with growing seasons and such.

But here I go sounding like the Pagan I am again. :)

[LSK]

55. its currently -2 degrees here, what grows in this season???

:shrug:

[Chovexani]

56. Frostbite?

:P

[NashVegas]

80. 8-6 Lives

When you add in commuting, most people don't make it home early enough to want to spend even 1/2 hour cooking.

[madeline_con]

29. True, true.

[NashVegas]

79. Faith In Human Science Is Misplaced When the #1 Motive Is Profits

And when it comes to foods, profit is #1.

[Chovexani]

11. Do it a bit at a time

And watch where you shop. I'm fortunate in that we have some smaller, local grocery chains in my area that have a good selection of genuinely organic things at reasonable prices. I find for certain things, like produce, buying organically in season is something I can't give up now that I've started it.

[Lost-in-FL]

10. It isn't a "status item"

I think you should look up about what it means when products say "Organic". You should also read your labels (not just for calories anymore).

When you buy "trash" for food cause its cheap it will only cost you more on the long run. Health care isn't cheap so in the end you can save yourself some money.

[water]

13. I am in incredibly good shape! I walk and take the bus everywhere I go...

...and I don't consider my inexpensive food "trash". Many organic foods are empty calories because they aren't pumped full of vitamins.

[Lost-in-FL]

15. There's definitely lots of "trash food"

that is organic. I avoid "organic empty calories" cause they are normally expensive.

[Richard Steele]

83. That's utter nonsense. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

nm

[Chovexani]

14. Organic isn't the problem, corporations are

They have caught on that there is a big market for people concerned about chemicals, frankenfood, etc. So they are selling to it. Just like the "green" movement, "organic" is just another big spending demographic to big business and they are cashing in. John and Jane SUV can buy "organic" Frosted Flakes at a dollar more in a smaller box and feel good about themselves. There is so much misinformation and outright deception out there.

I buy organic for health and environmental reasons, plus it just tastes better to me. But I think there needs to be far more oversight. Companies can slap the "organic" label on just about anything the way it is now.

[water]

18. Here is a problem with getting the government involved...

The corporations wouldn't be a problem if people didn't buy it! It's easy to blame them, but they aren't forcing anyone to buy their organic products.

As for labeling, we should NOT want the government involved! Imagine if someone like McCain wins. He decides to appoint people whose idea of organic standards are very, very lenient.

People will see the government label and decide that it's legit, even if it isn't! It would be much better to have competeting organic-labeling groups (and I think some may already exist).

[Chovexani]

22. One of the many, many reasons we need a Dem in office

It needs to be a partnership; we shouldn't leave the government out of the equation simply for the fear that Repukes would get hold of it and gut it. By that logic, we shouldn't have the EPA and other agencies. I truly believe all these e.Coli outbreaks and food recalls would not have happened with Gore as president.

But that's what happens when you take the people's money and spend it on bullshit imperialist wars instead of investing it in these kinds of agencies.

[water]

24. The truth is...

Republicans can win office, and it's always better to have competition. Plus, I think there are more pressing issues for the taxpayer's money than organic labeling.

[Lost-in-FL]

26. If it wasn't for Govment regulations...

we would be drinking dirty water, well... dirtier water.

[water]

28. There usually aren't competing tap water providers, for a variety of reasons.

When I walk into the store, I see dozens of competing products side-by-side on the shelf.

In your opinion, which is a better way to spend tax dollars: veterans' benefits or organic labeling? I think this is something the market can take care of, should the demand be large enough.

[Chovexani]

40. The demand is there and "the market" has failed

Because "the market" cares about profits above anything else.

Laissez-faire isn't good for economics and it sure as hell isn't good for food. (Why I'm having to explain this to someone who is ostensibly a Democrat is troubling.)

[Lost-in-FL]

42. Better way to spend taxes: Getting out of Iraq while implementing food labeling...

What? Do you think we just fix one problem at a time? Your president doesn't care for Veterans you think he would for labels? BTW... veterans eat too.

[Chovexani]

30. Food, period, should be one of our biggest taxspending priorities

If people are eating poisoned shit, what else matters? It affects everything--healthcare, education, you name it. It's a domino effect.

