Uhm...Maybe the American PEOPLE are ALSO at fault....

[debbierlus]

Yes. George W Bush & his entire criminal administration are cancers upon society & the globe. And, yes. The Republican 'leadership' seems nothing to be a bunch of sexually depraved, war mongering, criminal cowards. And, it is true that the DLC has jumped into bed with the corporate powers that be, & the current democratic led Congress has been highly derilect in their oversight duties of the severe treason committed by the current Presidential crime family....

It is all true. It is also true that the VAST majority of Americans are NOT active in politics. And, by active, I do not mean signing an internet petition or voting. I just became a member of the democratic town leadership committee. How did I get this position? I received a phone call from the chair asking me to be on it since I was one of about five people who attend meetings in our town of 5000 people. One of the other five is my husband, he came with me. And, I am no hero. I had to be called & asked to participate again since I haven't been attending meetings as of late. I am setting a grand new goal to getting our meeting attendance doubled....

Here is another fun example....During 2004 I was very active in developing a myspace group called Save Our Democracy. I did a pretty good job of posting daily links to the election manipulation & voter fraud issues during that time. I also developed Action Alerts. Simple, objective, easy to do actions that would create a direct impact on the issue. My goal was to keep a record of actions taken by our group members, so I could create documentation of our impact. Out of the over seven hundred 'members' who signed up, I had two people actually do ANY of the action alerts I posted. Two people. I specifically tried to make it super easy, I literally gave step by step instructions. There simply was no will by the group members to actually PARTICIPATE.

Now, I realize that here I am preaching to a portion of the choir, I know many people here are very active in political action. And, you all should be commended. But, we are in a BUBBLE. Americans are not engaged in their own governance, so we get 'leaders' who are not vested in the American or Global citizen's interests.

I know the American people are overworked. I know people have kids, elderly parents, one/two/three jobs. However, they are also watching an average of four hours of television per night & video game sales are through the roof. I know that our government instituted a unnecessary war on Iraq, a war that has killed over a MILLION of their citizens & it doesn't seem that many Americans give it much of a second thought. Or, even a first. The official 911 story has been objectively debunked, & while I do not claim to know what happened, there seems to be little curiosity other then a 'fringe' movement hammering away to find truth.

We have been criminally negligent. We have been immoral. You do NOT get the type of leaders & policies in a government without the active consent of the people...even if it is silence as consent. We decry the oil czars but we run our entire nation on oil. We didn't much care about hogging all the resources until the resources started being to much for US to afford. We have been gluttons, we haven't shared, we have taken everything and instead of finding ways to lift all boats, we built a moat & spent nearly everything we have on trying to keep it all for ourselves. I don't even know if most Americans could picture a different life. A life focused on peace & sharing & respect for the earth without material possession being the name of the game. It seems what we decry is the loss of our privilleges, without even reflecting on the fact that we had to run roughshod over the entire world to gain many of these luxuries.

If you think about, Bush is the CHILD of this mentality. The living, breathing incarnation of everything American has come to be. He THINKS his intentions are good, but it doesn't translate to reality. I can not think of a more perfect manifestion for America's collective flaws then George W Bush. It is chilling really. Our monster child.

I am ranting, I know. But, the more I think about it, the more I believe how right Al Gore was when he said that more then anything, America needs a perception change.

[Gman]

1. America needs Lee L. Mercer Jr. because

The United States Government must regulate government sleepers and government regulations authorized thought, ideas, acts, actions, rights, wrongs, controversies, facts, issues and circumstantial evidence through intelligence research, law research, law enforcement research and criminal law research implementing ROTC communications research innovating education national and international.

...umm, sorry.. I got too caught up in the Lee L. Mercer Jr. threads.

Nice rant, nevertheless.

[madeline_con]

2. I didn't vote for Bush. Not my fault.

I worked for Kerry's campaign.

Bush is not the incarnation of EVERY American. You need to rephrase your post.

[debbierlus]

5. Collective Manifestation

It is a metaphor for our ravenous consumption of the earth's resources, our entitlement to walk roughshod over the entire globe to maintain our standard of living, & our ignoring the suffering of those who we use to maintain the lifestyle.

Buying goods made from child slave in third world nations is George W Bushlike

Driving vehicles that consume mass quanities of fuel is George W Bushlike

Our silence...our turning a blind eye.

