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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 07:59 AM
Original message
Blue-Collar Jobs Disappear, Taking Families’ Way of Life Along
January 16, 2008
Blue-Collar Jobs Disappear, Taking Families’ Way of Life Along
By ERIK ECKHOLM

JACKSON, Ohio — After 30 years at a factory making truck parts, Jeffrey Evans was earning $14.55 an hour in what he called “one of the better-paying jobs in the area.” Wearing a Harley-Davidson cap, a bittersweet reminder of crushed dreams, he recently described how astonished and betrayed he felt when the plant was shut down in August after a labor dispute. Despite sporadic construction work, Mr. Evans has seen his income reduced by half. So he was astonished yet again to find himself, at age 49, selling off his cherished Harley and most of his apartment furniture and moving in with his mother.

Middle-aged men moving in with parents, wives taking two jobs, veteran workers taking overnight shifts at half their former pay, families moving West — these are signs of the turmoil and stresses emerging in the little towns and backwoods mobile homes of southeast Ohio, where dozens of factories and several coal mines have closed over the last decade, and small businesses are giving way to big-box retailers and fast-food outlets.

Here, where the northern swells of the Appalachians lap the southern fringe of the Rust Belt, thousands of people who long had tough but sustainable lives are being wrenched into the working poor. The region presents an acute example of trends affecting many parts of Ohio, Michigan and other pockets of the Midwest. Slammed by the continued decline in the automobile and steel businesses, Ohio never recovered from the recession of 2001-2, and blue-collar families who had made it partway up the economic ladder find themselves slipping back, with chaotic effects on families and dreams.

Throughout the state, the percentage of families living below the poverty line — just over $20,000 for a family of four last year — rose slightly from 14 percent in 2005 to 16 percent in 2007, one study found. But equally striking is the rise in younger working families struggling above that line. The numbers are more dismal in the southeastern Appalachian part of the state, where 32 percent of families lived below the poverty line in 2007, according to the study, and 56 percent lived with incomes less than $40,000 for a family of four. “These younger workers should be the backbone of the economy,” said Shiloh Turner, study director for the Health Foundation of Greater Cincinnati, which conducted the surveys. But in parts of Ohio, Ms. Turner said, half or more “are barely making ends meet.”

One consequence is an upending of the traditional pattern, in which middle-aged children take in an elderly parent. As $15-an-hour factory jobs are replaced by $7- or $8-an-hour retail jobs, more men in their 30s and 40s are moving in with their parents or grandparents, said Cheryl Thiessen, the director of Jackson/Vinton Community Action, which runs medical, fuel and other aid programs in Jackson and Vinton Counties...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/us/16ohio.html
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Broadslidin Donating Member (949 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sure, the 'blue collars' will still be able to borrow the money for the 50" flat screen TV.
Awaiting :nuke: :patriot: :nuke: Further Orders
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. What the fuck kind of comment was that? You don't understand do you
Outsourcing and the uprooting of manufacturing jobs is ruining this country and you crack a joke about flat screen tvs?

Two words, and they aren't Merry Christmas. I don't give a shit what your comeback is.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
27. Ditto! Only I'd make it three words, some people can be plain aesels...
this article brought me to tears this morning and I ain't no crier. These are the people who will eventually bring change to this country.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
42. I think he's being sarcastic...
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #42
56. I doubt it, no guts to reply
Fucking lurkers who think Middle class America is there to serve them. Fuck 'em all :mad:
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Or put food on their credit cards at 18-23% interest.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
45. hahaha!! Fugg gug gug gugg YOOOOOOOOOO!
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
54. What a friggin jerk
What the hell are you doing here?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. Congratulations ... I guess that's the Son of "Welfare Cadillac"
All it takes is some Big Lie and folks fall right in line.

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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. The blue collar jobs disappeared a long time ago.
Did the NYT finally pull its head out of the sand? Now even the white collar jobs are disappearing.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Not all of them
People are still going to need plumbers, appliance repairmen, heating and AC repairmen, roofers, and other skilled tradesmen.