It's an economic issue, too, beyond just doing the right thing. The poorer the neighborhood the shittier the food selection, people end up eating crap because it's all they can afford (have you ever seen a grocery store in the 'hood or checked out the produce selection at the local Wally World?), they get sick and because they have no health insurance...on down.

It's a web.

[water]

39. And you think that government regulations would lower food prices for them?

We would end up with complicated regulations that only big companies could afford to follow, pushing out smaller competitors and raising prices. And with Republicans in power, those regulations probably wouldn't be something you would agree with, anyways!

Price controls on food have proved disastrous, so that couldn't be a response to the higher prices.

If organic labeling is such a big issue, there should be a market for concerned individuals to get together and create a labeling agency. But not at the expense of the tax payers.

[Lost-in-FL]

57. I'm confused here...

Don't you want competition? Don't you say it will make it all better? If corporations push small competitors out of business because they follow regulations for the good of the customers isn't that a good thing? It will force small companies to either bring about good products or just produce for big companies. Isn't competition what you want?

A labeling agency created by which concerned individuals? Corporations???? I see in wish side you are. Wait... let me see who else created "an agency of concerned individuals"... Let's me... yeah... BANKS!!!!??? that created the Federal Reserve??? the banks that also wrote the Bankruptcy laws???

[Richard Steele]

82. That's an awful big load of re-labeled Libertarianism you're selling. I ain't buying it.

nm

[madeline_con]

20. I wonder about that, too.

How do I know whether I'm being duped? I should research it, maybe look for certain brands.

Your "John and Jane SUV" comment was a good one. :)

[Chovexani]

33. I am still learning myself

Another poster made a good comment about empty calories, and unpronounceable ingredients on the label.

"Organic" doesn't matter if it's the same old processed crap in a nicer looking box.

[Crazy Dave]

2. No doubt

And putting the "green" label is all that people need to make them think they're doing the right thing and feel all good about themselves and that's all what marketing is about. Making people feel good about themselves if they buy your product. I'm already seeing and hearing ads about the new giant SUV and Pick-Up truck "Hybrids" :rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

8. They conjur up images of Farmer Brown and his wife to make you feel good.

Farmer Brown ......



.... ain't all that.

[Chovexani]

17. Sure enough

Marketing, marketing, marketing. :(

It's a shame too, because there are real benefits to going organic. You have to research and just plain use your head when shopping for organic stuff, because big business has polluted the stores so. I'm seeing more and more organic food equivalents of the giant "hybrid" SUVs on store shelves.

[Lost-in-FL]

32. Marketing, marketing, marketing

Yup...

I still remember in the eighties when they would label "Olive oil" as "Cholesterol Free". I was like... huh? Olives are plants... they don't have cholesterol!! I was in high school and I even knew that. Then a few months later they made companies define what "Cholesterol free" meant... Then the "Fat Free" craze started with the "light" and "reduced fat", etc. My head spins just thinking about it. Now it is happening with the "Whole Grains", "100% whole wheat", "Organic", "made with partially organic ingredients", etc...

[water]

46. Yep. Government labeling is a joke.

Juice is different from juice drink. Did you know that?

[Lost-in-FL]

50. Corporate labeling is a joke

Because of Democrats I know what I put in my mouth. But now with the Republicans I have to be very vigilant.

[water]

51. Wouldn't you rather it not be dependent upon who is in office?

[Lost-in-FL]

52. It shouldn't depend upon...

but it is. Republicans just care to cater to corporations not their constituents. They would let corporations feed us with rat poison so long as they help them get elected.

[Chovexani]

47. Oh dear god I remember the "fat free" BS

And its evil step-cousin, "lite".

Some things never change, do they?

[durrrty libby]

3. It is outrageous. People can fight back by growing a few things

themselves.

Herbs are easy in a window garden or grow light

[madeline_con]

6. And a couple of tomato plants in pots is do-able. n/t

[Chovexani]

4. Here here

There really needs to be some kind of regulation and standards for organic labeling. That's not to say that all of it is bullshit, but I find that in the major supermarkets it is. I shop at Costco, Trader Joe's and Sunflower Market (a local Tempe AZ store that is like Whole Paycheck without the Whole Paycheck prices). Those places utilize local growers, too.