The 'its not me' mentality has to change. I worked for the Kerry campaign as well. I didn't vote for George W Bush. But, I have been silent when I should have spoken, I have bought wares made from the suffering of a child, & I have consumed more then I need. I am not trying to blast everyone, I am saying that we must all wake up to OUR part in the current American reality.

What you speak of, I am sorry, but I think it is the very least of it.

[madeline_con]

9. I buy American when I can.

It's no mean feat, let me tell you.

I drive a '91 Cavalier that gets excellent mileage. I donate my used clothing and household goods to the local thrift store, and check there first when I need something. I support local people by eating in small family owned restaurants, and have thrown in the towel where Walmart is concerned.

I'm anything but silent about the situation and how it can be changed. I can't be responsible for those who just don't care. I can talk till I'm blue in the face, and there's no changing some people's minds. I just don't want to be lumped in with them. This was put in motion long before I was born. I can only work toward change. :hi:

[debbierlus]

13. I don't doubt you are a good person doing the best you can

My point was that we (as a nation) have allowed horrendous abuses of human rights, so we can live 'better'. We constantly consume what we don't need. We turn a blind eye towards slave labor to make it (are we really against slavery, if we buy the products of slaves?).

Almost everyone is included in this by default. It is when people open their eyes & see that what they consume or their governments war (paid for with OUR money) is contributing to what we decry. It is the awakening process that the country needs to go through - the perception change that Al Gore speaks of so often. If people woke up & committed to the process, it would transform & transcend. Every person (such as yourself) that tries to live honestly & responsibly helps. We need to grow that awareness & understand the impact we all have & speak out loudly against injustice (not just here, but everywhere).

I don't doubt the majority of Americans think their intentions are good and that is enough. But, as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Ironically, here we come back to Dubya because he believes that if he FEELS like he is doing the right thing & works hard with good intention, he is improving the world. But, it doesn't. The consequences are the same, whether he acknowledges the reality or not.

Another example: Many people feel justiifed in any war we wage if they FEEL they are threatened. Our recent culture has seeped so low, we believe preemptive war on a feeling is justified. Or, torture. People feel torture is justified in some circumstances, & will acquiese to the government doing it, (even though it is proven to be highly ineffective) because it makes them feel more secure & they believe something is being done.

[Ghost Dog]

28. But something like "the dominant mentality" amongst Americans, perhaps?

[stellanoir]

3. Yes

We have to ask ourselves, what imbalance in each and every one of us has created this circumstance of such extreme "misleadership."

hmmmmm

[midnight]

10. You don't think it could be Diebold do you?

[debbierlus]

14. Diebold gets away with it because people dismiss election fraud as Conspiracy

It is that easy to take away the votes. Just throw the word conspiracy out there & people will assume those making the claims are lunatics.

[Echo In Light]

22. Yes, and the establishment encourages disbelief in conspiracies for this very reason

Realizing many will obviously take advantage of a self serving, mental short cut. Ignorance is strength/strength in numbers/denial. The gatekeepers who shape the public mind in this direction are well aware of tried and true manipulative tactics and count upon such domino results to better keep official sins and crimes below the mainline radar and out on "the grassy knoll."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. "All politics is local." - Tip O'Neill K&R

Most people don't concern themselves with politics except in the most cursory way because politics doesn't affect them in personal way. Things change, not because of political "leaders", but because of the currents of history.

When, in in the '60s, some of us were disrupting our college classes to protest another war, one professor (a sympathetic one) told us "The war will end when enough people's children come home in body bags, or the average citizen has to reach for his wallet to pay for it."

He was right.

Now, even more than then, the political establishment seems to most people some distant entity that they have no power over and no stake in.

"A government OF the people.." is a neglected concept. Instead we elect "leaders" and turn the government over to them to run and, inevitably, abuse. Lord Acton was right.

A helluva good rant.

[debbierlus]

6. Thanks, I think I offended some people

I am glad you related to it. :)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Your'e welcome. I like posts that challenge people to think.

[debbierlus]

29. He was WONDERFUL.

[xchrom]

8. recommend -- unfortunately it won't get the discussion it deserves.

essentially we're talking about the character of america -- our relationship with our history -- etc.

to most it's boring.

