Why Kerry received lukewarm support from some prominent Dems: BCCI; Hillary is no Kerry

[IdesOfOctober]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=john+kerry+bcci">Senator John Kerry fought a very lonely battle to try to get to the bottom of the BCCI affair.

But his efforts were blocked, blockaded, and stymied by prominent Dems.

Does the name http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=clark+clifford+bcci">Clark Clifford ring a bell?

Well, folks, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mark+penn+sovereign+wealth+funds">Mark Penn, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vernon+jordan">Vernon Jordan, and some other prominent Clinton Inner Circle types should be very fearful of having a real debate about the Who's Who and What's What and $$$'s Where on sovereign wealth funds.

Anytime I hear that Vernon is playing golf with the President, I pay very careful attention to my WSJ the next few days.

Ides

[yurbud]

1. this is one of the things I admired about Kerry & why I was so disappointed in his muddled campaign

Not enough people know this story, but the msm fails to include it in its analysis or background on current events.

[IdesOfOctober]

2. "the msm fails to include"

You meant chooses to ignore, right?

:toast:

Ides

[yurbud]

9. right. they aren't retarded, just corrupt. My bad.

[IdesOfOctober]

13. Imprecision in political discourse and circumcisions can be disastrous.

[CorpGovActivist]

16. !

[yurbud]

19. someone could lose their head...

and spout off.

[IdesOfOctober]

20. The unkindest cut of all.

[mmonk]

3. I'm still connected to Kerry despite his oft

attacked persona here.

[IdesOfOctober]

4. I admire Senator Kerry quite a bit, though I was dissapointed with his endorsement.

[robbedvoter]

5. Kerry received lukewarm support from all of us - it was a pro-war ticket we

found ourselves forced to vote for.
Kerry actually considered apologizing for his vote, but as we now know. Edwards stopped him. Irrelevant to the outcome - he won anyway - but maybe relevant to the lack of fight afterwards.

[IdesOfOctober]

6. "all of us"

Too inclusive. Leave me out.

Ides

[robbedvoter]

7. you liked the war? "all of us - anti-war people" then

and i mean, the ones who opposed war "before it became cool"
But I will remember your fondness for the war in future arguments.

[IdesOfOctober]

8. That wasn't clear.

I strongly supported Kerry/Edwards.

Ides

[karynnj]

11. Me too

He was the candidate I admired the most in my lifetime.

[IdesOfOctober]

15. He's way up there for my list.

[CorpGovActivist]

17. He's Dropped a Notch or Two for Me n/t

[politicasista]

22. Did other Dems drop a notch or two with you when they endorsed others?

Just curious because Kerry has been doing more than most because he expected to save the entire party all by himself, and he doesn't deserve the lack of respect or haters spouting RW talking points because he or anyone but him didn't endorse their preferred candiates. But I understand there is a double standard here when it comes to Kerry endorsing others but no big deal when others endorse other candidates.

[CorpGovActivist]

24. Maybe a Little Reading ...

... would help http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=corpgovactivist+kerry">clarify my strong continued support of Senator Kerry.

- Dave

[politicasista]

25. Thanks for the link

Guess the "lose repect," "let ME down" "I will never support him again" vitriol has gotten tiresome for me. Especially when the senator has done more than most that are lionized (and later discarded) here.


I can understand people are bitter about the endorsement, but I don't see anyone else bitter at others that endorse other candidates, but IMO, I think they are just gunning for Kerry.


Again, thanks and apologies. :hi:

[CorpGovActivist]

26. No Worries...

... as recently as last week, I was still praising him, in spite of the disappointing endorsement.

I thought he did a fine job on This Week this week, especially as it related to how he handled George S.'s attempt to show the clip. I also thought Edwards was remarkably gracious about the whole thing.

- Dave

[politicasista]

27. Thanks

I also want to thank Edwards for being classy in his statement and some of his supporters for their understanding, even though they are disappointed. Some have not been so over the top with their disappointment. :thumbsup:

[CorpGovActivist]

28. His Endorsement Doesn't Detract One Whit...

... from all the hard work he's done (and continues to do) in the Senate.

He has some of the smartest staffers on the Hill, too.

- Dave

[politicasista]

29. That's awesome!

:toast:

[CorpGovActivist]

30. Senator Kerry's a True Open-Government Type

:toast:

- Dave

[politicasista]

32. Yes, he is

:toast:

[IdesOfOctober]

33. David's continued loyalty to Kerry AND Edwards is not atypical for him.

Anyone who knows him knows that for him to actively oppose Hillary, after having been an initial supporter, means that he has damn good reason.

Ides

[karynnj]

10. Edwards didn't stop him

The strongest comments I heard, all from anonymous sources in the campaign is that Edwards lobbied again Kerry speaking against the war. In fact, Kerry spent 2003 and 2004 explaining why, he as one of the strongest voices against attacking Iraq in the summer and Fall of 2002, voted for the resolution. He used the same arguments made in the IWR speech in 2002, which mentioned that the critics (including himself) had already pushed Bush to slow down and go to Congress and the UN, listed Bush's promises - including going to war as a last resort - also mentioned by Biden this year, and said he would speak out if Bush broke those promises. He actually did speak out through the fall and winter.

