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Uh Oh... US and IRAN Skirmish on Strait of Hormuz

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:50 PM
Original message
Uh Oh... US and IRAN Skirmish on Strait of Hormuz
Gulf of Tonkin anyone? The NY Times is reporting that the U.S. military and Iranian military have engaged off of the Strait of Hormuz. The NY Times notes that this report and a CNN report are from anonymous sources. Israel is also reporting a rocket used in attack last week as coming from Iran. All this occurring as President Bush makes an unusual visit to the Middle East.

--Kevin Zeese, Voters For Peace


http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/us-military-reports-skirmish-with-iran/?hp

U.S. Military Reports Skirmish With Iran

By Mike Nizza

Tags: foreign affairs, iran, media, military, united states

Iran and the United States have been playing chicken for some time now, but reports this morning say that the game turned unusually direct on Sunday. From NBC News:

Iranian Revolutionary Guard gunboats harassed three U.S. Navy warships in the Strait of Hormuz Sunday, in what the U.S. military considers a “significant provocative act.”

Military officials told NBC News that two U.S. Navy destroyers and one frigate were heading into the Persian Gulf through the international waters of the Strait of Hormuz when five armed “fast boats” of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard approached a high speed, darting in and out of the formation.

Later, the White House amplified the concern and issued a warning as well. “We urge the Iranians to refrain from such provocative actions that could lead to a dangerous incident in the future,” said spokesman Gordon Johndroe, according to Reuters.

The officials told NBC that the incident ended without any shots being fired when the Iranian boats left the area. Iran was “testing our defenses,” they concluded. Here’s more details from an official speaking to The Associated Press:

‘’There were no injuries but there very well could have been,'’ he said, adding that the Iranian boats turned away ‘’literally at the very moment that U.S. forces were preparing to open fire'’ in self defense.

He said he didn’t have the precise transcript of communications that passed between the two forces, but the Iranians radioed something to the effect that ‘’we’re coming at you and you’ll explode in a couple minutes.'’

An official statement from the Navy was expected soon, Bloomberg News said.

While The New York Times’s reporters seek to confirm the news with their own sources — the ones in this and CNN’s version are anonymous — the report emerged at a significant time.

President Bush is arriving in the region on Tuesday, and The Washington Post reported today that he plans to rally support against Iran “even as a recent U.S. intelligence report playing down Tehran’s nuclear ambitions has left Israeli and Arab leaders rethinking their own approach toward Iran and questioning Washington’s resolve.”

And the U.S. wasn’t the only country to complain of Iran’s aggression in the region today. Israeli intelligence officials claim that it has traced a rocket used in an attack last week to Iran, Isabel Kershner reported in The New York Times. “It was the first such rocket to land in Israel,” she wrote. “And Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Israel would intensify its response to the firing of such longer-range rockets.”

Also, the location of the skirmish roiled oil markets: Along with the Strait of Malacca between the Indian and Pacific Oceans, the Strait of Hormuz is considered one of the top two most strategic chokepoints for delivering oil around the world.

Update, 11:33 a.m. Doubts over the creditibility of the threat flowed almost as quickly as the news itself. Blake Hounshell of Foreign Policy Magazine says that “it’s a safe bet that hardliners in the Guard are seeking to create an incident on the eve of U.S. President George W. Bush’s visit to the region.” ***

Expect more updates on this potentially significant story later in the day.
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. yesterday's news, and probably just noise for distraction from real news
do you perceive an actual threat from the story?
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. No one ever searches anymore before posting.... n/t
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. I explicitly posted all the other threads (see post #12). This was an email sent to Votes for Peace
I guess the Hillaryites (or whomever) are uninterested in the "threat"
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. I'm no Hillaryite
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 05:35 PM by crikkett
I'm for Kucinich so I obviously (in this case empty) threats about sinking ships don't bother me.
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Or an Actual Skirmish, were shots fired ? No
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Wow, you guys certainly are ADD
This did indeed come out yesterday.

The threat, in case you haven't noticed, is coming from our end
since we declared war on Iran.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. We declared war on Iran? I don't remember hearing about that. n/t
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Kyl-Lieberman amendment, according to respected commentators is sufficient provocation.
If you don't believe me, consider that some DLC types are writing in to the Post to criticize them for failing to point out that we were in a state of war with Iraq throughout the Clinton administration due to the "cease-fire" which amounted to a continual declaration of war under international law, never rescended by Clinton (whom these supporters of Clinton claim supported continued further action) and therefore Bush needed no justification to go back into Iraq at any time.

