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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:33 PM
Original message
This is not a post about Election Fraud in NH...
This post is about me and why I came to DU.

I have never believed the narrative about GWB's strange elections. Never. I don't know why but my bullshit meter just popped up the morning I woke up in 2000 and was told that GWB won in FLA.

I started to investigate on line.

I read Black Box Voting by Bev Harris, and Vote Scam by the Collier brothers. I downloaded every article I could find about the companies, the programmers, HAVA voting rules and compiled note book after note book. I gave talks to different peace and justice groups, the local Democratic committee, etc.

My older brother is a computer programmer and at my urging, he looked into the computerization of our elections. It took a while to get him to even look at the issue. Like most of us he was devastated by Bush's second term. Once he did he was as shocked as I was by the info that was coming out in a steady stream. He now works with a voting rights group in Tenn. where they vote on touch screens. Like most voting rights advocates he sees the optical scanner as a better idea.

I don't.

I am in Maine and our small town went from Hand Counted paper ballots to an Optical scan machine. There was very little discussion in the town and it slipped in as a line item in the budget. Most people know how bad the touch screen machines are and would be relieved to have the scanners because they have a paper trail.

That paper is useless if no-one counts it. Only people who have recently experienced the change understand how really different it is on an essential level. The election officials love it because it is quicker. Then again they never let any citizens know they were tired of counting.

After the Harry Hursti Hack of the memory card of a scanner I thought for sure people would finally get it that these are not adding machines. They are not "scanners" like we have at home that take a digital picture of our ballot.

They don't even record each vote. Instead they keep a running total like an odometer. As a vote gets added to either column "a" or column "b" the total number changes.

In the Hursti hack he preloaded onto the memory card, a negative number in one column and the same number, only positive, in the other column. They "zeroed" each other out during the preliminary test.

As each vote came in, one column took a certain number of votes before it even reached 0 and the other column started ahead.

At the end 8 people voted, 8 votes were the result, but who they voted for had been radically changed by the "stuffed" digital ballot box. Because it is a running total there was no way to see what happened without counting the ballots themselves.

I give this background to show that I came to DU because of my genuine interest.

I came across some excellent work being done on DU around the fraud in Ohio. I was here every day and some of the mathematicians and researchers were astonishingly good.

As an aside, little by little, more and more reports are validating the flaws and insecurities that we have been shouting about. For every "conspiracy" that hasn't been proven —brought on by the fact that every "glitch" consistently advantaged one candidate— what has been proven is those conspiracies are certainly possible. Fraud CAN be achieved. BUT, we are told, only by someone with ill intent.

We are expected to prove that it WAS done.

From Clint Curtis giving sworn testimony that he developed a program designed to flip votes, to Chuck Herrin the White hat hacker discovering two sets of books in the GEMs program which is used to tally most votes in the USA, to California's SOS de-certifying all the machines, the message is out there for anyone who WANTS to see.

I remember when the Ohio electoral votes were challenged and how my naive belief in the system was once again shattered The person challenging made it clear that it was just for show and everyone who spoke prefaced their indignant speech by saying they knew it wouldn't change the outcome. I remember being shocked by that.

Wow! That seems like nothing now.

I remember being scorned by most of my friends for my persistence around the election fraud going on— from strange counts to voting roll purges. Now with all the reports they are starting to get it.

What is it?

Paper ballots are great but only if they are randomly audited by hand. In Maine a race has to be within 1% to trigger a recount and then it is always by hand. That leads to a little bit of smug complacency. The more you know about the rabbit hole of the computerization of the USA vote, the more you know how dangerous that is.

So back to me and DU.

I remember when The Election Forum was separated out and how sad that felt. Many great things still get discussed but the passing visitor —like I was— would find it harder to know about all the discoveries and the continuation of the work these voting rights advocates are doing for US.

Now comes the primary and with it some familiar un-ease and distrust. People who have posted here about election issues for a long time, instead of being listened to with respect, are now accused of candidate bashing and hidden agendas. I learned to expect that from Republicans because up until now, one could not avoid pointing out the partisan nature of the apparent anomalies.

I often said to my friends I wish it were the Democrats cheating so I could show my concern and not be seen as partisan. I keep waiting for a new film about election fraud that does not favor the GOP so that I can show it to my Republican selectmen without them discounting me as a disgruntled Democratic operative.

My concern is real. It transcends candidates. It covers all forms of computerized counting without mandatory random hand counted audits.

The pattern that makes me suspicious in ANY race is:

1) Polls not matching the results for only select candidates— the USA calls other countries' elections fraudulent for the same reason— yet in our country it has become taboo to mention a "wrong vote count" as even a POSSIBILITY! This is what the GOP gave us by calling us sore losers. Now we are NEVER going to be called that again by them. In fact if any of our loony embarrassing left wing kooky kooks even brings up the possibility that it might be the count WE will call them sore losers.

