One last time...the difference between Hillary and george jr....

[cynatnite]

Hillary


***************************************************

bush



If you still think they are alike check out http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm for specifics. Their records will indicate Hillary has a strong liberal voting record and that bush's is the RW nutjob one. Complete opposites.

Anyone who says Hillary is bush-lite, repug-light or anything but what her record reflects is either a liar or willfully ignorant.

[peace13]

1. Sorry.

You have to be realistic about her position on the run up to the war. She sold us down the river with *'s war. Look at the old videos and see for yourself. Her words, her world. Now we are living in a world of despair. I would not consider myself a liar or ignorant. You my friend need to look at the record and watch your candidate in action in videos that clearly state the position she has taken in the past five years.

[cynatnite]

4. It's disingenuous to say she's bush-lite based on the IWR...

a lot of dems voted for it. She is nothing like bush or the rest of the repukes.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Most Dems Voted Against It

Seems like the Dems that voted for it were senators who'd soon run for president, who believed that pandering for political gain was more important than insane war.

Elevating these sociopaths to the presidency is absurd.

[Yurovsky]

18. She is little more than a subsidiary of Haliburton ...

if she were the liberal woman of great character that you paint her as, she would have actually DONE something (lead the move to impeach, personally filibuster to prevent continued war funding, oppose the green lighting of attacking Iran, etc).

Look, I know she's pro-choice, and I'm glad. I know in her heart of hearts, there beats a liberal heart. She has been a part of great causes in the past (impeachment of Nixon, clerking for Robert Truehaft, pushing for universal health care in 1993, etc). But ever since she ran for the Senate, she has run aggressively towards the DLC-friendly center, AWAY from the direction that the Democrat party was headed.

To make matters worse, her "running to the center/right", won't do her any good. Her negatives are so high among the right wing nuts that she'll pick up precious few crossover votes. Obama, and even Edwards, have a better shot of getting disenfranchised independents and yes, even some republicans, to vote Democrat this November.

Hillary will grab defeat from the jaws of victory. Mark it down. And even if she is elected, she is probably the last of the Dem candidates (including those who've dropped out) who would back a speedy withdrawal from the illegal occupation of Iraq. Furthermore, her & Bills palsy-walsy relationship to Chimpy & chimp pere indicate that she will not seek to bring him to justice for the flagrant and widespread human rights violations of the current (illicit, never truly elected) regime.

If you want the cowboy diplomacy to end and American troops to come home, vote Obama. If you want Haliburton & Blackwater to continue to rape & pillage Iraqis & American taxpayers, vote Hillary. It's as simple as that.

[DutchLiberal]

26. There's no difference between Obama and HRC when it comes to 'cowboy diplomacy'...

or getting the troops out. Or did you forget they both wouldn't commit to get the troops out of Iraq before 2013? And did you forget all of Obama's warmongering with regard to Pakistan?

[DutchLiberal]

24. Not only on the IWR. What about the Patriot Act? Or 'all options on the table' with Iran?

Or what about her taking money from Rupert Murdoch and big corporations?

[leftchick]

9. How about a year ago?

and this is different from cheney and the neocons how? I agree with you, her foreign policy sucks and will suck america dry.....

<snip>

This is a moment of great difficulty for Israel and great peril for Israel, for the U.S. and for free and democratic nations. Israel is confronting many of the toughest challenges in her history, in a neighborhood that is less secure than ever. At this moment of peril, what is vital is that we stand by our friend and our ally and we stand by our own values. Israel is a beacon of what's right in a neighborhood overshadowed by the wrongs of radicalism, extremism, despotism and terrorism. We need only look to one of Israel's greatest threats: namely, Iran. Make no mistake, Iran poses a threat not only to Israel, but to the entire Middle East and beyond, including the U.S. I don't need to remind this group that about a month ago the Iranian government hosted a conference in Tehran whose sole purpose was to deny the Holocaust.

Now that conference was beyond the pale of international discourse and acceptable behavior and we must not treat this situation as business as usual. The gathering was hosted by the leader of the member of a United Nations state and by a leader that has raised serious international concerns over his country's nuclear ambitions and who has called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

To deny the Holocaust places Iran's leadership in company with the most despicable bigots and historical revisionists. It is an insult, not only to a memory of the millions of Jews who suffered and died in the Shoah but also to the troops of the U.S. and its allies, who in the fight to liberate Europe from Nazism bore witness to the reality of the Holocaust.

Such comments add greater urgency to the necessity to doing everything we can to deny nuclear weapons to Iran. The regime's pro-terrorist, anti-American, anti-Israeli rhetoric only underscores the urgency of our response to the threat we face.

U.S. policy must be clear and unequivocal. We cannot, we should not, we must not, permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons. And in dealing with this threat as I have said for a very long time, no option can be taken off the table.

http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/news/statements/record.cfm?id=268474

Domestic issues will be irrelevant if the US continues to pour our tax dollars into forever wars for "our (and Israel's) National Security Interests".

[leftchick]

38. no one ever responds to this to defend her

this is no different than cheney's view of Israel and the mideast. Pure neocon bullshit! No one can defend the indefensible.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Fraudulent Methodology

Most bills are of relatively minor importance, and a few are of huge importance. The Clintons stay left on the less-consequential ones, but go hard right on things like the IWR and "free" trade with China - they do this so they can tell the left that they vote left most of the time, but can reassure their patrons in the Prdator Class that they can be counted on for the things that really matter.



Clinton is consistantly to the far right on the few things that really matter.

[cynatnite]

5. Really?

Have you bothered looking at where she is at on abortion, civil rights, environment, education and other issues? If you check it out you'll find she's no different than Edwards and Obama on those specific issues....

or do those not matter?

