Today my 14 y/o daughter came home crying hysterically

[sjdnb]

And, I'm trying to decide if I'm correct in my thinking or just being over-protective.

So, here's the deal - Honors English assignment - speeches/presentations on genocide.

Two very detailed films depicting the Holocaust were shown prior to the assignment. The assignment consisted of another 15+ presentations, with visuals/audio, of the events of the Holocaust (cremation, gassing/showers, body pits, etc.) over the next four days. One presentation on Darfur given in between.

Personally, I think this is too much to lay on 14 y/o's in the span of a few days. And, while I have discussed these events (and, other genocides - i.e., Native Americans, etc.) with my children - this really seemed to me, to be an ill advised way of presenting this information to middle schoolers.

[datadiva]

1. I agree with you

I don't know how an adult would handle 4 days of it.

[rockymountaindem]

2. Harsh presentation about a harsh reality

Is there any way to sugar-coat the deaths of millions in the past or hundreds of thousands in the present? Maybe if more people had to deal with the topic like this, they'd take reports of what's happening in places like Rwanda and Darfur more seriously.

[karlrschneider]

5. Or Iraq.

...

[Reciprocity]

15. Correct me if I'm wrong.

She is not asking them to sugar coat it but is it age appropriate?

[sjdnb]

79. Let me restate ... my 14 y/o daughter who has yet to vote ....

was exposed to four consecutive days of vivid, horrifying, video/audio of the Holocaust. Traumatizing enough and left her wondering how the world could ever let such a thing happen -- but, because it was presented, as it was, without any interjection regarding HOW people tried to fight the evil or HOW people can still fight the evil ... the result was pure trauma, hopelessness, and a feeling that all the volunteer work she and her siblings have done over the years is meaningless and nothing she might ever do in the future will be meaningful ... Because some evil SOB can come along and wreak far more havoc than she or anyone she knows will ever make a positive impact on.

She's 14 for crying out loud -- not only did it terrify/horrify her - it squelched any hope she had for the future in the way it was presented. Get it now?

[Sydnie]

91. Don't let it squelch any hope she has for the future

extend the lesson on your own to research just HOW people resisted and what happened after the war ended. It did bring about change. There were trials and the dirty laundry was aired so as to raise the conscience of a generation. It was momentarily tolerated because the people either didn't understand what was happening or were too slow to act if they did. But, once they did, they saved many lives and ended the massacre.

Find a way to instill the hope while not losing site of the lesson of "Never again ... not on her watch".

The mere fact that it touched her as deeply as it did should give YOU hope that you have the makings of a wonderful empathetic child who will one day realize that as one person she might be powerless, but as a group of like minded people, they can change the world for the better and work to end this kind of suffering in her lifetime all over the world.

It doesn't have to be a negative if you help her find her voice.

[sjdnb]

98. When it is 'mom' vs teacher ... mom rarely comes out

the authoritarian on any topic ... even if it is their area of expertise.

It's not the teacher's fault ... more that society has assumed all SAH moms never had a life/education/career of their own.

But, trust me --- all my kids (aged 30 to 12 - five in all) have been taught to march to the beat of their own drummer and never, ever, give in/up - as long as they believe in what they are fighting for - no matter how hopeless or unpopular their cause may have seemed.

This is the first time, in 30 years and five kids, that I've been compelled to question the decisions/directions of a teacher so adamantly.

[Orsino]

125. You'd know best...

...but the resilience of a teenager may pull her through it. It's early days yet.

Perhaps it's good for us to face inhumanity even to the point of losing hope, briefly, if our resolve to do good is ultimately strengthened. Heck, adolescent hormones may be driving much of her reaction.

Would you mind posting on the subject again, perhaps in a few weeks, to let us know how her perspective has changed?

[bean fidhleir]

162. Reality is always age appropriate during and after adolescence

Younger children generally don't have the ethical or intellectual capacity to evaluate an experience like that. But someone in her teens does, and the reaction of your daughter is completely appropriate. It's horrifying and she's horrified!

For the first time she's at an age where she's able to see the discrepancies between society's words and actions, and unless she's unusually fragile emotionally, she'll be able to deal with it---hopefully by deciding to do something about it.

Can you help her work through it in a mature way, so that she can find the strength to resolve to do something rather than have to retreat and pretend it's not happening (which is what too many people do) or pretend it's somehow okay because the ruling class says so? Becoming an autonomous adult is something that's hard to do without help from trusted parental figures.

[karlrschneider]

3. I would think if she's in an honors class that she'd be mature enough to handle that, but

if she's already hysterical over it, probably not a good thing. Did she say specifically what was disturbing her?

[sjdnb]

7. She could not understand how people could be so evil/cruel

I finally got her calmed down, but, honestly, just now as I think about what transpired I am crying just thinking about the pain she was feeling when she came home.

[emilyg]

13. Imagine the pain the people who perished

were feeling.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

44. Her pain in no way lessened their's.

That's way too much stuff to throw at a fourteen year old. Four DAYS?

I took my older kids to a holocaust museum in my city when there were about sixteen, but even then, not everything was forced in their faces, and it was only for a couple of hours.

[KitchenWitch]

54. A little sensitivity to the OP and her daughter is in order

and completely lacking in the post I am responding to.

Yes, what happened during the Holocaust, what is happening in Darfur and countless other places is nothing short of horrendous.

But, to completely discount her daughter's reaction to it by the above statement is extremely insensitive.

[treestar]

124. You must not be a parent

And I'm not one either, but now I know where they are coming from when they say that, even so! Of course the OP is caring more about her own daughter today than the long dead Holocaust victims! And that's as it should be! For cryin' out loud!

[emilyg]

148. I am a parent.

Never Forget.

[treestar]

153. Then why did you post such a mean thing?

Or, why don't you understand how it feels to see your own child upset by something and think they should just dismiss it because it is small compared to someone else's?

[karlrschneider]

18. Probably not a good idea to let her watch the evening news, then.

...

[HCE SuiGeneris]

68. Always a comforting word...

Christ, you are heartless.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

67. The realization that people CAN be so cruel was the hardest awakening

in life that I ever had to bear. Give her comfort and let her know many people are counterpart to that with the kindness they exude.

[Orsino]

126. That's how she'll come through it. You were there almost immediately...

...to help her begin to make sense of what is nearly senseless.

But a warning to parents before this material was used would have helped you prepare. I would hope that any child in an Honors class must have good parental support, and I guess it's understandable that the teacher could rely more on parents like you. But you shouldn't have been taken unawares.

[coalition_unwilling]

150. I wrote my Senior Thesis in college about the Nazi's implementation

of the Final Solution and, yet, I find myself at times sharing your daughter's perspective. To wit, all my studies in the history of the Holocaust and the Nazi regime have never fully explained to me "how people could be so evil/cruel." Laying it off to European\German anti-semitism, to the German genius for bureacracy or to Hitler's singular anti-semtiism merely begs the question at a core level.

I really feel for your daughter. Does sound as if it may have been a bit too intense for 14-year-olds. Do you know what the two films were?

[goodgd_yall]

158. I had this same experience at 8 years old

The first time I saw images of the Holocaust. It was horrifying for me and sobering. The revelation was "people can be this evil." However, I still could go on and experience joy and believe Christmas was a magical time, etc. I just learned that there were dangerous and mean people in the world at an earlier age than maybe some others.

[midnight]

42. Hi Darlschneider, just some experience that I have with my own

child who was in honors course work-they are usually the most sensetive and aware. They have a wonderfully unique grasp of information that they obsorb like a sponge. I don't know if that helps. I don't think her being upset is a take on her maturaty. I'm way older than 14 and some of the stuff I discovered in a book store about the doctors who assisted hitler made me physically ill.

[Breeze54]

45. Intelligence and emotional maturity are two different things.

;)

[Common Sense Party]

94. Getting into Honors/AP classes has nothing to do with maturity.

It has to do with grades.

I knew many immature valedictorians.