There can come to the weenie roast now?

2) Having areas that hand count come out very differently than scanned counts— It might not even be computer fraud. It can be the wrong writing utensil given out to mark the optical scan ballot, or the machine is calibrated to not be sensitive enough to the mark, or too sensitive thus causing over-votes. Again every reason under the sun will be floated except one... the count. Can't even look, can't even check, can't talk about it— at least not in too visible a place. It is too disruptive. Disturbing.

Disturb: a: to destroy the tranquility or composure of <the noisy lawn mower disturbed their sleep> b: to throw into disorder c: alarm d: to put to inconvenience <sorry to disturb you at such a late hour>

Well I think we all need to be disturbed by the fact that it is so uncomfortable for our fellow Democrats to even entertain the idea of a mis-count. Some of us have been following this issue for a long time and our alarm has nothing to do with our candidates except that we are seeing a familiar pattern that disturbs us. It is not our job to come up with the motives but we do anyway, hoping it will help open some very closed minds. Some disturbingly closed minds.

In closing I hope no one thinks for a minute that I think Senator Clinton is involved in anything other than running an exhausting campaign. What happened that disturbs some of us has everything to do with the malevolent usurping of our right to transparent vote counts. Everything from Abramoff payee Ney pushing through HAVA to a Canadian criminal writing the source code for the voting machines disturbs us. We feel a duty to sound the alarm because if the Democratic Party doesn't lead the way, who will?

Would the GOP want to pick our candidate? Delay/Abramoff/Plame/Rove/Cheney/Bush/Cunningham...

Would the GOP pick our candidate if they could... yes.

Did they, I have no way of knowing.

Could it be done?

Yes.

I went up to the head of the Maine Democratic Party who was young enough to be my son. I told him that I thought the best way to restore people's trust would be for winners to ask for random re-counts as a sign of confidence and a desire for truth.

The noble cause of restoring our confidence in the vote would no longer be synonymous with being a sore loser. It would be a win win. If there was fraud it would start to show and we could fix it, if the count was accurate we would all feel better.

In closing, I decided to post (while on a much needed vacation) because when I logged on the first thing I saw was that all threads that question the vote count in NH must be posted in the Election forum.

Once again, people like myself —who put restoring confidence in the vote count at the top of every list— have been asked to make our selves a little less visible.

OK... Sorry if I disturbed anyone.

PS I was going to ad links but the internet keeps going down in the hotel so I am going to just post and have a martini instead.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Enjoy the martini and a hearty K&R from moi!
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. MM hm...
Cheers!:toast:
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. This is exactly the issue...
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 06:38 PM by BushDespiser12
Very well said. K & R to the OP

Edit: Ooops, wrong place. Must have been the martini talk got me all excited... :toast:
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Salut!
Love the tini-talk! :toast:
Straight up with olives diserves its own smiley! Anyone?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. time for a drink! We work again tomorrow. :)
:toast:
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Da.
Budem zdorovy. ("Let's stay healthy") :toast:
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Prost!
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. how i wish the states would just BAN electric voting and vote counting n/t
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Me too...no brainer! n/t
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. Dear Henry and Dear 'Liza vote conumdrum...
The machines are stealing the votes Dear 'Liza, Dear 'Liza

Well fix the process Dear Henry, Dear Henry

How do I fix it Dear 'Liza, Dear 'Liza?

Change the machines Dear Henry, Dear Henry

How shall I change the machines Dear 'Liza, Dear 'Liza?

Tell the legislators to change them, Dear Henry, Dear Henry

But the legislators won't listen Dear 'Liza, Dear 'Liza

Vote them out of office Dear Henry, Dear Henry

On what shall I vote with Dear 'Liza, Dear 'Liza

With the machines, Dear Henry, Dear Henry

But the MACHINES are stealing the votes Dear 'Liza, Dear Liza


-- how do you changed a rigged system if it's being controlled by the very people who rigged them in the first place?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for taking the time to write this. I've also been involved in reform issues
since 2000 and applaud your persistence and common sense approach to this. The results and questions have nothing to do with the candidate. And truly, not even the Party. Its about counting the votes and counting them correctly. If we don't, we mustn't complain next November if the race is "close". I personally cannot believe we haven't come further, closer, to true reform. Thanks again, and enjoy your vacation ! :hi:
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. It is disheatening how slow the reform is...
and all the sand planted heads!:P
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. Mirerra, you rock!
FAntastic post!!! Everyone needs to read this! Thanks.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. One more rec and maybe...
they will! Feels good to get it off my chest. Had at least 4 posts get lost due to buggy canadian connection.