If a kid is going to go into debt for an education, a trade school debt is one he can reasonably expect to pay off, even in a recession/depression. A 2 year business degree at night will afford him/her the skills needed to open an independent shop eventually as things improve.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. When are things going to improve for these people?
Have things ever improved in Buffalo or Rochester NY? How about Detroit?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. C'mon, we've had 38 years of conservatism from both parties
and you can't turn that around on a dime. Things are likely to get a whole lot worse before they start getting any better, and they're going to have to get better from the bottom up, not the top down.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. So everyone should become trades people NOW? Right
I guess you aren't aware of the housing sector depression? The trade fields are already crowded to the point where decent livings are pinched, and the large firms are swallowing up the independents. Or I guess you didn't notice that either? I work where these guys are coming in every week trying to sell us back their trucks because they can't make the payments any longer, or trading them in for small cars so they can get McJobs.


Don't tell me it's the fault of the Dems, too many lurkers here have already tried that.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I'm not talking about new construction
I'm talking about repair. People are going to need to limp old appliances/houses/plumbing/heating systems through the next few years. The days of buying new on credit are gone for the time being, as well they should be.

That's why I'm talking about trades.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. There is no surge coming, home equity is tapped out
The splurge in buying home improvements ended almost two years ago. No weaseling out here, appliances are barely worth repairing any more. And the used guys by me, who bought appliances from repossessed homes (or acquired them by other means) are stuffed with them, so that taps out the repair potential even further.

We are in deep shit this time. No easy way out, period.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. I agree, home improvement will be a lean business for..
the foreseeable future. My s.o. is in the commercial building repair business, and they are seeing their business fall off.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
34. yes
new appliances now are simply put - crap. in the past, you could count on them lasting for a bit, but almost every new appliance, large or small, that i've purchased recently has failed shortly after purchase. dunno if it's because they're all MADE IN CHINA, but that's what i've noticed!
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
64. My 5-year old dryer went kaput this last weekend
It was cheaper to replace it than to fix it.
Of note...that 5 year old dryer replaced one that was over 20-years old.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. exactly
what i am talking about! my 3 year old fridge has had problems since day 1!
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
71. there is a glut of repair people
at least in this market
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. How long before undocumented workers do these jobs too?
I remember when bricklayers were highly paid skilled workers who had to apprentice. It's mostly immigrants doing that now, and I'm sure many of them don't have their papers.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
35. They've over-run the residential market, and....
Are gaining traction in the commercial market, in all trades. Skilled tradesman are being forced out of jobs, because they cannot afford to make up for the large wage and benefit loss and move their families into a one room apartment with 20 other people. Nobody cares, as long as the illegals are allowed to provide for their families.

With the Democratic Party's position on illegal immigration, they still cannot figure out why so many working people vote against their best interests.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. If you cracked down hard on the employers..
and passed stricter fair wage and benefit laws, the "illegal immigrant" problem would disappear. I guarantee it.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. Cracking down hard on employers alone would do it.
Word would get out fast that nobody was hiring them anymore, so they would stop coming. Those already here could not afford to stay and would return home on their own money, since nobody would hire them.

Yet our Dear Leaders in Washington D.C. cannot figure this out. Or, perhaps they are in the pockets of the Corporations and Special Interest groups that benefits from them not figuring it out.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
33. service oriented society
that's what they have been telling us was going to happen for quite awhile now. we're being "banana-republiced".
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. There is a huge difference between "manufacturing" burgers
or pounding a cash register at Wally's and being able to fix a complicated plumbing system, which is why the latter pays better. The latter also has the potential of eventually opening up his own shop, and that's where the ladder to a middle class life might lie.

It's sure not coming from going into debt for 4 years of liberal arts only to find out one's plum job is going to be outsourced within 6 months.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
80. glass guy
They can do quite well, too. The other day I went early to the local glass shop. I arrived before they opened the store. While waiting in the parking lot I saw one Mercedes drive up. Then another. And another.

It was the three brothers who own the place.

Granted, it's an established business. Still, supporting three guys, each in a Mercedes, says something.