[Karenina]

12. IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST.

Rep Wexler has asked for American citizens' support in his effort to nail the slimebucket. His petition has been up since before Xmas. ALL that is required is a mouse click. Dennis has stuck his neck out to tell the truth, Wexler has followed up. He's got 200,000 sigs when it should be TWENTY MILLION. AMERICANS ARE TOO FUCKING WHATEVER TO EVEN CLICK A MOUSE. :puke:

[debbierlus]

15. It is rather shocking it is only 200,000 people

Kudos to every last one of them. Now, we need to convert at least one friend & get them to pledge to convert one friend & so on & so forth

[Karenina]

16. I cannot express my anger

at the incredible lack of commitment to self-preservation.

[debbierlus]

31. They don't see it

If they actually viewed it as self-preservation, it would change.

[Triana]

11. complacency - we're too comfortable - take away electricity, a/c, suv, beer, teevee..

...internet, clean clothes - if people weren't so comfy (and many aren't but those who are are too complacent) they'd get mad and get involved. It's all about me me me me me me me....if "me me me me" is OK - then "me me me me me me" thinks everything is OK and if someone ELSE isn't (the vet who sleeps under the bridge down the street) well bigga deal. On to watch Survivor and have another beer and hey! look! Britney's kid sister is pregnant and another pretty white girl is missing oh my! Sharks! Oh my! Distraction after distaction. Oh my!

And most folks aren't on the internet. They read the corporat-owned paper, magazines, watch corporate-owned teevee channels, etc. They're drowning in corporate propaganda and can't see or hear anything else. And - complacent - won't go looking at / for anything else either.

Americans - in general - are spoilt, lazy, complacent, and uncurious. LOOK at the president they have. Just LOOK at him. He's just like us (excluding the majority of DUers who are quite involved but we are a minority). Is it any wonder America cannot muster a more progressive, actual Democrat ( REAL Democrat ) into the White House? All they can manage are pseudonyms for one. Pretty, smooth-talking ruses, nicely packaged but when you tear off the wrapper, there's a shitload of corporate money and influence in there. And whatdya know it's the SAME corporate money and influence that IS ALREADY been in Washington for the last 30 years. Nothing different. It's just packaged to LOOK different on the outside. Because after all that's all anyone's gonna look at anyway -- Americans being as uncurious and lazy as they are - buy it whole without question. SURE the damn box is different. BUT DID ANYONE BOTHER TO OPEN IT AND SEE WHAT'S INSIDE before they decided it was REALLY "different"? NO.

And 'elections'? Again we don't have them. Megaconglomerate corporations choose our candidates and our presidents. The megaconglomerate corporate-owned media decides who can debate and participate and who cannot - they decide who they will highlight and talk about on the "news" and who they will not, narrowing OUR choices even more than stupidity, laziness, and complacency.

We have facsimiles of elections. We have ruses for elections. We have PRETENSES of elections. But do we REALLY HAVE ELECTIONS WHERE THE PEOPLE CHOOSE their candidates and presidents?!

NOOOOOOO... We don't and we haven't in a very long time and we may never again.

JUST LIKE our country has gone down the corporate shitter because not enough people were paying attention while the corporations took it from us, our elections went with it.

We SEEM to have them. I mean we go through all the motions - but WHO IS REALLY ELECTING AND CHOOSING OUR LEADERS?

It's NOT "we the people" certainly.

Now, there is ONE candidate that COULD HAVE remedied some of this. ONE CANDIDATE who is fully aware of it and who would and could do something about it. ONE candidate who has EVEN ADDRESSED it and WHO IS NOT part of it.

But his PACKAGING isn't different. It LOOKS the same but what's INSIDE is very very different.

Too bad no one looked in there. The corprats know what's in there and they ignore it or lambaste it. That ought to clue someone in -- but it doesn't.

That one is Edwards. The corprats don't want him so they sheister and ignore him. The lazy, uncurious, complacents just go for the status quo candidates - cause they LOOK different (but aren't) - oh and Survivor comes on in .30 and they don't want to miss it and they never bothered to look at or listen to anything other than MSNBC or Fox or CNN so who else IS there besides HillBama? GottagogasuptheSUVbye....

...and there goes the US of A right down the toilet.

If bu$hit, Inc. and the Republicans didn't destroy the United States of America as we've known it, the (DLC) Democrats and ignorant voters will certainly finish it off, won't they?