At an age when reading Anne Frank's diary was pretty horrifying for my generation, now these kids are bombarded with 4 days of mass graves and skeletal Jews. That's a lot for any teenager to handle.

[cynatnite]

4. I think they should have informed the parents if it was going to be graphic...

so the kids could be better prepared to see it.

Some kids are very sensitive and material of this nature should be handled carefully keeping in mind of who is going to be watching it. While I fully support our kids being educated on the horrors of the Holocaust, I don't agree with how this was done.

[LibDemAlways]

76. In my daughter's school, parents have to give written

permission before even a PG movie is shown. What the OP is describing would never be shown without the content being thoroughly described to the parents first. No kid would watch it without parental pre-approval. If it was indeed as disturbing as indicated above, the school was very wrong to present it with no warning. I'd indicate to the principal that in the future I'd like to know about any potentially disturbing material in advance.

[femmocrat]

6. Middle school teacher here, and I agree.

A phone call to the teacher might be in order. That is way too heavy for 8th grade, IMO. The fact that she was so upset indicates that she wasn't ready to handle all that. That's a shame. I'm not even sure what that has to do with 8th grade English.. sounds more like a Social Studies topic.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. Better not to teach it until they're adults, than to teach it in a whitewashed and silly fashion....

... the Holocaust was about as monstrous a thing as could be done to human beings, and any report one tries to do on it is going to have nothing but horror.

[emilyg]

14. Thank you.

[cynatnite]

20. We got educated on it when I was in high school...

saw films, photos and everything. I was a junior at the time. I already knew about it and it did move a few kids to tears. Most everyone in the class was moved by it.

Thing is...when we took driver's ed...they showed those graphic films of car accidents. Two students...one boy and one girl ran out of the room about ready to puke.

[2rth2pwr]

57. great, how about the millions who drop out of high school?

no exposure whatsoever.

Holocaust? what's that?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

118. True. We can thank the Repukes for turning this country into a sewer that way. nt

[DavidMS]

167. I have to disagree

Its better not to teach it all at once and especially better to include a proper history of genocide at the same time (American Indians, Hero, Nazism, etc) and to provide the necessary background. If I had children (I do not) who were exposed to that without properly explaining the historical context of class struggle in Germany, reading about the Revolution of 1919, the Battle of Cable Street in 1936, Spanish Republicans, the KKK (world's first fascist movement), and the heroic 43 Group I wouldn't be doing my job as a parent.

If its appropriate, I have a couple of web resources on this:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=2&ar=7">"Anti-Semitism, Fascism & the Holocaust: A critical review of Daniel Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners" by David North

If it helps, here is the only things that I have ever read that explains the far right in a way that makes sense to me: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/">The Authoritarians and http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/">Orcinus.

If she is a reader, a copy of Döblin's A People Petrayed might be helpful. Its a great piece of historical fiction set during the collapse of the Kisereich inb 1918 and give some background.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -- Sinclair Lewis

Right now domestic fascism looks most like the border patrol "minutemen" and some of Ron Paul's backers.

It sounds to me like you are asking the same sorts of questions. Good luck with helping your daughter deal with the question of evil.

[Sanctified]

9. Sounds like child abuse to me.

Children should not be subjected to that much horrific audio and video footage. As an adult I would have a serious problem with watching that much death and trying to wrestle with it all.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. Well, TV stations subject kids to some pretty horrific things....

.. and video games subject kids to some pretty monstrous things. If that was child abuse, I think any 14-yr old playing a game in which they're shooting another human being, is being abused by being allowed to play such a game.

[sjdnb]

72. I don't allow toy guns, video game guns, or any other

killing 'games' in my house and never have. Of course, I've often been labeled a 'meanie', 'old fashioned' and 'out of the loop', but I'm OK with that.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

117. I wish everyone were like you. :( Unfortunately, most people are brainwashed and seduced....

... by the media.

[dflprincess]

29. There were children who lived these horrors

not just watched videos of them.

[bean fidhleir]

163. Which means we are a nation of child abusers

Because we're not merely showing films of it to Iraqi and Afghani kids, we're doing it to them.

What about that?

[patrice]

10. 1,000,000 Iraqis are dead because of our insensitivity to the value of human life.

I don't think the truth has harmed your daughter.

[Sanctified]

12. Would you subject a child to the images of 1,000,000 dead Iraqis?

Our children did not kill them, adults did. Forcing children to see the dead is making them pay the price for other peoples crimes.

[patrice]

19. I'm not interested in arguing with you. 14 is old enough. nt

[Mojorabbit]

28. I think it depends on the child

I was very sensitive at that age. I snuck in to see a clockwork orange with a fake id. It affected me for years. I was too young to see it. Another fourteen year old might have had no problem with it.

I still cannot watch slasher movies to this day. It is just my makeup. I can watch horror movies that are not grounded in reality but those that are too real to life affect me deeply. I will have nightmares at age 51 if I see a piece on the news detailing animal abuse. I have a strongly empathic nature.

I think sixteen is more appropriate for the topic espicially if it was graphic in presentation.

[Withywindle]

51. That's how old Anne Frank was when she died. n/t

[truebrit71]

131. I disagree. In fact if enough of them saw it as kids maybe when they grow up to be adults they'll be

less likely to repeat the errors of their predecessors...

Eisenhower made local residents bury the dead at liberated death camps in WWII to show them the brutal reality of their willful ignorance...

This can only make the kids stronger...

[Xithras]

16. I have a 14 year old daughter, also honors.

I guess it just depends on the kid. Then again, maybe mine just watches too much History Channel with me.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. The material may be a little disturbing, but it's SUPPOSED to be disturbing. At 14 years, I think she's old enough to understand that the world isn't all full of love and happiness. Politically active young adults usually start out as politically active teens, and teens don't become active unless they see things that move them.

Let me ask you this question. After watching those presentations, do you think your daughter is MORE likely to care about genocides happening today, LESS likely to care about genocides, or UNCHANGED? I'd lay money on the first option, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[sjdnb]

60. My daughter was raised to care ... doing vol work since she

could toddle across a floor - as were all my five children. And, yes, they have more than a few tales to tell.

This one has fed/read to/shown family photos to/wheeled and walked people in various stages of cancer, heart disease and Alzheimer's - she has collected money and supplies for various causes and put together packages for the troops as well as people in our local shelters.

Until this event, she thought she could make a difference. Now, she feels like she's powerless - "How could this happen?"

In my opinion, this was just a very insensitive, lazy, and less than respectful way to present the topic of genocide to 14 y/o's.

[Warpy]

17. She's a sensitive kid, a compassionate and empathetic kid

so you did something right. Take it as that. Kids need to know what this world can turn into from time to time and 14 is not too young for them to start learning it.

Tell her the truth, that countries go crazy from time to time and a lot of good people are butchered for no reason at all. Tell her the dream of America was a dream of a country set up in such a way that a madman couldn't come to power and make the country crazy like Hitler did. Tell them we seem to have failed, but we have a chance to undo it now and that we've been able to undo it in the past.

Above all, let her know it's not her fault and will never be if she's true to herself and in the way she treats other people. Tell her the best way to make the world a better place is to be who she is, not who other people tell her to be.

She sounds like a great kid who will eventually process this stuff. Who knows, in about 8 years she might join me in trying to save this old world, one poor person at a time.

[uppityperson]

22. Good reply, thank you for posting what I was going to write.

Best wishes to your daughter and to you.

[LeftyMom]

21. When he was 14, my grandfather in US by himself

because his parents had figured Austria-Hungary wasn't a very good place to be a young man of fighting age, taken him to Italy and sent him alone to a country he'd never seen, with a little pocket money, no English and no special skills. He not only survived, he thrived.

You underestimate young people- in four years they'll be grown, able to vote, and in many cases on their own. Some might be parents. In other cultures and at other times in our own, many of them already would be shouldering adult responsibilities.

A history lesson is not going to traumatize your precious little snowflake.