Cher
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Blue-collar jobs have been gone so long its classification is barely mention.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. The big question is...
How many of these folks are voting against their own economic interests? Inquiring minds want to know.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. YES, finally someone has asked the crucial question.
They have been voting not so that they can eat and support themselves, but so that others cannot get married, or so that other nations can be invaded -- nations full of the same poor people like them, and so more money can go to the subjugation of those people just like them.

We are so very, very fucked.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. But what have the Dems done for blue collar workers during that time?
Let's see

allowing Reagan to fire the air traffic controllers?

not providing debt relief to the farmers of the Midwest during the farm foreclosure crisis?

NAFTA?

More trade agreements with more countries?

Welfare reform, so that there's a lifetime limit on how long a person can get welfare?

The fact is, a lot of farmers and blue collar workers ARE socially conservative, and the Republicans at least played to that aspect.

What did the Dems give them? Acquiescence to Republican class warfare on the middle class and trade agreements that encourage the shipment of jobs overseas.

I bet there are more farmers and blue collar workers who don't vote at all than those who vote Repubican.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
41. Bingo!
The Democratic Party screwed the pooch if they thought these people had any interest or stake in their chic special interest group causes and efforts.

Instead of going after these people and offering help, they were slapped in the face and called rednecks, homophobic, ignorant, uneducated, insignificant, etc. etc.

Now, for anyone wanting to challenge this.... Has the Democratic Party really supported the Working Class the last thirty years or have they been more interested in their pet causes that did nothing for the Working Class? Stop representing the Working Class, people do not see a difference between Parties, and Democrats lose elections, and people know when it's only a symbolic effort that still screws them over. Understand now?
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
68. You forgot the bankruptcy bill. The killing blow.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Right!
I'm sure you're familiar with the lack of bankruptcy protection for individuals in Japan and the way it forces people underground.



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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. White middle aged rural guys...hmmmmm
probably a lot of them still listen to Rush and blame Clinton and Pelosi for all of their troubles. Hopefully they'll wake up soon.

I also wonder; why is it that it's more often middle aged MEN who are moving back in with their parents instead of middle aged women? There are more single middle aged women out there, and we tend to still be paid .60 on a man's $1.00. :shrug:
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Maybe because they're divorced and were accustomed to having their
wives do all the budgeting and figuring out how to feed a family of four on a pittance.

A lot of traditional men can't cook or run a household. When they're alone, their default option is to eat out, which is sustainable only if you have a pretty good income. If you don't, you have to move in with some woman, such as a mother or sister, so you can get fed.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
49. You are probably right
I know a lot of "traditional" (sexist right wing) man/boys down here in Florida. They never needed a wife, just a "mommy" to take care of them (which is the role their wives take on until they get sick of it). My fully adult male friends always say "guys like that make me ashamed of my gender"!
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
63. income is not everything, must be able to take care of ones self
these guys were never taught this: someday they would be on their own, either through death or divorce. What will the guys do when their aging parents are unable to care for them, and instead are need of care themselves?

For the most part, "modern" women are raised to run a household on their own. This means cooking, checkbook balancing, basic knowledge about the machinery that surrounds life (cars, appliances, computers, etc.) and most importantly, a willingness To Ask for Directions/Help.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. Back when I was doing personal ads
I used to be approached by men ten to twenty years older than I.

I suspected that they were looking for someone to take care of them in their old age, so I never answered.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
59. Many, I am guessing. The same ones who hate Unions, even though they are members.
:crazy:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
74. There is a bigger question
Do these people actually have a party that supports their economic interests?
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Kindigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
11. I've worn out my welcome at ma's
The foreclosure debacle has priced the disabled out of the rental market. I've been in my elderly parents' spare room since November. Next week, I'm moving on to my 31 year old daughter's house. She was divorced last year, and is desperately trying to hang on to her house. She already has her boss, bosses hubby, and their two boys living with her, and my granddaughter.

In other news: we recently had a house fire locally. Three single mothers with fourteen children escaped from a three bedroom apartment.

It's getting ugly out here.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. My condolences. If I win the lottery I will find you
I promise. No parent should go through that, none.:cry: :hug:
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
15. That's the price to be paid for efficiency and globalization
It's not about people having work to do. It's about cogs maximizing production. That's it. That's all it is. That's all it will continue to be if we keep doing the same things. Since we would not only need a very different economy to do something different, but a different view of life to do something different, it's only going to get worse. If we have cheap enough energy, more people will find themselves running around without knowing where to go. If energy becomes too expensive, the economy has more potential slaves today than it ever has before.

It's not about Americans. There is no America. There is no India, or China, or anywhere for that matter. Want easy travel? Want global communication? Well, when jobs can be done anywhere thanks to two aspects of life such as that, then I don't get why we're all shocked or angry about it. You have to take the good with the bad. Everyone isn't going to get everything.

If your job can be done elsewhere, and at a cheaper price, it will be. Why? Because it isn't about your job. It's about the job getting done.

You, like nuts and bolts, are interchangeable. We live in an increasingly global economic system, where you are not unique. You have been standardized, by both the corporation and the state, like everyone else, so that you can be replaced...easily.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Hey, thanks.
Now I'm fucking depressed.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. More like undermining the American worker
A law firm that thought it was demonstrating its cleverness in posting videos of its conference on business immigration instead showed how they cynically stack the deck against American job seekers for their clients.

UC Davis professor Norm Matloff has long sounded the clarion call that the H-1B program and green cards have numerous loopholes employers can exploit. That exploitation allows them to easily avoid hiring more expensive American workers, particularly older ones, in favor of cheap foreign labor.

Videos from a Cohen & Grigsby event held in Pittsburgh on May 15th made it onto YouTube. The series of videos as described by Dr. Matloff proved to be more than just a promotional effort for the law firm:

This set of videos gave a dramatic inside look at some of the loopholes, especially in the case of the employer-sponsored green cards. Here you have lawyers openly stating that their goals are to (a) help employers avoid hiring Americans, and (b) help employers hire foreign nationals on the cheap--and to do all this FULLY LEGALLY.

YouTube Videos Reveal Anti-American Outsourcing
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Senior Citizens working Retail and Service jobs!
This bugs the crap out of me. I had a nice elderly man, easily close to eighty, helping me at Sears the other day. I kept looking at him thinking he should be home enjoying retirement. I see it all of the time at the grocery, senior citizens bagging and running a register. I have quizzed a few who I dared and found they mostly need the money, it isn't boredom like some of my freeper relatives have suggested. It is just fucking depressing. :(
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I'm not a freeper and I do say that seniors work partially out of boredom.
I am 68 and working full-time. I could retire, but what would I do? Sit at home and watch TV all day?
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
37. hobbies, volunteering
ever thought of that? there are lots more things to do besides teevee :eyes:
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. No one addresses the true picture of the job market.
We have more graduates than new jobs created, plus, seniors can no longer retire after Enron robbed pensions and other 'wealth transfer' schemes.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
36. we have an 80+ year old
woman working in our office. she "retired", but had to return because of finances....sad:(
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. Then please tell me, Ohio, why did you go red in the last Presidential election?
Was it the fear of the same-sex marriage ads being run on television? Was it the fear that terrorists were going to break down the door and seize the children?

How were you so misled?
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. IIRC, the 2004 Ohio election was tainted with fraud.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Tainted? Along with FL, it was a test case on how to install a political dynasty. n/t
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Agreed.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. It sure was
That's why the Greens and Libertarians contested it. They found all sorts of nasty things going on.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #24
79. Thank you! Ohio was stolen, so lets blame the voters. Some twisted logic in here. n/t
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
38. Same as Jackson, Michigan.
People are really hurting, and the poor are dying, and the media is still wondering whether it's a recession or not. Grrr!
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
39. Another recommendation. It's a dayum shame what this country has become,...
,...a corporatocracy with NO heart for the opportunities necessary to BEEEE a democracy.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
46. This is not America...
This is not America, sha la la la la

A little piece of you
The little peace in me
Will die
For this is not America

Blossom fails to bloom
This season
Promise not to stare
Too long
For this is not the miracle

There was a time
A storm that blew so pure
For this could be the biggest sky
And I could have
The faintest idea

This is not america, no, this is not, sha la la la la]

Snowman melting
From the inside
Falcon spirals
To the ground
So bloody red
Tomorrow's clouds

A little piece of you
The little piece in me
Will die
For this is not America

There was a time
A wind that blew so young
For this could be the biggest sky
And I could have the faintest idea

This is not america, no, this is not, sha la la la
This is not america, no, this is not
This is not america, no, this is not, sha la la la]
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
47. Didn't Bush win Ohio in the last election?
Hmmmm... seems pretty ironic. You reap what you sow... that's how it goes.

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VenusRising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. More like stole Ohio.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. * STOLE Ohio in 04 & STOLE 2000.
The workers of this country have been screwed by * & Co.

Guess what? You or someone in your family is next.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. Why don't you educate yourself on Ohio's voting patterns...
... before making such an ignorant statement? Appalachian Ohio is a Dem stronghold. Get a clue and some compassion.
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. You are completely wrong
"Presidential politics: Jackson County supported George W. Bush in the last two presidential elections. According to unofficial vote totals for 2004, Bush received 8,382 votes and Kerry received 5,519 votes.

In the November 2000 race, Jackson County supported Bush. Countywide, 6,958 people voted for Bush and 5,131 voted for Gore. Nader received 222 votes."

http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/politicalInfo.php?locIndex=16921



Bush increased his popularity 2004 vs. 2000. I have absolutely no compassion in this case.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #62
73. Read my post again, why don't you?
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 06:11 PM by theHandpuppet
I'm talking about Appalachian Ohio, not just Jackson County.

Where was Bush's support the weakest in 2004 -- here's the map. I'm sure you can figure out where Appalachian Ohio is located.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/P/00/map.html

Also, how do you know this man didn't vote for Kerry? Sounds like he's a union man to me. But of course, you don't give a rat's ass about him because he's from Ohio and because Bush stole Ohio everyone living there can go to hell, Dem or not. Nice.

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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #62
77. Those figures you've posted are hardly "Bush stronghold", are they?
Besides that, since when is compassion divied up to only those who sport the right ideal? Should the homeless have to declare a political persuasion before they're allowed into breadlines? Do refugees have to wave the correct flag before they're given safe haven?

After suffering thru the nineties, I'm sure some of these people thought they had good reasons for abandoning the principles of once Democratic Ohio. The Democratic Party once stood solidly for the working class and Ohio respected that and voted accordingly...when the party decided that workers no longer mattered and began enacting policies that affected their livelihoods, these people took notice...it was felt throughout that region.

None of us are ever gonna manage to stand up together with common cause to defeat the conservative right-wing as long as we allow petty differences or stupid prejudices or outright bigotry to keep us divided. Defeating narrow-mindedness does not come about by becoming close-minded.
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
50. remember to thank the Friedmans for your stay in Free Market Hell...
Milton -- and Thomas, his cognitively-challenged apostle at the NYT.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
51. There has been a bipartisan effort to strip this country of a manufacturing, blue collar sector
And it has by and large succeeded. Reagan/Bush started this change, which was greatly accelerated under Clinton with NAFTA. Now we're well into the second or even third round of globalization, and our manufacturing sector is nearly gone. Instead we've seen the rise of service sector jobs, which pay less, have fewer benefits, and fewer labor unions.

Sadly, especially looking at this year's candidates, this trend is going to continue. How the hell they expect to keep an economy so heavily dependent on consumer spending running well when the consumers are getting paid very little is beyond me.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. It's not "service sector"
It's more like SERFish sector. But if I remember correctly, serfs were tied to a piece of land, so in theory, they could never be homeless. It might have been a hovel out of sight of the main estate, but it still kept out most of the rain.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
52. Looks like we'll be going back to the days of several generations living under one roof.
I have a handy man who does odd little jobs for me ...he and his wife do that is and he told me he worked 30 years for a mill in Southern Illinois. That mill went bankrupt and he and all the employees lost their pensions. He's 58 years old and has NOTHING after giving his most of his working life to that company. He and his wife do handy man jobs to keep afloat (they're AWESOME).