[MannyGoldstein]

7. War And "Free" Trade With China Are The Two Most Important Issues In Decades

The rest is of some importance, but her positions are not much different than many Republicans.

[cynatnite]

11. Be specific...

Which ones?

I've had issues with her positions on the war and aside from a few votes in that regard, it still doesn't maker some sort of bush supporter as some like to insinuate.

This is how I see it...

I never expect any candidate's stances to reflect mine 100% of the time. Edwards and Obama are no different. They've said things and supported things that are polar opposite of what I believe. It's a matter of taking the bad with the good in a candidate.

Hillary Clinton gets held to a different standard than the rest of them, IMO, when she acts no differently.

BTW, those ones I mentioned are very important to me. What's not so important to you may very well be different for someone else.

[SaveAmerica]

34. dupe

[SaveAmerica]

35. If she's no different then them on those issues, her Iraq and Iran votes tip the scale against her

And those are big issues to have against you when we need to get this country back on the right track.

[TahitiNut]

17. I agree ... but it's a waste of time and electrons to ask folks to comprehend that.

The fraud is most telling in the magnification of topological 'distance' - streeetching the terrain like rubber. For my OWN peace of mind and perspective, I've spent agreat deal of time examining the fundamental positions and postures - looking at the votes and array of stance - and still feel QUITE confident in the Poltical Compass portrayal. Nothing is 'perfect' but the Political Compass is far closer to the kind of "ideological DNA test' I'm inclined to value.

[mondo joe]

22. This graph tells me (as if I didn't know) that Edwards is closest to me of the 3 leading

contenders, but that if it comes down to Hillary vs Obama, Hillary is slightly preferable though there's not a lot of difference between the two.

[TahitiNut]

28. That indicates to me that you are far less appreciative of the economic postures ...

... than I am. I see as large a harm created by the "Plantation Corporatists" as I do by the "Evangelical Dominionists" ... perhaps even larger. It's certainly more widespread.

I would agree with you EXCEPT I'd reverse the Obama/Clinton 'marginally better' equation. I still have a STRONG inclination to write-in "Dennis Kucinich" if Clinton is the nominee ... and MAYBE if Obama is the nominee. If Edwards is the nominee, I'll vote for him ... but NOWHERE nearly as gladly as I'd vote for Kucinich.

[mondo joe]

32. Sure. I care about authoritarian/libertarian, as well as left/right. But that said,

the difference between Obama and Clinton on left/right is smaller than the difference on authoritarian/libertarian.

So while I don't think there's a LARGE difference between the two, if this is graph is reliable that is the character of the difference.

[hfojvt]

43. I am not sure how Gravel got so far left on that chart

considering that he is promoting the same UnFairTax as Huckabee.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. K&R.

She's most definitely a liberal, and though maybe not a perfect one, still one I support.

[Richard Steele]

8. Simply not true.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

10. There was a link with the OP's graphic ...

where's yours?

[SIMPLYB1980]

16. Good question?

I 've wondered that every time someone posts that graph. Will you get an answer?

[TahitiNut]

19. Huh?? Have you been living under a mossy rock?

The Political Compass has been EXTENSIVELY discussed on DU and hundreds of DUers have taken it. A person would have to be living with their head up ther butt to have not seen it - and totally clueless about Google besides.

Here's where the chart is ... http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

Here's the ideological scoring of hundreds of DUers...

[uppityperson]

33. right click on the image, copy the link. Delete the imaging part to get to webpage

Like this. Here is the image link, with a couple spaces between main website and image bit. To see image, delete the spaces. To go to website, click on that part. This is possible with many images. Just for future reference.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/ images/usprimaries_2008.png

[SaveOurDemocracy]

36. Thanks, uppity ;o)

[cynatnite]

12. Interesting...she's bunched there with Edwards and Obama n/t

[mondo joe]

13. So she's about as left/right as Edwards, Biden and Obama, but less Authoritarian.

Okay. :-)

[TahitiNut]

20. It's "telling" that folks fail to appreciate the Left/Right (economic) measure of that chart.

Corporatism. "Might Makes Right" and selling out 'democracy' to the corporatocracy.

[Hydra]

14. Thank you for that, Dick

Nice to see the truth put out there once in awhile

[Hydra]

15. Our three top tiers are pro-war

Since the world is not really in need of more war, 'nuff said.

[rockybelt]

21. I am neither a liar nor Ignorant

Alike? No. Hillary is taller and blonde.
As the President of the US? NO!

[DutchLiberal]

23. I don't care what the test says. HRC is neither left nor liberal. (n/t)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. That's nice. I'm still not voting for her. See IWR, Kyl/Lieberman votes for reasons.

[cynatnite]

29. I don't have a problem with folks not voting for her...

I should have said so in the OP. It's understandable why some won't based on the IWR and other votes. I just think it's wrong to say she's like bush when in fact she's not.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. I'm not voting for her because she's like Hillary.

[leftofthedial]

27. or talking about her record on the invasion and occupation of Iraq

and the elimination of civil liberties

and alliance with corporate lobbyists

[TahitiNut]

31. Why do you hate America?

:rofl: :rofl:

[Wizard777]

37. I call BUSH SHIT! Bush is a radical imperalist. n/t

[bonito]

39. Where is Lieberman on that chart, under Clinton's dot? neocon.

[cynatnite]

40. Very right of Hillary's...here is his...

This is at www.ontheissues.org

[bonito]

41. What about foreign policy issues?

[bonito]

42. where are the foreign policy issues?

[AtomicKitten]

44. Her liberal voting record doesn't square with her hawkish votes on war.

And it is on foreign policy issues that she is a no-can-do for me.

:scared: