Can someone please explain Huckabee to me?

[Phillycat]

In the second precinct reporting in New Hampshire, Huckabee again had a strong showing. I know it's not intensely indicative, but his Iowa showing really threw me too. They can't possibly be serious, can they? I read the Rolling Stone article about Huckabee months ago and it seemed fairly clear that he's an insane person. Like, actually not sane, mentally. Now we know Bush is a moron and a petty little tyrant, but I've never thought he was mentally unbalanced. MORALLY, ETHICALLY unbalanced, but not actually insane. He knows exactly what he's doing. Huckabee, though...I can't believe he's actually a serious candidate. He's a religious zealot lunatic. He made a minor child who was raped by her stepfather give birth to the baby, rather than waive the notification laws. And he released a rapist from prison who had "found religion" while an inmate - that rapist went on to kill another woman.

Also, it appears from all accounts that he's totally corrupt. He's used government funds for his own personal purchases and everything. He's not even very circumspect about it.

How is this guy still in contention at all? I truly don't understand.

[OneGrassRoot]

1. For those who are strictly going on watching him in the debates...

I honestly think he comes across very well. He is very well spoken. THAT is what is scary - that people might not investigate any further and take him at "face" value.

What lies beneath is very frightening indeed.

[ananda]

8. Huck has great entertainment value.

That's why I want him to win the Reep nomination.

That way I could watch him make phone calls to God
and conduct religious revival meetings on the stumps.

[NewJeffCT]

25. I agree on that

The media liked to claim that Bush was a regular guy you'd like to have a beer with, even though he was one of the most elitist candidates in recent memory...

However, Huckabee comes across as a regular guy, too, and is smoother and more well-spoken than Bush.

Plus, you also have to realize that the media will likely not call out Huckabee on all of his ethics issues and the Wayne DuMond issue unless Democrats really keep beating him up on it consistently.

[timtom]

33. In a similar manner

I have always found Jeb Bush to be well-spoken, and I sometimes find myself liking that smarmy sob in spite of myself!

Charisma is a very dangerous quality in the hands of evil.

[demnan]

2. You must live in the north

or some intelligent upscale place. It's easy to understand for me as I live in the land of Gilmore and George Allen. I live in a place where people are insane.

53% in this country don't believe in evolution. And they don't live where you live. And they have fish on their cars.

[NoBorders]

4. There you go. n/t

[Phillycat]

6. Lord.

Yes, I live in Philadelphia. I guess you're right. I lived in Fredericksburg, Virginia for a couple of years and I felt like a space alien.

It's scary times we live in. My husband and I are moving to France in September (I'll still be voting absentee!).


Best to you down there. (((hug)))

[demnan]

17. Good move!

You'll have far better health care over there and the people should be as intelligent as Philly.

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. I hear ya. nt

[FormerDittoHead]

47. I wish I could K&R your reply...

I live right outside of Philly, but we have friends in Texas. But this story concerns my late mother who used to live in Arlington and her best friend's husband worked for the CIA.... (her friend's name was Kay)

I only WISH people could see what the honest to goodness real America is out there. It ain't San Francisco out there...

This story is how liberals don't realize the "other" America that's out there...

For example, when my mom was in the hospital, my doctor brother, who lived in Madison, Wisconsin since college, laughed at me when I told him not to give her friend Kay any more suggestions over the phone that mom may get some relief from smoking pot...

He laughed at me, as if all of those military characters on TV were some kind of joke, like those people don't seriously exist in real life.

And he and his wife laughed at "Jesus Camp" thinking that these are tiny, tiny pockets of people who don't really exist, leave church and go home to read "The Nation"...

In a way, I think it's funny that those who otherwise pride themselves of being open minded and tolerant of others and of other cultures, seem to have a problem realizing what the REALITY is in our own country and what, as a party, we're REALLY dealing with for the long term...

[Phillycat]

49. Good post.

That was my overwhelming feeling in 2004. I was just SHOCKED and felt so BETRAYED. I didn't believe that people, in the end, would vote directly against their own economic and global interests in order to hate on gays and abortion - I really didn't believe that that kind of zealotry could win an election. That was the first time I started to get an inkling that there may be more of "them" out there than I thought...it's still hard to get an accurate picture here in the Northeast though. You remember 2004 in Philly - it was like a Kerry rally.

