Evangelical repubs are just the nicest people, really they are.

[Philosoraptor]

I mean, they go to church every Sunday, they believe on the Lord, they voted for reagan twice, daddybush, and twice for jr. bush, they gave us the neo cons to lord over our lives, but basically, they are just swell people who are not really a threat to our democracy, but are our neighbors, mothers and fathers, cousins and co workers, and all in all they are swell folks who will always, faithfully, vote for only the stupidest, panicky reasons, and they will always be relied upon to deliver the votes in large numbers, striving always to spread the good news of the Lord and the death of science and reason, and logic.

Should we fear or be angry with the evangelical republicans? After all, they are really the nicest bunch of people you'd ever want to meet, real salt of the earth types, who would give you the shirts off their backs and vote mike huckabee into the oval office, ushering in the end times and making the place nice and comfortable for the return of the Lord any day now in a hail of mushroom clouds.

Should we address the evangelical republican voters outright, confront them, reason with them, try to persuade them that the men they vote for are really wicked hucksters who don't really give a flying fuck about them? Or should we simply tolerate them and their very real influence on our politics and government?

Maybe we should deal with them in a new way, try to wake them up, bring them around, persuade them that they've been bamboozled and tossed aside over and over again? Or maybe we should just allow them to take over the whole fucking world? After all, they really are a swell bunch of folks, if you get to know them.

[anniebelle]

1. Some on this board think Huckabee's just SWELL!

I am absolutely appalled at how gullible we Americans have become. Especially in this day and age with information literally at our fingertips. Someone on this board stated only yesterday "I find Mike Huckabee a very 'likable' person", etc. etc. :puke:

[Philosoraptor]

2. He's the guy you'd most enjoy pushing the button with.

I like mike, he makes sense, he's a regular church going, God fearing guy, like my uncle only crazier.

[xchrom]

3. i think we should ''reach out to them'' -- as has been suggested by some.

:eyes:

[Demeter]

6. Are you Talking about a Chokehold, Then?

[xchrom]

10. ...

:spray:

[Arkansas Granny]

4. You have pretty much summed up many of the people that I work

with or come in contact with every day. If you try to confront them, they retreat behind their Bibles and throw scriptures at you (usually out of context) to support their positions. Most of them are more than willing to let their pastors tell them how they should vote because it's easier than trying to sort out the issues on their own. They are convinced that the "end times" are near, that biblical prophecy is being played out on the world stage and that any attempt to sway them from their convictions is the devil trying to tempt them from following the path of the Lord.

Trying to persuade them with logical arguments doesn't have any effect on them either. After all, they've been taught that temptation comes in appealing guises. Don't forget about the serpent in the garden of Eden or they way their Lord was tempted in the wilderness. We are talking about people who believe that the world is only 4,000 years old, deny evolution, and think that global warming is something dreamed up by liberals. These are people who are conditioned to acting and voting out of fear. These are the people who send money to the likes of Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland and a whole host of others that they have made very wealthy individuals. These are the people who voted for George Bush because he is a born again Christian and they still think he is one of the best Presidents in history. It's hard to use reason and logic with people like this.

IMO, our best move would be to really work on the people who usually vote Republican for other than religious reasons and convince them that voting for the Democratic nominee is in their best interests. That could really make a difference in the outcome of the election. I think that's the only way we will be able to negate the evangelical block of voters because I seriously doubt that we could ever change their minds.

[cornermouse]

7. Here's a thought.

that I am sure you will continue to ignore. Try to persuade the left wing of the party to stay with you instead of abandoning your principles in an effort to attract republicans.

[Arkansas Granny]

12. Nowhere in my reply did I suggest that we abandon our principles.

The OP was specifically addressing the problem of the Religious Right. What I suggested was that we try to convince those Republicans who are not so constrained by their "religious principles" that voting Democratic would be in their best interest. There are a great many people out there who are so accustomed to just tuning us out that we need to make an effort to get them to really consider our positions. There are enough people out there who are becoming disillusioned with the Republicans that they could make a big impact in the outcome in this election if they could be convinced that the Democrats have a better platform. We don't need to abandon our principles to do that, just make sure that they know what those principles are and that we have a plan to implement them for the benefit of all Americans.