[Zorro]

23. 14 years old should be mature enough

to be exposed to serious historical truth. It is part of her education, and hopefully will make her a wiser person as she continues to learn.

[sjdnb]

65. Maybe I've just raised them to be too sensitive

Perhaps they just need to get a tougher skin and be able to accept the fact that the world, in many ways, is and has been F'd up over millennium.

But, for some reason ;) they just won't accept that explanation.

However, while I'll defend public education to the death - it is the BEST way to provide quality education to the children of this nation, bar none, I think, in this particular instance, the teacher could have presented the information in a less traumatizing way and still taught the lesson.

[BlackVelvet04]

24. I'm sure you will get plenty

of "that's reality" kind of answers, but I agree with you. I saw a film of the holocaust and the bombing of Hiroshima as a young teenager and I had nightmares for years.

When a child approaches voting age is a more appropriate time I think for them to learn some of the harsh realities.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. I agree. That's a bit much. Hell, when I was in High School, I cried for days after seeing the

Holocaust pictures in my history book. I can only guess what I would have been like had I seen what your daughter has seen. It's traumatic, to say the least.:(

I feel so bad for her. It's unbearable to know humans are capable of such cruelty. That's a lot to wrap a young brain around.

[karlrschneider]

31. But that's probably one of the main reasons you're a good progressive Democrat!

Couldn't be ALL bad...
:D

[Nite Owl]

26. It's difficult to even imagine

what happened but if she didn't cry about it wouldn't that mean something was really wrong? Too many are out there who demean and deny these things, too many have no empathy for others at all. The fact that your daughter was so upset just means she is capable of being a person that can truly understand others. She can feel to the depth of her being.

[rucky]

27. It's not a bad thing she cried.

I can sorta see the teacher's thinking on this, and probably had the boys more in mind - the ones hooked on the PlayStation and are pretty desensitized to violent stuff. Hope this wakes some of them up.

I remember reading "Night" at the same age and it really impacted me. But to get any point across with the MTV kids, you need the visuals.

[hobbit709]

30. My mother was seven when Hitler marched into Austria

Her 14th birthday was a week before the war ended. She experienced plenty that no child should. It made her more determined to be a pacifist. She's now 76 and going strong and she says worse things about Bush than I do.

[scarletwoman]

32. When does the teaching of historical fact devolve into snuff porn? I don't know.

What is the point of bombarding kids with emotional stimuli? Unless these events are being put into a geo-political context, then I don't see that this "teaching" regimen serves any purpose beyond sensationalism.

Instead of spending days replaying horrors, it seems to me that the time would be better spent analyzing why such horrors occur. The trauma your daughter is experiencing would be mitigated by the intellectual exercise of examining the causal factors.

But that would seem not to be the intent of this course. It seems to be designed to arouse emotions only.

Human beings have been subjecting other human beings to horrors all through history. This is the truth. But cataloguing all the ways and means of inflicting these horrors does nothing to end them until the root causes of the human proclivity for inflicting horror on other human beings is given serious examination.

From examination and understanding comes empowerment.

sw

[rockymountaindem]

34. I think that unless you see things like films and photos

any discussion about the reasons for such tragedies occurring will just seem like an abstraction.

[scarletwoman]

36. That's absurd. I'm 58 years old. I read books. I never needed visuals to know that the Holocaust

was a horror, it was obviously a horror just from the bare facts that human beings were being so brutalized by their fellow human beings. It was never an "abstraction".

Of course visual images have a powerful emotional effect. But if there is no intellectual and analytic context, there is no harnessing of that emotional effect to any useful purpose.

sw

[bean fidhleir]

164. Intellectuallizing is a way to keep one's distance and avoid engagement

It's a bad idea.

[proud patriot]

33. I wasn't allowed to see "Roots" as a child

My grandparents who raised me, sheltered me from
many things .

When I saw "Amistad" in the theater as a adult
I nearly sobbed my way out of the theater .. It
really doesn't matter at what age you see horrific
truth . It hurts just the same .. At 14 the mind
can handle such truths ugly as they may be .

I do agree a movie a week would have been more
appropriate and perhaps more educating .

[Manifestor_of_Light]

73. "Amistad" was cleaned up, actually.

Remember all the slaves in the hold of the ship? Remember when one of them was groaning in labor, and the baby was born, and was picked up for the people to see, and it was CLEAN??? If they'd been realistic, there would have been blood all over it. I guess childbirth is too messy to show even in that context.

[phillysuse]

35. Diary of Anne Frank is usually taught in

8th grade.

How can you teach this unless you teach about the Holocaust?

[midlife_mo_Jo]

47. Four days of very graphic material in 8th grade English class?

I think it's too much.

And the book is about Anne Frank's life before she entered the concentration camp and was killed. Generalized information about the state of Germany and the treatment of Jews with some pictures would have been adequate to teach the book. The book was not about life in a concentration camp.

[defendandprotect]

78. "The Diary of Anne Frank" was heavily censored . . . wasn't it?

[rug]

37. What do parents of 14 year olds do in Baghdad?

I don't think this was too much to lay on 14 year olds, especially since they'll be recruited in 2 years.

[Breeze54]

48. What's happening in Iraq is wrong and none of those children

should've been exposed to the horrific violence going on there either!!!

Two wrongs don't make a right!!

[sjdnb]

66. Not mine -- opted out. They plan on joining the Peace Corp.

Sorry Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines.

[Critters2]

161. They may see some pretty difficult things in the Peace Corps, too.

Most of the world lives harder lives than we do.

[AlCzervik]

38. it's rough but it's real but she knows, her crying imo is a natural reaction to

mans inhumanity to man. My daughter is 13 and reads the paper and watches the news with me, she also has a cousin in Iraq but she knows, she cries but she knows and she doesn't forget.

[OzarkDem]

39. My boys used to get teary during these things

We always had to have a talk about it when they came home, assuring them its ok to feel bad about it, but move on and do something some day to make things better, like their parents do. Martin Luther King Day was always a bad time, too. My youngest son would get teary eyed and refuse to watch or listen when they talked about slavery in the US. He reacted again last year when we visited the Holocaust Museum while we were in DC for our senator's swearing in ceremony. I had to chase him all over the Mall for an hour or so.

I first saw photos of bodies in the Nazi death camps when I was 15, but we were living through the Vietnam War then, when we saw a lot of human suffering on the nightly news and the daily paper. Our kids haven't been exposed to that, so its a bigger shock to them.

It doesn't help to shield them from it, better that they learn. Both of my kids are now pursuing careers in human rights, though I'm trying to talk the oldest out of going to Brazil after college graduation to help organize workers (no jobs in third world countries until the US/CIA/State Dept. cleans up its act). They learned how to translate those lessons into action.

[Hoof Hearted]

40. She's growing up and I'm not sure if it's advisable to protect her from these realities at her age.

I understand deeply the desire to never have them feel and know the pain that we do, especially when you have a sensitive and empathetic child. It's hard to watch them grow up, but you have to let it happen, and unfortunately pain is a big part of that.

My best advice? Help her find coping strategies like volunteering for a charity organization or organizing a fund drive for the victims of Darfur.

[Breeze54]

50. Reading a book about it would have been better than a graphic film.

Save the theatrics after they have an understanding. It sounds like this
was foisted on the kids with out pre-reading about it. Imagination and
reading can teach more than a graphic film.

[Hoof Hearted]

87. In the case of the inexperienced, I respectfully disagree.

The best of books take us to places we've not been, involve us in the lives of people we could never meet, and hopefully bring us to an understanding of the circumstances of other peoples lives, giving us new perspectives and a different way of looking at issues. But the fact is, the best of books can only build on the experiences and exposures of the reader.

The best of books could never convey alone the horror of genocide without graphic imagery.

[Breeze54]

95. Is the focus only on hitting them over the head human tragedy and violence? Books lay the pathway...

And them walking that path, after they read about it; the video's would
have been a secondary and kinder way to foist destructive reality on these kids.

Slamming kids of that age (emotional preteen) with that kind of violence is cruel and unneeded.

[Hoof Hearted]

100. A fourteen year old child is but three years and some change from being expected to die

for their country if it calls.

If the child had no foreknowledge of genocide before the age of fourteen that is a deficiency of education to be placed upon both the parents and the schools.

At fourteen they should have a reasonable grasp of the subject. So many underestimate youth. Youth have willingly fought and won wars. Youth have ruled empires. Youth have changed the world - and they have done this best, like all people, when they are not kept naive of reality.

[Breeze54]

105. You're eyes are turning brown

they're so full of Ka-Ka!! Give me a huge break!! :eyes:

You have absolutely no insight or knowledge about this.

I certainly hope you are not a teacher, in any capacity!

Abusing a child for the 'sake' of sharing abuse IS WRONG!!

:grr:

[Hoof Hearted]

106. the maturity and strength of your response speaks for itself n/t

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hiphopnation]

129. seems that a combination of the two might have been the best approach

that is, both reading about it and viewing a few films on it.

but i agree with the OP that watching that many films over a few days is a bit much. it would have been hard for me!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

134. 14 is not emotionally pre-teenage.

It's fully teenage and is only going to get more so.

Teach us young and teach us again and again--the world is not and has never been pretty. When we understand that, we can start to do something about it.

[Muttocracy]

52. good suggestion

That's what I was thinking - one thing that is upsetting to me is if I see something like that and I feel there's nothing I can do about it. It's a kind of powerless horror.

For the current event ones - yeah, find a way to channel that energy?

And I need to get off the computer and do some real world difference-making things!

[TNDemo]

41. I can remember being 14 and spending the night with a friend.

Her dad had been in World War II and had pictures of the atrocities, including spies, male and female, that had been hung upside down and shot. I did okay for a few hours and then began to freak out and made my mother come out in a snowstorm and take me home. That was many years ago but it is still imprinted vividly in my mind. I agree that our children need to be educated about atrocities but it doesn't have to be so graphic at that age. Yes, there are horrible things happening all over the world, but why lay that burden on a child who can do nothing about it? They need to be sensitive to the suffering of others but just as you don't tell a four-year-old asking where babies come from all the graphic details, just the bare facts until they are old enough to deal with the whole picture, you don't have to traumatize a teenager with things are very hard for adults to face.

[Didereaux]

43. perhaps you should home school...then when they become shia muslim no facts will stand in their way!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

75. Perhaps you could empathize instead of spewing meaningless drivel...?

[Breeze54]

46. I'd call the teacher. Maybe the teacher isn't 'tuned in'

to the emotionl maturity of children that age and maybe her POV is
skewed due to her childhood experiences and she thinks this is normal?
That all kids this age have already been exposed to this kind of craziness?

:shrug:

[Guaranteed]

49. 14 is when the critical thinking begins.

Your daughter is still very young, but it is important that she begins to be introduced to the reality of reality in this world.

Dragging it out over four days may be a bit much, with constant pictures, but whatever they do shouldn't be edited.

[robbedvoter]

53. Saw it in school at about the same age. Didn't cry, but never forgot.

[denem]

55. At 10 years old I read everything I could about the Holocaust

There was a passing reference to 'gassing' on TV, and I asked my Dad. He said it was 'Not Suitable' for a 10 year old. I'd already been told that sex was 'Not Suitable' a year before so I went down to the local library and started reading. Then the librarians let make take books home. I must have taken out at least ten.

I've never quite recovered. Years of nightmares without the comfort of waking up and knowing it never happened. And I kept it to myself. By the time we discussed it a school, nothing I could be told or shown could compete with the horrors of the night.

Whether it's Darfur, Iraq, Vietnam or Bosnia, you don't have to kill a child to end their childhood.

[Muttocracy]

56. what about other kids and her while at school?

Was it a case of her keeping feelings in at school and falling apart once she got home? Were other kids upset/crying at school. That can be hard too - if kids are trying to look tough but want to cry.

As I agreed with a poster above - maybe find something positive to do with her feelings about it so she doesn't feel powerless/overwhelmed?

I think at 14 it might give me fits of throwing up. Hell, things like that do that to me now. It's good to have a visceral reaction to things that are wrong.

[Withywindle]

58. Well, I'm not a parent, but here's my perspective.

The first ever major world historical event I have a vivid memory of was the Jonestown massacre. I was 9. I didn't study it in school - I stole my parents' TIME magazine with all the bodies on the cover and hid it under my bed and meditated over it every night, trying to understand. (My mom's best friend had committed suicide 2 years before and I knew she was messed up about it still and I was trying to wrap my brain around death and people killing themselves). And yeah, I cried. I cried buckets. But I never told anyone about my obsession.

I didn't really understand those feelings until about 3 years later when I read 'The Diary of Anne Frank' (again, not in school - I was a bookworm who did it for fun) and then felt that feeling again - of trying to relate to someone who had died in a horrible event of history. That book made it much easier for me, because it was by a girl around my age, who I felt I would have been friends with if we'd met. Then I started reading books on the Holocaust, and yes, looking at death camp pictures...and again, cried buckets. I kept thinking of Anne, who'd become like an invisible friend to me, the way characters in books one truly loves do.

Yes, these were disturbing experiences. Maybe too much for my tender years, from an adult's perspective. Do I regret them, wish I'd stayed "innocent" longer? No. I don't idealize innocence, I think it's artificial, for the most part. I think those experiences were crucial to whatever sense of empathy and social conscience I have now. THAT starts in childhood too, if it's ever going to exist.

[sjdnb]

63. Trust me, I'm not naive when it comes to what children CAN take in childhood ...

My own was childhood was no 'cakewalk' -- but, to expose children, raised in a normal environment trying to show them ways to do good and make a difference in the world, this type of imagery and sound, intensely, over such a short period without any additional information offered, with respect to hope and how there are good people in the world who fight this type of evil AND can make a difference, is, in my opinion, irresponsible, lazy, and disheartening.

[Breeze54]

107. Really? Then why the OP question? Clearly you don't know what decision to make.

But I suspect you will make the right one and that is to have

a talk with the teacher and then the principle! ASAP!

You are the adult! It's YOUR job to protect your child!!

:hug:

Now, get busy!!

[Withywindle]

138. Oh, that's an excellent poitn.

without any additional information offered, with respect to hope and how there are good people in the world who fight this type of evil AND can make a difference

I think that part is extremely important and it's very wrong to leave it out.

[TankLV]

59. I have trouble with it - and I'm 54! - nope - now 55! as of New Year's Eve...

At least she is upset about it - I'd be concerned if she just shrugged it off...

You're raising a wonderful sensitive child there - soon to be a wonderful adult...

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Kids from survivors got this and then some younger than that

only way to avoid a holocaust (regardless of religion) is to show this to kids, and my question is when it is too early?

I had a kid crying IN A COLLEGE CLASS for crying out loud because she, poor dear, should never be exposed to that crap! I mean, how dare I show them NIGHT AND FOG, oh dear!

As a child of a holocaust survivor... she is old enough... nine... you'd have a point

Now seat down and explain to your kid what we are doing in Guantamo and why some of us are extremely angry about it and have been tilting at windmills since it started...

Rant off!

[TahitiNut]

62. Then it's time for her to read Viktor Frankl "Man's Search For Meaning"

I grew up in the aftermath of WW2. I was 14 in 1957 ... and by then I'd seen an enormous amount of information regarding the Holocaust. We ALL learned about it at the same time in this country ... no matter how old or how young. I learned to read at the same time I learned of the Holocaust!!

If we can't cry about it ... we haven't learned a damned thing.