Right before Christmas he had a major heart attack and was in the hospital for 10 days....WITH NO INSURANCE! He said they usually tried to work 12-14 hour days in December because they could then save enough money for the bills through their slow time in January & February, but now they have no money and he can't work. His wife is doing small jobs she can handle alone, like painting and wallpaper, but that's about it. He has to have another procedure done on his heart vessels and will not be able to work for another month. He said he had to go back to work ASAP or they would be filing for bankruptcy because they have no money. NONE. ZERO. ZIP. Their church raised a whopping $2000 for them right after his heart attack, but that was gone a long time ago. Doesn't look like the faith based community came through for him.:( Wasn't that the psycho's plan...no "entitlement" programs because the churches would always pitch in and help??? That doesn't seem to have worked out in this case. Surprise, surprise.

Luckily, they have children who will probably be able to take them in. Mom, Dad, their kids and the grand kids all living under the same roof. This is how people lived years and years ago. 20s, 30s and 40s. Back to the good old days, eh?

These people cannot be out of office soon enough for me.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. On a related note...
From the Portsmouth Daily Times (Scioto County)

http://www.portsmouth-dailytimes.com/articles/2008/01/1...
Poverty rate is second highest

Friday, January 11, 2008 10:44 PM EST

Study: Scioto levels at 25.3 percent, Athens County ranks first

By FRANK LEWIS
PDT Staff Writer

A full quarter of Scioto County residents are living in poverty, according to a U.S. Census study just released.

The report, which analyzed data from 2005, indicates poverty is worsening in the region.

In the latest figures released by the U.S. Census, Scioto County is shown to have a poverty level of 25.3 percent, compared to 18.9 percent in 2004.

<snipping>

Anita Casper, director of The Potter's House Ministry - on Winchester Avenue in Sciotoville, said there is a recent phenomenon the ministry has not seen in the past at the food bank.

“We are seeing more of the working class coming in,” she said. “That's a new trend for us. More of the working class not making ends meet.”

Casper said The Potter's House is providing food for people who may have more than one job.

“Some of these people are working a minimum wage and sometimes two minimum wage jobs, and they still can't make ends meet,” she said.

Much more... this is a MUST READ article.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. Thank you for that! Everybody should read it!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
58. Keep voting repub and repub lite.
:woohoo: :banghead:
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
61. How do we give a human face to poverty?
During the Depression, it was possible to go into Appalachia with nothing but a black and white camera and make people care.

Now, with all our resources, why are these people so invisible? Why isn't there anyone blogging from the heart of poverty? Why aren't there videos going up on YouTube every day, talking with these people, showing what their lives are like, documenting the way they live?

The elite and semi-elite of this nation are able to keep up the juggling act only by pretending everybody else doesn't exist. And for the most part, tv, and advertising, and even the internet maintain that pretense.

How do we change that? How do we make poverty as inescapable as it was in the 30's, when FDR could say in his second inaugural address, "I see one-third of a nation ill-housed, ill-clad, ill-nourished" and promise, "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5105)

How do we make that happen again?

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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
69. Within 10 miles of where I live in New Hampshire, there used to be
a major book binding plant, a factory that made Dunham shoes, a factory that made good quality leather handbags, a couple of paper product companies - hundreds and hundreds of jobs that paid well and had good benefits. All gone. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why the economy has gone to hell.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
72. Kick for reality
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
76. Kick
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
78. Brainwashed and twisting in the wind....
Lots of my fellow workers support and plan on voting for what ever corporate puppet the Thug party puts up for nomination this fall.

Lots of them. I'm in the minority at work and Rush Limbaugh is their god!

A person that works for a living and votes rethuglian might as well put a gun to his head and get it over with, IMHO!
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. Does the article indicate how these folk voted?
And if it did, would that make their plight something to sneer at or blame them for? I don't understand your comments on this issue.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. You got that right, same where I work
The dumbest poorest slobs think Bush is right, no matter their status.
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