[October]

52. Hilarious reply.

I live in the north, and I, too, have been baffled by Huckabee's numbers.

[Crazy Dave]

3. Desperation candidate

No one in the republican party was ever excited about their choices for candidates and along comes Huckabee and the media whoops him up as their saviour and got them all excited. In order to keep their ratings up they need people to watch the republican debates too.

[tekisui]

5. Do you have a link to a NH results site?

[Phillycat]

9. Oh it was in the LBN forum in the thread about the two little NH

towns that vote at midnight...

[NightWatcher]

7. you mean Chuckabee?

It's the best of Walker Texas Ranger mixed with (formerly) chubby, good ole country preacher.

It's like Matlock or Andy Griffith on steroids.

[WilliamPitt]

10. OK

(snip)

1. No national GOP nominee can win if the base abandones him/her;

CONVERSELY...

2. If the GOP nominee has the base vote locked up, i.e. 25% of "likely voters" will vote GOP, it means that GOP nominee is halfway to victory before getting out of bed on Election day. Dems need 51% to win; if the GOP nominee has the base's support, he/she only needs 26% to win.

3. The GOP base never really went for Thompson, and have been truly sickened by the idea of having to vote for a baby-killer-gun-grabber like Giuliani or an evil anti-Christian cultist like Romney (and yes, that's how the GOP base describes Mormons). The base has mostly bailed on both Rudy and the Plastic-Fantastic phenomenon that is Mitt's eerily fake-looking head already...

...but they also have to beat HILLARY *thunder, lightning, brimstone*...whom they are convinced (thanks to the predictions of Rush, Savage and the faint radio signals picked up in their fillings) is a dead-bang mortal lock to be the Dem nominee...and thus, we have fundy hearts in conflict...fetus uber alles?...or beat Hillary?...fetus...Hillary...fetus...blarg...bzzt...

And then...Huckabee. Of course. When in doubt, choose the guy who doesn't believe in stuff like science and dinosaurs. For the GOP base, going for Huck was a no-brainer...yeah, and on many levels besides.

Huck has 25% nationally. That's Bush's crew. If Mitt and Rudy can't woo some or all of that 25% back into their camp before the 2/5 Primary-o-Doom, they're both finished. Rudy looks to be mostly done anyway, but Mitt still had a shot at bringing enough of the base back his way, still had a shot at the prize...especially if he hints (read: lies) that Huck will his pick for VP.

Not anymore. The base is about to be 100% done with Mitt, if my tea leaves are working properly.

P.S. Huckabee is my personal hero. I see no way he can win the nomination, but he could stick it out long enough to shatter Rudy and Butter-Head's campaigns completely...and that's A-OK with me, seeing as how Rudy actually listens to Podhoretz and Romney quite brazenly explained his belief that we have no rights or privacy or freedoms, and should expect to have none if he wins (per a recent Glen Greenwald blog post).

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/WilliamPitt/378

[Phillycat]

14. God.

I forget about the people who don't believe in the dinosaurs. :cry:

Thanks, that helps.

[qanda]

11. This morning on my prayer line...

The women were all excited about Obama winning (these are all black women). However, one of them said that if Huckabee wins then she would have a difficult decision choosing between Obama and Huckabee. The other women were saying that Huckabee sounds interesting and may be their second choice. I told them there was no way in the world I would ever vote for Huckabee and since things started getting a little too political I didn't get a chance to tell them all the reasons why. I don't understand their thinking and I'm hoping that Huckabee doesn't win the nomination because Americans aren't known for their ability to see through crazy.

[Phillycat]

15. "Americans aren't known for their ability to see through crazy"

Ain't that the freakin truth!

[MethuenProgressive]

12. He's the Republican Obama.

No one can explain it.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

13. Social conservatives like him. Limbaugh and the corporatists don't.

Eventually they will eat each other, and we'll get ourselves a Democratic president.