[cornermouse]

14. I guess my point is that if you go too far to the right

to attract disaffected republicans you risk losing what you've already got. I switched back when Reagan was in office so this has been going on for some time now whether you realized it or not. I suspect you may have just about maxed out getting anyone who isn't either a hard-core look under the bed for communists every night repubilcan or a religious right republican. You aren't ever going to get either one of these groups.

[Arkansas Granny]

17. I guess my point is that we don't have to go to the right

to attract disaffected republicans. There are some who will never be convinced, but there some still out there who can and the last two "elections" have shown us that even small numbers can make a difference. I think it's worth a try to show them that Democrats share their concerns and have a better approach to solving the problems that we face.

[Redbear]

19. Great point , Arkansas Granny.

If you aren't in the top 5% of net worth or income, the GOP does not represent your interests.

[zanne]

25. It really is cult-like, isn't it?

I mean, when you aren't amenable to reason, enter the world of make-believe and insist that everybody else in the world is wrong, you're really drinking the Kool Aid.

[Beetwasher]

28. Not "Cult-Like"

Just plain "cult" will do. It's pretty much definitive.

[Echo In Light]

30. LOL...when enough people believe, it's "officially" no longer cultish

When it's a minority, then they can quickly be denounced and marginalized by the bigger, more respectable cult.

[zanne]

32. True.

There have been times, especially during Bush's first term, when I woke up in the morning wondering if I was really awake or still having some terrible nightmare. Then I'd think about Hitler's reign and it would all become excruciatingly clear to me...If you're the majority, you're right.

[mnhtnbb]

26. You cannot reason with people who don't respect reason.

[Demeter]

5. It Is Only in Modern Times that "Nice" Has Come to Mean "Weak-Minded"

or "dumb as a bag of hammers", to use the vernacular.

[Echo In Light]

8. Transference

"The rightists in this country are immensely aided in their propaganda work by their intense conviction that there is no wrong in telling lies to aid their cause, which is to wreck American republican democracy. The Christian Reconstructionists are quite explicit on this point (although not in public) ... the compulsive lying of the right, like the peculiar sadism pervading rightist rhetoric, also has a pathological dimension, which finally constitutes the common ground of the rightist factions now in power through Bush & Co. Outside the murky precincts of the psyche, or the soul, there is no tidy explanation for the acid, sanctimonious perverseness of Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity or Michael Savage. This or that extremist ideology alone is but a carrier or a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself ... that sense of super-rectitude comes not from any inner certainty, but rather is contingent on an endless furious denial of one's own "bad" aspects, which are imputed - much exaggerated and distorted - onto one's enemies ... In every case, as if a war or national election were an especially barbaric football game, the celebrant "feels good" because the other side is hurting. This would appear to be the signal temperamental difference between rightists and their adversaries, who, by and large, do not get such nasty joy out of their enemy's unhappiness."
~ Mark Crispin Miller, Cruel & Unusual, Bush/Cheney's New World Order
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Sept04/Engel0920.htm

[kevinbgoode]

16. Thank you. . .

These are not people we can pander to. . .and one of the biggest mistakes I've seen in our society is the overwhelming amount of direct pandering to this group of voters as if they must be afforded special rights and special attention at the cost of other citizens of this country.

The Right thrives on their own ability to confront, whether based on manufactured lies or on deliberate revision of history. We cannot grant it legitimacy by approving of such tactics, since they are designed to destroy the country. They already have unprecedented access to the media, to the public airwaves, to the presses, to air any sort of "opinion" they want, whether it is grounded on a single fact or some cooked up fantasy which forwards their agenda. They already work in lock-sync with any number of toe-tapping organizations which, when one string is pulled, act in unison in echoing identical "opinions" in nearly every publication in the country. No other group, no other ideology has that privilege - in fact it is often difficult to air ANY opposing position, even when someone is strong enough to withstand their inevitable criticism for being anti-American or anti-"Christian." They repeatedly refer to their crusade as a "war". . .