Thanks for the kind words!!!!

:)
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Let me say one thing
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 05:49 PM by Marrah_G
MANY of the people who have worked hard on election form like you were thrown under the bus by a bunch of people who hated Hillary so much that they had to turn DU into a cesspool of ranting hysteria. They would have never made a peep if their candidate had won. I think alot of people here realize that.

It is sad to see your very good message be used by people to spew more hatred at members of our own party. It was uncalled for and it hurt DU.

I agree with what you said, there needs to be changes and accountability. There needs to be random auditing and paper trails. But that will not be accomplished and the powers that be will never take it seriously if election fraud is perceived to be something people scream about every time they lose. It's a serious issue that shouldn't be used as a weapon.

Thank you for the work you do. I really mean that. I remember a couple folks who worked their asses off from the Kerry chatroom in 2004 as we watched in shock as the machines flipped the votes to almost the exact opposite of the exit polls. They were amazing.

You have my total respect.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I know what you mean. Crying fraud can not be an automatic response!
That is why the winner should re-count. Save us the trouble. Thank you for your nice reply. We should be grateful we have the candidates we do! Gawd imagine the poor Republicans...no don't.:evilgrin:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
31. "by a bunch of people who hated Hillary". You know, I was reading and scanning DU
and found very, very few DU'ers coming from that angle.

I did find "a bunch" of DU'ers ridiculing anyone who questioned the process and attributing it to hating Hillary.

Is it all a matter of perception?

Possible, but I think all the threads and responses are archived. And I stand by my assertion.

And Exit Polling methods have changed. Unless I am mistaken, they are indeed now weighted to reflect machine totals (which therefore make them next to meaningless).

I will be happy to be informed differently on the Exit Poll issue. But to state categorically that Exit Polls show nothing amiss, when they've been adjusted to reflect electronic machine totals that have unaudited paper ballots is circular reasoning.
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. You say she has your total respect, yet it seems like you didn't really read it.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good to see people are paying attention to the details....
:hi:
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Its ALL in the details...
:hi: Back atcha!
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks for your post.
How can this not be THE most talked about issue before all else? Without being able to trust the system and KNOW beyond any doubt that our votes count, and count as we intended them to, what good is a government that calls itself a Democracy? Without complete election reform we may as well consider it all a sham because anything can happen, and probably will. It must be expected that there are those who will always try to control the governing of the richest and most influential nation on Earth!
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Elections are power...period.
We would never trust anything else in this way. This is all a result of the GOP hypnosis. We are like a battered spouse... afraid to be true to our instincts. Bending our own perceptions to be acceptable and maybe safe. Wrong way to go. If things are fishy re-count. Period. In NH especially we are talking very small numbers.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Our voting security MUST be absolutely mandatory!
And this should be a front burner issue with our Congress. We voted them in to do this work for us, didn't we? Now I question all the voting until this issue is completely resolved!
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. exactly! It is like plugging the hole in the dike...
and ignoring the shooter.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. I'm with you. How Democrats let this one keep slip-sliding away can only mean
they never took the time to understand the details or they don't believe it. How RFKJr can write such detailed and informative articles on the subject and still be ignored by Democrats is unreal to me. I have given up supporting any candidate until it is fixed - I mean repaired. Why bother?

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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. k&r
Nicely said.

:patriot:

-Laelth
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
24. i just read through this again--slower--and i really love this.
thank you so much for writing this.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
Thank you for taking the time to write this, and happy vacation! :-)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
27. Magnificent
:toast:

:hug:
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Coming from you that is high praise! So I re-read my post and found 5 typos.
Damn! It could have been magnificent... :toast:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Welcome to the club.
:hie:
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
28. K&R
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
30. My British husband does NOT understand about voting machines.
He just keeps saying, "But why don't they just have a bit of paper and a pen?" Hard to explain why not, truthfully. :shrug:
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Does your husband
understand the forces in our corrupted Democracy that work against the concept of free and fair elections?
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
33. That was so well said!!
This is the best part:

Now comes the primary and with it some familiar un-ease and distrust. People who have posted here about election issues for a long time, instead of being listened to with respect, are now accused of candidate bashing and hidden agendas. I learned to expect that from Republicans because up until now, one could not avoid pointing out the partisan nature of the apparent anomalies.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
35. Great post!
I agree 100%!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
37. Excellent Points
about the only thing I don't agree with you is the suggestion that winners should call for recounts. That's just totally unrealistic.

I also don't think that losers should bear the burden of ensuring honest elections. Too much to ask after the fact and "sore loser" stigma.
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