During 2004, Kerry continued to defend that the vote was reasonable at the time, but he also said he would not have invaded. Kerry said that Bush should have given diplomacy and the inspectors time and not invaded (he called for regime change here) in April 2003, when approval for the war was over 70%. It was clear at various times when he gave his reasons, that he wished he hadn't voted that way.

What Edwards didn't want was what Kerry did - saying at NYU and on Letterman in early September that he would not have gone to war. From then to election day - he must have said "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" thousands of times. He also said it was not a war of last resort. He also spoke of how it diverted attention from Afghanistan.

After 2004, Kerry did - before Edwards, say that his vote was wrong. There was a huge difference between Edwards and Kerry Kerry was never in favor of the invasion, Edwards was. Kerry was wrong giving Bush his vote. If you saw last Sunday's This Week, Kerry dealt with great humility on this issue.

[robbedvoter]

12. It's what I said - Kerry wanted to say it was a bad vote, Edwards disagreed

The campaign never said it was a mistake. as confirmed in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADwjvAs9J-0

[IdesOfOctober]

14. I'm intrigued by the Edwards thing. Any print links?

[karynnj]

21. My point was that Kerry controlled Kerry on that

What I saw in the time frame they were speaking of, late summer. Kerry shifted to not speaking of the vote, but of the actual decision to go to war.

He kept the list he used of how Bush misled us to war without exhausting the diplomacy, without letting the inspectors complete the job, without planning for the peace, without building a real coalition .... that he had used before when speaking of how Bush did not keep his commitment on what he would do if given the authorization. However, he used it with no reference to the IWR vote. He added the stronger "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" and brought back the early 2003 comments of how it diverted resources from Afghanistan. He also mentioned constantly that war of last resort had a meaning to him.

This was a good shift and likely should have been done earlier, though neither Dean in the primaries of Bush in the general election would have let him shift the frame on the choice to go to war from Oct 2002 to March 2003. I think that this shift was better than making the IWR an issue again at that point. 1) Kerry had almost all the antiwar vote, even if it was unenthusiastic. There was very little third party voting and the turn out was high. Kerry got 9 million more votes than Gore. 2) The real question was what is your plan - and that was the main thing Kerry spoke of in detail at NYU. He then summerized it succinctly, ticking off points with the fingers of one hand, on Letterman. (The media said it was the same as Bush's, but it was close to what the ISG recommended 2 years later and not what Bush has done to this day) 3. The other reason was that Kerry was clearly uncomfortable every time he spoke about the IWR. He is an intensely honest person and it looked like, even then, it caused him some pain that he had voted for it. This is not based on anything real - just the fact that his words that usually flow beautifully on everything else, didn't here.

[IdesOfOctober]

34. I am curious to see where people are getting that Edwards swayed Kerry on the recount.

[sandnsea]

35. Here

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/17/john_edwardss_changing_tune_on_the_iraq_vote/

It is also what I observed. I recall Edwards on the Hardball college tour, specifically, standing by that vote. He always stood by it. Even after 2004, he also stood by the intelligence and never said Bush lied about the intelligence. He said he relied on the Clintons. Well yeah, they supported the war, look at the DLC position.

But Karynn is right, the real issue is the invasion and the position on the war over the years. If you weren't standing up railing against invading leading up to the invasion, and I mean very clearly, then don't tell me you opposed the war.

[IdesOfOctober]

36. Thanks. After re-reading, I goofed.

I thought there was a suggestion that Edwards stopped Kerry from pursuing a challenge in Ohio.

This is about apologizing for the IWR or not in 2004.

Apologies.

Ides

[sandnsea]

38. What has Edwards said about the LV caucus?

Frankly I don't buy the whole notion that Edwards wanted to fight in Ohio either. He's had plenty of opportunity to get involved in election reform and has done nothing about it. Kerry is the one who has introduced legislation and regularly addresses voting issues. If Edwards is sincere about election fraud, what has he done about the LV disenfranchisement?

[IdesOfOctober]

39. What Edwards has said and done.

http://www.johnedwards.com/search/?mode=perform_search&keywords=nevada">Unlike Clinton's website, Edwards' is searchable.

Ides

[sandnsea]

40. I don't see any comment against the voter disenfranchisement

I am serious, I would really like to believe he made a statement and I missed it. This law suit was the epitomy of the kind of politics we have got to get rid of. Where is Edwards on it?

[IdesOfOctober]

41. What search terms did you use?

I'll try not to duplicate, and see if I can find something for you.

Ides

[sandnsea]

42. nevada caucus and disenfranchisement, thanks n/t

[IdesOfOctober]

43. While I continue to search, who do you think has the best public position on this so far?

[AntiFascist]

18. K&R...

I've also read from several sources that Vince Foster was tied up in BCCI, but even the Republicans won't go there.

[IdesOfOctober]

37. BCCI's statutes of limitations have not run out yet.

[IdesOfOctober]

45. Will a Clinton III pursue?

[opihimoimoi]

23. When Kerry went for Joe...it was all down hill after that....Peeps knew even then...

[IdesOfOctober]

31. !

[IdesOfOctober]

44. Funny, how nobody likes to talk about Vernon Jordan.

He's Clark Clifford with a better golf game.

Ides