Safeway in particular is absolutely ridiculous with that shit, their "organic" is nothing more than the usual house brand in a smaller package with the price jacked up.

[pansypoo53219]

7. i plant my own parsley,

cover with cardboard box over winter. will not last for the new season tho. : (

[alarimer]

19. The label "organic" is a marketing ploy, nothing more.

There are of course real organic foods out there but they are most likely not at your supermarket. What Michael Pollan ("The Onmivore's Dilemma") discovers in the book is that industrial organic (Like Cascadia Farms) is not really better for the environment than the other parts of the food system. It might be slightly better for you, if you can trust the label, which is another issue altogether.

[XemaSab]

70. I saw Pollan speak the other night...

He actually looks a lot like the farmer in the "American Gothic" painting. :P

What's even better: Hillary was speaking across campus and Pollan got a bigger audience. :D

He gave a terrific speech about the failure of "nutrition" and how "nutrition" as a science is still in its infancy.

The overall gist of what he was saying is that nutrition makes processed foods look healthier than they actually are, because you can't throw extra vitamins into a carrot, but you can throw extra vitamins into, say, breakfast cereal. This makes breakfast cereal look like a healthy food choice, but if you read the ingredients, it's all chemicals and other crap.

He also gave a rundown of food laws in the United States, including the rise and fall of the law that said that foods could only be sold under the label of what was generally accepted to comprise said food item. For example, you couldn't sell something labeled "meat loaf" if it was really made with, say, fish. This law was repealed in the 1970s.

Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

And the simple rule of thumb: would your great-grandmother recognize it as food? :shrug:

Michael Pollan is my baby-daddy. :)

[alarimer]

77. it was an eye-opening book for me

There isn't a lot I can do about here, except read labels. The idea of buying local is not new, of course but I think it's the right idea. We do not need asparagus flown in from Peru (or wherever he said it came from). But if we eats stuff in season and get by the rest of the year, we can improve the food system in this country.

The only thing that I wonder about is how farmers like the one at Polyface can provide food for millions of people. The industrial food system developed to get things everywhere and quickly. How we change that so everyone has adequate, good food at a reasonable price is beyond me at the moment.

[XemaSab]

87. In the question and answer session someone basically asked him that

and he said yeah, we'd need a lot more farmers in order for that to happen, and the government doesn't want there to be more farmers because small farmers traditionally side with labor. :P

[ReverendDeuce]

23. Lots of Freepish replies in this thread... I am surprised...

Almost as bad as "that organic is all for hippies and their lib friends!"

I buy mostly organic groceries. It costs barely more than regular stuff. I enjoy the fact that it's been grown naturally and is non-GMO. Pesticide-free is also important these days.

[Lost-in-FL]

25. You nailed it with the "freepish replies"...

and everything else

[AZBlue]

58. Here, here!

Obviously lots of people here are pretending to know about organic when they don't have a clue.

[TreasonousBastard]

31. So buy the cheap stuff. The process to be...

certified organic and the labeling requiremenets have been out there for a while-- it ain't cheap to be a certifed organic producer, and there aren't enough of them to bring the prices down. If you're looking for organic out of season, (like, in January) you're really gonna pay gor it.

But, hey, it's so easy, and so much fun, to bitch about the price and complain about scams and conspiracies.

[Stinky The Clown]

38. Tell ya what .......

..... the standards have been revised .... making damned near anything (<---exaggeration) qualified for the label.

The concept of truly organic foods is a good one. The implementation in today's world ..... not so much.

And why the need to cop that 'tude?

[TreasonousBastard]

86. I know about the recently loosened standards for labelling...

but I'm just getting so damn tired of hearing complaining every where I go.

Bitch, bitch, bitch, but rarely the slightest suggestion what to do about it but bitch some more. One wonders how it is the complainers could themselves be so perfect but everything else is going to hell...

[napi21]

34. My hubby works for a supermarket, and I jsut asked him is they

make a LOT more $$ on organic labled products. He said YES! Their cost is just a little bit more than the regular products, but they charge 3-4 times more to the public!