[jmm]

64. Of course I don't know your daughter but

her reaction strikes me as being caused by her personality and not her age. I took a class on the Holocaust when I was in college. One day while showing us pictures of the Lotz ghetto a girl raises her hand and says the Holocaust was "overrated" because nobody dressed like poor people in the pictures. I forget what exactly I said but I yelled some expletive at her then buried my head under my arms on my desk. The professor walked over to me, put his hand on my should while saying "I know," then calmly explains to her that clothing styles were different then so people didn't wear velor, sweat pants, etc. then. Some people no matter how old they are never get it and others from a young age care about the suffering of others. Yes she's only 14 but when she's 41 do you really think she's going to feel any differently? It must be difficult watching your daughter cry but at least she cares enough to react to what she's seeing. I think middle school is the perfect time to expose children to this. They need to be exposed to the world before they're read to go to college.

[sjdnb]

81. At 41 she'll probably react the same way ...

but, she'll be 41, not 14, and more able to deal with it -- and maybe with her belief that she has the power to make a difference still intact.

Beside the onslaught of traumatic video/audio, that rendered her almost lifeless, the 'lesson', the way it was taught has also usurped her belief that anything she (or anyone) has done/can do will make a difference -- cuz, some dictator/politician will come along and render her and anyone else's work irrelevant.

Is that what we want the younger generation to learn from history?

[bean fidhleir]

165. She'd be 41 and 27 more years of atrocities would have happened

Now those 27 years are ahead of her, and that's where you come into it. What she needs from you is your help in putting it all into context, and your support in engaging with the problem.

It might put it in perspective for you to imagine your family being Iraqi, and the atrocities occurring every day next door to neighbors in your street and city rather than long ago in another country to people whose names she doesn't even know. How would you protect her then?

[cooolandrew]

69. War is hell is more than true but to those not exposed to it it's afairytale. Education is im0portan

[cooolandrew]

70. War is hell is more than true but to those not exposed to it it's afairytale. Education is important

As long as teachers forewarn parents and sutdents, I see nothing wrong with letting them see hat war is. The western world has to have the myth broken that war is warm and fuzzy and flowers andcandy. War can be very romanticised until it wpells tragedy for soldiers family.

[emmadoggy]

71. I agree that this seems like a lot for 14-year-olds to digest in just a few days.

I would agree with many of the other posters that it is an appropriate age to begin learning about it and to be exposed to it - but a total bombardment over a few days time of very graphic material seems to be over-the-top intense.

I'm surprised by the coldness of some of the replies here.

I vividly remember many of the images of the Holocaust that I saw during my world history class and I was in 10th grade. Not only that but the information was presented over a period of time with other material interspersed and not a constant barrage of just the most horrific, graphic stuff.

[alittlelark]

74. My 13 year old daughter has handled a very similar

curriculum over a few weeks. Pictures, the whole 9 yards. It involved the Japanese treatment of the Chinese in WW2 (VERY VERY ugly stuff).

The curriculum your daughter is engaged in sounds really fascinating.... embedding Darfur atrocities in 'History' seems to be a great way to show that 'History is not dead'.

[defendandprotect]

77. I agree ---

Your daughter is in an "Honors English" class . . . congratulations!

I think the schools should have a responsibility to inform kids of this stuff ---
raising consciousness --- but it is too much at one time.

And, certainly, who among us can understand these horribly violent episodes --- !!!

So much to be explained ---

and I think anyone this young needs time to process the info and question it all ---

I like the idea of the survivors visiting the schools ---


Just want to add a PS to this because we all give advice based on our personal experiences, I think.
I read "The Third Reich" when I was about 15 or 16. I had, of course, read some of the stuff in the newspapers around that time. I had already had the shock of sitting in a classroom and understanding very clearly that we destroyed the native America and took their land. So I was already suspicious of what was really going on. Of course, I was also aware of slavery. And as a
6 year old had witnessed the foul treatment of African-Americans in the South. Chain gang;
black grandmothers forced to the back of the bus.

I was stopped at the WHY? however --- and still am today.
Many said, don't question Hitler's insanity because in order to understand him you'd also
have to be insane. But, there were answers and I gradually found them.
Not very pleasant answers ---
We are still in the same gene pool ---
and the violence has once again been unleashed ---

I wanted to know why we weren't capturing Nazis?
Could I have possibly known then the complications of an answer that suggests that the
state of Israel come into being partly within an agreement and demand by Nelson Rockefeller
that if he permitted it, then there could be no further hunting of Nazis?

I also found most of my answers in books ---

[sjdnb]

80. You write like my daughter thinks ... now

But, as her mother, I want her to believe there are still good works she can do and things she and her friends can affect - without concerning herself about what the politicians do.

Because I know it is possible, unless you lose the will to try to make a difference.

[defendandprotect]

82. You're citing one of the most important ways of thinking ---

I love Howard Zinn --- and one of his comments is that ...
"Sentimentality without action is meaningless" ---

I wish I could tell you that I think I've made the efforts I thought I would make ---
I wish I could tell you that I'm not ashamed of having done so little ---

Zinn also points out how much better we feel about ourselves when we become active
in the struggle ---
not to expect a quick end to it; a quick win - won't happen.

You're point about the politicians is also insightful ---
as Zinn, again, points out that we have been more effective creating change from outside
of government vs within -- and that politicians, often intending to create something better,
often lose themselves in politics.

Zinn and Chomsky also stress that we mustn't become disheartened --
that those in power want us to believe we have no chance --

I've just been struggling with Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" ---
of course I know all of this stuff --- but having it come at you in such force all at once
again was very uncomfortable --- so even adults need sometimes to take in info a bit slower!

I did discover that Milton Friedman was an adviser to Pinochet!!!

But I've had to go just to the "Conclusions" at the moment --- and there I did find much
to be uplifted about -- especially re Latin America and the courage of those who have been
so oppressed--!!!

Many of the Latin American countries have come together --- shunning savage capitalism --
our banks and financial organizations and the arm-twisting.

And, they are creating many leaders in small groups who can succeed and lead if other leaders
are taken from them ---

It was actually one of these local groups which rounded up people and rescued Chavez/Venezuela
from the kidnappers and coup attempt!

That's the power of the powerless!!

Best wishes ---

[piesRsquare]

108. Then YOU sit down and teach her that!

The teacher's job is to teach your daughter what happened during the Holocaust, not what YOU "want her to believe"!

It's YOUR job as a parent to teach your daughter values.

Go become a Holocaust educator yourself if you have such strong feelings about how it should be taught.

Jewish children start seeing those films at age nine or ten in Hebrew school.

German elementary and middle school students see the unedited, raw footage in public school.

14-year-old girls are non-stop emotion and drama, and anything that has an impact can trigger hysteria in them. She'll sleep it off and be fine.

Jeez, grow up!

[marlakay]

83. Your not over protective thats nuts

They shouldn't show that much to kids...they see too much violence as it is in the movies.

Thats a very touchy age to begin with. My kids are in their 20's but neither of them would want to watch that much now. I know I wouldn't. Maybe one and that would bring me down...

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

84. There were a lot of 14 year olds at Auschwitz who couldn't look away

IMO the parents of this generation hide WAY too much stark reality from their middle schoolers. It's one of the reasons this nation has become so weak in so many things.

[sjdnb]

92. I believe what you say is true, to some extent ...

But, I also believe many in my family (carting folks over the Russian rivers, hiding some in the Warsaw ghettos/helping them to escape, fighting/dying in WWII) fought, some with their dying breath, trying to prevent the same from happening to their own families/children and subsequent generations.

And, yet this has little to do with one Honors English teacher's decision to bombard 14 y/o's with four days of non-stop Holocaust video/audio.

Yeah, sometimes I think our kids are too sheltered -- but, in other ways they are much more oppressed/pressured (NCLB, non-stop testing, comp lit, etc.) than we ever were. It's all about science, math, and english the tested way and the arts and music be damned (even if they are just as important).

Fact is the testing is flawed as are the frequently reinvented 'initiatives' the districts come up with to try to 'beat the Feds/State (via Fed mandates)) - aka retain their funding.

Go back to devising the curriculum on what is important -- not what will get you more Federal/State dollars -- and, then, our kids will succeed.

IMHO, we all need to come together to create a more nurturing and holistic system of education for all of our kids. Vouchers/home schooling can never achieve the potential of public education -- and, until we all get behind a fully funded/appreciated/supported public education system, we and our kids will suffer.

[Lorien]

140. I have a family friend who was seven when he was brought to that

place. He was nine when he was liberated-but his entire family was murdered in the years he was there. He has suffered extreme bouts of depression ever since (no surprise).

When I was five my father was watching a very graphic documentary on the holocaust on TV, unaware that I was still awake and watching it too. I became hysterical after seeing the gas chambers and people being thrown into death pits that were stacked with hundreds of bodies. My dad never forgave himself for allowing me to see that at such a young age, but I think that it contributed to my political activism today. I certainly never forgot it.

[clyrc]

85. I had to leave the room when I was in college because I couldn't watch

any more of a film about the Holocaust. I knew all about it, but seeing the pictures made me sick. It does depend upon the child, but it seems to me four days of similar films is too much for some kids. I know I wouldn't have taken it well.

Last fall, my family went to Armenia, and we went to the Armenian genocide museum. My two daughters are nine and twelve, and the pictures were horrific. For the rest of the day they clung to my husband and me, and for the rest of the trip we moved the beds together so we could all sleep next to each other. We talked about how things like this happen, and I think they went away from the experience a little wiser. If I had seen those pictures when I was their ages, I would have had nightmare for weeks.

[MonkeyFunk]

86. I haven't read the other responses, so I don't know

the conventional wisdom.

But my view is that it's OK. I read "Hiroshima" when I was 11, and studied the holocaust on my own when I was 13 or 14. Yes, I cried... a lot.

History is painful sometimes - that's OK. And it's OK to cry about it. But we should still learn it as best we can.

[Desertrose]

88. At that age, Idon't think they need graphic images or details.

I would have been absolutely furious.

I will never forget those images I saw when I was in college...they haunt me to this day. Unfortunately since then, I have had so many other horrors to add to them- yet it has never diminished the shock of the camps, the ovens, the living and dead skeletons.

I'm so sorry for your daughter......
:hug:
DR

[readmoreoften]

90. They recruit kids before they hit college. /nt

[readmoreoften]

89. 14 is too young? Are you crazy? They start recruiting at 17.

I saw images of the Holocaust daily on TV before I was in nursery school--and I'm only in my thirties. Kids are so detached from reality these days. They should know why we need to carefully vet our ideas before they becomes someone else's war. All the people responsible for these deaths were once 14 year old kids.

[cynatnite]

96. Could you please explain your comments a little more?

I'm not sure I fully understand. Who are 'they' when you're talking about 'they start recruiting'? In what ways are kids detatched from reality?

You don't think you were a little young to see such gruesome imagery when you were in nursery school?

Are you trying to work the Iraq War into the daughter's difficulty in dealing with the Holocaust? Why?

How does those responsible for the Holocaust have anything to do with them being the same age as the daughter is now? Are you implying something?

[Swamp Rat]

93. give her a hug from me

:hug:

I saw horrific images at a much younger age, and never got over it.

I've been to Dachau, been inside gas chambers, ovens, seen thousdands of children's shoes, eyeglasses, baby dolls, inside the attic where Anne Frank hid, etc. and never got over it.

I grew up knowing I lost family I never got to know because they were exterminated, and never got over it.

I never got over these things and I am glad I never will.

[hobbit709]

111. My parents took me to Dachau

when I was seven. I was too young to understand everything but I still remember what I felt 50 years later. What I felt was sense of indescribable evil. I had relatives that went to the camps-their crime was being a Socialist. My grandfather was a member of the Austrian Resistance-O5. I remember the occupation troops in the streets of my home town-American, British, French and Soviet.

[Breeze54]

97. You should follow your instincts. A mothers instincts are always right!

;)

[Occulus]

137. Untrue. n/t

[ConsAreLiars]

99. Youngsters, the next generation, need to know the truth about the world they live in.

That your child came home crying is the best thing that could have happened. She has compassion. What more valuable lesson could she have discovered in school? Team spirit? Rah! Rah! Rah! USA! USA! CSA! KKK! Or who has the most pricy labels on their clothing? You should be proud of her and thankful that she learned more than blind hate or simple-minded ignorance.

Tell her how proud you are of her for her understanding and compassion, and how thankful you are for her teacher for bringing her best qualities to the surface, and open (don't force) the discussion to ways she might take action to right the wrongs in this world.

[Laurier]

101. You've "discussed these events and other genocides" with your children

you said.

Any decent person, regardless of their age, would and should be upset by the reality of genocidal events, so your daughter's reaction (being upset) is not at all unusual or unexpected. But given that you have previously discussed genocide with her, it seems a bit odd that you are upset that she is being taught at school the same things that you have already taught her at home. Maybe I'm missing something?

[Common Sense Party]

102. I think it's rather the length and intensity of the class discussion

that is the concern for the OP.

Four days of graphic footage and descriptions of unspeakable inhumanity...

I'm sure that was much more intense than what the OP did in his/her own home.

[sjdnb]

152. It was the bombardment of graphic/audio images

repeatedly over the course of four days that bothered me, precipitated by two days of full length, extremely graphic videos. I thought I wrote that in my post, but I'll recheck it.

It wasn't as much the content as context in which it was presented.

[Smith_3]

103. I grew up in germany. We were fed that stuff from day one.

Its reality, she better learn to deal with it.

[NuttyFluffers]

104. actually, at 14, i think it's one of the better times to do it.

though i do think the 'four day marathon of horrors' was scholastically and emotionally a bit much. something so powerful could easily be spaced out a bit more w/ a reading of Anne Frank, some documentary, read Night, watch a docudrama, have essay workshops, do an art retrospective, go back to graphic A/V, return to survivor stories, etc. making kids do reports on their own and present it, bracketed with intense imagery is just asking for overload.

but 14 is just when kids transition to high school while leaving some of their most beloved childhood friends. it's sort of an 'end of childhood' stage as much as we have in our culture. and there's so many kids who drop out of high school, i want as many people on earth aware about such an important thing while there's still time to draw forth and nurture critical thinking and empathy. it's a great 'safe space' where hormones and new social dynamics don't interfere as heavily, giving a place to gestate such trauma to create a better person.

i think what we often forget is that humans are amazingly resilient as they are fragile. it's something that's being lost in this new cultural moment as we continually try to divorce the everyday life and death and drama of the world from our 'precious ones.' from previous ages of farms and cities where most children learned about the death of living things and the casual exploitation dynamics of man, we are trying to create a society sublimated into some sort of College Campus/Mall of America Nirvana where there's no pain. that's not good and only going to bite us back in the ass. we need people educated at an early age not to be afraid of dark ugly things -- such as their own vicious human nature -- and be willing to confront it with the tools of empathy, critical thinking, and reserve of conscience.

and for something as big as the Holocaust i think people need to use a big blow to make sure it sinks in throughout the entire audience. it cannot be something that might mildly traumatize one small group while being completely a blow off (or, god forbid, amusing) to the larger audience. it needs to be a sledgehammer getting through everyone -- no escape. but, and this is where i disagree with the teaching methods, it shouldn't be a repeated blow of the sledgehammer with self-study being the main recourse of gathering and processing. there should be outlets of question and answer sessions, thought essays, artistic releases, etc. to process out, give release and context to the experience.

but don't worry about your child's trauma too much. humans, like i just said, are amazingly resilient. she just needs to go through all the stages of grief and is probably wandering somewhere around with a mix of it all. once she reaches close to the stage of acceptance would be a wonderful time to offer positive options to give a sense of empowerment when faced, god fobid, with similar challenges (a challenge we are currently failing, but that's neither here nor there for this discussion; we need to stoke the flame of justice, not snuff it).

[and-justice-for-all]

110. It was probably too much too fast...

but they need to know what is really happening in their world and not to be shieled from it.