Yes. It hurts to see this. It damn sure does.

I'm really sorry.

I'm REALLY ashamed. Like John Edwards, I THOUGHT we were better than this.

[OneBlueSky]

17. "the VAST majority of Americans are NOT active in politics" . . .

from what I hear in day-to-day conversation, most people are not active for two reasons . . .

first, they get all of their information from the corporate media, which means they're either ill-informed, mis-informed, or uninformed . . . they're done trying to make sense of something that is non-sensical, and prefer to focus on their own little corner of the world rather than trying to comprehend the big picture, which to most is thoroughly incomprehensible . . . nothing they see in the real world matches what they've been taught about American democracy, and it's just too much cognitive dissonance for them to handle . . .

and second, they are convinced that no matter who is elected, nothing of any significance will change -- and they're right . . . no matter who is elected, we'll still be occupying Iraq, we still won't have universal healthcare, global warming will continue apace, and the economy will still be heading straight for the crapper . . . so their bottom line is "why bother?" . . .

[Solly Mack]

18. Yep..we didn't get "here" overnight or by accident

and YES..."the people" played a role in that

[baby_mouse]

19. Superb.

Recommended.

[Ghost Dog]

20. Well, Americans tend to get fixated on one issue at a time

(whatever's in the 'media'). Entertainment is king/queen.

Me, briefly with connexion, trying to draw attention to this LTTE: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x191808

Sorry.

edit: Ameicans -> Americans in title. Sorry again.

[Echo In Light]

23. Americans will swallow ANY lie. ANY lie.

[Ghost Dog]

24. Well, without reading or much time for reflection,

Trashed by http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=151441

(I do not use ignore lists). Apologies if necessary to Mods. But...







After all, the op merely referred to a LTTE published in a mainstream international newspaper called The Guardian yesterday. And this op here really says it all. k&r :hi:

[Echo In Light]

25. They choose what to make time for - and it's def not all "necessity" as many would use as a defense

[sendero]

21. Yes..

... people get the government, the foreign policy and the economy they deserve.

I occasionally have conversations with intelligent people who simply and clearly have no clue what is going on, who have only the most superficial and talking-point based idea of our situation.

Politicians like Bush exploit this inattention and easy manipulation. They will continue to do so until people wise up and start demanding better.

I personally believe that there is a silver lining in the economic catastrophe that is looming. It is going to wake a lot of people up. There is going to be a lot anger from folks who believed they understand the game they were playing and were trying to play by the rules. There are going to be a lot of repercussions in the political world, including a mass defection from the Republican party - the party that is mostly to blame for this mess.

The pendulum is about to swing back.

[Echo In Light]

26. Agreed. Having their tax dollars go to dropping bombs on families in other countries

Doesn't make em flinch in the slightest...but impair their ability to watch football on that new BIG SCREEN TV, and them's fightin' words...

[debbierlus]

30. Sad, but true (for many) not all - I say boycott tv

I have often suggested that one of the key ways we could kick them right in the balls is getting rid of the t.v.

It would be huge. If we didn't watch, they couldn't continue to utilize this main avenue of propaganda.

It would be a sacrifice for a very few shows, but how many? You can rent movies & pay to watch your sports on the internet.

Kick em in the teeth. I got rid of cable three years ago, & it was the best thing I ever did. Ever. And, if you have kids, you will be SHOCKED at the change. Apart from being a huge disinformation propaganda tool, it is a big, never ending commercial. Your kids won't even know what to want anymore. It is GREAT!

[debbierlus]

32. Crisis causes change

Often for the better....

Let's hope we have enough time. We are 10 seconds to midnight.

[OneGrassRoot]

27. Sadly, I agree wholeheartedly...

Various efforts I've attempted to engage people - of all ages, in not only politics but simply being more AWARE of social issues - have fallen flat.

I used to think it was defeatism, apathy.

After the last six months, I've come to believe it's simply disinterest. The majority of the people simply DO NOT CARE. The reasons we are like that as a whole are myriad, but the end result is that people no longer care unless it directly impacts them. Even then, rarely are they willing to TAKE ACTION to change the situation.

The influence of media in the dumbing down of America is huge...as are many other influences...but as you said, We allowed it.

I do believe it can change, but I'm not sure the Paris Hilton generation will be the ones to do it.