[water]

43. Exactly.

Until there is solid proof that organic products (which often contain fewer vitamins) are substantially better for you, we shouldn't be telling people who are already struggling to make ends meet, thanks to our President to spend valuable money on organic food.

[Lost-in-FL]

53. Contain fewer vitamins...

because some Vitamins are preservatives. No vitamins mean that they aren't using preservatives on their products.

[napi21]

61. I don't doubt that the organic foods are better. I had a rib roast for

Christmas dinner that was awsome! The first thing I said to my husband was "You didn't pay that much for this did you?" He said no, that the manager didn't sell it and told him he could buy the organic roast for the same price as the regular one. It was still too mcuh $$ to suit me, but it really was wonderful! I'm simply too damn cheap to pay so much for free range chicken and organic beef! I'll eat tuna salad and cheese sandwiches first.

[SpiralHawk]

75. That sounds like corporate propaganda: real organic food has more vitamines

and nutrition, and will not toxify your body with chemical mutant crapola.

[flvegan]

36. Your nutritional training?

I'd love to hear it.

[Stinky The Clown]

49. Who's talking nutrition? I'm talking marketing.

But whatever ..... you're 'tude is showing.

[flvegan]

54. Indeed. So again, your nutritional training?

[Stinky The Clown]

62. Do you have an actual point or are you just consumed with starting something?

Your cryptic demand for my credentials is bullshit. Who the fuck are you to demand that of me because I posted an opinion?

You don't like my opinion, fine. I could care less.

You wanna cop an attitude from the start? That's okay too. Just be genuine about it. Tell me what your little problem is.

[flvegan]

63. Like I said, Sparky

Hee hee, this should be a good one.

[flvegan]

68. Crickets are good too, though.

[Dorian Gray]

73. Demanding an immediate response...

hah. Good luck with that one.

As for me, I agree with Hubs to a certain extent. Organic is good in theory, but when the regulations have been diminished so much, it's often a cash cow for the supermarkets. There is a list of products out there that are better to buy organic than others because of the proudcts likelihood of holding onto pesticides or other toxins.

http://www.deliciousorganics.com/Controversies/toptobuyorg.htm



This website lists some of the problems with the deregulation of organic produce:

http://organicconsumers.org/sos.cfm



And an objective consumer reports article about when it pays to buy organic:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/food/diet-nutrition/organic-products/organic-products-206/overview/index.htm

[Stinky The Clown]

76. His reply was completely disingenuous

He and I had a private exchange leading up to his 'crickets' post that ended mere minutes from that last in the line of snark he posted.

That said, thank you for 'getting it' with respect to my rant. It isn't against organic food. It is against the way large companies have taken advantage of the notion of it, and the abysmal reduction in standards the feds threw at it, and the unnecessarily high prices they charge for it.

[JanMichael]

74. This is the weirdest post on this thread

I guess if you are a nutritionist, you might feel the need to jump in on food threads, but this post is about the cost of food; not the nutrition involved. The OP made no claims to be a pro in that area at all--he was just commenting on how he feels ripped off--

I can identify--we are vegetarians, and lately feel like elitist creeps when we leave the store--wondering how families are managing these days.

[LeftyMom]

37. Safeway grossly overprices their organic items. Pretty much any non-sale items, really.

Every now and then they'll run a decent sale, but for the most part, I find that both our local health food store and whole freakin' paycheck are cheaper.

[AZBlue]

59. Really? Here it's just the opposite - Safeway's got some of the best buys on organic.

and local and smaller "health" food stores are outrageously expensive.

[LeftyMom]

60. Our local food co-op is non-profit and part of a larger buying group.

There's also a lot of competition in that area here, since we have Whole Foods, the local food co-op, two small local health food chains and then Trader Joe's, plus one of the local grocery chains (Raley's) has a decent health section with okay regular prices and good sales.

[Gormy Cuss]

41. Don't shop at Safeway.

I noticed the same thing years ago. It's the strategy used on the old "gourmet shelves." The only time the Safeways and Albertsons of the world have competitive pricing on these items is when there's a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's type store nearby.

Vote with your wallet if you can.