[Echo In Light]

18. Right on. And a harsh critique of strains of Christo-fascism is NOT a broad critique of faith

That's one of the right's talking points, and is used to silence opposition to the select strains of fascism and authoritarianism within religions that are in reality quite diverse.

[Cassandra]

9. I was watching the end of Pelosi's evangelical film...

and the skateboarding-for-Christ really disgusted me. As if that has anything to do with Christianity. This cheap version of religion, where you get to do anything you want and call it pious, is beyond sickening.

[Echo In Light]

11. "The last Christian died on the cross" - Nietzsche

[zanne]

23. I love that, Echo! nt

[BulletproofLandshark]

13. I prefer the "undisguised contempt" approach.

I can think of no greater hypocrites in American politics, and possibly society, than right-wing fundamentalists. Not just Christians, but fundamentalists of all stripes. These people would take us back to the Dark Ages if they could, and it's our responsibility to fight them at every turn.

[Caretha]

15. Not to worry

Reality is about to slap them upside the head. It's called their pocketbook. Sheep have a tendency to live in lala land until they notice they've been sheared. That reality is about to come knocking on their door - it will be here a lot sooner than armagedon.

[Justpat]

35. I hope you are right.

But I am not so sure that realizing they have been sheared will do the trick.
Many of them feel that they are sacrificing their individual lives and the
future of their children to usher in a god fearing type of government. If extreme
poverty is the price they pay for Christ's billionaires to control every aspect
of our lives - then so be it.

Since they lack reasoning skills they are unable to see that by the wealthy
inheriting the earth, they have violated Christ's concept of doing unto others
as you would have them do unto you. Instead, they have laid down their ability
to think and instead of advocating a government that does unto others, they
have simply said: OK. do me. again and again and again.

A theocracy has never been about instituting Christ's words in their hearts,
it has always been about gaining power over the minds and pocketbooks of the
so called faithful.

[robbedvoter]

20. If Huckabee loses to McCain (as orchestrated) they may vote Dem (at least some)

as it seems Huckabee supporters are the only ones who actually like their candidate. They may resent the manipulation and the smear.

[pleah]

21. You can't reason with the majority of these people. When they start

spewing their shit at me, I just tell them to get their heads out of their asses. And to read the New Testament again.

[Echo In Light]

22. It amazes me how so many of Christ's followers completely miss the crucial points

I guess they fancy themselves as the angry Christ, yet have it bass-akward: instead of speaking truth to power, they are slavishly obedient to it, and save their venomous rhetoric for those who sound much closer to the tenets of Christianity.

[mnhtnbb]

24. You forgot to mention how they just love Rush Slimebaugh because

he's so nice to do their thinking for them.

[Echo In Light]

27. A perfect example of rightist projection: a drug addict who rails against druggies

...not that I have anything against certain drugs.

[mnhtnbb]

29. Here's an example with a thread I posted. My sister-in-law

responded to me that she didn't care the forwarded e-mail was full of lies, half-truths, and distortions,
she just liked the point. How can you make a point based on lies?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/mnhtnbb/105

Zero logic. No reason. Don't bother me with the facts.

[Echo In Light]

31. Because logic/facts would illustrate their want of police state theocracy over democracy

[JohnnyLib2]

33. Recommended for some excellent comments. Because--

You've described various neighbors, relatives, coworkers in a truly illuminating way. Nice, hardworking people who go to church and pray for that poor Bush, whom they elected partly because handouts were place on their car windows in 2000 and 2004. Friendly folks who FW the ugliest of deceptive smears against Democrats, right along with their prayer lists.

[Ravy]

34. Never invite one to your party though. Always invite at least two.

Invite just one and they will drink all your beer.

[rucky]

36. I know some, and I have persuaded some.

Not with the standard, hostile message, either. It takes time, patience, sincerity - and asking LOTS of questions.

The Socratic method.

[Swamp Rat]

37. Have a Huckaburger

:9