[Echo In Light]

112. We try to incrementally impart the idea of evil in the world to our daughter

As an unfortunate aspect of the created/chosen reality. Children learn about it from encountering social injustices at school. They may not know the term to apply, but they understand when confronted by it.

[w8liftinglady]

113. to be honest,I have shown these images to my children.

they asked me why auschwitz was so bad.I felt compelled to leave a lasting impact.It upset them.They are better men now,because they DO understand the horrificness of these events.

[NeedleCast]

114. Absolutely Should Not Be Showing This

unless an option to op-out is being given. That is a lot of heavy, heavy shit to lay on a 14 year old. I went to the Holocaust Museaum when I was in my early 30s and it messed me up pretty bad...a war veteran who has seen bodies and the pieces of bodies left over after an Afghani village eats a stack of cluster bombs. I get what those who don't have a problem with this are saying, but you don't force reality on people like that...and then make them do a project on it?!? This teacher should have his or her head examined.

[pleah]

115. Yes! It is time to start facing reality when you are in your teens.

[Edweird]

119. 14 is old enough. It happened the way it happened.

Pretending it wasn't as bad as it was enables tyrants, oppressors, and predators of all types.

[Ms. Toad]

120. You say you don't want your daughter to lose hope,

But all I have seen you doing is railing at the reality she was shown. That is not helping your daughter realize/continue to believe that she can make a difference. Do some research, or encourage your daughter to do some research into the individuals who did make a difference in the Holocaust - in small or large ways. There are many.

Even in the face of great evil, people can and do make a difference. Complaining about the manner in which your daughter was exposed to the evils of history will only feed the feelings you say you are concerned about - you've just added one more evil to the pile - the teacher who hurt your child.

From your description I suspect graphic content the 15+ presentations was under the control of the 15+ students who gave them. So long as the teacher did not dictate the content of the (probably required) visual aids, the students' selections of what visual/audio aids to use is not her fault. Showing two graphic films (similar to what I was shown at that age) is far different from the teacher selecting and presenting nothing but graphic visual/audio depictions of the Holocaust.

Yes, I think you are being over-protective - but if your perception is that the student presentations on top of the introductory material from the teacher were too intense, you might suggest that the teacher find ways to make it less intense. Perhaps she could consider giving some additional guidance regarding the content (perhaps other topics) of the presentations and/or the content of the visual/audio aids: Additional holocaust topics might include: individuals who made a positive difference, oral history of a holocaust survivor, economic and political conditions in Germany and other countries that permitted Hitler's ascent, Denmark, why the US was so reluctant to get involved. Visual aids could be limited to a single picture per presentation, could be required to be personally created (which would minimize the graphic nature and allow the students to pour some of their feelings about the matter out in a creative way). Student presentations could also be spread out over a period of a couple of weeks, rather than concentrated in a four day period.

For perspective, I have a 17 year old daughter, and I was a high school (9-12) teacher for 11 years. I have no problem at all with my daughter's graphic exposure to the reality of violence - but I still screen her from some R and some PG-13 movies which use graphic violence for entertainment. My daughter has been encouraged to believe she can make a difference AND has been exposed to the (graphic) harsh realities of the world. The two are not incompatible, and the gap between 14 and voting is very short - it is not too soon for her to understand the very real consequences of selecting a dictatorial, egotistical, cruel leader.

[knitter4democracy]

121. That assignment is usually reserved for high school.

Yes, she's honors level, but it sounds like the teacher might be stepping on some high school curricula toes. You might want to call and ask the teacher how it fits into the curriculum and tell her your daughter's reaction.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

122. Yes, my older kids covered this when they were about sixteen or seventeen

Covered it in a more "graphic" way, anyway. Sure, they knew about the horror of the concentration camps in middle school and even saw a couple of pictures, but they weren't shown any graphic footage until high school.

At that point, I took my kids to our city's Holocaust museum on a group field trip with a few other teens. Even then, the museum is structured so that not everything is thrust in one's face. One has to option of viewing certain things or not. Afterwards, I remember the kids sitting outside with their friends for what seemed like an eternity and not saying anything. I don't think I'd ever seen teens so quite for such a long period of time.

[knitter4democracy]

149. As a former high school English teacher, I know I'd be mad if she stole my assignment.

I ran into it from time to time, middle school teachers covering my material at a much too early age (I agree Shakespeare is great, but I'm not so sure his work should be covered in seventh grade). You might want to give the high school teachers a heads-up. ;)

[treestar]

123. Oh, I agree

Some teachers just like to shock, too. I remember getting too much information about JFK's assassination from a 5th grade teacher. About brains splattering out and the tracheotomy. It was disturbing to me for several weeks and didn't add to my understanding of American history. Though I was a sensitive child. Still, I might not have been the only one.

When I was your daughters age, the school district liked to show us scare films about people who used drugs. I could hardly stand them - but I don't think I would have done drugs without them. Most of the kids treated them as horror movies more or less, and really enjoyed them rather than taking any great lessons away from them.

I agree they don't need details yet, just tell them what happened and them let them ask the questions or try to look further into it. The mere fact of it is cruelty enough. Then let them decide they are ready to learn more details. Then there are those kids who are too ready too soon, if you know what I mean. There's always that looky-loo into the horror sort of thing - that part of you that can't look away from an accident, say.

[hiphopnation]

127. without reading the whole thread...

sad fact of the matter is that humans have to potential to be brutal, hearless, nasty murderous beings. think about the 14 y/os in camps and in darfur who have to actually watch the stuff go down.

i know this sounds harsh -- i don't advocate kids growing up faster than is necessary but i also don't think that trying to shield children from certain harsh realities is good for THEM. what's the best time/circumstance to introduce such unspeakable horrors to them?

that said, maybe all of this over the course of a few days is a bit much

[seabeyond]

147. when i asked myself if 8 year old should see the ugliest of iraqi war

i mean the videos of children fried, bleeding, crying, death..... i answered myself, the 8 year old in iraq is seeing this. yes, my 8 year old needs, must see this too. is almost an honoring of those that must experience it first hand. then surely we have the responsibility to at least see......

and i too am an advocate in child appropriate age and allowing child to be child

[Beausoir]

128. FWIW, my father introduced me to the Holocaust when I was in 8th grade. He took me to the library,

sat me down at a huge wooden table and began pulling books off the shelf and setting them in front of me.

Then he left and I was alone with those books, those incredibly graphic, horrible images.

By the time he picked me up 2 hours later I was badly shaken. But I believed. To my father's way of thinking, had he merely "told" me the story of the Holocaust it would not have made such a tremendous impact on me.

I had a hard time for a few days. I could not get my head around the sheer number of people who were murdered.

Tears are ok. You daughter will survive this. I don't blame you for being upset.

[truebrit71]

130. I'd have to disagree with you. When I was about that same age I witnessed a presentation about...

...Hiroshima and it had me weeping uncontrollably by the end...and had me resolving there and then to do what I could to stop ALL wars and to stop nukes especially...

In this day and age of desensitivity to violence and horror via movies and video games a good old-fashioned slide show of the death camps is a good way to snap the younger generation to attention....

Man's inhumanity to man knows no bounds, and doesn't end when the latest teen-killer slasher movie rolls the credits at the end...it is REAL, it is SAVAGE and it CONTINUES TO HAPPEN...and the quickest way to STOP it from happening here is to stay informed and to stay politically aware...

[watercolors]

132. I grew up seeing these sights on the movie screen

I was about 12, it was part of the newsreel shown at the theaters. I remember having nightmares and so scared! My parents stopped letting us go to the movies because of our reactions to it. It is hard to view for anyone much less teenagers, even today I have difficulty viewing it. I think it was way overboard, a little goes along way.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

133. I would think an honors class should be able to handle that.

There's no way of prettifying all those deaths. Hell, we're right now a bunch of 16-year-olds being bombarded with the Holocaust. It's not pretty.