[Quantess]

69. You are so right!

Safeway is the vanguard of "loss leader". They will feature a fruit or vegetable for an incredibly low price just to get people in the doors to spend, spend, spend. They figure if you come to the store to buy one veg or fruit, you will buy more, at higher prices.

I'm not remembering "gourmet shelves".

[Gormy Cuss]

84. "Gourmet" foods were high markup items for special occasions or for ethnic cooking

back when most of America viewed such things as exotic. Smoked oysters, pearl onions, and other treats popular with the 1950s-60s cocktail hour set would be shelved together with such exotica as baby corn, water chestnuts, roasted peppers, and other ingredients that these days are on the ethnic food aisle or simply shelved along with related food stuffs. By calling them "gourmet" and grouping them together it suggested that they were worth the high price, even though the reason for the pricing was in part low demand. The ethnic food staples typically left these gourmet zones as soon as there were enough people in the local area to sustain an ethnic market.

Many of the supermarket chains treat organic food the same way these days.

[icymist]

48. Grow your own parsley! Much cheaper.

eom

[Quantess]

64. I do believe that supply and demand will even things out.

As more growers get a higher price for organically grown produce, the supply side will increase, resulting in more organic produce, at lower prices. The demand for organic produce will increase, as it becomes more affordable.

[Sanctified]

65. If you like eating fruits and vegetables laden with pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers...

that are contributing to a dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico the size of New Jersey thats up to you. I myself prefer to only buy stuff labeled Oregon Tilth and if I can't get what I need labeled Oregon Tilth then I will settle for USDA Organic. Also I usually buy all my stuff at a local Co-op that is sometimes more expensive than the Organic stuff you get at Safeways or Fredmyers but they label where the crops are grown so I can knowingly purchase stuff grown in my home state of Oregon and keep my dollars in the local economy.

[johnaries]

66. Recently I ate at the Whole Foods Store buffet.

(Not my idea). The food was terrible! Even the whole kernel corn was awful. How do you screw up whle kernel corn? :shrug:

[Lost-in-FL]

85. Whole Foods is a rip off. n/t

[SoCalDem]

67. Unless YOU grow it or you personally know the grower, you are probably wasting your money

Just wash it well, cook it up and know in your heart that you tried your best:)

All the crap we breathe in every day probably cancels out our efforts to eat healthy anyway :(

[MagickMuffin]

71. I always have to wonder if it is labeled Organic, but is actually *GMF.......

When you think about it, *GMF's don't need the pesticides and fertilizers that agribusiness crops usually need. By modifying the genes and creating the super seeds, agribusiness can charge us more for the R&D of seed stock, the crops, the label Organic, and we mustn't forget the shipping surcharges, higher food prices because they have subverted the system.

I've been trying to find local farmer markets to buy my produce. I found a place that sells organically grown food, although I haven't been yet, because they're only open on weekends and very short hours.:-(

Someone had posted this link before, don't know if you saw it.

The best organic food is what's grown closest to you. Use our website to find farmers' markets, family farms, and other sources of sustainably grown food in your area, where you can buy produce, grass-fed meats, and many other goodies. Want to support this great web site? Shop in our catalog for things you can't find locally!


http://www.localharvest.org/

*Genetically Modified Foods

[robbedvoter]

72. Word! You have no idea what's in there anyway.

[NashVegas]

78. I Don't Recommend Buying Organics At Conventional Supermarkets

For exactly the reasons you list, PLUS, I really do question their suppliers.

The organic celery I buy at a Kroger, Harris Teeter, or what-have-you, tastes no different than plain old farmed-with-pesticides celery, yet what's on the shelf at my much smaller, committed organic grocer is packed with flavor.

Whole Foods is a total betrayal. Don't get me started.

[cutlassmama]

88. I think the Farmer's Market has the best. And they cut out the middle

men like the stores. You can tell just by the smell how fresh they are.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

81. Fair trade organic

I try to purchase a few items that are fair trade, organic, but they are expensive! However, I'd rather a few of my dollars go to paying people to pull weeds than paying companies to make pesticides and spread them across the globe. I only wish that I could afford to buy everything fair trade, organic, but there's just no way we can afford that.