[Mike Daniels]

40. Limbaugh has been denouncing Huckabee non-stop

Once Coulter jumps on the band wagon Huckabee is toast.

[tanyev]

16. Nostalgia.

[Phillycat]

19. I don't know whether to laugh or cry...

:rofl: :cry:

[melody]

18. Generations of intermarriage n/t

[CanonRay]

20. More proof that a large chunk of the Republican Pary has lost their minds.

[CoffeeCat]

21. I'm in Iowa....

...and what I saw happen with Huckabee's win is a product of two things: Evangelicals vote in very
high numbers. They were all for Huckabee. He campaigned at many churches, very early in the
campaign and secured their support then. Also, the slate of Republican candidates is pretty pathetic.
People who might have supported another Republican (besides Huckabee)--if there was a quality Republican
candidate--didn't come out to vote for a Republican candidate. In fact, there were many Republicans
who re-registered as Dems and voted for Obama. Guliani did not campaign in Iowa. That may have
been a factor as well.

Huckabee is extremely likable. He comes off as very calm, reasonable and articulate. People really
like him. When questioned about his religion, Huckabee also mentions that he was a governor. He
also talks a great deal about his "Fair Tax" plan. So, he gets it both ways. He attracts Evangelicals,
and he's able to snag some other Republicans with his economic ideas.

Huckabee absolutely sets off sirens in my head. I get a really creepy feeling. Your information about him
refusing to "waive the notification laws" for the girl who was raped by her stepfather, pretty much validates
what my intuition was telling me.

[Phillycat]

24. But what about Romney?

I guess I don't understand the minds of religious conservatives enough...evangelicals don't like Mormons, apparently? It's weird, because I know some Mormons and they are some of the most socially conservative people on earth. They are definitely anti-abortion, anti-gay, all that stuff. And Romney seems more...sane than Huckabee to me. I mean, we're choosing between the lesser of two complete assholes, for sure, but still.

If you get a chance, read the Rolling Stone article about Huckabee - they've had consistently good coverage of the campaign so far. Excellent writing, and I learned a lot. A lot of scary stuff, as it turned out. :scared:

[slackmaster]

29. My mom grew up in Page County, IA and predicted the outcome 24 hours in advance

Huckabee's strong win was no surprise to her at all.

[stray cat]

22. He is the closest thing the repubs have to a populist

or a Bill Clinton in terms of likeability

[AB_Positive]

23. Early results in NH != fact...

I wouldn't worry too much, those two towns are very very very small indeed. From around here in NH, there's definitly a McCain/Romney thing going on, with a little Rudy thrown in for the Repugs.

Edwards seems strong here on the seacoast, but no idea how he'll do with the rest of the state. The more conservative dems and independants will probably go Obama. Ehh, we'll see tomorrow!

-AB+

[Phillycat]

26. I like Edwards.

I've said all along that a lot of Dems will quietly vote for Edwards, and I hope I'm right. Obama would be fine with me too. I don't care for Hillary, but I will vote for whomever the nominee is in the general. In the primary, I'm Edwards all the way. Of course, I'm in PA, so my vote doesn't count anyway... :eyes:

[slackmaster]

27. Not understanding Huckabee = not understanding evangelicals

Educate yourself about evangelicals, and Huckabee makes perfect sense.

[Phillycat]

31. I'm sure you're quite right.

But what about Romney, as I asked above? Why do evangelicals not like Mormons? They are some of the most socially conservative people on earth. Anti-choice, anti-gay, the whole shebang.

[slackmaster]

36. Romney has flip-flopped on their #1 issue

Which is, of course, abortion.

Huckabee has been 100% consisten, plus his position is MORE RADICAL than Romney's: Huckabee supports a "right to life" amendment to the Constitution. Romney would just throw us back into the barbaric, schizophrenic period that existed before Roe v Wade.

Evangelicals don't dislike Mormons, they are deeply are suspicious of Mormons becasue they are secretive and have their own set of rituals and dogma. Huckabee is a Baptist minister. He's their kind.

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. It's not about what they believe - it's about what they believe!

To fundy evangelicals, Mormonism is a cult, it is anti-christian, it is nothing less than heretical. A Mormon is no better than an atheist or Scientologist, because their beliefs do not stop at the end of Revelations - they have this whole other book that subverts the Word of God. Therefore, even if they hold all the same social positions, they are not to be trusted.

You get get along well with Jews, since the old testament came from the Jews, and they have their place in the end times. You can even get along with Catholics, even if they're idol worshippers, because they believe in the Word, and can be redeemed from their false teachings. But Mormons are a secretive cult, and you never really know what they're up to - and who wants to take a chance on accidentally voting for the Anti-Christ?

[hisownpetard]

28. He's insane, corrupt and a religious lunatic -the perfect Republican paradigm!

What more could they ask for?

[slackmaster]

30. No, evangelicals are only one of three major factions in the GOP

The others being fiscal conservatives and libertarians, both of whom do not like Huckabee for obvious reasons.

Evangelicals are the squeakiest wheels right now. That is bound to change.

[Gold Metal Flake]

32. Two words: disturbingly Nixonian.

[earth mom]

34. FYI-* is a sociopath. So Huckabee's the rethuglicans kinda guy.

:puke:

[The Stranger]

35. He is a devious little devil. Dominionist brass knuckles within a Jesus velvet glove.

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. Because even with all that, he's the best of the lot? nt

[EFerrari]

39. One WJ caller described him as "the Abraham Lincoln of 2008"

this morning. :crazy:

[Phillycat]

41. OH MY BUSINESS.

:wtf:

[spanone]

42. the crazy race...who'd more insane, huckabee or giuliani???

[Phillycat]

46. Man throw Zell Miller and Frist in there and ya got yerself a crazy buffet!

:crazy:

[CK_John]

44. He is just your average friendly neighbor who borrows stuff and never brings it back. n/t

[Phillycat]

45. Government property, civil rights, integrity, sanity...

Got it.

[Zynx]

48. If you live where I do, you would understand.

There is a big chunk of the Republican electorate that cares more that their candidate is moral than anything else. Huckabee sticks it in the eye of elite secularists, which is what they see guys like Romney as. He has this simple, down-home appeal that really works with conservative voters with incomes between $30,000 and $70,000. There are a lot of people that believe strongly that Christ is the center of their lives. They see him as one of them and that connection cannot be dismissed out of hand.

[CorpGovActivist]

50. There Was Thoughtful Discussion...

... in this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2343782&mesg_id=2343782">thread.

If you're in Red Sox Nation, it may require a translator and a guide. I lived in Boston Metro for 8 years, and can give it my best shot.

- Dave

[Phillycat]

51. Thanks for the link.

Yeah, I live in Philly, and I've been getting an education on this thread as to how fundies actually THINK. It's hard to fathom! :crazy:

[CorpGovActivist]

53. You're Welcome!

I grew up in a Pentecostal church, and went to school/lived in Boston for 8 years.

Please feel free to PM with any questions about evangelical thinking.

; )

- Dave

[blindpig]

54. Religion is only one facet of Huck's appeal

The like-ability factor is surely there, but it seems that the MSM and liberals are completely missing (or ignoring) his appeal as a populist. Working class people are hungry for someone to stand up for them. Huck and Edwards are saying what many want to hear.

Bread and butter win elections.

[kentuck]

55. He learned his speaking skills by being a preacher...

However, he touches a nerve with all those Republicans that were ready to give up on their Party. He tells them that they are really good people - compassionate people. He makes them feel better after the last 7 years. On top of that, he says that he has Jesus on his side. His supporters don't really care if he is conservative or liberal, they are relieved that he is a human.

[bunkerbuster1]

56. A lot of people, if not full-fledged Creationists, tolerate such thinking

I know the polling says that a slight majority of Americans believe in creationism vs. evolution, but I think that it's not quite as backward here as that.

However, despite the fact that to a lot of us it seems just batshit insane to take the Bible literally like that, I think it isn't insane to most.

Thus, a guy who's a Baptist preacher can seem not-crazy.

That's how he's got this far. I don't know that he'll get a lot farther. But who knows.

Beyond that, like William Pitt says.