:shrug:

[Eurobabe]

135. Sounds like genocide overload

Poor girl. The reality is overwhelming, but four days of being overwhelmed is too much. I remember doing a term paper on the Holocaust when I was 14, and I cried all over my typewriter, it was very upsetting.

Hope she is feeling better.

[Midlodemocrat]

136. I'm sorry. I can totally empathize.

My eldest was absolutely distraught upon learning what occurred during the Holocaust. She was about your daughter's age. One of my clients is the Holocaust Museum in DC, and we took her there along with my dad who served in WWII. Additionally, there is one here in Richmond that we visited and it helped her to understand that we must never allow this to happen again. (genocide in Africa, excluded of course, :sarcasm: )

It profoundly affected her and, in all honesty, I believe it made her more compassionate and had a little something to do with the liberal she is today.

It's hard though, because some kids, (mine included) are deeply compassionate and it is very upsetting to them.

When the Columbia exploded over TX, my son was hysterical thinking that we were under attack. As much as we can try to protect them, they are going to see and hear things we wish they didn't have to.

[jazzjunkysue]

139. An english class doesn't require this level of graphic violence

whether real or fiction. The point can be made with far less trauma and more class discussion. If this is an english class about writing, 4 days of horrific images is overdoing it.

Even if it were a social studies class, this would be too much.

Your question to the teacher and then her administrator is: What is the reading/writing lesson and how much trauma is required to accomplish the course goals?

[midlife_mo_Jo]

143. You hit the nail on the head!

[Cleita]

141. I agree. It's too much for fourteen year olds to handle.

The school however should be presenting this to the parents and community at large instead. Better yet, they should present a series of lectures on what we are doing in Iraq and Gitmo instead.

[Blue Diadem]

142. Here's a link with suggestions for teaching about the Holocaust. note #11

You may wish to share this with the teacher if he/she is not already aware of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ushmm.org/education/foreducators/guidelines/

11. Be sensitive to appropriate written and audiovisual content.


Guideline:
One of the primary concerns of educators teaching the history of the Holocaust is how to present horrific images in a sensitive and appropriate manner. Graphic material should be used judiciously and only to the extent necessary to achieve the objective of the lesson. You should remind yourself that each student and each class is different and that what seems appropriate for one may not be appropriate for all.

Students are essentially a "captive audience." When you assault them with images of horror for which they are unprepared, you violate a basic trust: the obligation of a teacher to provide a "safe" learning environment. The assumption that all students will seek to understand human behavior after being exposed to horrible images is fallacious. Some students may be so appalled by images of brutality and mass murder that they are discouraged from studying the subject further. Others may become fascinated in a more voyeuristic fashion, subordinating further critical analysis of the history to the superficial titillation of looking at images of starvation, disfigurement, and death. Though they can be powerful tools, shocking images of mass killings and barbarisms should not overwhelm a student’s awareness of the broader scope of events within Holocaust history. Try to select images and texts that do not exploit the students’ emotional vulnerability or that might be construed as disrespectful of the victims themselves.
---------------------------------------------------------------

[mcscajun]

157. That's the whole argument in a nutshell.

Thanks for sharing that.

[BeachBaby]

144. Let me get this straight.....

Our "moral-minded" country goes to great lengths to legislate enforced guidelines on the film industry, by labeling films based on its violence, language, and sexually graphic scenes. Then they enforce rules to the music industry, by requiring any album that contains "graphic or controversial material" to be labeled as such. I'm not complaining about that at all - I have two boys who are at very impressionable stages in their lives, and these guidelines have helped me in the past in knowing what I feel is appropriate for my children to watch or listen to.

I remember when I went to go see the movie "Schindler's List". I was in my 20s - and I was absolutely horrified by what I saw. Had I been educated on the subject? Of course - but I think there is a huge difference between being "informed" and being "exposed".

So while our country's leaders tell us that our children are too young to view the graphic imagery of movies such as "Fatal Attraction", "Basic Instinct", "Jackass" and "American Pie", it also wants to "educate" these same children with all-too-real, graphic, horrific images of one of the worst acts of genocide in history?

Par for the course.

[Mythsaje]

145. My 13 y.o. son asked me about Hitler last summer.

He said "I know he was bad, but WHY was he bad. What did he do?"

So I told him.

He was horrified and probably more than a little shaken, though he didn't show it.

This is the same kid that heard me talking about the voter suppression during the 2004 elections and asked "why did they do that?"

"Because they wanted to win," I told him.

"That's not fair," he answered back.

"You're right. It's not. And that's one of the things I'm fighting against."



I wasn't much older than your daughter when the truth of what happened back then was driven home to me. I saw pictures of the camps, and the mass graves, and I was sickened by what I saw. The fact that humans could be so savage came as no real surprise, but what shocked me was the idea that some people STILL deny that it happened, or deny how bad it was.

I doubt either my son or your daughter would be complacent in the face of anything like that in the future. And that might be the best thing to come out of what is obviously a very trying emotional time for the both of you.

[seabeyond]

146. hugs to your daughter, she will be fine. i like it. i like they did this. i like it is so

very harsh. today subtle does not work. today, too many kids dont know and too many adults have minimized hate. hate in the past, and hate that forgotten, we are experiencing the acceleration of today.

i have young children and i understand the need to protect. i do not protect my children from this. i am there to ground them, hold them, love them thru it, but i insist and they embrace the experience of learning all this stuff. at 8 my oldest was reading black like me not to mention a number of books dealing with ww2 and hilter and all that. they both have walked thru the last years and experiences of the iraqi's.

no.... i do not think it is too much. the desensitizing the people makes it a must.

lessons learned

and if not learned

lessons to experience again and again

[redwitch]

151. Thank you for raising a decent human being.

I am absolutely appalled at some of the responses to your post. Some Duers must have an impossible time in the real world if they are as mean there as on here.

I agree very much with the posters who express the hope that she turn her anguish to good work in trying to alleviate the suffering of others.

Four days of viewing graphic images of war and genocide might make me feel hopeless too. :hug: for you and your sweet compassionate child.

[LittleClarkie]

154. Nobody knows your daughter like you do. I wouldn't ask advice from people who can only guess

and judge a child they don't know.

Go with your gut.

[goodgd_yall]

155. I think you're right

I was at the Museum of Tolerance in L.A. and after watching a film on the worst genocides that have been documented, I was stunned and shaky, as was a friend of mine (who actually had to leave in the middle of the film it so upset her). And I've known and been exposed to the horrors of the Holocaust since I was a child (much younger than 14). But, some presentations of it just really can get to you, and your child is not as exposed to as much tragedy as a 54 y.o. who develops a tougher skin to deal with the horrors of the world. Crying is totally appropriate and it shows your daughter has empathy.

[mcscajun]

156. Honors English or not, I think that's too much for a 14 y/o to handle.

Higher intelligence does not correlate to any particular level of emotional maturity, or level of sensitivity.

I was a junior or senior in H.S. (can't quite recall which just now) when we were shown "Night and Fog", and I had to walk out of the classroom during it. I just could not handle it at that age, and I was 2-3 years older than your daughter. And this was only one film on one afternoon. I cannot begin to imagine the mindset that thinks 3-4 days of this horror without letup is appropriate for young teens. :banghead:

Was this assignment in the curriculum given out at the beginning of term, or was this a surprise to you and other parents? If the latter, I think you have good reason to address this assignment with the school.

In any case, my best wishes to your daughter; I hope when she's completed this assignment she finds other materials to balance against the impact of the horrors humans have and can inflict on one another and can put all this information in a wider perspective, so that she can feel better about the efforts she and her generation will make to improve the world.

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

159. They should be using Iraq as an example instead.

nt

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

160. They should be using Iraq as an example instead.

nt

[arthritisR_US]

166. I understand your angst at seeing your daughter in pain but

the world can be an ugly place and it has the history to prove it along with the present genocides of Dar fur, Somalia and Iraq. I'd be more worried if she hadn't cried, quite frankly.