Similarly, under international law, calling the enemy military a terrorist entity under the post-911 War on Terror is sufficient provocvation for a declaration of war, cold or hot.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Same Script Different War
These fuckwittages just will not give it up. I hate these people.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. I've been told it is class A misinformation.
I wouldn't be surprised if Cheney has some kind of plan to start a war with Iran before he leaves. Back into the ultra rich world so he can benefit, as a private citizen, from his new war.

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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm really, really, really skeptical. The Gulf of Tonkin has been
shown to be bullshit, a manufactured "threat" so that Congress would be more likely to give Johnson his desired war. Daniel Ellsberg gives a great account of that in his memoirs (he was directly involved that day).

This would be the perfect time for them to try to manufacture something, particularly with the election. And they've been itching to get at Iran however they could in order to distract from the fiasco in Iraq and to keep people in their usual state of fear. It's happened many, many times throughout history and will continue to happen if we continue to allow it.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. repeated over and over in the last two hundred years.
Just thought I'd finish the sentence in the title of your post. :hi:
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Just a mater of time before the shit hits the fan big time between either...
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 03:56 PM by LakeSamish706
Iran and the US or Israel and Iran IMO... Its certainly not going to be anything good that will come out of all of this!
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh bull. Just more propaganda
Bush is on his way to the ME to pump up the bombing of Iran plan and so this story mysteriously starts appearing as a BIG THREAT.

Yeah right.

Iran said nothing out of the ordinary has happened.

Someone is blowing smoke.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. here you go...
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Does bush ever wonder if cheney would make a martyr of him for profit?
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 03:57 PM by havocmom
Interesting that they are determined to toss some explosives around without much proof of anything to the people of the world

Did ya see the post in LBN about INTEL report on Vietnam. Yep, somebody officially came out and said Tonkin was a hoax. And it had to come via a French news source. My gut says some honest souls in INTEL are trying to give a heads up on hoaxes.

Lots of missing money in Iraq could hire posers to pick on US ships then blame Iran. Chalabi's gang is probably looking for gigs.
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INDIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. The two sides certainly did not engage each other. This post is worthless. n/t
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. This post is verbatim from the MSM and Voters for Peace n/t
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INDIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Voters for Peace is not a credible source, the author of the quote sounds confused...
As to what "engage" means. And according to your own article you posted, "The officials told NBC that the incident ended without any shots being fired " AKA, THERE WAS NO ENGAGEMENT. Engage means to open fire or attack. The two sides basically ran circles around each other, which makes it an incident. Neither side engaged the other. That quote is just ignorant crap that helps spread lies, propaganda, and disinformation around the internet.

But just for the record, Cheney would WUV for you to think that one side engaged the other. Just like he would WUV you to believe that Iraq was involved in 9/11.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Peace activists are not credible? What about the fact that the entire text of the OP is from NYT?
I guess the New York Times is not a credible source either.
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INDIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. As a news source? Absolutely not. Do you get your news from Cindy Sheehan? Meeeneither.
And did the NY Times article say the word "engage" or "engagement"?, that's what I have an issue with. There was no engagement. Your thread made (falsely) made it appear like there was a new incident in which the two sides engaged each other, or that the original reports were false.

This is a new thread on a day old event without any new information.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. The entirety of the e-mail is a NYT article. Do you trust peaceniks? Obviously not
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 03:39 AM by Leopolds Ghost
"Day old information with no new news"... sigh. Such short attention spans.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Not to mention that the author, a NYT reporter, links to 5 different MSM sources.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. It Is Significant Because the NYT is CALLING it a "Skirmish"
That means the Iran war is coming very soon.

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. Some more links (Compilation threads)
CNN BREAKING: 5 Iranian Revolutionary Guard boats harassed, provoked 3 U.S. Navy warships

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2617152

Gulf of Tonkin, Meet Straits of Hormuz

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2618373

US/Iran Strait of Hormuz Encounter... Threat or not?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2619001

Independent UK: US almost opened fire on Iranian boats, Pentagon says

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2624497

Yesterday's Strait of Hormuz "Incident"... who believes the Pentagon?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2624021

Iranians Tell U.S. Navy: "I Am Coming At You"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2622679

How's Kyl/Lieberman working out?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2617309

Here is a hint to how bu$h is going to get his war with Iran...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2621441

CNN: US naval ships were in the Arabian Sea searching for a missing sailor

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2618940

Iran plays down Gulf incident with U.S. - Associated Press

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2619664

Brief on the Iranian Navy (COULD take the Confederate Air Force)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2619696
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
24. Speeding, playing loud music and shouting threats. Ample reason to nuke the Bronx.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Hey, they did it to New Orleans.
There are real "thugs" out there and they can only be stopped
thru violence, right?

"Exterminate all the brutes." -- Heart of Darkness
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